Must have missed it the 30 times I watch it. -Waits for Guard's witty and sarcastic essay reply-
I don't need to be sarcastic. I'm through being sarcastic about such obvious aspects of these films. Storm, there's a bit more of a gray area. Cyclops, there is not. I'm just going to state what's onscreen, and let what David Hayter, Michael Doughtery, Dan Harris and Bryan Singer put out there prove my point.
-Who does Xavier send out on important missions? Cyclops and Storm. They are clearly leadership figures. The first time we see Cyclops, he is in what could be termed a very tense situation. Does he panic? Does he rush himself? Hell no. He is cool as a cucumber, and there's not a wasted movement in his actions. Without a word, he steps in front of Storm (this is significant). He takes care of rescuing Rogue and Logan from the camper quickly and efficiently, and also precisely. This is one of the hallmarks of a leader, the ability to be cool in a crisis, to think strategically and efficiently. It is also one of Cyclops' comic book trademarks.
-When Cyclops is introduced to Logan, he politely extends his hand. When Logan doesn't take it, he remains polite, and also humble when Xavier talks about how he saved Logan's life. Politeness is a leadership quality, as pretty much any employer will tell you. When Logan "threatens him" physically, Cyclops doesn't appear the least bit rattled, or intimidated. Another leadership quality.
-Xavier talks about how Cyclops was one of his first students, and how he now helps students at the X-Mansion. Mentoring is a leadership quality. We see Cyclops and Jean practicing, refining their powers. Clearly they want to become more skilled, and keep sharp. This is another leadership quality.
-In the train station, Cyclops is waiting for Storm, and hears breaking glass. The second he does, he turns. He rushes to her aide, taking care not to attract too much attention to himself. This fast reaction? You guessed it. A leadership quality.
-It is Cyclops who figures out why Magneto wants Rogue. Wolverine voices the beginnings of Cyclops' complete thought, but it's clearly Cyclops who comes up with the idea. Thinking outside the box: leadership quality.
-When Xavier is in a coma, what does Cyclops ay to him? "If anything happens, I'll take care of them". Cyclops expresses obvious concern for his mentor and expresses a desire to care for the X-Men and the students of the school. This desire to protect and guide others is also a hallmark of a leader.
-Cyclops attempts to keep Wolverine from going along with the X-Men, and for good reason. Wolverine, to that point, has been reckless and voilatile. A leader has to be on the lookout for these kinds of situations.
-Cyclops plans and explains the strategy for the X-Men's approach to Liberty Island. "We can insert here at the George Washington Bridge. Come around the bank, just off of Manhattan, we land on the far side of Liberty Island...here." He has planned the mission. He is the leader. Cyclops also pilots the jet. Clearly in charge. During the flight, he says "Storm, some cover, please" A strategic order, and one that makes good sense in order to camoflauge their approach. One imagines that the ability to fly a supersonic jet well might be considered a leadership skill.
-On Liberty Island, who leads them up over the wall? Cyclops. Who is the one to spot that the torch houses the machine? Cyclops. Who leads them forward into the statue? Cyclops. Cyclops is also leading when they are inside the statue.-
-When the door closes on the X-Men, Cyclops doesn't take long to decide to blow it open. "All right back up, back up". Another strategic order.
-Cyclops comes across another situation that requires quick thinking when he has to break Jean out of that slime via his visor. He tries to get it off without resorting to using his visor, first. Whhen he has to do so, he stays calm and collected, and is precise with his power usage. As Storm confronts Toad, Cyclops seems to be providing Jean with some kind of medical care.
-Knowing Mystique was in there, Cyclops demands Wolverine prove that he's the real Wolverine. Taking no chances.
-Ascending the stairs of Liberty, it is again Cyclops who takes the lead.
-With his visor gone and Wolverine incapacitated, Cyclops realizes their chances to stop Magneto are now limited. He acts quickly. "Storm. Fry him." Almost no hesitation. A direct order. Was it the right decision? Who knows. Had Storm fried Magneto, while the X-Men might have died or suffered injury, Magneto would not have been able to power the machine, and the day would have been saved, even if the X-Men died. Regardless, Cyclops is again giving orders here.
-After being freed, Cyclops refuses Wolverine's ideas about just shooting the machine because it could kill Rogue. He seeks an alternative plan, readily offering himself. "Storm, can you get me up there?" When Wolverine offers to go and let Cyclops hang back for one last shot, Cyclops takes a grsnd total of about a second and a half to make the call. "All right, do it." An order. He also tells Jean to use her own power to try to steady Wolverine on his way up.
-Despite Jean's urging to wait, It is Cyclops who makes the call on his own to take out Magneto via optic blast. "I have a shot. I'm taking him." The ability to make your own split second decisions in a crisis is another hallmark of leadership.
-That's in X-MEN. In X2, who does Xavier trust to take him to Magneto? Cyclops. Cyclops is clearly his number one guy.
-At the end of X2, "No! We're not leaving! Lower the ramp!" More orders. This is coming from a man accustomed to giving them.
Now, they may not have portrayed him as the particular KIND of leader you wanted to see. But to say he was not clearly established as a leader with leadership qualities is absurd. So, once again, WHY do you think he hasn't been shown as a leader? Specific examples, please. Not "Because that's how I feel". WHY do you feel that way?
Everytime I watch X-Men 1, I liked the way they protrayed Cyclops in it. Without exactly saying it or showing it, you get the feel he's the leader. It's just a natural thing protrayed on film. Wolverine's obviously one of the main characters, but you still get the sense Cyclops is the man in charge. Even in the scenes he's in in X2, when Jean's helping Cyke and he asks who Nightcrawler is, you get that demanding and leadership feel off of him like "Out of the way, I'm in charge here" If Cyke does come back at the final battle of X3, I'm betting money we'll get that same thing again.
Exactly. One of the main reasons I can't wait for X3.
I guess a better way I should have worded it was "emotional support". Of course we see her fighting the good fight, because we know she's an X-Man, and that's what X-Men do. All of these things also have large scale consequences involved if nobody is there to stop them.
Fair enough. There isn't a whole lot of that in X-MEN or X2, but there's not a whole lot of need for it, either, given the story. I mean, there was never really a point where that was needed. Logan, Rogue, where very loner-type characters (though wasn't there a deleted scene with Storm talking to Rogue in X-MEN?). When there was, however, a need for this emotional support, when Senator Kelly was afraid, Storm does provide some emotional support by coming to his side and talking to him as he dies. And you can easily picture this woman giving support to her students, to Jean, Cyclops, even Wolverine. We just don't see those scenes. So no, there wasn't a lot of it, but I don't think the way she was portrayed in the film ever suggests she wouldn't be that type of person.
As with the above examples, I see this as a "greater consequence" type action. She tried to get Wolverine to see what was important beyond himself because the X-Men could definatley use his help in the fight against Magneto. Yes, for a worthwhile cause, to save the world leaders, and Rogue. But I didn't view it as a "Logan, I'm here for you" type moment
And with Kelly? Remember, this is a man who hated mutants, who spearheaded an essentially anti-mutant campaign.I see her actions toward Kelly as very merciful and forgiving, in not letting him believe he's alone in how he feels in terms of "fear". Storm mirrors Kelly's own thoughts, it seems.
And let me just say this. Do I think movie Storm is accurate to comic book Storm? No, I don't.
I don't think she was accurate, either. But would you at least say several important aspects of her comic book character appear in the film in some capacity?
But also, I do believe that her movie version is developed, and is given motivation.
Finally, someone sane.
GENERALLY speaking, MANY comic book fans, yes.
Ok. Just making sure that was what you meant.
The stuff that I mentioned above that I felt was lacking from her character; the emotional support.
I'll agree, to a point, but with so many characters and the story demands, there's just not a whole lot of time to keep on reinforcing this aspect, and I don't think it's omission can be considered a minus. It's just somethng that hasn't been shown. However, from what IS shown, it's not unreasonable to imagine this character doing something like that. I mean, mostly all of the "emotional support" moments in the film come via Storm. The spiritual stuff mostly comes from Xavier, and the romantic/friendship stuff comes from Cyclops and Jean's scenes.
But she does come off sounding like borderline Magneto.
Senator Kelly: Do you hate humans?
Storm: Sometimes
.
How does that make her borderline Magneto? Magneto hates humans ALL the time. And wants them dead, or changed to be like him. Storm's lines don't seem that odd to me, I mean, what human being DOESN'T hate or fear his fellow man "sometimes"?
That sounds close to something Magneto might say.
Not really. Here is what Magneto says in regard to his feelings on humans and mutants:
"We are the future, Charles. Not them. They no longer matter."
"There is no tolerance. No peace. Not here, or anywhere else."[/quote]
That's not anything close to what Storm is saying characterwise. Not remotely. It's lightyears away. Storm has never implied humans don't matter, or are lesser beings. She has only admitted that she hates and fears them sometimes. What human being can't say that? But most humans don't want to kill everyone who isn't like them, or make them conform. There's a world of difference. It's not even borderline.
From Storm, I would expect something along the lines of "No, I don't hate humans" and maybe explain why she fears them.
To a complete stranger who is dying? Talk about forced exposition.
But even the first time I saw X-Men and I was too stoked to care about perfect interpretations because it was an X-Men movie, I was kind of taken aback by her "sometimes" response. I expected something more "caring" from her, than "sometimes".
"Sometimes" if nothing else, is honest. "Real". And admitting it, that's caring about him in a way. Because it's allowing Kelly to see that mutants are like him in many ways. They too may have prejudices based on fear.
I can see how a character like that, who is a mutant, and would suffer from persecution, would think like that. But that line of thinking is not what I expect from Storm. I would expect a character like Storm to realize that these people are just ignorant, uninformed, and "smack them in the head with a frying pan" to make them understand (of course that's in apostrophes because it's metaphorical, not literal)
A character as empathic as Storm has been shown to be in the comics, and to some extent, the movies, would almost HAVE to carry anger at the state of the world. It's almost unavoidable for the kind of person she is not to have those things anger her.
Where have we really seen an instance of her not willing to take crap from anyone?
WOLVERINE: "Join the team, be an X-Man? So far you've all done a bang up job."
Does she sit back? Hell no.
STORM: "Then help us. Fight with us!"
When Toad has kicked the crap out of her? What does she do? She calls down the lightning.
When Sabertooth is assaulting her, what does she do? She calls down the lightning.
When Nightcrawler won't come out after being asked, what does she do? She calls down the lightning.
It may just be my interpretation, but I don't really see her interaction with Senator Kelly as forgiving. Yes, the man here is on his death bed, and won't live long enough to make a difference politically, but she has a perfect oppourtunity here to try to ease an anti-mutant man's mind about the subject of mutants.
She does. She shows him that she, and by extension, mutants, are very similar to him in fearing others. This is the last piece of "understanding" he reaches before he dies.
And frankly, easing the man's mind about mutants is something that Charles Xavier has already done/tried to do. So why have two characters use the exact same plot point in the span of about three minutes?
But instead, when he asks if she hates humans, she says "sometimes".
What person who is not "normal" would not reply "sometimes" to that question. Honestly. This is a human truth, really.
My take on Storm would have had her try to comfort him towards the subject of mutants, and try to make him realize, in his last few moments alive, that mutants don't have to be dangerous and hateful, but rather peaceful, forgiving people. In my opinion, that was a missed oppourtunity to define Storm's character.
She seemed pretty peaceful and open, at least there. What's she supposed to do, say "I forgive you, Senator"? That's not her place. But in simply being there with him, and talking to him openly about her hate and fear aspects, she is touching him in a way that no mutants probably have.
First, she does express anger towards humans, in the exchange that I've quoted about twice already between her and Senator Kelly.
But she does it relucantly. And she doesn't get angry with Kelly himself. She is simply open and honest with him. She says what she says in a way that makes it clear that mutants and humans aren't so different in their fear of each other. This is a big deal.
Right... But it's just the mass audience poor interpretations and fanboy's terrible comic book taste that caused these two WRITERS to make these statements and conclusions about the characterization of storm.
), we'll get to see what Bryan Singer would really do with the X-Men, unlimited, in Ultimate X-Men. Whereas film has many limitations, there isn't anything you can't do in a comic book.
