The Amazing Spider-Man "SPIDER-MAN 4 Production on Indefinite Hold "....NOT!...or Maybe?

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Venom which is in every way superior to Spider-Man asking Sandman for help in his only battle with Spidey;

Raimi realized what the comics guys don't. That Venom can't be superior to Spidey in every way. Eddie Brock is a normal human fueled by the symbiote. Eventually, like someone hyped up by drugs, his body would burn-out. He'd have a heart attack.

And moreover, Venom's superiority was only based on Spidey being written to be a wimp and a moron. With every other villain Spidey finds the way to defeat them, either via his fighting ability or his science genius. But Venom he merely accepts that he can't beat him. Tra-la-la. This despite the fact that he knows Venom's weaknesses and could likely find other vulnerabilities. On top of that Spidey is supposed to be pledged to never let a criminal, not to mention a killer, roam free but Venom he lets go.
 
If the police are a threat against the Lizard, that makes him even less of a threat then Kraven facing off against the Lizard.The reason why Spidey is needed is because his villains run circles around the cops most of the time. Peter would be more afraid of the cops getting killed. He would of course try to save civilians, but then the only real threat is the time limit. Peter needs an obstacle to prevent him from reaching that time limit. With Kraven in play, it becomes more then just a matter of just reaching the Lizard and trying to change him back to Connors. Kraven would really raise the stakes.

Not at all. A platoon of SWAT officers using heavy weapons (The only thing that can pierce the Lizard's hide) is a whole helluva lot more threatening than Kraven. And who's to say that they can succeed? But they'd keep going after the Lizard, using heavier and heavier artillery, threatening to eventually kill him not to mention doing great damage and even threatening innocent lives. There could be a SWAT Captain that becomes so obsessed with taking the Lizard down that he becomes as much of a threat. And Spidey would have to try and stop it.

Jonah and the authorities really would not cover that. You need a William Dafoe or someone like that to ooze menace. Baker would play the sympathetic villain, but an evil threat creates a better balance. And I personally always felt a more raging Lizard is more scary then a talkative and planning Lizard. The Lizard is interesting to me mostly because it's Connors underneath. Kraven is interesting just in his dynamic as a villain and character.

Kraven is just a nut. He should be used in a story where he's going after SPIDEY (Who we know was his obsession in the comics) not The Lizard. And focus on Connors/Lizard like a Jekyll-Hyde conflict is plenty. And i said nothing about a "talkative-planning" Lizard. He should speak, but not be running off long sililoquies. He should be raw power causing great destruction. In the face of that Kraven and his bag of tricks wouldn't stand out. And like i said, there could be a cop character that would be so driven to stop the Lizard, that he himself becomes a danger to both the public and even those in his command.

But you just said that they should have points where he's only partially the Lizard to show Connor is struggling. If Connor is able to fight the beast within that alone makes the Lizzard not unstoppable. These feel like very contradictory positions.

I said Connors would be fighting from within. But of course the Lizard would be winning the battle. So Connors wouldn't be stopping the Lizard. But his struggle would add both sympathy to his story without making THE LIZARD sympathetic. and give it a dramatic element.

And like it was mentioned, Kraven isn't a pushover. Just because Kraven can get close doesn't mean Spider-Man automatically can.

Of course it does. Spider-Man is more powerful than Kraven on all levels. Look at EVERY FIGHT between Spidey and Kraven. "Last Hunt" is the only story where it took Spidey more than one issue to defeat Kraven. And only because Kraven staged an elaborate trap using many henchmen and Spidey was written to be an idiot ("A GUN????" :whatever: ). In ASM #47 Kraven merely escaped and in ASM !03 & 104 Spidey and Kraven don't even fight.

So to have Kraven get close to the Lizard with his not being nearly as fast or as agile makes it a foregone conclusion that Spidey could get to him. Spidey can dodge bullets. Kraven can't.

Especially since Kraven is more likely to use his traps and skills to get close, not anything Spider-Man has available. Not to mention Spider-Man will probably have been injured or worn out after a fight with Kraven. They always milk worn out Peter in these movies anyway, and it would be even more intense if Spider-Man is half dead after fighting against Kraven and has to go against a fully transformed and recovered Lizard.

So Spidey, who has defeated superhuman threats like Goblin, Ock, Sandman and Venom gets "worn-out" fighting a guy with no powers? Not believable.
 
Raimi realized what the comics guys don't. That Venom can't be superior to Spidey in every way. Eddie Brock is a normal human fueled by the symbiote. Eventually, like someone hyped up by drugs, his body would burn-out. He'd have a heart attack.

And moreover, Venom's superiority was only based on Spidey being written to be a wimp and a moron. With every other villain Spidey finds the way to defeat them, either via his fighting ability or his science genius. But Venom he merely accepts that he can't beat him. Tra-la-la. This despite the fact that he knows Venom's weaknesses and could likely find other vulnerabilities. On top of that Spidey is supposed to be pledged to never let a criminal, not to mention a killer, roam free but Venom he lets go.

Bravo! Well said :applaud
 
Why are people saying Kraven doesn't have powers, he too has super strength, speed and agility. Maybe not on Spider-Man's level, but has always had them. Oh, and Spider-Man can't dodge bullets, he's not the damn Flash.
 
I agree that adding Kraven as a secondary villain with the Lizard as the primary story could prove to be a very compelling story. The only thing I worry about is how Kraven the character would come off on the big screen.
You should worry about how any villain in the hands of Raimi & Company comes off on the big screen.

But I agree Kraven would compliment and complicate the life of The Lizard and Spider-Man, more so than the life of Peter Parker--and we need more Spider-Man (and what's going on inside of his head) in these films. The thought of having a villain who is willing to use any weapon and all of his powers to hunt down and try to kill Spider-Man, just to prove to himself to be his better is intriguing to me. Especially the crazed animalistic type villain.

Simplify his wardrobe to a stock brown short leather coat, a thick dark wool collar (two vague eye patches on either side of the coat), flesh colored shirt underneath, black pants and boots, and a goatee style beard. There you have a character who isn't even noticeable as a costumed villain. Which means, he can blend into the crowd whenever he wants to. A perfect secondary villain to The Lizard.

TheLIZARDandKRAVEN.jpg
 
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Man, we really do need more of Spidey's thoughts. But it frustrates me to consider Raimi handling that.. because of one little scene in Spider-man 3, where he wakes up hanging upside down in the black suit. Those lines... ugh..

I mean, as if the symbiote and Venom weren't handled vaguely and inappropriately enough in that film, we got like ZERO insight into Peter's thoughts from those lines in that scene, the one time that really stood out as a thought-filled kind of moment, to the point where he might as well have just said 'Cool! Woo-hoo!' and that's it. :o
 
Hmmm,

I'm thinking Raimi kind of knew this hate was going to come his way eventually.

After all:

"Green Goblin: Well, to each his own. I chose my path, you chose the way of the hero. And they found you amusing for a while, the people of this city. But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you. Why bother?"

Probably one of the best lines and the most motivated sense of purpose for a villain. Why accept the responsibility? it's dog eat dog.
 
©KAW;17866059 said:
Ha-ha...so true...a director with vision is what we need and a visionary's touch.


Yes, everything is better with a visionary's touch. I will definitely bang that trashcan lid in agreement.

And welcome to boards. :up: We need posters with more insights like yours. :cwink:
 
©KAW;17865888 said:


a no brainer for a slam dunk hit but ooooh no, we're going to get the lamearse vulture instead. groan...
 
©KAW;17865669 said:
Why are people saying Kraven doesn't have powers, he too has super strength, speed and agility. Maybe not on Spider-Man's level, but has always had them. Oh, and Spider-Man can't dodge bullets, he's not the damn Flash.

It's funny how many Kraven fans don't know much about him. He has no super powers. He uses elixirs to enhance his strength (Just say no to drugs). And it's nothing by comparison to Spidey's strength.

And really? Spidey can't dodge bullets? So what was he doing in Sidey 2 when the guy in the car was shooting at him? Getting hit?
 
And really? Spidey can't dodge bullets? So what was he doing in Sidey 2 when the guy in the car was shooting at him? Getting hit?

Or when the burglar shot at him in SM-1.
 
The elixirs enhance all his physical capabilities and enhance them to the point he can survive a physical confrontation with Spider-Man.

Regardless of that, Spider-Man has always been as strong as the villains required. Doctor Octopus has no superhuman endurance in the movies but he was still conscious after being punched in the face repeatedly by Spider-Man in S2.
 
Doctor Octopus has no superhuman endurance in the movies but he was still conscious after being punched in the face repeatedly by Spider-Man in S2.

Ock had A.I. wired into his brain and central nervous system. That could easily keep him from losing consciousness.
 
So I guess Ock had a Titanium Skull, and skin like the Thing to keep from getting bruised or his face bashed in from the hits by Spider-Man then, or Spidey was really pulling his punches.

I know I tried to rationalize that Octavius was buffered by the artificial intelligence chip and the tentacles, working together as a shock asorber when battling Spidey (that with Spidey pulling punches AND a big dose of OK, we have to have some leeway here for sake of making interesting fights).

Just pointing this out because I hate how in most scenes Raimi has "powered down" Spidey from the comics. For example, in battling Ock. Where other times (limited), he has shown that Spidey is powerful enough to stop a Locomotive... errrr.. Subway Train (sorry.. had a superman flashback there). :woot:

On a side note along the same lines, as others have also pointed out, I HATED that we did not really get any explanation of the enhanced powers that the symbiote gave Peter.

Or, how Venom could evade Spidey's Spider-Sense, but HECK, Spider-Sense was MIA in SM3 as it was. :down:
 
Is the rumours true? Theyre killing off MJ and replacing her with the Vultress as Petes main love interest?
 
Ock had A.I. wired into his brain and central nervous system. That could easily keep him from losing consciousness.
Very true, and that's the most logical reason, if you ask me. ANother possiblity is that SPidey could have been pulling his punches.
 
SPOILER ALERT: DUNST IS 'WRITTEN OUT OF SPIDER-MAN FRANCHISE'KIRSTEN DUNST will be written out of the SPIDER-MAN movie series after the next installment and replaced as the franchise's leading lady by ANNE HATHAWAY - according to U.S. reports.The actress has played Mary-Jane - Spider-Man/Peter Parker's red-headed love interest - in three movies to date, and has signed to reprise her role in Spider-Man 4, which is scheduled to begin shooting next year (10). But insiders tell Star magazine Dunst's character will be written out in the next movie. A source says, "The plan is for her character to be written out, probably by dying. "Anne will take over as Peter Parker's new love interest for this project and for Spider-Man 5 and 6 which are being written now. "Anne's in L.A. doing a lot of meetings on the movie, because filming is right around the corner."
 
Is the rumours true? Theyre killing off MJ and replacing her with the Vultress as Petes main love interest?

This Vultress thing has to be a rumor.
But the scary thing is, prior to Spiderman 3, there were also rumors about Sandman being uncle Ben's killer, ninja snowboarder goblin, and Topher Grace being Venom. People refused to believe that because they sounded too sumb, but guess what, they all turned out to be true.
 
And 60 foot tall Sandman + Venom in final battle was rumored before SM3 came out, and again... True. Unfortunately.

Now, I could REALLY get behind this death of Kirsten/MJ rumor. :woot:

OK, kidding aside, no I could not, because they have blown that opportunity since they have killed off the Goblin Line, and the death of the girl Peter loves is their (Osborn) Legacy.

Although... Lizard killin MJ.. hmmmm.
 
Maybe the Vulture kills Peter's girlfriend in Raimi's vision, since he so loves the villain.
I still think these are all rumors.
 
In a way I hope that's true. After SM3 I really don't like this version of MJ. She can leave, but keep the Vultress crap out.
 
Raimi realized what the comics guys don't. That Venom can't be superior to Spidey in every way. Eddie Brock is a normal human fueled by the symbiote. Eventually, like someone hyped up by drugs, his body would burn-out. He'd have a heart attack.

I like your way of thinking. Logical and intelligent.
Would be really pleased if Raimi really thought of that and that he realized something, which I doubt.
But I think that Venom's advertisement for the film wasn't justified in the end. The general public, once heard that Venom will be in part 3, saw him as Spidey's ultimate villain, not to mention the all out annoying talk about part 3 to be the last film, Venom should have been the hardest challenge... and yet he disappointed.
 
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