Sonic the Hedgehog 2

[Arachnerd]

The Sonic fandom at large pretty much treats him like the absolute joke he is and I'm glad for it.

 

[Karelia]

The Sonic fandom at large pretty much treats him like the absolute joke he is and I'm glad for it.

I've been a Sonic fan my whole life, I dip in and out though. This is the first I've even heard of this guy. I'm glad most think he's out of his mind.

I haven't played all the new games that have came out (last I played was Sonic Forces/Mania/Generations) and I own a handful of Archie comics and started reading the IDW run a few years back, which is really good... need to catch up on that.

 

[The Big G]

Well, how can Penders claim ownership over any of that? It's technically not his intellectual property. Sonic, Knuckles, Chaos Emeralds are owned by SEGA.

Because he lives in his own little world. Where he think's he made Sonic the Hedgehog into the icon it was.

Dude, I watched a few videos about this Ken Penders guy, he's been suing Sega /Archie Comics for a decade now. He's caused so many problems for their comic canon. They can't even use Scourge the Hedgehog anymore. This guy said they have stolen his ideas, but they're not even THAT similar. He was going on a rant about they used Knuckles dad, who he created. But they never mention his name or anything in the film.

The more I've learned about this guy, the less I respect.

The Sonic fandom at large pretty much treats him like the absolute joke he is and I'm glad for it.

I'll give him this...he created a bunch of characters that I really enjoyed back in the day. But the way he acts on social media and how he's treated others...he loses all good will.

His legacy isn't the dozens of characters he created or his years of work on it...it's the lawsuit.

 

[TheVileOne]

I also read that Penders is preventing the use of Mobius. How is that even possible? Mobius first appeared in the Sonic Bible, and it appeared in the 1990s DiC animated series beforehand. Penders had nothing to do with its conception, naming, or creation. He didn't even work on the animated show.

Basically, from the minimal research I did on this, the problems with Penders are due to Archie Comics' poor handling of this matter and failing to produce his contract when the matter was taken to court. Does Archie Comics not own filing cabinets? Did they lose everything in a fire?

 

[TheVileOne]

Dude, I watched a few videos about this Ken Penders guy, he's been suing Sega /Archie Comics for a decade now. He's caused so many problems for their comic canon. They can't even use Scourge the Hedgehog anymore. This guy said they have stolen his ideas, but they're not even THAT similar. He was going on a rant about they used Knuckles dad, who he created. But they never mention his name or anything in the film.

The more I've learned about this guy, the less I respect.

From what I understand, Penders created EVIL SONIC who later became Scourge, under a different writer. Evil Sonic, is literally just an evil copy version of SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, a character he didn't create or own.

I don't think I can do a Star Wars comic for Marvel and create Evil Luke Skywalker and then claim I own Evil Luke Skywalker because I wrote a comic and story with him in it and said, "Hey you know what, what if I made an evil clone of Luke Skywalker?"

 

[DarkShadow10]

Well, how can Penders claim ownership over any of that? It's technically not his intellectual property. Sonic, Knuckles, Chaos Emeralds are owned by SEGA.

He’s also claiming IP ownership over Knuckle’s dad and the very idea that he has a father.

 

[TheVileOne]

He’s also claiming IP ownership over Knuckle’s dad and the very idea that he has a father.

Everything I've heard about this guy and seen of his recent tweets make him look like a really self-important jerk with a really self-inflated ego of his work.

Not to mention he's trying to take credit and ownership of things he didn't do or create, which is also just scummy behavior. He didn't create Knuckles or the existence of an Echidna Tribe. Of course Knuckles having an Echidna father would look similar because it stands to reason a tribe of familial echidna would all look similar to Knuckles!

And he's saying all this based on pure hearsay. So yeah, dude should really challenge SEGA and Paramount lawyers. Go for it, dude.

 

[The Big G]

Kenny P did sue Sega & Bioware due to the Nocturnus clan being pretty much inspired by his Dark Legion from the Archie days.

The lawsuit wad dismissed.

So if he does decide to take action..this would be lawsuit 3 (& Knuckles)

 

[TheVileOne]

Kenny P did sue Sega & Bioware due to the Nocturnus clan being pretty much inspired by his Dark Legion from the Archie days.

The lawsuit wad dismissed.

So if he does decide to take action..this would be lawsuit 3 (& Knuckles)

Didn't Knuckles have a clan that predates this so-called Dark Legion?

 

[The Big G]

Didn't Knuckles have a clan that predates this so-called Dark Legion?

Tikal, Pachacamac and the "Knuckles Clan" didn't come into being until SA in 1998. The Sega Game guides loosely referenced Knuckles ancestors using the power of the emeralds back in 1993. Penders Dark Legion came into being in 96/97. The Dark Legion being a group of tech obsessed Cyborg Echidnas that were exiled to another zone due to their radical beliefs.

They're also led by the descendants of Knuckle's ancestor's brother, so they're basically his distant cousins.

He also in a possible future marries one and has a daughter.

 

[TheVileOne]

Tikal, Pachacamac and the "Knuckles Clan" didn't come into being until SA in 1998. The Sega Game guides loosely referenced Knuckles ancestors using the power of the emeralds back in 1993. Penders Dark Legion came into being in 96/97. The Dark Legion being a group of tech obsessed Cyborg Echidnas that were exiled to another zone due to their radical beliefs.

They're also led by the descendants of Knuckle's ancestor's brother, so they're basically his distant cousins.

He also in a possible future marries one and has a daughter.

Sonic Adventure came out in 1998 and likely began development well before that. Basically meaning that Sega created an Echidna tribe for Knuckles first that shares no similarity to the Dark Legion.

Kenny P did sue Sega & Bioware due to the Nocturnus clan being pretty much inspired by his Dark Legion from the Archie days.

The lawsuit wad dismissed.

So if he does decide to take action..this would be lawsuit 3 (& Knuckles)

I don't think he will. He's talking a big game from a place of ignorance. But I hope he does. It would be hilarious.

 

[The Big G]

Sonic Adventure came out in 1998 and likely began development well before that. Basically meaning that Sega created an Echidna tribe for Knuckles first that shares no similarity to the Dark Legion.

Pretty much. Though the reason he sued was the Echidna Tribe that Bioware created for their Sonic RPG game in 2008 was a group of Tech worshipping Echidnas. But that's such a broad stroke it still falls flat. Hence why the Judge dismissed it.

I don't think he will. He's talking a big game from a place of ignorance. But I hope he does. It would be hilarious.

He probably wont...but dear jesus I hope he does. Because it will get him to finally shut up. Paramount/CBS lawyers might not be DIsney level; but they're still pretty hight up.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Saw this yesterday. There were parts I absolutely loved. Thought Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were all great. Loved more of the Sonic world lore. And the final boss battle was clearly where all the budget went.

But there were some truly ludicrous parts in it. Like can we please just get rid of the humans? What I wouldn't give for an entirely animated Sonic movie set on his home planet or whatever. Every single scene with a human (save for Robotnik) is the cringiest thing everrrrrr.

And omg there's one "Wedding" scene that is like 15 minutes long and adds absolutely nothing. There's so much weird filler in this movie, where they crowbar in human actors and it's so clearly because it's cheaper? It's like they're literally killing time and padding out the movie.

The two biggest action sequences are the movies best parts and honestly, I just want a whole movie of that. And some better screenwriters, dear GOD some better screenwriters. I know it's a kids movie but kids are smarter than this rubbish haha

 

[TheVileOne]

Saw this yesterday. There were parts I absolutely loved. Thought Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were all great. Loved more of the Sonic world lore. And the final boss battle was clearly where all the budget went.

But there were some truly ludicrous parts in it. Like can we please just get rid of the humans? What I wouldn't give for an entirely animated Sonic movie set on his home planet or whatever. Every single scene with a human (save for Robotnik) is the cringiest thing everrrrrr.

And omg there's one "Wedding" scene that is like 15 minutes long and adds absolutely nothing. There's so much weird filler in this movie, where they crowbar in human actors and it's so clearly because it's cheaper? It's like they're literally killing time and padding out the movie.

The two biggest action sequences are the movies best parts and honestly, I just want a whole movie of that. And some better screenwriters, dear GOD some better screenwriters. I know it's a kids movie but kids are smarter than this rubbish haha

Yes the human scenes were bad and really dragged things to a halt. I can't believe how much the wedding shenanigans went on, along with the sister. It was too much.

They really need to either drop that nonsense or dial it back for the third movie. At least I hope they do.

I'm just saying, in Sonic 2, I see signs of a much greater movie. They could make these films even better if they cut the bad parts.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I'm just saying, in Sonic 2, I see signs of a much greater movie. They could make these films even better if they cut the bad parts.

Yeah, 100%. I mean it's a kids movie, why even make it 2 hours long? They could've cut ALL the wedding stuff, the sisters cringey stuff and the dumb Deputy's stuff and it still would've been like 1 hr 35, which is a perfectly serviceable length for what it is.

That end fight scene was great though. This movie feels like it was made by someone who really loved the games as a teenager.... and then some total hack who hasn't seen a good movie since 1986. If they could just get rid of the 2nd guy, we'd be golden.

Some of the animation was so shoddy, with stilted dialogue, I got a real vibe that a bunch of scenes probably had dialogue rewrites added in later. So it feels stilted because it's a bunch of real actors speaking generic dialogue to a stuffed hedgehog dummy without context for what they're saying haha

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, 100%. I mean it's a kids movie, why even make it 2 hours long? They could've cut ALL the wedding stuff, the sisters cringey stuff and the dumb Deputy's stuff and it still would've been like 1 hr 35, which is a perfectly serviceable length for what it is.

If you're going to keep Wade here, at least tell him to check in on the dog! I was worried about the dog!

That end fight scene was great though. This movie feels like it was made by someone who really loved the games as a teenager.... and then some total hack who hasn't seen a good movie since 1986. If they could just get rid of the 2nd guy, we'd be golden.

I think that's partly because Jeff Fowler was so inexperienced coming onto this franchise. Dude never made an actual feature before until Sonic. Case in point, the fight over Sonic's design int he first film. Paramount had to be fought to prove that it didn't work.

Some of the animation was so shoddy, with stilted dialogue, I got a real vibe that a bunch of scenes probably had dialogue rewrites added in later. So it feels stilted because it's a bunch of real actors speaking generic dialogue to a stuffed hedgehog dummy without context for what they're saying haha

Well like that Siberian pub scene. It's like a scene out of a live-action Scooby-Doo or Alvin in the Chipmunks movie. Why do they want to throw them into the fire? They see like living anthropomorphic alien creatures and want to throw them into the fire? Oh let's have a dance contest now. It's ridiculous.

I can forgive Sonic being goofy and having a party at his home because he's a kid home alone and a teenager. In the 90s, Sonic was sort of all about being that teen with an attitude thing.

 

[Persona]

I know that stuff isn't for everyone but my theater ate up those scenes. I kind of look at it like the movie has a lot--too much--for everyone, and some people are gonna like some parts better than others. Obviously fans and kids want as much Sonic as possible but I noticed a lot of the adults in my theater who had brought their kids seemed to respond to the wedding/human stuff more than you might think.

I think most people would agree that the movie could be shorter and certainly there were moments and scenes that felt like they would have been cut if this had been the first movie rather than the sequel that's almost guaranteed to succeed. I don't think this is a Sonic-specific problem, a lot of modern blockbusters (most Marvel movies, for instance) seem to just leave everything in when really a lot of material should have been bonus cut scenes on the home release.

All that said, it was still a really enjoyable movie overall. My kids adored it and my theater as a whole seemed to love it. It's interesting in how they have successfully made these movies to have very broad appeal while also having very Sonic-specific appeal. I guess in that way it's kind of like the MCU, too. And as someone who isn't a huge Marvel fan but has been a Sonic fan since a kid, this is kind of like my MCU. A more kid-oriented MCU, which is great for me because I have young kids who love Sonic, too.

 

[The Caped Knight]

This film had something for everyone and that is an impressive achievement in its self. As a huge Sonic fan, I appreciated all the nods, references and homages to the games. I’ve seen it 3x and the theaters have been full with families, the kids liked all the action and adventure, while the adults laughed at the human side plot and even the 90s pop culture jokes and references. Meanwhile the Sonic fans cheered every time a very cool homage to the game appeared.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Well like that Siberian pub scene. It's like a scene out of a live-action Scooby-Doo or Alvin in the Chipmunks movie. Why do they want to throw them into the fire? They see like living anthropomorphic alien creatures and want to throw them into the fire? Oh let's have a dance contest now. It's ridiculous.

Yeah, not to mention it was basically a rehash of the bar scene from Sonic 1.

 

[TheVileOne]

I know that stuff isn't for everyone but my theater ate up those scenes. I kind of look at it like the movie has a lot--too much--for everyone, and some people are gonna like some parts better than others. Obviously fans and kids want as much Sonic as possible but I noticed a lot of the adults in my theater who had brought their kids seemed to respond to the wedding/human stuff more than you might think.

I think most people would agree that the movie could be shorter and certainly there were moments and scenes that felt like they would have been cut if this had been the first movie rather than the sequel that's almost guaranteed to succeed. I don't think this is a Sonic-specific problem, a lot of modern blockbusters (most Marvel movies, for instance) seem to just leave everything in when really a lot of material should have been bonus cut scenes on the home release.

All that said, it was still a really enjoyable movie overall. My kids adored it and my theater as a whole seemed to love it. It's interesting in how they have successfully made these movies to have very broad appeal while also having very Sonic-specific appeal. I guess in that way it's kind of like the MCU, too. And as someone who isn't a huge Marvel fan but has been a Sonic fan since a kid, this is kind of like my MCU. A more kid-oriented MCU, which is great for me because I have young kids who love Sonic, too.

Sure, but kids ate up Alvin and the Chipmunks as well. I'm simply talking about striving for greatness with these films and not playing to lowest common denominator and low hanging fruit for easy cheap laughs.

 

[The Big G]

I liked the dance scene. It reminded me of the dance off in White Chicks XD

Again I like Tom, Maddie and Agent Stone. Wade could have been cut. I do think they could have integrated the GUN twist better.

Im excited for Sonic 3

Spoiler

Super Sonic vs Super Shadow is going to be the closest thing we ever get to a good live action DBZ movie

 

[Karelia]

I liked the dance scene. It reminded me of the dance off in White Chicks XD

Im excited for Sonic 3

Spoiler

Super Sonic vs Super Shadow is going to be the closest thing we ever get to a good live action DBZ movie

Dude, I may lose it a bit if/when that happens.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I liked the dance scene. It reminded me of the dance off in White Chicks XD

Again I like Tom, Maddie and Agent Stone. Wade could have been cut. I do think they could have integrated the GUN twist better.

Im excited for Sonic 3

Spoiler

Super Sonic vs Super Shadow is going to be the closest thing we ever get to a good live action DBZ movie

Would be epic if that happens.