The Amazing Spider-Man So now we've seen both, which was the best?

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Once more,it would have been in sync with his pre-serum personality

You are correct, it would have been in sync and would've worked :up:

The costume I mean is a skin tight outfit,the outfit a villian wears should make sense
Scarecrow had that mask to scare his patients with the gas,the scarecrow in the comics had a different outfit
Joker was a lunatic and him wearing facepaint just added to his personality
Bane outfit was also modernised,he wasnt given the luchodor look cause that would look ridiculous on the big screen
Seriously for all the praise you do for Nolan,you dont learn much from his methods

Green Goblin being in some goblin-esque suit would have made sense as well, just use a different kind of material if you're so much against latex. Hell, use the same kind of material Raimi used on Spider-Man's suit. It would've been fine and I bet you no one would've complained such as much as you are.

And that last "zing" was uncalled for. I am aware of Nolan's methods with the villains, but they are still costumes nonetheless. Once more, you twist words around. I had thought you would've grown out of that stage.

Similarly Goblin's costume in SM1 made sense since it was pilots suit and its the reason why they dont have the classic wolverine look in X-men movies
If he is a lunatic pre-serum in TASM's trilogy,I am all in for a Goblin-esque look(As long as it is skin tight latex)
In the same way I want Electro's look/costume to be more realistic and have a good explanation(Him wearing it to control electricity or something)

HE DOESN'T NEED TO BE A LUNATIC PRE-SERUM. You're crazy yourself if you think that has to be the case, haha. A fascination over folklore or the occult can be a fascination with anyone. Only saying the serum would actually make him 'become' a goblin and actually make a suit. Jeez man, think for a second.

Things happening which convinietly fits into the plot happens all the time
And I already admitted that the mask part wasnt made very clear

At least you said that. Indeed, the mask part should've been explained, even if for a sentence such as the origin of Bane's mask in TDKR.

But it would not match your pernality if you are portrayed as a genius scientist who gives it all for his company

So being interested in folklore in your personal life outside of your work life would not match? So you only know people that don't have hobbies or interests outside of work?

I guess you havent read any USM comics
And nothing wrong in modifying the look

I don't read comics much, and especially **** like the USM comics.

And also laughable that you bring in the USM comics when saying nothing wrong with modifying a look when Ultimate Green Goblin is a giant Hulk Goblin :funny:

There wasnt because no civilian initially saw the swat lizards

So the SWAT lizards really had no point even being in a film. It did nothing to the narrative when people didn't even see the SWAT lizards. Amazing, hah.

And he did show that,Jesus watch the movie again

Lol, what? You stated already we only see this through Spidey's eyes and the news and all of a sudden you say Webb did show it?

Because the complete police force has turned into Lizards? Stacy is not as mad as Foley,5-6 of them change and the rest of the police force is still in function
And about the people,'Hey they just evacuated that area to take down a giant lizard,lets go and see what came of it'

"Stacy is not as mad as Foley". What is the need to take a shot at TDKR like that? Lol. That more or less shows you have no more options when you start to take a shot at other characters in other movies. Nice one.

But...you know, only a SWAT team was really trying to stop the Lizard while most of the NYPD was after Spidey at this time. It's not accurate to say the rest of the cops were evacuating at that time.
 
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Wasn't it explained that Bane's mask gives him medicine?
 
Webb rehashed Raimi's movie and Raimi did it better.

Webb made Peter Parker into a hippie beatnik that acts like Edward Cullen.

And now he's doing Jamie Foxx . . . as Electro . . . yup.
 
I don't see how he was any less responsible. In both this and Raimi's flick Peter could have used his powers to stop the burglar but didn't out of spite towards the victim.

In both cases he was almost justified in not getting involved (the store clerk AND the show host/announcer were both *******s)

Yeah now that I think about it he wasn't really less responsible for Ben's death than in the first movie. I just feel like it was worse, while being too similar to the first movie.

You say they should have had a wrestling scene and shown him use his powers to make money and say you felt TASM unnecessarily similar to the first movie? Add them in and it would have felt similar lol.

The first movie didn't show him do television appearances. And since using his powers for money is in the source material, it wouldn't matter if it was in both movies (just like Ben's death and the spider bite).
What I'm talking about are the scenes that were similar to Raimi's movies but weren't in the source material.

*He gets bitten just after speaking with the love interest, as she's walking away from him.
*Uncle Ben dies on the sidewalk with Peter crying over him.
*Parker lets the murderer go out of spite, because the other guy was being a dick.
*The awkward stuttering between Parker and love interest.
*The train fight felt like the fight with flash. Both show him discover his spidersense and reflexes while instinctively and 'accidentally' defending against an attack. But the train fight was worse imo because his reaction was less believable and he kept saying sorry.
*He accidentally has things stick to his hands while discovering his powers.
*Even though they took it out, the scene where Dr Ratha? gasses Spider-man would have been like the scene where Green Goblin gasses Spider-man.
*The Crane scene.
 
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Yeah now that I think about it he wasn't really less responsible for Ben's death than in the first movie. I just feel like it was worse, while being too similar to the first movie.

I suppose that's fair enough. I liked it just fine.

The first movie didn't show him do television appearances. And since using his powers for money is in the source material, it wouldn't matter if it was in both movies (just like Ben's death and the spider bite).

I actually talk about this in more detail here:
http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2012/10/spider-movie-part-ii-origin-story.html

But the gist is that while some elements of the origin must go unchanged for the character to work, that the entertainment career, while fine, actually isn't necessary for the character's origin to be properly portrayed.

The fact is a lot of the original origin story (found in Amazing Fantasy #15) was written not unlike a 'twilight zone' episode. There was no primary 'bad guy' or love interest or anything. It was about a guy who gets powers and everything goes great, and suddenly realizes (in the twist ending) that if he had behaved more responsibly his uncle (one of the only people that loved him) would still be alive. The end.

When your making a movie you have to cut out the fat and get to the story or else the film could start to drag. Having him do 'the entertainment gig' would have gone over one of two ways.

1. It would have added to much length and bogged the main story down
2. It would have been skimmed over too fast and seemed like a silly, random, and underdeveloped story beat.

So they cut it. And wisely so in my opinion.

What I'm talking about are the scenes that were similar to Raimi's movies but weren't in the source material.

*He gets bitten just after speaking with the love interest, as she's walking away from him.

I guess? This one's a bit of a stretch to me. I didn't find them similar enough to notice until you pointed it out.

*Uncle Ben dies on the sidewalk with Peter crying over him.

This one I can understand, but like I said before it honestly didn't bug me.

*Parker lets the murderer go out of spite, because the other guy was being a dick.

I felt that in both films they did this because it would have taken too much time to do it otherwise. In the comic Spider-man had been having his ego inflated for longer than either Peter from the films. In both cases the films played it as 'I've put up with so much crap in the past, but no more. The guy wants to be a dick? Fine. If he'd been nice I could have totally saved him from getting robbed, but I don't have to do Jack ---- if I don't want to." That way he has still made a choice that pertains to responsibility, and that comes with consequences. To have him 'just not feel like being bothered' like in the comic needs to allow for enough time to have passed in the characters life for such a decision to make sense.

*The awkward stuttering between Parker and love interest.

Didn't mind that at all as this rang very true to me. When I was a teenager I was PAINFULLY awkward around girls. To me Mary Jane and Peter were much worse to watch, and the writing always felt very forced and ham fisted. I never believed for a second that teenagers, or anyone, would talk like that.

*The train fight felt like the fight with flash. Both show him discover his spidersense and reflexes while instinctively and 'accidentally' defending against an attack. But the train fight was worse imo because his reaction was less believable and he kept saying sorry.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I found this fight highly entertaining to watch, and really appreciated the way his reflexes seemed almost more instinctual than intentional. It was almost like he was freaking himself out more than anything. If I suddenly got the ability to kick peoples butts left right and centre without even trying I'd probably get freaked out too.

*He accidentally has things stick to his hands while discovering his powers.

Well yeah. It seems to me realistic that you find out about your ability to stick to walls by having things stick to your hands first. It's not like you would go out of your way to try climbing wall unless you had some indication that it might be something you're capable of doing first.

*Even though they took it out, the scene where Dr Ratha? gasses Spider-man would have been like the scene where Green Goblin gasses Spider-man.

Don't know what scene you're talking about, but as it didn't make it in the final cut I can't say it bothered me.
 
Webb rehashed Raimi's movie and Raimi did it better.

Webb made Peter Parker into a hippie beatnik that acts like Edward Cullen.

And now he's doing Jamie Foxx . . . as Electro . . . yup.
exactly how i feel he rehashed the crap out of sm1 but raimi did it better

ben's death was better in raimi's film
creation of peter's mask was done better in raimi's film
even villain origin was exactly the same as goblin in sm1
spider bite was done better in raimi film too

also better spiderman theme elfman's theme was iconic imo:cwink:

his spidey theme was bombastic,fantastical,fun,uplifting and the type of theme that would make a kid want to be a super hero

webb's film also lacked the fun and charm associated with sidey that raimi film had

dont get me wrong i liked webb's film and hope for a sequel just feel sam did it better

webb is gonna have to step it up for round 2 if he wants to top sm2 tho
 
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Elfman's Spider-Man theme is underrated, had those nice little beats that were like a spider crawling. It was like the more heroic update of his Batman theme.

Webb's movie promised all this untold origin stuff that never happened or came out of the movie. I imagine that was Sony pulling rank and worried about backlash coming from fans if they deviated Spider-Man's origin too much.

I also got the sense that Webb changed certain things just to be different from before like not having WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY. Trying way too hard.
 
webb's film also lacked the fun and charm associated with sidey that raimi film had

Over all I felt Raimi's Spider-man wasn't nearly as plucky and fun loving as Webb's. Raimi's Spidey always felt like he was on the verge of crying.
 
Elfman's Spider-Man theme is underrated, had those nice little beats that were like a spider crawling. It was like the more heroic update of his Batman theme.

Webb's movie promised all this untold origin stuff that never happened or came out of the movie. I imagine that was Sony pulling rank and worried about backlash coming from fans if they deviated Spider-Man's origin too much.

I also got the sense that Webb changed certain things just to be different from before like not having WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY. Trying way too hard.

oh i hated that too either say that iconic line 100% or don't say it at all don't say it with different words just very half assed and forced

thats like michael shannon saying bow down before zod in man of steel instead of kneel lol
 
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Don't feel the "always on the verge of crying" part
 
I liked those parts in Spider-Man since they were emotional and you know I liked seeing the hero cry for once. In 2002 we hardly ever saw that. I loved that shot of Spider-Man on the gargoyle defeated and guilty over what had happened because I mean THAT'S the character I grew up reading. That was all Spider-Man to me. Raimi I think really understood those core parts and values of the character. The integrity of the character.

You guys may not realize this but in a lot of Spider-Man stories it's not all plucky happy go lucky Peter Parker. Quite often life is kicking him in the junk and you know Peter cries and goes through a lot of turbulent and emotional events. It's not always great to be Spider-Man. He doesn't have the confidence or ease in his life that say Superman does. I think Raimi captured that.

Sony and Webb should've just really made this a loose requel. Doing the origin again was a mistake.
 
Well yeah. It seems to me realistic that you find out about your ability to stick to walls by having things stick to your hands first. It's not like you would go out of your way to try climbing wall unless you had some indication that it might be something you're capable of doing first

But it's not like they had to do it the way they did. The comics didn't, and I think they should have made the effort to avoid things we've already seen.

Oh! And how could I forget the crane scene when making my list of similarities.
ASM took way too much from the first movie, but like I said it did most of those things worse.
 
I would have liked for the discovery to be much like in the original comics, Peter walking sick, feels a warning signal of a car about to hit him, jumping out of the way and sticking to a wall.
 
When your making a movie you have to cut out the fat and get to the story or else the film could start to drag. Having him do 'the entertainment gig' would have gone over one of two ways.

1. It would have added to much length and bogged the main story down
2. It would have been skimmed over too fast and seemed like a silly, random, and underdeveloped story beat.

So they cut it. And wisely so in my opinion.

The movie had both these problems for different reasons.

Peter Parker getting spider-powers was the side plot. In the days after getting his powers, he seems more preoccupied with Gwen Stacy and his parents/Connors than with them. He doesn't do anything with his powers at all until Ben dies.
But the Gwen Stacy relationship is rushed, leading to her learning his identity straight away, and the subplot with the parents just kind of disappears part way through.
Spider-man becoming a vigilante was skimmed over too fast, and again the build up to the shot of his finished costume felt too much like the montage from the first movie.

Since they decided to redo the origin, rather than focus on things we've already seen they could've drawn out the entertainment gig and made that the central plot for a significant part of the movie (or just the first half). It wouldn't have to bogg down 'the main story' if you make that part of the movie fun and interesting, as well as significant to the plot. Whose to say it wouldn't be the main story at that point?
 
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Wasn't it explained that Bane's mask gives him medicine?

Yes, but it was mentioned on like one sentence. Kinda sucks and it deserved further explanation, imo, but it was enough though to just nod your head and understand.
 
You are correct, it would have been in sync and would've worked :up:
I meant wouldnt*

Green Goblin being in some goblin-esque suit would have made sense as well, just use a different kind of material if you're so much against latex. Hell, use the same kind of material Raimi used on Spider-Man's suit. It would've been fine and I bet you no one would've complained such as much as you are.
I am against anything skin tight for the villian
And making a goblin design out of armour would work either

And that last "zing" was uncalled for. I am aware of Nolan's methods with the villains, but they are still costumes nonetheless. Once more, you twist words around. I had thought you would've grown out of that stage.
You are not getting me,all of Nolan's villians and Goblin in SM1 have perfectly good explanations for their costumes
A goblin-esque costume doesnt have legitimate explanation imo,the 'He is obsessed with folk-lore' thingy doesnt at all seem right.He is a hard working,sacrificing,genius scientist and is potrayed as a like-able person pre-serum,adding a obsession like that is out of character imo and hence the costume we saw was correct
If they portray him as a lunatic pre-serum in TASM they then the Goblin costume will add to his personality(like Joker's face paint and obsession with knives and all in TDK)

HE DOESN'T NEED TO BE A LUNATIC PRE-SERUM. You're crazy yourself if you think that has to be the case, haha. A fascination over folklore or the occult can be a fascination with anyone. Only saying the serum would actually make him 'become' a goblin and actually make a suit. Jeez man, think for a second.
I have never met anyone in my life who has interest in Goblins,I would definitely call a person abnormal if he has interest in them

At least you said that. Indeed, the mask part should've been explained, even if for a sentence such as the origin of Bane's mask in TDKR.
Needless to say,it wasnt explained properly in TDKR even.What exactly leads him to wear that mask?

So being interested in folklore in your personal life outside of your work life would not match? So you only know people that don't have hobbies or interests outside of work?
I do but definitely not that wierd

I don't read comics much, and especially **** like the USM comics.

And also laughable that you bring in the USM comics when saying nothing wrong with modifying a look when Ultimate Green Goblin is a giant Hulk Goblin :funny:
You are missing the point,a whole comic series calls him Green Goblin when he doesnt even remotely resemble a goblin.
Raimi's Goblin actually resembled a goblin somewhat.
As for modifying the look,Dafoe's Goblin was the right combination of modifying/modernising and staying similar to comic book counterpart unlike pyro-hulk
I want something similar for Electro aswell

So the SWAT lizards really had no point even being in a film. It did nothing to the narrative when people didn't even see the SWAT lizards. Amazing, hah.
The whole climax was based on that,we see how the serum can effect the people and thats the reason for firing the antidote.Wouldnt make sense to fire an antidote into the air when no one affected to start with,just inject Connors

Lol, what? You stated already we only see this through Spidey's eyes and the news and all of a sudden you say Webb did show it?
Yeah we see it through the roof tops

But...you know, only a SWAT team was really trying to stop the Lizard while most of the NYPD was after Spidey at this time. It's not accurate to say the rest of the cops were evacuating at that time.
Whatever the case,people were not present in that street
 
I meant wouldnt*

Nope, too late, you said would :woot:

I am against anything skin tight for the villian
And making a goblin design out of armour would work either

Then you must have hated Selina Kyle's costume :funny:

And...I wasn't speaking on armor either. There is other material one could use without being latex and be thinner than armor and actually look like Green Goblin in the comics.

You are not getting me,all of Nolan's villians and Goblin in SM1 have perfectly good explanations for their costumes
A goblin-esque costume doesnt have legitimate explanation imo,the 'He is obsessed with folk-lore' thingy doesnt at all seem right.He is a hard working,sacrificing,genius scientist and is potrayed as a like-able person pre-serum,adding a obsession like that is out of character imo and hence the costume we saw was correct
If they portray him as a lunatic pre-serum in TASM they then the Goblin costume will add to his personality(like Joker's face paint and obsession with knives and all in TDK)

So once more, you think someone with a hobby is out of character. You're right, that is your opinion, but I'm sure no one would have such a silly opinion as that. Anyone could have a hobby and having a fascination over folklore is just that, it's only when taking the serum would Norman go a step too far and actually become a goblin-esque character.

And you're getting obsession and having a hobby mixed up. Norman can only have a HOBBY of understanding folklore as someone who's into the tales from the Grimm Brothers for example rather than some obsession at first.

I have never met anyone in my life who has interest in Goblins,I would definitely call a person abnormal if he has interest in them

How about folklore in general? No, not one person?

Needless to say,it wasnt explained properly in TDKR even.What exactly leads him to wear that mask?

To keep the pain at bay by using medicine to be inhaled through the mask from small chambers storing the medicine at the sides of Bane's mask that goes through the small pipelines or whatever they're called.

I do but definitely not that wierd

And that's not weird. A hobby in S&M would be weird.

You are missing the point,a whole comic series calls him Green Goblin when he doesnt even remotely resemble a goblin.
Raimi's Goblin actually resembled a goblin somewhat.
As for modifying the look,Dafoe's Goblin was the right combination of modifying/modernising and staying similar to comic book counterpart unlike pyro-hulk
I want something similar for Electro aswell

He's Green and looks like a giant Goblin. That's the point of him being called Green Goblin. Granted, he doesn't look like what a goblin generally looks in other mediums, but he still looks like a general goblin but much, much larger.

And Raimi's Goblin only looks like a goblin neck up. Otherwise, he looks like he's wearing a pilot's outfit and he is.

The whole climax was based on that,we see how the serum can effect the people and thats the reason for firing the antidote.Wouldnt make sense to fire an antidote into the air when no one affected to start with,just inject Connors

So the point of the SWAT lizards was just to set an example. Pretty awesome, not. It's useless for Lizard to make an example out of an entire SWAT team. As I've said before, this could have happened to just one person, say Martha Connors or Billy and then Lizard trying to test out on the entire city which fails. Turning the SWAT team into lizards and only seeing them after the cure is released was not a great idea. The SWAT team became forgettable and when they finally appear again, it's more like "Oh, yah, I forgot about those guys." That's why at least they would've meant something if Spider-Man had to fight them.

Yeah we see it through the roof tops

So you're now contradicting yourself when you say we only saw it through Spidey's eyes and the news?

Whatever the case,people were not present in that street

Whatever the case, it makes no sense :cwink:
 
There is other material one could use without being latex and be thinner than armor and actually look like Green Goblin in the comics.
Like Captain America's The Avengers costume? I really dig that type of material :woot:
 
I liked those parts in Spider-Man since they were emotional and you know I liked seeing the hero cry for once. In 2002 we hardly ever saw that. I loved that shot of Spider-Man on the gargoyle defeated and guilty over what had happened because I mean THAT'S the character I grew up reading. That was all Spider-Man to me. Raimi I think really understood those core parts and values of the character. The integrity of the character.

You guys may not realize this but in a lot of Spider-Man stories it's not all plucky happy go lucky Peter Parker. Quite often life is kicking him in the junk and you know Peter cries and goes through a lot of turbulent and emotional events. It's not always great to be Spider-Man. He doesn't have the confidence or ease in his life that say Superman does. I think Raimi captured that.

Sony and Webb should've just really made this a loose requel. Doing the origin again was a mistake.

My face right now :

tumblr_mcw22wKqlK1qcxsuso4_250.gif
 
I liked those parts in Spider-Man since they were emotional and you know I liked seeing the hero cry for once. In 2002 we hardly ever saw that. I loved that shot of Spider-Man on the gargoyle defeated and guilty over what had happened because I mean THAT'S the character I grew up reading. That was all Spider-Man to me. Raimi I think really understood those core parts and values of the character. The integrity of the character.

You guys may not realize this but in a lot of Spider-Man stories it's not all plucky happy go lucky Peter Parker. Quite often life is kicking him in the junk and you know Peter cries and goes through a lot of turbulent and emotional events. It's not always great to be Spider-Man. He doesn't have the confidence or ease in his life that say Superman does. I think Raimi captured that.

Sony and Webb should've just really made this a loose requel. Doing the origin again was a mistake.
:up:
 
I liked those parts in Spider-Man since they were emotional and you know I liked seeing the hero cry for once. In 2002 we hardly ever saw that. I loved that shot of Spider-Man on the gargoyle defeated and guilty over what had happened because I mean THAT'S the character I grew up reading. That was all Spider-Man to me. Raimi I think really understood those core parts and values of the character. The integrity of the character.

You guys may not realize this but in a lot of Spider-Man stories it's not all plucky happy go lucky Peter Parker. Quite often life is kicking him in the junk and you know Peter cries and goes through a lot of turbulent and emotional events. It's not always great to be Spider-Man. He doesn't have the confidence or ease in his life that say Superman does. I think Raimi captured that.

Sony and Webb should've just really made this a loose requel. Doing the origin again was a mistake.

IMO, they did the right thing in doing the origin again and cutting ALL ties with the previous trilogy, especially if they use Norman again (be weird if lose sequel). They've set up their film, how Pete becomes spidey. Brilliant.

And for me, the film showed how hard Pete was having it. Scenes like we saw with him coming in late after the car jacker scene, where he tries to hide his injuries and you see the strain it's having on him and his aunt, how worried she is not knowing what he's doing and Pete having to lie and not being able to tell her. This scene for me showed MORE of the struggle (both emotional and physical) the Pete is going through than in any of the previous spidey films.

I don't see how he was so happy go lucky in this film? I felt he was more like that in the previous films. Here, we saw a spidey who was jokey and also pissed when not being shown appreciation (when the cop points a gun at him) and then as Pete, see the effect it's having on him.

But hey, all opinion here :)
 
they did all those things in raimi's films it is like people dont even watch those films lol

i dont know what it is,is raimi's films too comedic for people to notice the drama with in it or something?

it is like when people said tobey wasn't quipping enough when him and andrew had about the same amount of humor
 
they did all those things in raimi's films it is like people dont even watch those films lol

i dont know what it is,is raimi's films too comedic for people to notice the drama with in it or something?

it is like when people said tobey wasn't quipping enough when him and andrew had about the same amount of humor

When did you have a scene like the one with Aunt May and Pete after the carjacker scene in the Raimi films? Not once did I feel the strain between the two. Even the Ben death reveal in SM2 was that scene, and then nothing until he goes to the house to see her, and it's 'all in the past'.
 
I thought TASM redoing the origin was a great idea because not only did it show that the movie was a reboot (the movie only came out 5 years after the last Raimi film; many people thought The Incredible Hulk was a sequel to Ang Lee's Hulk, which came out 5 years prior; heck many people thought Batman Begins was a prequel to the '89 movie) but because the origin was never fully explored in the first movie. I was rushed in the first 20 - 30 minutes of the movie and you never really got to see it fleshed out like in the first volume of Ultimate Spider-Man (best retelling of the origin IMO). TASM did that right.


Also, doing a loose sequel would've been a major mistake. Raimi skipped a lot of great aspects of the Spider-Man mythos like Peter's high school days as Spider-Man and Gwen Stacy. Starting over not only resets the continuity and allows for better stories to be adapted since less material is skipped but also (at least so far) villains haven't died that much so they could come back in future films. This may also be Sony's chance to do a loose continuity in a series of Spider-Man films similar to James Bond, which is something that I wanted for both Batman's movies and Spider-Man's movies for a while now.

Finally, despite of whether or not you thought TASM was a good or bad movie, I think we can all agree that a sequel to TASM has far more potential than a sequel to SM1 ever did not only because it's more like the comics but also due to the building blocks TASM had set up.
 
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