The Amazing Spider-Man "SPIDER-MAN 4 Production on Indefinite Hold "....NOT!...or Maybe?

[zeptron]

I agree. Say what you want about Raimi's version, but Cameron's was absolute crap. It was WAY off base. The biggest offenders was Sandman and Electro not being Flint Marko and Max Dillion.

 

[©KAW]

James Cameron is a great director, a visionary if you will. But he doesn't understand the inner workings of Spider-Man. Although a phenomenal Spider-Man film can come from him, if he's not the writer of the script, and his ego won't allow that to happen. As he proclaimed he now doesn't want to direct other people's heroes, yet, his next film may be Battle Angel Alita created by Yukito Kishiro...someone else's hero. Go figure.

 

[sauronthegreat]

But that script was written in the 90's. Back then the superhero genre was nothing like it is today. I believe Cameron could come up with much more appropriate version today. But I would like him more for an X-Men franchise.

 

[Deaths Head II]

Cameron would probably be more appropriate for X-Men I think.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Or Superman.

 

[Milu]

sam raimi sucks he's ruined my favorite childhood character a reboot with james cameron at the helm can't come soon enough

You're . . . you're not serious are you? Raimi's interperetation of Spidey might have its deviations, but at least it didn't completely miss the mark like Cameron's treatment.

It should be a crime to bash Raimi and then recommend Cameron for Spider-Man in the same sentence.

I love Cameron but his concept for Spider-Man was trash.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Dragon]

Doc Ock four friends didn't keep Spidey from landing multiple blows to his face on the clock tower.

Which brings us back to the A.I.

Even when we finally get The Lizard, unlike Ock and GG, he won't be alone. My fear is them picking the wrong secondary villain if The Lizard is the villain. My gut feeling is telling me The Lizard and Black Cat.

There's nothing to suggest he won't be alone. He can certainly carry a story on his own, as he has in the comics. And even if there is a second villain, making that villain (whoever it may be) hunt the Lizard is the wrong way to go.

The greatest threat in that cartoon is probably Tombstone, who slapped Spidey eye to eye, which is why I see why you don't like the show. No ones a threat if you half ass the writing. I don't like any of the A-Listers in that toon.

That's not why I don't like the show. I think the characters, especially Peter, are poorly written. The show has its good points and the crew goes into heavy detailing that is a good thing. But the execution is off. Too many silly contrivances to keep it soap -operaish.

Yes, a saving grace for Raimi & Sony's pockets. But for the audience at large, it wasn't worth trying to be saved with over blown CGI. It needed a great script. These so called great visuals that you seek did absolutely nothing to save that film.

To YOU. And based on how popular the film is, you're absolutely in the minority there. Alot of you guys bashing this film are going off onto a crazy tangent. Simply because you don't like it, you assume this means the film is bad. Spidey 3 isn't like films such as Daredevil or The Hulk where the script is just poorly structured. Spidey 3 certainly has many problems, but there are some great things about it as well. That you dislike most of what's there is simply you not liking it. None of the Spidey films have been what I think a Spidey movie should be. But I can at lest say they've been entertaining.

Yes, that's what I said about SM3, The Lizard will definitely be in this one, and most likely by himself sense it worked better for the other two films. Yet, I'm still waiting. We'll see, after everyone thought that Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer was a rumor, I'm not putting anything pass Raimi & Friends...this includes The Vulture, Sony not wanting The Lizard because we wouldn't see Connors' face (which is why we have a maskless Spider-Man running around in every flick) and his daughter Vultress or Vulturette or whomever.

And that's my point. That the Lizard can certainly carry his own film. He doesn't need additional villains. What Sony ultimately does is Hollywood business. And as I'd mentioned, The LIzard can at points be only partially transformed, so you could see Connors face, albeit mutated to some degree.

Yeah, let's call upon the A.I. tentacles when things don't make sense, Doc Ock should be in a comma after being hit by Spider-Man, now you wanna play pulling punches.

I guess you've never actually read Spider-Man comics. He's pulled his punches since the beginning. Ock isn't Spidey's only vulnerable foe. Yet he's never put anyone into a comma, has he? Spidey is not a murderer. He's generous to a fault when it comes to not hurting his enemies. If you don't know this, you don't know the character at all.

But with Kraven, who has superhuman strength gets punched (who's endurance is much greater than that of Ock's), I get no deal.

Read the comics. Kraven's strength isn't enough. Ock has always been presented as the greater threat.

Come on, I'm good for it. Ock shouldn't be able to lift heavy objects in the comics (for nearly 50 years) because the weight of huge objects would crush his lower body, yet, he does it like he has super strength. And I'll debate Spider-Man being able to dodge bullets like an Agent from The Matrix, as well. What's continuity if it make no sense in occurrence to the character's powers. Should he start flying too.

You're not seriously trying to make complete sense of comic books, are you? There is being realistic, and being believable. Kraven lifting two tons simply because he's juiced on some jungle herbs isn't realistic either. The human body simply isn't structured in a way to bear such stress. But we accept it because its believable for the Marvel universe.

Okay, so he's The Flash...I get you.

Call it what you want.

Yeah, okay, how fast was Spidey when the Goblin gassed him at the Daily Bugle. Where was this swift movement you speak of? Not as fast as dodging a bullet then, the fool was gassed and falling to his death. And The Goblin gassed him slower than the crawl of a newborn.

I didn't like that scene either. There should have been more action to set Spidey up for the gassing. Oh well.

The swiftness of Ock's tentacles should have blocked all of Spidey's blows during the clock tower fight. Yeah, his tentacles react at the speed of thought, eh, what was Ock thinking...I want to get punched multiple times in the face?

This is getting silly. They want the fights to look exciting. So Spidey gets hit. They don't want Spidey killed, so he can dodge bullets. If you need your hand held rhrough every second of these movies, then you shouldn't be watching them. And none of this changes the fact that Kraven isn't a suitable villain to be taking on both Spidey and The Lizard. It's more far-fetched than anything you're griping about.

Sandman's abilities has nothing to do with speed at all, the guy is pretty much indestructible. He's actually, the toughest Spider-Man villain to beat in these films, but don't tell that to a Doc Ock or Green Goblin fan, they'll bring up the vacuum cleaner.

I agree that he's the toughest to beat. Thus why Spidey didn't actually beat him. But he's not indestructible. He can still feel pain, even in Sand form. And speed is a factor in his powers. If he can't react quickly enough he can do the transformations.

Yes, we all know Venom, whom you also said Spider-Man was written like a total dumbass when he kicks Spidey's ass. Now, it's Kraven. You wanna just make a list of the villains that you don't think should ever kick Spider-Man's ass in the comics.

I said Spidey should be able to find a way to beat Venom. Not that Venom shouldn't be able to give Spidey a tough time. My problem is the way Spidey is usually written to lay down for Venom, rather than doing what he'd always done, which is look for a solution. Now certainly during the era when KLH happened and Venom was created, there was a concerted effort to make Spidey constantly look like a wuss. It was a lazy way of keeping villains appearing to be dangerous.

 

[JackMercy]

Cameron would probably be more appropriate for X-Men I think.

He flirted with that years back as well.

 

[Carlo Comicus]

I love the Spider-Man script by Ted Newsom.

 

[spider-neil]

I love cameron but his script for spider-man was awful.

spidey says mother*******
spidey has sex with MJ on the brooklyn bridge (in costume)
organic webshooters - thanks for giving sam the idea jim
electro as the kingpin (also he isnt max dillion) with sandman as a henchmen

actually if cameron wanted to take spidey on, I could live with that as I'll always have SM1 and SM2

 

[Adrian89]

I love cameron but his script for spider-man was awful.

spidey says mother*******
spidey has sex with MJ on the brooklyn bridge (in costume)
organic webshooters - thanks for giving sam the idea jim
electro as the kingpin (also he isnt max dillion) with sandman as a henchmen

actually if cameron wanted to take spidey on, I could live with that as I'll always have SM1 and SM2

Sounds so f**ked up! I never read that whole script, I don't care about it. Cameron is a good director, but his vision of Spider-Man is FAIL haha!

However the idea with organic webbing was good, I'm glad that Raimi didn't went with the web shooters in his movies! Very glad!

 

[©KAW]

Which brings us back to the A.I.

Yes, it brings us back to the fact that Ock's tentacles are not as fast as Spider-Man. So what good are they, if Spider-Man can reach his face and knock him out whenever he wants, where's the threat?

There's nothing to suggest he won't be alone. He can certainly carry a story on his own, as he has in the comics. And even if there is a second villain, making that villain (whoever it may be) hunt the Lizard is the wrong way to go.

Sony is already on record saying that they're will be TWO villains in SM4.

Yes, The Lizard can carry his own movie, and I wouldn't mind that at all. But I'm basing putting Kraven in, because they mentioned TWO villains, not one.

That's not why I don't like the show. I think the characters, especially Peter, are poorly written. The show has its good points and the crew goes into heavy detailing that is a good thing. But the execution is off. Too many silly contrivances to keep it soap -operaish.

Ironic, that borderlines how I feel about the films. With the toon, it's just nothing new, same Lizard story, same Mysterio story, villains being created in a factory like ice-cream pops. Spider-Man's world is so small in that cartoon, it's like they all live in a box. Not to mention, the characters looking like Rug Rats.

To YOU. And based on how popular the film is, you're absolutely in the minority there. Alot of you guys bashing this film are going off onto a crazy tangent. Simply because you don't like it, you assume this means the film is bad. Spidey 3 isn't like films such as Daredevil or The Hulk where the script is just poorly structured. Spidey 3 certainly has many problems, but there are some great things about it as well. That you dislike most of what's there is simply you not liking it. None of the Spidey films have been what I think a Spidey movie should be. But I can at lest say they've been entertaining.

TO ME, you say? Look around in various forums, fans and non-fans alike were just pointing out their dislike for the film, not going on a crazy tangent. Bashing comes with the territory, especially with comic book films (and their sequels), a director has to be on his toes in this genre or get devoured. Plus, the negativity usually came from those who expressed liking either SM1 or SM2 or both...it was fair game.

SM3 was Spider-Man with his most popular villain, Venom, of course it's gonna be popular.

And that's my point. That the Lizard can certainly carry his own film. He doesn't need additional villains. What Sony ultimately does is Hollywood business. And as I'd mentioned, The LIzard can at points be only partially transformed, so you could see Connors face, albeit mutated to some degree.

Great, now that we've both accomplished that The Lizard can carry his own movie. Let's talk about that additional villain, because he won't be by himself. If Sony changes their mind, great.

I guess you've never actually read Spider-Man comics. He's pulled his punches since the beginning. Ock isn't Spidey's only vulnerable foe. Yet he's never put anyone into a comma, has he? Spidey is not a murderer. He's generous to a fault when it comes to not hurting his enemies. If you don't know this, you don't know the character at all.

Yes, I'm aware of this, which is why I mentioned him pulling punches for Kraven, as well. It seems to always happen anyway.

Read the comics. Kraven's strength isn't enough. Ock has always been presented as the greater threat.

Obviously, Doc Ock's tentacles are not enough either.

Yes, Ock is presented as the greater threat in the comics, true. But when you put Doc Ock on film, not so much. We find out how flawed that idea is, when his tentacles are too slow to fully protect himself against Spidey.

You're not seriously trying to make complete sense of comic books, are you? There is being realistic, and being believable. Kraven lifting two tons simply because he's juiced on some jungle herbs isn't realistic either. The human body simply isn't structured in a way to bear such stress. But we accept it because its believable for the Marvel universe.

Kraven will be no more believable/realistic than a guy inhaling green gas that gives him superhuman strength.

Hey, I'm only pointing out that Doc Ock has to be AMPed up with superhuman strength (both comics & film) in order to be a threat, his tentacles alone are not enough.

I didn't like that scene either. There should have been more action to set Spidey up for the gassing. Oh well.

Yeah, now imagine it being a GUN.

This is getting silly. They want the fights to look exciting. So Spidey gets hit. They don't want Spidey killed, so he can dodge bullets. If you need your hand held rhrough every second of these movies, then you shouldn't be watching them. And none of this changes the fact that Kraven isn't a suitable villain to be taking on both Spidey and The Lizard. It's more far-fetched than anything you're griping about.

Temper, temper. Now you're getting it. Most likely, if they do put Kraven in the movie, he's going have about the same strength and speed as Spider-Man (it's a given they'll fight) regardless--and they'll do it to make the fights look cool and exciting. They're not going have a measuring stick of superhuman strength, speed and agility with these two once Kraven gets his powers. Personally, I don't mind Spidey being stronger and faster than Kraven, I'd prefer it.

Who said I wanted Kraven to hunt both Spidey and The Lizard, I want him to hunt Spidey because it lends itself closer to the comics and KLH? Not to mention, Kraven would think that the greater challenge is Spider-Man.

I agree that he's the toughest to beat. Thus why Spidey didn't actually beat him. But he's not indestructible. He can still feel pain, even in Sand form. And speed is a factor in his powers. If he can't react quickly enough he can do the transformations.

Fair enough. But we agree he's tougher to beat than GG or Ock (two A-List villains).

I said Spidey should be able to find a way to beat Venom. Not that Venom shouldn't be able to give Spidey a tough time. My problem is the way Spidey is usually written to lay down for Venom, rather than doing what he'd always done, which is look for a solution. Now certainly during the era when KLH happened and Venom was created, there was a concerted effort to make Spidey constantly look like a wuss. It was a lazy way of keeping villains appearing to be dangerous.

Wait a minute, Venom is stronger and faster than Spider-Man, just as you pointed out with Kraven/Spidey (and I agree), but like you said with Kraven, doesn't this mean that Spider-Man isn't a threat to Venom.

Now it's about solutions I see. You want Spidey to find other ways to take down this dangerous big ol' meany. So it's lazy writing and makes Spidey look like a wuss, when someone else is stronger and faster than him.

Why can't Kraven find a solution to beat Spidey--any damn way he feels (he is a villain) and being the hunter that he is. There are always other ways to take your down your opponent, to this I agree, and you don't always have to like how it's done.

 

[Oscorp]

I love cameron but his script for spider-man was awful.

spidey says mother*******
spidey has sex with MJ on the brooklyn bridge (in costume)
organic webshooters - thanks for giving sam the idea jim
electro as the kingpin (also he isnt max dillion) with sandman as a henchmen

actually if cameron wanted to take spidey on, I could live with that as I'll always have SM1 and SM2

I don't get why people still dislike that idea. I mean, of course it's a matter of opinion, but I've never seen why that is such a big fault for some people. However, I still think Peter should have developed web-shooters to make him able to focus and control the web better. This is to show his intelligence and inventional skills.

EDIT: Stan 'the man' Lee himself said that he prefered organic webs over his original idea, and said that he thought "Why didn't I think of that?".

 

[Venom160]

I love cameron but his script for spider-man was awful.

spidey says mother*******
spidey has sex with MJ on the brooklyn bridge (in costume)
organic webshooters - thanks for giving sam the idea jim
electro as the kingpin (also he isnt max dillion) with sandman as a henchmen

actually if cameron wanted to take spidey on, I could live with that as I'll always have SM1 and SM2

yeah that script was god awful. I stopped reading it the moment Spidey webs MJ to the Brooklyn Bridge and screws her. Thank goodness that piece of crap was never made.

 

[SpideyTheBest]

The great thing about webshooters is that whenever he is fighting a super villain and he runs out of webbing, he sometimes have to change web cartridges, sometimes he doesn't even have more of them so he can't swing at all. It makes the fights a little more exciting you know.

And, I haven't read the Ultimate comics but I remember reading somewhere that Peter's father was working on some kind of glue or something and that Peter continued and completed his research and used it as his webbing.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Or Superman.

Yeah, I'd say he'd be more fit for Superman than for X-Men.

 

[Adrian89]

The great thing about webshooters is that whenever he is fighting a super villain and he runs out of webbing, he sometimes have to change web cartridges, sometimes he doesn't even have more of them so he can't swing at all. It makes the fights a little more exciting you know.

It's a matter of different oppinions, but I don't like to see that at all! Besides, what's a Spider without being able to shoot web?!?

And don't come to me and tell me Stan Lee wanted to show Peter's intelligence by creating web shooters! He didn't had to strip him off that ability of having organic webbing! His intelligence was shown way too many times, quite enough times, even in battles and so on. The idea with the organic webbing is the one and ONLY idea that I like from Cameron. And I'm glad Raimi went for organic webbing in his movies, as I've stated before.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I don't get why people still dislike that idea. I mean, of course it's a matter of opinion, but I've never seen why that is such a big fault for some people. However, I still think Peter should have developed web-shooters to make him able to focus and control the web better. This is to show his intelligence and inventional skills.

EDIT: Stan 'the man' Lee himself said that he prefered organic webs over his original idea, and said that he thought "Why didn't I think of that?".

The way I heard it, Stan did initially have Peter with organic web shooters but the Comics Code wouldnt allow it. So he went with mechanical web shooters, instead. I heard this way back when SM1 was being made so I have no idea where the info came from.

 

[TheSlag]

Personally I do not have that big of an issue with the Organic Web Shooters vs. the Mechs. (Whoa.. Major Flashback to the Great Mechs vs. Organic Range Warfare threads of 2002 t

But if I had my preferences, I would of picked Mechs.

With Mechs, it would of showed off more of Peter's intelligence in building/designing the web shooters and the solution. I thoroughly enjoyed that aspect of Spider-Man 1 with Peter both discovering and refining his powers, as well as his work in designing his costume. I think it would of been great to see in short scenes (like with the costume), Peter working on the design of both the web shooters and the webbing itself. We could of also seen the progression from early prototypes that did not work out, to the final models.

That said, yes it would of really been pushing the believability meter. Where Peter would come up with the money/time to build such things? They could of tied it in to ESU, and late night sessions (break into facilities, etc.) to do the work and acquire the tools/materials he needed. But that would of still been pushing the limit, and would of taken some time to develop that story line, time that could of probably better gone elsewhere.

My other reason for preferring the Mechs over the Organics is it make me as a kid growing up reading Spider-Man, feel like I could a) buy/beg/borrow/steal, or even develop my own Web Shooters, and Heck.. Then I could swing like Spidey! Where I would of not been so willing to be bit by a genetically altered Spider, physical change, etc.

And lastly, I like the Mechs because as SpideytheBest pointed out, I enjoyed the aspects of Spider-Man running out (or running low) of webbing at crucial times, either in battle or swing, and having to improvise, I still think they could (and should) carry over this aspect to the Organics, say where Peter is totally stressed or really taking a beat down, his Organic webbing starts to fail him (kinda like in SM2), but moreso in battles, and NOT because of ALL about ONE girl causing it.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

I don't get why people still dislike that idea. I mean, of course it's a matter of opinion, but I've never seen why that is such a big fault for some people. However, I still think Peter should have developed web-shooters to make him able to focus and control the web better. This is to show his intelligence and inventional skills.

EDIT: Stan 'the man' Lee himself said that he prefered organic webs over his original idea, and said that he thought "Why didn't I think of that?".

 

[©KAW]

Stan Lee can't say anything bad about anything in the Spider-Man movies. I don't really listen to him when he talks about any Marvel movie. That dude's under contract.

 

[Spider-Ranger]

I still got the feeling that this film will be postponed and that its running time will be a little over 100 mins... if not less than 100 mins...

 

[zeptron]

I still got the feeling that this film will be postponed and that its running time will be a little over 100 mins... if not less than 100 mins...

This is Sony. Not Fox.

 

[bullets]

I still got the feeling that this film will be postponed and that its running time will be a little over 100 mins... if not less than 100 mins...

That's random

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I still got the feeling that this film will be postponed and that its running time will be a little over 100 mins... if not less than 100 mins...

If you ask me, that's REALLY doubtful.