Spider-Man: Pre-Brand New Day or Post-Brand New Day?

[JewishHobbit]

They could have... but I think Marvel (as well as the readers) have always enjoyed the trials & tribulations that is Peter Parker's love life and its effect on his being Spider-Man...

You're steriotyping. YOU'VE always enjoyed the tirals and tribulations of Peter's love life, but obviously it's on an individual basis. Peter overcame that time in his life, and while he and MJ had their ups and downs, he finally managed to overcome that. I was happy to see that happen myself. That was a part of Spidey's past and it's a regression to have returned to it.

Even Marvel's First Couple, Reed & Sue, have had their troubles over the years with Sue having a "thing" with Namor from time to time... so when Pete & MJ got married in 1987, would we be so surprised to see MJ perhaps have an affair? If reading comics have taught me anything, is that nothing lasts forever...

Is this really your mindset on relationships? If it is then I pity you. I've known more people who have remained true through their years than have had affairs. We've all had arguments and such, but that's it. Monday will be 8 years married, 10 years together with my wife and we've never so much as considered anything like that and we have no desire to. And they even touched on that subject with MJ back in the 90's and they overcame it and moved on. God forbid Marvel actually teach its readers (and the young readers they hope to pick up) that a marraige should be respected

Besides, if Sue wants to bang Namor, and Cyclops wants to bang Emma, and Jean wants to bang Wolverine, and Gwen wants to bang Norman, why does Peter and MJ have to join the "I Can't hold these hormones back anymore!" steriotype? Isn't this supposed to be the relatable, responsible book? Believe it or not, some people are happy in a relationship.. why not portray that in this book?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I was always one of those people that wanted peter and mj to have a child. It was the logical next step and i thought it would have been interesting seeing peter juggle being a father and crime fighting. But i understand that maybe marvel's not ready for their flagship character to carrying s knapsack just yet.

I was the same way too. I was excited about the new baby and it would have timed pretty close to when I had my first child. I was mad when they backed out.

But, I have learned to let that go, because once a kid is involved, you then have to worry about he/she aging. Not sure how they handle Franklin Richards.

I've known more people who have remained true through their years than have had affairs. We've all had arguments and such, but that's it. Monday will be 8 years married, 10 years together with my wife and we've never so much as considered anything like that and we have no desire to. And they even touched on that subject with MJ back in the 90's and they overcame it and moved on. God forbid Marvel actually teach its readers (and the young readers they hope to pick up) that a marraige should be respected

Besides, if Sue wants to bang Namor, and Cyclops wants to bang Emma, and Jean wants to bang Wolverine, and Gwen wants to bang Norman, why does Peter and MJ have to join the "I Can't hold these hormones back anymore!" steriotype? Isn't this supposed to be the relatable, responsible book? Believe it or not, some people are happy in a relationship.. why not portray that in this book?

Agree with you right there! Same thing with me, and I have been married 19 years and with my wife around 24 years!

 

[Themanofbat]

You're steriotyping. YOU'VE always enjoyed the tirals and tribulations of Peter's love life, but obviously it's on an individual basis. Peter overcame that time in his life, and while he and MJ had their ups and downs, he finally managed to overcome that. I was happy to see that happen myself. That was a part of Spidey's past and it's a regression to have returned to it.

How am I stereotyping?

I said "I think"... which would imply that I'm speculating... doesn't necessarily mean that my opinion is fact.

Geez... get a grip.

Is this really your mindset on relationships? If it is then I pity you. I've known more people who have remained true through their years than have had affairs. We've all had arguments and such, but that's it. Monday will be 8 years married, 10 years together with my wife and we've never so much as considered anything like that and we have no desire to. And they even touched on that subject with MJ back in the 90's and they overcame it and moved on. God forbid Marvel actually teach its readers (and the young readers they hope to pick up) that a marraige should be respected

Besides, if Sue wants to bang Namor, and Cyclops wants to bang Emma, and Jean wants to bang Wolverine, and Gwen wants to bang Norman, why does Peter and MJ have to join the "I Can't hold these hormones back anymore!" steriotype? Isn't this supposed to be the relatable, responsible book? Believe it or not, some people are happy in a relationship.. why not portray that in this book?

Of course this is not my opinion on marriage and relationships... but I can manage to SEPARATE reality from fiction... which is what the saga of the Marvel Universe as well as Spider-Man is... a never-ending story of fiction... and like most soap-operas, which was the foundation to Marvel's early success, the writers create these "problems" to stir the pot... otherwise, you're reading the same old stuff every week...

I can't believe your bringing these comments about my personal life to the table... we are talking about a never-ending story of a fictional character.

Again... get a grip.
You're being nonsensical.

 

[JewishHobbit]

How am I stereotyping?

I said "I think"... which would imply that I'm speculating... doesn't necessarily mean that my opinion is fact.

Geez... get a grip.

Adding "I think" doesn't mean you're speculating, or at least it doesn't always translate that way on the screen, and it didn't there for me. My apologies in that at least.

Of course this is not my opinion on marriage and relationships... but I can manage to SEPARATE reality from fiction... which is what the saga of the Marvel Universe as well as Spider-Man is... a never-ending story of fiction... and like most soap-operas, which was the foundation to Marvel's early success, the writers create these "problems" to stir the pot... otherwise, you're reading the same old stuff every week...

Well, if you have all those others I mentioned having affairs, and others besides them. Mentioning it with Spidey and MJ would just be the same old same old again, wouldn't it? In fact, it'd be new to actually have a marraige WORK in the Marvel Universe. I mean, we have Reed and Sue right? The only other marraiges of decent size and importants that is still going strong is Luke & Jessica and Storm & Black Panther, but those are both still fairly new.

Peter and MJ - Erased and Retconned
Cyclops and Madelyne Pryor - Wife deserted
Cyclops and Jean - Affairs leading to Death
Johnny Storm and Alicia Masters - Skrulled
Hawkeye and Mockingbird - Skrulled and Retconned
Daredevil and Milla - Insanity leading to Divorce
Hulk and Cierara- Wife died
Quicksilver and Crystal - Affairs leading to Divorce
Rick Jones and Marlo - Not sure but now Divorced


And the thing with the whole Separate reality from fiction, you don't see me talking about this stuff with any other book do you? It's because the whole reason for Marvel's doing this, according to them, is that Peter Parker being married and married to a model isn't relatable. They want Peter relatable to the normal reader, and so that requires a bit of realism. Therefor, there needs to be situations and scenerios that are realistic, so when people talk about affairs and deals with devils and regressions, well that takes away from the realism for me. So that's why I focus on it a bit more with Spider-Man. Because honestly, if it wasn't for this stupid quest to make Spider-Man more relatable, he'd actually BE more relatable without all the extra stuff.

And fyi, soap operas are dying away these days. Maybe Marvel should consider this the next time they crap all over Spidey's history to make it more soap operaish.

I can't believe your bringing these comments about my personal life to the table... we are talking about a never-ending story of a fictional character.

Again... get a grip.
You're being nonsensical.

Buddy, stop being so sensative. That post in no way brought your personal life into it. The only time I bring personal issues in is when I mention how it's the older generation who can't let go of Spidey from the 70's/80's... and that's only because I do firmly believe that is the reason for several people's clinging to the BND status, not all, but some. The things you've mentioned above being personal wasn't intended at all and you're reading way too much into it.

 

[Themanofbat]

I am the sensitive type...

According to Marvel canon, Peter & MJ still had a lengthy relationship that recently ended (right after the Back in Black story)... there was even an issue during BND where Spidey reflects on MJ and mentions that she was the girl that he wanted to marry, indicating that MJ ended it... I suppose we'll see... and at the end of OMD, MJ states that if their love is so special that the "devil" would want it from "god", then it'll ultimately be strong enough for them to find each other again... which I have little to no doubt that Marvel will have them as a couple once more... just not a married one... which might please the MJ/Peter fans... I guess we'll see about that.

Cheers...

Mike

 

[JewishHobbit]

I am the sensitive type...

According to Marvel canon, Peter & MJ still had a lengthy relationship that recently ended (right after the Back in Black story)... there was even an issue during BND where Spidey reflects on MJ and mentions that she was the girl that he wanted to marry, indicating that MJ ended it... I suppose we'll see... and at the end of OMD, MJ states that if their love is so special that the "devil" would want it from "god", then it'll ultimately be strong enough for them to find each other again... which I have little to no doubt that Marvel will have them as a couple once more... just not a married one... which might please the MJ/Peter fans... I guess we'll see about that.

Cheers...

Mike

Nah. Marriage means more to me than that. If they're together, just go and have their marriage fixed. There's no point in not doing that. Them dating and not being married is still a regression. I want character development moving forward. Regression is a story and character killer for me. There's nothing in it.

 

[Artistsean]

Its like I was thinking, they will eventually have them get back together despite the devil trying to keep them apart.

Imagine it this way. MJ and Peter don't remember that they were married. To them they have been single for a long time since their traumatic break up. Then suddenly, possibly because their love broke the spell or something or because the devil did it on purpose because he was mad, suddenly all their memories rush back to both Peter and MJ. Suddenly they both remember the marriage, they remember them almost having a baby, they remember Peter revealing his identity, they remember Aunt May getting shot, and all that. Then they suddenly realize that their lives aren't what they thought. And maybe everyone else doesn't remember, nothing else has changed around them. So to everyone else they never got married.
So I could understand that Peter and MJ would want to take it slow.
Especially MJ since she still remembers why she called it off and maybe feels like she has more to think over.
Sure, some of it was my own ideas.

Just a side note, I was thinking. I don't know if it matters for me buying the comic. But I might be able to relate more to a single Peter than a married Peter since I am not married. But then again, I was a huge Spider-Man fan before any of this Brand New Day stuff.
But I can just relate more to being single I guess.

I was talking about this with a friend the other day, I am not sure about how they have shown Peter in the comics lately though. Sleeping around, getting drunk and waking up with his roommate, stuff like that.
I don't think Peter would ever do that, I don't see him sleeping with anyone unless they were in a long term committed relationship, and I don't think he would allow himself to ever get drunk no matter what.
Because the moment he gets drunk, something bad could happen, and he would blame himself.

I actually haven't read all about this stuff, just the Aunt May wedding issue. But I have heard about it from the friend I was talking to.

 

[Themanofbat]

He got drunk on ONE glass of champagne (similar to his getting drunk on a glass of spiked punch back in Web #38), and he ended up sleeping with his roomate...

 

[runawayboulder]

He got drunk on ONE glass of champagne (similar to his getting drunk on a glass of spiked punch back in Web #38), and he ended up sleeping with his roomate...

It was actually apple cider.......which is even gayer.

 

[iloveclones]

Thank God my time machine actually worked and deposited me in 2008. I was beginning to think I'd be stuck in the present forever.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I thought I heard somewhere on here that he wasn't even drunk but just pretended for whatever reason?

 

[SpideyInATree]

I thought I heard somewhere on here that he wasn't even drunk but just pretended for whatever reason?

It was apple cider but he really thought it was champagne. Even though physically he wasn't drunk, mentally, he was telling himself he was.

Stupid explanation. I preferred the original Peter Parker just got plastered at his Aunt's wedding and nailed his roommate. If I were single, drunk, and lived with a girl roommate and we were both drunk I would say we would have done the horizontal mambo.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. And these writers get paid for this?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

My two cents.

I've read most of the pre-BND stuff (like almost 90% except for the odd uncollected issue here and there which Essentials should shortly take care of) and maybe half of the BND stuff. While I think some of the stories had a lot of potential during BND, the execution left a lot to be desired. Especially in the characterizations. Peter has been de-evolved to an extent that he's almost unrecognizable.

These kinda stories COULD have been told without retconning everything. Sure, we couldn't have the "love life" stories, but frankly, they've been lame and further out of Peter's character. Especially Black Cat, who lost ALL of the development she's had in the last couple decades.

I read these books and I cringe every time. It doesn't have the same feel, and the characters are not what they should be. I was a fan of the Clone Saga, which is when I started reading Spidey regularly. I've read what came before, and read what came after. While after Chapter One Spidey lost the pizazz till JMS came on, and then again halfway through his run, I've never been tempted to drop the book. Once BND happened, that was my last straw and I haven't regretted it yet.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Thank God my time machine actually worked and deposited me in 2008. I was beginning to think I'd be stuck in the present forever.

Come on, 'clones. Don't you like reminiscing like this?

By the way, did you use a De Lorean or a Hot Tub?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Wow, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. And these writers get paid for this?

I think the writers saw readers in an uproar because Pete got drunk. So they switched it to cider.

But, ironically, that made the situation worse. Besides, I think the uproar was about the hook-up more than the drunk thing.

 

[runawayboulder]

I think the writers saw readers in an uproar because Pete got drunk. So they switched it to cider.

But, ironically, that made the situation worse. Besides, I think the uproar was about the hook-up more than the drunk thing.

We're our own worst enemy as Spidey-fans sometimes. When did Pete become Mother Theresa anyway?

 

[Artistsean]

Its not that, he isn't a saint or anything. Its just I don't see him allowing himself to get drunk. He fights a bad guy with a broken arm and fresh and bleeding bullet wounds because he knows that if the bad guy hurt or killed someone, even in his weakened state, he couldn't forgive himself for not going out there.
So why would he get drunk? Or drink? Because if he got drunk, even a little, it could impair his judgment or reflexes. Even if it didn't, and he was drunk, and a bad guy attacked and something happened like a person getting hurt, he wouldn't be able to forgive himself.
So I just don't see that happening.
Or its hard to believe that actually happening to him.

And without that its even harder to see Peter unknowingly sleeping with his roommate.

Thats all. It just seems like a situation that Peter wouldn't let himself get in because his sense of responsibility.

 

[Themanofbat]

I think the writers saw readers in an uproar because Pete got drunk. So they switched it to cider.

I don't think so, because less than 6 weeks went by between issues and the explanation, and if you take into account a week or two for the "uproar", then there really would be no time to get the issue "fixed" and sent to the printers, and then sent to the distributors, etc...

I'm not sure what kind of time frame is involved when an issue comes out and when it was sent to the printer, but I don't think personally that they had enough time...

 

[Themanofbat]

Its not that, he isn't a saint or anything. Its just I don't see him allowing himself to get drunk. He fights a bad guy with a broken arm and fresh and bleeding bullet wounds because he knows that if the bad guy hurt or killed someone, even in his weakened state, he couldn't forgive himself for not going out there.
So why would he get drunk? Or drink? Because if he got drunk, even a little, it could impair his judgment or reflexes. Even if it didn't, and he was drunk, and a bad guy attacked and something happened like a person getting hurt, he wouldn't be able to forgive himself.
So I just don't see that happening.
Or its hard to believe that actually happening to him.

Under normal circumstances, I would agree.

Even under not so normal circumstances, I would still agree.

However, in this case, his aunt has just gotten married and then his long time lover shows up unexpectedly and he doesn't know how to even approach her.

Anybody in this room who has experienced seeing an ex-lover unexpectedly knows how unnerving that can be... especially to someone who is already somewhat socially awkward, like Peter Parker.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I think the real problem is the fact Peter was DATE RAPED, and ended up the BAD GUY somehow. THAT was the real problem with the scenario, aside from Peter suddenly becoming loose enough to sleep around. A lot.

 

[Themanofbat]

I think the real problem is the fact Peter was DATE RAPED, and ended up the BAD GUY somehow. THAT was the real problem with the scenario, aside from Peter suddenly becoming loose enough to sleep around. A lot.

Really? Do people really think that kind of inane thoughts when they read their funny books?

****... I wish it could be 1975 again... at least comic book readers weren't so **** ing anal about the things they read...

 

[iloveclones]

Come on, 'clones. Don't you like reminiscing like this?

By the way, did you use a De Lorean or a Hot Tub?

DeLorean is THE gold standard. A Hot Tub? C'mon, that doesn't even make sense.


Besides, doesn't a bunch of middle aged guys sitting around in a hot tub make you uncomfortable?

 

[runawayboulder]

Here's a question. Was it morally wrong for me to exploit my knowledge of the future for personal financial gain? Perhaps. Here's another question. Do I give a f**k?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

MOB, was that even English?