Comics So JMS and Joey Q know they screwed up...

[KingOfDreams]

You can see the writing on the walls...

With both Gwen & Harry in Spidey 3, you know they're coming back.

With Dunst saying she won't do more Spidey films beyond the third one, something tells me they'll get rid of her somehow in the movie, which could spell her demise in the books.

Yeah. It pisses me off how the comics sometimes tend to ride on the coattails of the movies. Morrison's New X-Men is a prime example of this.

 

[deemar325]

I just blew an O-ring!!

Lord you answered my prayers!

Now get to work on that plane engine falling on Joey Q and JMS.

 

[Marc]

These people are ingrained liars, i wouldn't trust one iota of the words they spew. Even if they were to renounce the evil that they had done, it doesn't forgive them, they should be near a spidey title. JMS should be fired, and Joe Q sent back to the post room.

1) They want to return him to Stan Lee's version (MERCIFUL GOD)

Not married, with another woman and not knowing his arse from his elbow? Well, a third of the way there already. As mentioned, its seems obvious the path they want to take considering the movie and recent comments made. The groundwork is being put in in terms of marketing.

2) Norman nailing Gwen was Joey Q's call - "The fans will love it!" BZZZZZZZZZZT!

Which is a ****ing lie! JMS has more power than most writers, I can promise you that, or he wouldn't of done what he has done nor even taken Spidey on board in the first place. HE has control, passing the buck is cowardly and pathetic. JMS WROTE it, if he didn't want to then he could have refused and he would have done. He likes to brag about how incorruptable he is, how he faces down the suits in TV world every five seconds, to say he bent over and said 'spank me big boy' all of a sudden is sheer crap. JMS needs to find his balls and stop hiding, or just piss off for good.

3) Joey Q hates MJ and Peter's marriage. STILL. Okaaaay, so your idea of good change then is to have Gwen nail Norman? The marriage is a beautiful thing when written well. Too bad you have no skills to do so.

Well this is well known already, metnioning it again is both a red herring in the sense it distracts from the actual problems (namely him) and obvious groundwork previously mentioned. I'd suggest he hung himself, but unless he can get spidey to lend him his web shooters, no rope could hold his weight. He admits in his column that any situation or character can be written well yet on the other hand says MJ cannot. Why does this world stand for idiots like this, the genetic pool would be grateful for a culling of the ******s.

4) They KNOW now that the Other was a big piece of crap.

What did they say specifically? Any quotes? Because their ego shouldn't allow them to admit they were wrong, especially not with PAD running around telling everyone how wrong they are. The other was bad, but sins past, avengers and the totem crap are still great I guess.

5) They plan to move him back toward everyman status, which means you can probably kiss his Avenger's membership goodbye.

Hopefully, damage done though. I won't be happy until there is a retcon, JMS is fired and branded a ****, with Joke Q sent to the pits of hell.

Interesting, yet it took them 5 freaking years to figure it out. Way to go, guys.

And to those of you on these boards who just sat back and blatently called me, Shin and a number of other posters whiners...

*AHEM*

WE TOLD YOU SO.

They didn't figure out anything, they are never wrong. This is just some tactic to allow yet more bull****.

And yes indeed, we did tell them. Even now people are telling us to wait and see, as if seeing a tiger running at you full pelt requires you to wait and see if it is hostile. Haven't seen SIAT in a bit, in hiding? Frankly though, I don't much care about being legitimized... I just want the 'badness' gone.

 

[UK_Stu]

Now that I have your attention, read this month's Wizard. Interestingly enough, they BOTH know that Spidey is off track. Welllllll DUH!

Things of note:

1) They want to return him to Stan Lee's version (MERCIFUL GOD)
2) Norman nailing Gwen was Joey Q's call - "The fans will love it!" BZZZZZZZZZZT!
3) Joey Q hates MJ and Peter's marriage. STILL. Okaaaay, so your idea of good change then is to have Gwen nail Norman? The marriage is a beautiful thing when written well. Too bad you have no skills to do so.
4) They KNOW now that the Other was a big piece of crap.
5) They plan to move him back toward everyman status, which means you can probably kiss his Avenger's membership goodbye.

Interesting, yet it took them 5 freaking years to figure it out. Way to go, guys.

And to those of you on these boards who just sat back and blatently called me, Shin and a number of other posters whiners...

*AHEM*

WE TOLD YOU SO.

What concerns me, is how and when they'll sort this out. Its all fine and good maybe admitting you made some mistakes, but can we trust the guys who gave us Sins past, sins remembered and the other to not make things worse?

There will be have to be some serious retcons to explain away some of what has happened recently - I wouldn't be suprised to see Parker wake up, find himself in a hospital bed, surrounded by Gwen, Harry, Flash and MJ - "I've just had the strangest dream"

I would also say the writing is definitely on the wall for MJ, especially the way the movies are going

 

[Dangerous]

Thats trucking refarted!

Ok they know the screwed up....GREAT! Marvel should realize how much these two suck for the spider-man franchise and GET THEM THE HELL AWAY BEFORE THEY SCREW IT UP EVEN MORE!!!!!

Preach brother!

If this is true, what JMS and Joe Q say in the new wizard, then I will be very happy that they can finally admit that they suck s-h1t at making SM comics.
Also I do not want to see JMS write anymore of them, kick his sorry ass off, and someone assassinate that fat turd of an editor.
The SM comics need new blood, a new life-force.

If I were EIC, Spider-man would be immediately restored to his former glory starting w/ all the damaging events of ASM#508 onwards being retconned over a series of arcs that would last say, 6 months and basically undo SP and the Other. Then I would put stable teams of amazing creators on each of the three titles who were all hot on continuity. I’d then put the proper ASM logo back on ASM, and give all 3 titles letters pages.

 

[Dangerous]

Anyway, I won't be buying ASM again until JMS is off or they retcon #508 onwards.

 

[dan1]

Preach brother!

If this is true, what JMS and Joe Q say in the new wizard, then I will be very happy that they can finally admit that they suck s-h1t at making SM comics.
Also I do not want to see JMS write anymore of them, kick his sorry ass off, and someone assassinate that fat turd of an editor.
The SM comics need new blood, a new life-force.

If I were EIC, Spider-man would be immediately restored to his former glory starting w/ all the damaging events of ASM#508 onwards being retconned over a series of arcs that would last say, 6 months and basically undo SP and the Other. Then I would put stable teams of amazing creators on each of the three titles who were all hot on continuity. I’d then put the proper ASM logo back on ASM, and give all 3 titles letters pages.

Rock On!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jeffers]

Anyway, I won't be buying ASM again until JMS is off or they retcon #508 onwards.

Right with you on that one. Spider-Man won't be fixed until Axel Alonzo, who doesn't know a thing about the character, is sent packing, followed by JMS. I can't say anything about the other writers because I haven't read anything since Jenkins (who knew Spidey!) left. I tried Friendly Neighborhood, but couldn't get into it. And If I can't enjoy a Spidey book written by Peter David, something is seriously wrong with the character.

And go back to Stan Lee's original concept. Once again, isn't that what Ultimate is for?

There's nothing wrong with Peter Parker as a young, married man. He just needs writers who can tell good stories about Spider-Man and not bend the character to fit their "visions."

If they want to return Peter Parker to his everyman status, then they have to start telling everyman stories again and not CHANGE EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER KNOWN ABOUT SPIDER-MAN! every eight months.

They had a model for this with Paul Jenkins, and they drove him away. Idiots.

 

[Eye Doc]

I read that interview in Wizard yesterday. It made me laugh a bit.

1)Joe Q seems to be infatuated with attracting a mythical 9yr. old reading audience that doesn't exist.

2)Joe and JMS both complain about the lack of a supporting cast, but JMS hasn't tried to use them in his nearly 5 yr run on the book. The only two people who play a prominent role in the book are MJ and May. From what I've read, JMS gets a lot of creative control. Why didn't he use Betty, Jonah, Liz, Robbie, Randy, etc. Why didn't he try to create someone new for him to interact with? He had no problem adding OTHER NEW CONCEPTS (pun intended). Peter's works at a school. We don't know ANY of his co-workers.

3) They want the book to be like the Stan Lee era. Who ultimately signed off on the mystical totem crap, Sins Past, and the other? Their intials are JQ and JMS! Those stories took Peter much farther away from his core concept than his marriage to MJ.

I don't have a lot of faith in these guys. The books aren't working b/c of their creative decisions. I just don't see them making things right. This reminds me of the post clone era. Three of the writers who wrote Peter out of the series in favor of the clone (Tom DeFalco, Howard Mackie, and JM Dematteis) were the guys who stuck around to relaunch the character when the Clone Saga ended. In my opinion, the line should've been overhauled with new writers.

This recent interview basically says, "we know the books aren't good right now. We made some bad decisions. If we can get rid of MJ we'll make it right".

I can't help but be very cynical.

Eye Doc

 

[wolvie2020]

Right with you on that one. Spider-Man won't be fixed until Axel Alonzo, who doesn't know a thing about the character, is sent packing, followed by JMS. I can't say anything about the other writers because I haven't read anything since Jenkins (who knew Spidey!) left. I tried Friendly Neighborhood, but couldn't get into it. And If I can't enjoy a Spidey book written by Peter David, something is seriously wrong with the character.

And go back to Stan Lee's original concept. Once again, isn't that what Ultimate is for?

There's nothing wrong with Peter Parker as a young, married man. He just needs writers who can tell good stories about Spider-Man and not bend the character to fit their "visions."

If they want to return Peter Parker to his everyman status, then they have to start telling everyman stories again and not CHANGE EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER KNOWN ABOUT SPIDER-MAN! every eight months.

They had a model for this with Paul Jenkins, and they drove him away. Idiots.

Exactly.

You know what gets me the most? How fickle some fanman/fanwomen can be. Jenkins had a groundbreaking run, which paved the way for JMS. Until he got really sick, worked from bed/hospital, and his writing quality decreased.

Fans 4got how he started, and started insulting him from right and left, and hailed JMS a god, while he started his 'totem' stuff. People proudly stated, it's just a new direction, that doesn't change Spidey, and Jenkins should go to hell. Naturally, he now had to leave.

Now look at the mess Spidey's in. NO ONE can disagree with the fact that if Marvel stuck to Jenkins ideas, and direction, that Spidey comics right now would be MUCH more like great Spider-Man stories. Not saying that he should've been writing ASM, but whoever was tackling ASM, should've been told to take a note from him

Human, passionate, moralistic, heart wrenching, comedic, action packed super hero comics. That's what Spidey comics should be

 

[Herr Logan]

That's because they are useless, mindless cowards.

I need to buy this guy a drink. I really do.

 

[Herr Logan]

These people are ingrained liars, i wouldn't trust one iota of the words they spew. Even if they were to renounce the evil that they had done, it doesn't forgive them, they should be near a spidey title. JMS should be fired, and Joe Q sent back to the post room.



Not married, with another woman and not knowing his arse from his elbow? Well, a third of the way there already. As mentioned, its seems obvious the path they want to take considering the movie and recent comments made. The groundwork is being put in in terms of marketing.



Which is a ****ing lie! JMS has more power than most writers, I can promise you that, or he wouldn't of done what he has done nor even taken Spidey on board in the first place. HE has control, passing the buck is cowardly and pathetic. JMS WROTE it, if he didn't want to then he could have refused and he would have done. He likes to brag about how incorruptable he is, how he faces down the suits in TV world every five seconds, to say he bent over and said 'spank me big boy' all of a sudden is sheer crap. JMS needs to find his balls and stop hiding, or just piss off for good.



Well this is well known already, metnioning it again is both a red herring in the sense it distracts from the actual problems (namely him) and obvious groundwork previously mentioned. I'd suggest he hung himself, but unless he can get spidey to lend him his web shooters, no rope could hold his weight. He admits in his column that any situation or character can be written well yet on the other hand says MJ cannot. Why does this world stand for idiots like this, the genetic pool would be grateful for a culling of the ******s.



What did they say specifically? Any quotes? Because their ego shouldn't allow them to admit they were wrong, especially not with PAD running around telling everyone how wrong they are. The other was bad, but sins past, avengers and the totem crap are still great I guess.



Hopefully, damage done though. I won't be happy until there is a retcon, JMS is fired and branded a ****, with Joke Q sent to the pits of hell.



They didn't figure out anything, they are never wrong. This is just some tactic to allow yet more bull****.

And yes indeed, we did tell them. Even now people are telling us to wait and see, as if seeing a tiger running at you full pelt requires you to wait and see if it is hostile. Haven't seen SIAT in a bit, in hiding? Frankly though, I don't much care about being legitimized... I just want the 'badness' gone.

This guy, too.

 

[KingOfDreams]

I would also say the writing is definitely on the wall for MJ, especially the way the movies are going

I know I've said this before but that shouldn't matter. But apparently it does.

 

[wolvie2020]

I read that interview in Wizard yesterday. It made me laugh a bit.

1)Joe Q seems to be infatuated with attracting a mythical 9yr. old reading audience that doesn't exist.

2)Joe and JMS both complain about the lack of a supporting cast, but JMS hasn't tried to use them in his nearly 5 yr run on the book. The only two people who play a prominent role in the book are MJ and May. From what I've read, JMS gets a lot of creative control. Why didn't he use Betty, Jonah, Liz, Robbie, Randy, etc. Why didn't he try to create someone new for him to interact with? He had no problem adding OTHER NEW CONCEPTS (pun intended). Peter's works at a school. We don't know ANY of his co-workers.

3) They want the book to be like the Stan Lee era. Who ultimately signed off on the mystical totem crap, Sins Past, and the other? Their intials are JQ and JMS! Those stories took Peter much farther away from his core concept than his marriage to MJ.

I don't have a lot of faith in these guys. The books aren't working b/c of their creative decisions. I just don't see them making things right. This reminds me of the post clone era. Three of the writers who wrote Peter out of the series in favor of the clone (Tom DeFalco, Howard Mackie, and JM Dematteis) were the guys who stuck around to relaunch the character when the Clone Saga ended. In my opinion, the line should've been overhauled with new writers.

This recent interview basically says, "we know the books aren't good right now. We made some bad decisions. If we can get rid of MJ we'll make it right".

I can't help but be very cynical.

Eye Doc

Again, completely right. What I don't get is, if they KNOW that they KEEP getting it wrong, for FIVE YEARS, why the HELL do they given THEMSELVES the job to FIX THIS S**T!!!!????

Couldn't they be SMART for a change, and hand that job over to someone else?? (hint, hint, Loeb/Campbell, hint, hint???)

Marvel have STACKS of great writers that PEOPLE LOVE!!!??? Why can't we just have someone GREAT taking a shot at a story like this??? Or someone who LOVES Spidey???/

One thing that would be real cool, if they gave the specs, they could get aspiring writers/Spidey fans to give it a shot at the plot for a story like this, far the fans, by the fans! Lol

 

[shinlyle]

I need to buy this guy a drink. I really do.

Likewise, man!

Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum is my brand of choice, by the way.

 

[Herr Logan]

Likewise, man!

Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum is my brand of choice, by the way.

I'll try to keep that in mind.

Mine's Cherry Coke.

 

[shinlyle]

Exactly.

You know what gets me the most? How fickle some fanman/fanwomen can be. Jenkins had a groundbreaking run, which paved the way for JMS. Until he got really sick, worked from bed/hospital, and his writing quality decreased.

Fans 4got how he started, and started insulting him from right and left, and hailed JMS a god, while he started his 'totem' stuff. People proudly stated, it's just a new direction, that doesn't change Spidey, and Jenkins should go to hell. Naturally, he now had to leave.

Now look at the mess Spidey's in. NO ONE can disagree with the fact that if Marvel stuck to Jenkins ideas, and direction, that Spidey comics right now would be MUCH more like great Spider-Man stories. Not saying that he should've been writing ASM, but whoever was tackling ASM, should've been told to take a note from him

Human, passionate, moralistic, heart wrenching, comedic, action packed super hero comics. That's what Spidey comics should be

Agreed. Jenkins's writing fell victim to the TPB police, and we all know it. The Dissassembled crapola was forced upon him, and from the point where the "Queen" was introduced, the book went completely downhill. It turned back up with the Poker issue, Mindworm, and the Finale, which was absolutely wonderful, but, with "Sins Remembered" thrown in there for good measure (of which Jenkins had NOTHING to do with) , Spectacular Spider-Man fell upon the sword that should have been JMS's.

I remember Jenkins's stuff on PPSM....man! Those were some great stories. The one with the Vulture, the one with the Human Torch, and most of the others from that series....no arcs....no convoluted stories....he even brought into the fold a *gasp* supporting cast!!

I will always loook fondly upon Jenkins's Spider-Man stuff.

 

[shinlyle]

I'll try to keep that in mind.

Mine's Cherry Coke.

As far as soft drinks go, mine is Coca-Cola Classic.

 

[wolvie2020]

As far as soft drinks go, mine is Coca-Cola Classic.

But you have to give cherry coke props for not being scared of being different, and just rollin' wit it.

I have no respect for 'new' Coke. That ***** just be bitin' yo!

Ironically, I'm a through and through Pepsi man myself

 

[Gregatron]

Maybe Roger Stern can be lured back if he's allowed to "fix" Spidey.

It's not a stretch to say that he may very well come in second to Lee and Ditko.

 

[gildea]

Out of curiosity how do we fix spidey?

Do we ignore or do we retacon?

For example i would like to retacon sins past to save gwens character but i don't like the idea of spending 3 issues fixing that dark dark time.

suggestions?

 

[Doc Destruction]

No drink love for the Doc. Le sigh.

 

[Gregatron]

Out of curiosity how do we fix spidey?

Do we ignore or do we retacon?

For example i would like to retacon sins past to save gwens character but i don't like the idea of spending 3 issues fixing that dark dark time.

suggestions?

All that's needed to begin with is a change in tone, theme, and creative ways of disproving recent events. There shouldn't be issues solely dedicated to "fixing" the character.

That would be a start.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Out of curiosity how do we fix spidey?

Do we ignore or do we retacon?

For example i would like to retacon sins past to save gwens character but i don't like the idea of spending 3 issues fixing that dark dark time.

suggestions?

Yes, give JMS' run the Baby May treatment and move along.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

No, I want a nice nasty retcon to smear right across JMS' face.

Anyway, I'm calling BS on this. Both these guys' lack the skill and focus to move in a productive and creative venue for more than a couple of weeks, if that long. Not to mention that their next big story will "Tear your heart out", shows me they have learned nothing from their last "smash hit".