The Amazing Spider-Man "SPIDER-MAN 4 Production on Indefinite Hold "....NOT!...or Maybe?

[night0205]

Idk, and personally I don't know if I believe any rumors, until they become fact. If there is one thing I've learned about Superhero Fans, is you can't believe what you hear until it's confirmed. I think we are just going to have to wait and see.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I normally am skeptical on rumors, but this rumor is being widely reported and fills in a lot of holes in other rumors that were being reported. Thus, I believe it.

I hope Sony allows Raimi to do the movie his way (he's earned it by this point), but if they don't, I really hope he walks out on them and sets this franchise back several years. SM3 taught Raimi something, and it is good to see him standing up for his story. Perhaps needing to spend more time and money on getting a new cast/crew and a possible reboot will teach Sony a valuable lesson as well

 

[Frodo]

Well I dont see the Vulture at "grasping".

You dont know what he had planned for the character.

I would prefer Lizard and Kraven and then Electro. But Vulture doesnt have me thinking its the end of the franchise.

Its his opinion. Obviously not one the studio shares... but if history has shown anything,its tha the studio suits are idiots who really know very little about the properties they own or how to handle them.

Which is why youre supposed to hire great creative teams, then stay the hell out of their way while they do what you hired them to do.

There are villans who work and those who don't, and imo no amount of writing can make Vulture look good at least in live action. Sandman was barely made it and even then he was paper thin . Yeah Vulture works in a comic book and a cartoon, but in live action? I've yet to see an arguement that convinces me that the Vulture would be a good villan for Spiderman 4 even with John Malcovich or Ben Kingsley cast, let alone as the sole villan.

 

[conan69]

"Dude, everyone WANTED VENOM"

This is simply not true. Alot of older fans didnt want Venom - they know the classic villians and even Vulture falls into that category. How many great villians have been introduced in the comics in the past 20 years? If you asked people on the street who Carnage is most wouldnt have a clue who youre talking about. They know the Green Goblin, Sandman and Doc Ock.

Spiderman has a large "older" audience. And guys who took their kids to see Spiderman 1 & 2 simply dont care about Venom the ways the younger crowds do. Im talkigng about people who read the comics back in the day.Spiderman is a character non comic books fans are aware of and know about. The amount of people who read the comics is really small when you take into consideration the general public. Most people out there dont know who Venom is. The younger crowd does from the late 80s-90s comics and the cartoons.

Same way the general older audience knows Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, but wouldnt have a clue who Bane, Ventruiloquist or Victor Zsasz is.

"There are villans who work and those who don't, and imo no amount of writing can make Vulture look good at least in live action....etc.etc"

I understand you argument but simply disagree with it. Were not talking about yellow spandex here. Look at the concept art. I dont see why Vulture couldnt work.

Again theres more than what will look good here and we dont know what was planned for the character storywise.

Guys I want Kraven and The Lizard too.

I would pick Electro for SM5. Will Electro work on film? Will he have a mask. How silly will that look? You once again now have ANOTHER character who gets his powers from technology gone wrong.

Someone on the imdb wrote this.......

"What can he do besides flying?"

"From Wikipedia: "Utilizing his harness, the Vulture is able to fly as if by natural winged flight. He wears a costume of synthetic stretch fabric housing a tailored electromagnetic harness with bird-like wings attached beneath the arms. This consists of an electromagnetic anti-graviton generator worn on his body as a harness enabling him to fly silently with precise maneuverability. The harness also increases his resistance to injury to the point that he can survive blows from Spider-Man's enhanced strength despite his age. Another by-product of his exposure to the harness is that despite his age and lack of exercise, his physical strength represents the upper limit of human development. When he removes the harness some of his enhanced abilities slowly fade, although the rate at which this transpires remains unclear (some writers have suggested that his strength is permanent). The Vulture is elderly and depends on his electromagnetic harness to augment his strength, vitality, and athletic prowess as well as absorbing life force to maintain his vitality.

The Vulture is intellectually brilliant in the fields of electronics and mechanical engineering, with a great talent for invention. He has earned a Master of Science degree in electrical engineering."

A strong, smart, injury resistant, guy who can fly with precision. Oh, I'm sure there's nothing that Raimi could possibly do with that. I mean, it may not be the best villain, but if Raimi wants to use him, I'm all for that. You may not like Vulture, but he is a classic villain and I have no problem with having him in a movie."



..... and I agree with him.

It sounds more interesting to me than a Peter Parker/Black Cat romance angle. PP doesnt have Bruce Waynes psychology. I think the next batman will have Riddler and Catwoman. The reason why Catwoman can and will work is the moral dilema she represents for Bruce Wayne. Have Bruce Wayner fall in love with someone whos morals and ethics are the complete opposite from Rachels(the person who helped him become Batman).

Give me a solid STORY. Thats where SPiderman 3 fails. If Raimi wants to use Vulture, let him.

eidt:Actually if he REALLY wants Lizard, the studio should **** let him do the job they hired him to do. If Raimi walks and another director comes in what villian would he choose to use I wonder. You only have a few left that can really work, are interesting, known by the general public, and can carry a film - Lizard, Kraven, Electro maybe Chameleon or Mysterio (who would require DRASTIC costume changes).

 

[kguillou]

I dont know about the whole "People don't know who venom is" thing dude. I would argue that Venom is arguably more well known than the green goblin to the general public. Dude, Venom was a HUGE breakout villain when he debuted and for a while Venom was pretty much Spidey's #1 arch nemesis. He was the anti-Spiderman and he was the only one who knew all of Peter's secrets at the time. It wasnt till Norman was brought back in the comics during the whole clone saga that the Green Goblin solidified his place as Spidey's arch enemy. But i would bet that if you asked the average joe who venom was, they would definitely know about him. People DID want venom for the third movie. Its as much our fault as it is Sony's for putting pressure on Raimi to put venom in the movie. Let's all be honest here, we WANTED venom in the 3rd movie, it would've been the perfect way to close out Sam's trilogy...if he had done it right.

 

[conan69]

"I would argue that Venom is arguably more well known than the green goblin to the general public. "

I know and worked with people who went to see Spiderman that hadent read a comic book in 20 or 30 years.

"Dude, Venom was a HUGE breakout villain when he debuted and for a while Venom was pretty much Spidey's #1 arch nemesis. He was the anti-Spiderman and he was the only one who knew all of Peter's secrets at the time. "

To a certain age group. That doesnt include the mid30 - 50whatevers who saw the film. Theyll know the classic villians. They wont know Venom. Do you have any idea how big the Spiderman cartoon was in the 70s? I do. You might be suprised how many 40+ year old men out there who havent read a comic book since the late 70s, could sing the "spiderman spiderman, does whatever a spider can song"

"It wasnt till Norman was brought back in the comics during the whole clone saga that the Green Goblin solidified his place as Spidey's arch enemy."

Complete and total ********. GG was always considered Spidermans nemesis #1 - going back to the 60s and 70s. Venom may be number 1 to a younger crowds - because they read the book at a different time - when Goblin was long gone. Im 40. I read I think 2 or 3 Spiderman issues with Venom, and I read comics later than most guys since I wanted to get into the business(went to Kuberts in 89). I had friends who read comics, more casual fans often reading and enjoying mine, and had given up on them long before Venom came around. To the general older audience out there, I still say Venom wasnt really known.

 

[Brimay]

"Dude, everyone WANTED VENOM"


venom is on my worst villians list, so i think you can imagine how much i want him in a spiderman movie.


To tell you guys the truth i am on the lizard only list, but if raimi can turn spiderman 4 to how well 1 and 2 were then i don't care if he uses the vulture.

He has 5 great villians to use(preferabely the lizard)

The lizard
Mysterio
Electro
Kraven
vulture

Hell, even the enforcers.

I'm sure sam and sony can choose one or two.

 

[night0205]

You're right, It was a fallacy for me to say EVERYONE wanted venom. I guess you couldn't get my sarcasm. MOST people wanted venom, and a very small percentage didn't. Sam Raimi unfortunately was apart of that small percentage. I am a firm believer in a strong story, and I don't think a villain makes the story, but I think it effects the story. And Spider-man 4 is only going to be as good as the material that they use, and the material that Vulture has, isn't good enough. So, no, I don't want vulture for Spider-man 4 as the main villain.

 

[Brimay]

You're right, It was a fallacy for me to say EVERYONE wanted venom. I guess you couldn't get my sarcasm. MOST people wanted venom, and a very small percentage didn't. Sam Raimi unfortunately was apart of that small percentage. I am a firm believer in a strong story, and I don't think a villain makes the story, but I think it effects the story. And Spider-man 4 is only going to be as good as the material that they use, and the material that Vulture has, isn't good enough. So, no, I don't want vulture for Spider-man 4 as the main villain.

And this is why the lizard is usually the obvious choice.
As someone else said. curt gets his arm back, introduce family, peter working with curt, great fight scenes, not to much cgi and effects to rely on so writing a better story gets the upper hand(pen is mighter then the sword lol??)and so on..ect..ect..
And does'nt have to be in that order.

 

[conan69]

Night I wasnt picking on you.

Its just that I saw that quote alot over the years - everyone wants Venom. I think a certain age group wanted him - but not everyone.

I used to see stuff like this said in the Xmen threads years ago (my join date says 2005 but I was here under a different name way before then). I remember the agruements everywhere about Anna being cast as Rogue. "Rogue is supposed to be a sexy southern belle". Well I dont remember Rogue being a sexy southern belle. I remember her looking like Steve Martins carnival motorcycle riding punk gilfriend from The Jerk.

Im just saying that you need to keep in mind that peoples ideas of these characters will change drastically from age group to age group. Especially as some of these characters are 4 decades old.

 

[night0205]

Lizard should be the main villain, they have held back long enough. Everything fits, he is connected to Peter, he's a worthy foe, he's got a tragic story. Then, just like they did with Spider-man 2, they can have Peter's other story going on at the same time, with whatever happening in his life. I would love to see Black Cat as well, if done right.

 

[Brimay]

Lizard should be the main villain, they have held back long enough. Everything fits, he is connected to Peter, he's a worthy foe, he's got a tragic story. Then, just like they did with Spider-man 2, they can have Peter's other story going on at the same time, with whatever happening in his life. I would love to see Black Cat as well, if done right.

Anyone except the black cat.

 

[batdude]

I'd maybe use Vulture as the opening villian,like the Bond films do, Lizard as the main one, and maybe Black Cat as a side Dushku/Biel type character.

 

[spider-neil]

at this point the only thing that will get me excited for SM4 is lizard, anything else and I'll be indifferent.

for the record I never wanted venom, horrible 1 dimensional, 1 note villian.

 

[spider-neil]

you should never do movies by commity but it would be interesting if sony had an internet poll of spidey villians (not already used) with the winner appearing in SM4

 

[zeptron]

I'd say Carnage is the 1 dimensional, 1 note villain. All he does is kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. That's it. Nothing more to the character. While Venom actually has a motivation for hating Spider-man.

you should never do movies by commity but it would be interesting if sony had an internet poll of spidey villians (not already used) with the winner appearing in SM4

But Carnage would probably end up winning because a whole bunch of 13-14 year old would probably come across it and vote for him because "he looks cool and is brutal."

 

[night0205]

The black cat character that The Spectacular Spider-man presented, was good to me. I don't know what she's like in the comics. But she's basically what Catwoman is to Batman.

 

[spider-neil]

But Carnage would probably end up winning because a whole bunch of 13-14 year old would probably come across it and vote for him because "he looks cool and is brutal."

so why isn't carnage winning the spidey villian poll on SHH which is a microcosm of spidey fans?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Because luckily, the Hype isn't full of idiots. There are some idiots, but amazingly, they are the minority.

You got over to HeroHQ forums and see the love for symbiotes over there. Those guys are stuck in the 90s, when y'know, Marvel nearly went bankrupt because of it's "artistic" direction.

 

[spider-neil]

from sony's point of view they see nothing wrong with interfering because the last time they did they the studio had the biggest hit of the spidey franchise. I think they are in a false sense of security because I think a large portion of that success was down to the frankly BRILLIANT SM2 rather than the inclusion of venom. I certainly didn't go to see SM3 because venom was in the movie.

 

[spider-neil]

Because luckily, the Hype isn't full of idiots. There are some idiots, but amazingly, they are the minority.

You got over to HeroHQ forums and see the love for symbiotes over there. Those guys are stuck in the 90s, when y'know, Marvel nearly went bankrupt because of it's "artistic" direction.

I don't see the appeal for venom and carnage. seriously, I don't see the appeal. am I missing something here? even in the 90's spidey cartoon (which I loved) and the SSM cartoon (which I adore) the venom/carnage episodes were the weakest of the series.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't mind Venom. I think he has potential. Like I've said before, you develop Brock more, you give him real reasons to suddenly turn into a nut case and hate Parker so much he wants him dead, Venom automatically becomes a better, more interesting villain.

Carnage? Yea he's just a shallow EXTREME 90's creation that looks cool. But, he also has potential. If they did a character study of Cletus Kasady, show why he is a ****ing nut case who loves killing, I think it'd be interesting. Someone like Charlie Huston could do something really good with Carnage I think. Doubt it would happen though. If he comes back it wouldn't be for a deep character study, it would be just as a end boss for a Spidey event or something.

 

[spider-neil]

I don't mind Venom. I think he has potential. Like I've said before, you develop Brock more, you give him real reasons to suddenly turn into a nut case and hate Parker so much he wants him dead, Venom automatically becomes a better, more interesting villain.

Carnage? Yea he's just a shallow EXTREME 90's creation that looks cool. But, he also has potential. If they did a character study of Cletus Kasady, show why he is a ****ing nut case who loves killing, I think it'd be interesting. Someone like Charlie Huston could do something really good with Carnage I think. Doubt it would happen though. If he comes back it wouldn't be for a deep character study, it would be just as a end boss for a Spidey event or something.

in regards to venom, same went on record to say he disliked venom, went on record to say he liked silver age villians and sony STILL forced the character on him. I remember reading the news venom was going to be in SM3 and being really surprised sam had relented on his initial feelings.

as for carnage, that would signal the end of the franchise much like bance signaled the end of the bat franchise (until the reboot).

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Bane is a good villain though. They just turned him into a mindless goon.

In comics there isn't really any bad characters, they can just be written terribly. All characters have some amount of potential if given to the right writers.

 

[spider-neil]

Bane is a good villain though. They just turned him into a mindless goon.

In comics there isn't really any bad characters, they can just be written terribly. All characters have some amount of potential if given to the right writers.

good quote that I've had before, 'there are no bad villians just bad writers'

that maybe true but some villians have a head start on others.