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Spider-Man: Pre-Brand New Day or Post-Brand New Day?

Spider-Man: Pre-Brand New Day or Post-Brand New Day?

  • I liked Spider-Man Comics before Brand New Day

  • I like Spider-Man Comics after Brand New Day


Results are only viewable after voting.
Yes, whoever was in charge of editorial at that time was INCREDIBLY stupid if they thought that was gonna slide. I mean damn, marvel must have been desperate as hell to pull a move like that. There are still tons of plotholes which don't really make sense. I still don't buy the fact that peter was so easily convinced that he was a clone. It would take more than some shady, green werewolf to convince me that i wasnt real and my memories were fake.
 
Didn't he also just try to murder his wife lover girlfriend random redheaded stranger he happened to know at said green werewolf's command?
 
And wasn't there one issue where, now i could be wrong, god i hope im wrong, but wasn't there one issue of like Maximum Clonage or something, were peter actually killed like a bunch of people by unleashing a virus at the jackal's command? I remember reading that as a kid and being like "WHAT?".
 
Interesting Stan Lee quote

Nrama: They’re rebooting the Spider-Man movie franchise and taking him back to high school. Do you think Peter Parker as a character, works better as a teenager?

Lee: He works well depending on how well he’s written. Everything depends on the script. He could be fascinating as a teenager, discovering his powers. When I wrote him, in the early days, he was a teenager for a long time, for many, many issues. Finally, after a few years, we got a lot of fan mail saying, ‘hey, isn’t it about time he grew up?’ So I had him go out of high school and into college. Eventually, he graduated from college and got married, but ... a teenager with super powers. Certainly you can get a lot of great stories out of that premise.
 
And wasn't there one issue where, now i could be wrong, god i hope im wrong, but wasn't there one issue of like Maximum Clonage or something, were peter actually killed like a bunch of people by unleashing a virus at the jackal's command? I remember reading that as a kid and being like "WHAT?".

We're safe. That was the 3rd Spider-Clone that went on to become Spidercide... not Peter or Ben, or even Kaine.
 
Man... your panties are in a bunch today...

We obviously disagree on how the Spider-Books are... though I am not going to have the colossal balls and say that you are wrong (unlike yourself) whether I think that or not... it's opinion, and everyone has a right to have one... so please refrain yourself from telling me that I'm "wrong" when I don't believe that I am... because I give you that courtsey.

Never once in that quote did I say you were wrong when it came to opinion matters. The part I stated as wrong was your Beatles example, which was was very inaccurate and nothing like the OMD/BND situation. Apples and Oranges.

I'm not a fan of reboots, though I like the idea that Marvel is AT LEAST trying to tie up their continuity so as to not say that issues #293 to #541 did not happen. And I appreciate their efforts... the EASY thing to do would have been an obvious "crisis"... but they're at least trying to connect the continuity dots.... you can be such a big "drama queen" with dumb-ass comments like "Marvel blatantly went in and edited 20 GREAT years of Spider-Man history needlessly just because they wanted to.", but GUESS WHAT? It's THEIR character and they can do what they want with him. And this is what they want from their character... and your internet crybaby tears do NOT matter.

Okay, now who's trying to make it personal? I state opinions on what and why they screwed up with the character and you make it personal by throwing insults. Very mature Mr. Hipocrite.

As for the rest, I actually AM glad to see them trying to clean up the problems of OMD's continuity issues. And yes, it's their character but we the customers put money in their pocket to keep that character in publication. So when they make a manuever to effect not only the character but the continuity of the character, they should probably consider those of us who have been supporting them, not just a portion of us.

And please.... don't throw the "Waah, waah ,waaah... I grew up on a married Spider-Man so therefore, he must remain married forever and I hate that Marvel raped my favorite character blah, blah, blah ad nauseum".... GUESS WHAT? I grew up on a single Spider-Man. I'm so glad that I was mature enough to not have the same hissy fit that you're having about BND when ASM Annual #21 came out... sheesh....

Again with the hipocritical statements? Anyhow, why would you be upset at him getting married? While you may have grown up with him single, it was still progression of the character, not changing anything having to do with what you've read, and made sense (see previous posts on the previous Peter/MJ relation). Honestly, if the marriage was undone in a believable way through divorce or death I'd have had no problem with it. Spidey doesn't need to be married for me, but he needs to have been married through half of his printed history since, you know... HE WAS married.

And it's the "Beatles"... not the "Beetles"...

Eh, never cared for them anyway.

and it was not 20 great years... 20 mediocre years with very few exceptional gems... but guess what? That's opinion as well (the latter is... the former is factual), and there is no "right" nor "wrong".

Actually, you started this problem. I said great years, as I believe them to be. You came in and changed my opinion like it was wrong. That falls on you.

But you'll see it differently... because you're always right. :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

Drama Queen. :oldrazz:

:yay:

Things I'm right on...

1) You've hipocritically made personal jabs at me in this post when I've done nothing of the sort, despite your claims I have.

2) You first corrected my opinion that the married years were great, not the other way around.

3) The past 20 years HAVE been ruined because around half of Spidey's printed history (especially considering the number of issues due to various titles) now have to be read with one eye closed for them to make sense.


The rest is opinion... and that is a fact.
 
See, I liked that Ben Reilly was the one true Spider-Man. :o:o

The problem with that is you were telling loyal readers the Spider-Man they were reading for the past 20 years was a clone.

Not so much the I Am the Spider. It's just that they really drug that one along a bit too long. Plus that was a time where they were trying to make Peter Parker and Spider-Man "dark".

It was horribly out of character and was just done to capitalize on the "Dark Knight" feel of Batman at the time. If you've seen my other posts, I call this Spider-Man's "jumping the shark" point.

However, you forgot one mistake that, quite honestly, I think is much more offensive than One More Day, Sins past, and The Other combined. It's when they brought Aunt May back and were like, "Oh, that was just an actress who died in Amazing Spider-man # 400 and the real Aunt May was really being held captive by Norman Osborn. Just thought you'd like to know that and we'd like to make the super emotional and awesome Amazing Spider-Man # 400 mean absolutely nothing!!"

You're right I forgot to list that. It also teased us that it was Baby May that was being returned that some of us had hoped for. Until they got cold feet.

But, sorry, OMD is still the biggest worse moment for a number of reasons:

  • It was not an organic story, but an agenda driven by Joey Q to get rid of the marriage.
  • It's lazy way of "fixing" continuity. It's saying, "hey remember that marriage, let's pretend they just moved in together, ok?"
  • It is the worst storytelling. You set up a situation where Pete's id is known, Pete is a fugitive from the law, and Aunt May is dying and no one can help her. How will it be resolved? We don't. Just jump ahead 100 days and everything is fine. It is the worst deus ex machina. Or should I say diablo ex machina?
  • In two comics, published by Marvel, both Aunt May herself and God told Pete to let go.
  • They decided to throw their daughter May into it just to add salt to the wound.
  • And of course PETE MAKES A DEAL WITH MEPHISTO (AKA THE DEVIL).
 
The problem with that is you were telling loyal readers the Spider-Man they were reading for the past 20 years was a clone.

Yeah, even though I was in love with the Clone Saga, that part really ticked me off, and I'd only been reading for, what... 5 years at that point? The rest of the Clone Saga was a bit jaded for me until it was corrected in the end, then in hindsight I grew to love ALL of the Clone Saga. I still hate Ben's death because it also went against established continuity on the character (aka... Ben was the perfect clone that couldn't decompose) but that was a small thing.

But, sorry, OMD is still the biggest worse moment for a number of reasons:

  • It was not an organic story, but an agenda driven by Joey Q to get rid of the marriage.
  • It's lazy way of "fixing" continuity. It's saying, "hey remember that marriage, let's pretend they just moved in together, ok?"
  • It is the worst storytelling. You set up a situation where Pete's id is known, Pete is a fugitive from the law, and Aunt May is dying and no one can help her. How will it be resolved? We don't. Just jump ahead 100 days and everything is fine. It is the worst deus ex machina. Or should I say diablo ex machina?
  • In two comics, published by Marvel, both Aunt May herself and God told Pete to let go.
  • They decided to throw their daughter May into it just to add salt to the wound.
  • And of course PETE MAKES A DEAL WITH MEPHISTO (AKA THE DEVIL).

Beware... MoB will throw personal insults at you :p
 
That's in your opinion. First off, for me, at least 15 of those 20 years were great, on par or better than any of the 80's stuff I read and most of the 70's that I've read. (See my above comment about the I Am The Spider story)

Sorry, Hobby. As much as I tend to disagree with TMOB, I agree with him on this count. The post-Gwen/Ross Andru era of the 70's, and the Hobgoblin era of the 80's are my favorite eras (along with the classic 60's and the MacFarlane/Larsen era of the late 80's/early 90's).

Eh, never cared for them anyway.

uh, oh, strike two, Hobbit!


:oldrazz:

Kidding around, we usually agree.




But you are "wrong" about the Beatles. :cwink:
 
Yeah, even though I was in love with the Clone Saga, that part really ticked me off, and I'd only been reading for, what... 5 years at that point? The rest of the Clone Saga was a bit jaded for me until it was corrected in the end, then in hindsight I grew to love ALL of the Clone Saga. I still hate Ben's death because it also went against established continuity on the character (aka... Ben was the perfect clone that couldn't decompose) but that was a small thing.

I actually enjoyed the Clone Saga. Each week(!) would be a new chapter and I couldn't wait to find out what would happen next. It was when they tried to pull the switcheroo that I got mad (I was OMD mad back then!).


Beware... MoB will throw personal insults at you :p

Nah, TMOB & I get along although we disagree. Must be because we're both oldies! Plus, as much as he likes Brand New Day and the new direction, I don't think he has any love for OMD.
 
Sorry, Hobby. As much as I tend to disagree with TMOB, I agree with him on this count. The post-Gwen/Ross Andru era of the 70's, and the Hobgoblin era of the 80's are my favorite eras (along with the classic 60's and the MacFarlane/Larsen era of the late 80's/early 90's).

Opinions are granted, though I do agree that the Hobgoblin era was really good.

Nah, TMOB & I get along although we disagree.

We do too usually. I think his fart dust is getting clogged :oldrazz:
 
Man... your panties are in a bunch today...

We obviously disagree on how the Spider-Books are... though I am not going to have the colossal balls and say that you are wrong (unlike yourself) whether I think that or not... it's opinion, and everyone has a right to have one... so please refrain yourself from telling me that I'm "wrong" when I don't believe that I am... because I give you that courtsey.

I'm not a fan of reboots, though I like the idea that Marvel is AT LEAST trying to tie up their continuity so as to not say that issues #293 to #541 did not happen. And I appreciate their efforts... the EASY thing to do would have been an obvious "crisis"... but they're at least trying to connect the continuity dots.... you can be such a big "drama queen" with dumb-ass comments like "Marvel blatantly went in and edited 20 GREAT years of Spider-Man history needlessly just because they wanted to.", but GUESS WHAT? It's THEIR character and they can do what they want with him. And this is what they want from their character... and your internet crybaby tears do NOT matter.

And please.... don't throw the "Waah, waah ,waaah... I grew up on a married Spider-Man so therefore, he must remain married forever and I hate that Marvel raped my favorite character blah, blah, blah ad nauseum".... GUESS WHAT? I grew up on a single Spider-Man. I'm so glad that I was mature enough to not have the same hissy fit that you're having about BND when ASM Annual #21 came out... sheesh....

And it's the "Beatles"... not the "Beetles"... and it was not 20 great years... 20 mediocre years with very few exceptional gems... but guess what? That's opinion as well (the latter is... the former is factual), and there is no "right" nor "wrong".

But you'll see it differently... because you're always right. :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:

Drama Queen. :oldrazz:

:yay:

2m6v4ic.gif


:applaud
 
According to Marvel the past stories still happened. Which means Peter still had the clone saga and still had the Spider-Slayer stuff, still joined the Avengers, still was discovered by Aunt May, and still had to pretend to be other heroes like Prodigy or Hornet while proving Spider-Man was innocent in Identity Crisis.
Even the death of Harry happened. He is alive again, and pretending he went to Europe, maybe even thinks that. But Norman said that he did indeed die and came back in New Ways to Die.
Just some of it people don't remember, like Aunt May, and others were altered in their memories to take MJ out of them and leave a single Spider-Man.
So you can look at it as they were always married, just no one remembers it, they Think that Peter/Spider-Man was single
or
you can look at it was all the stories did happen, just put your thumb over MJ in those comics (in your memory, or in real life if you are re-reading them).
The Other is the one I think never happened, because suddenly MJ isn't part of it and Peter has none of those powers. No extra strength, no organic web shooters, nothing. So maybe that one never happened.

Originally Posted by SpideyInATree
In my statement I was merely busting chops too. I know that MJ and Peter had many, many years of feelings developing. That's something I was not denying. And, yes, Marvel really, really, really dropped the ball back in the day. They just married Peter when there was potential of years and years of stories with them engaged. Then do they marry or does the Spectre of Spider-Man rear it's ugly head into it?
I was responding to "out of the blue," and whereas you have been busting chops, others have brought that up -coughThemanofbatcough

But, yes, an engagement period could have had potential, which I was disappointed was not explored.
Perhaps they can have Peter and MJ get back together, still having strong feelings for one another and instead of rushing things, this time they take it much slower. Peter and MJ begins with dating and maybe after a while they can step it up to an engagement for a while, like even a year or more. Testing the waters, see how fans like that.
Maybe if the fans respond so well and the writers want to they can get them married again or maybe just keep them engaged for an undetermined amount of time.
So if they chose to have them back together, maybe this time they can draw it out more. They already have established that they were almost married, MJ pulled out and probably because she didn't know if she could handle being Mrs. Spider-Man. So maybe if they start dating again there is the apprehension on her part. And the uneasy feeling for both, knowing she already called it off once.
Peter could constantly be wondering about it, MJ could constantly be considering it or worried about what everyone thinks of her or something.
Her character has now become something that can supply some story ideas. Maybe Peter and MJ begin talking again, but not dating yet. She knows he is Spider-Man, and so Peter has her to talk to about that without worrying about their relationship. Sort of like Lana Lang.
Later, if they start dating, you have the plot idea about them dealing with their own apprehensions about getting back together.
Maybe even if they get engaged again, doesn't mean they are completely sure.
And say the writers decide to give Peter and MJ back their memories,
MJ remembers being happily married to Peter, but now the doubt has been planted. Is it real? Or did she really have those doubts, they are there now.

I would like to see MJ, for a while anyway become a character in Spider-Man that he can maybe talk to about being Spider-Man. She isn't someone who can cover for him, but he can talk to her about stuff.
It would be nice if he had that sort of support again, even if she isn't his wife.
 
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The problem with that is you were telling loyal readers the Spider-Man they were reading for the past 20 years was a clone.

Sometimes I think loyal readers are a little too loyal, and maybe need a little drink...
 
Are you advocating alcohol as a solution to life's troubles, clones? That's highly irresponsible of you. :nono:
 
A solution???!? Wait until your a bit older and around teenagers. You'll find that it's the ONLY solution.
 
I'm sure SonofBat is fine, don't worry. (But keep your stash just in case...)
 
Never once in that quote did I say you were wrong when it came to opinion matters. The part I stated as wrong was your Beatles example, which was was very inaccurate and nothing like the OMD/BND situation. Apples and Oranges.

Let's see... where shall I begin... howza'bout in this thread alone...
See below.

I just typed about a five paragraph response to this but opted to delete it. This statement is very assuming and wrong and my reply was very rude due to how mad you made me with your wrong assumptions, so I'll leave it be. I'll simply leave it at this... this is your opinion, but it is not accurate in the slightest.

And then we had this lovely gem...

I'm not one to call people's opinions wrong as they are entitled to them, but you are wrong here.

Look... I don't want to start crap... and maybe I was a tad personal in my last reply because of the continuing "JH's right, TMoB's wrong" thing that was happening.

It's evident that you're upset by the turn of events, and you're entitled to be upset... but some of us ARE enjoying the book, and it would be nice to have polite and civil conversations about the book without it turning into some useless fight... especially when it's with long-standing people that I have had the pleasure of chatting with over the years... (My Hype's 10th anniversary was in May :o )...

So I'm sorry if I got bent in my last post, but there was a build-up.... nonetheless, I could have been "cooler" with my response.

Cheers,

Mike

:yay:
 
OH, man...The Beatles are great! Now, when I was a young lad in the 80's, I didn't get what all the todo was about. But, when the new box set came out, I decided to give all the albums a try. How wrong I was! These albums really make today's music look like utter garbage. It's just that sometimes we go into something with a bit of a bias. (Kind of like how some X-Box 360 fans will rag on Playstation 3 fans, and vis versa.)

With not much great coming out in music for me, I find myself going back to yesterday. Simon and Garfunkel are kind of neat....but, still can't get into Grateful Dead.

..............................

Amazing how you can start any Spidey thread, and it's alive with activity for days on end. Of course, it's all the same old stuff...but, still fun to read. I also liked The Clone Saga, even though they'd sometimes throw something in that I didn't like. (Ben being the real Peter, as mentioned.) It was just cool that Marvel was taking a chance on such an epic storyline. Because of that, I don't think it was as appreciated as it should have been. (And, the recent mini that shoved the whole story into six issues does not do it justice.) It reminds me of how Lost and 24 became such hits...yet, some tv shows from the past that tried the same formula didn't work, like Twin Peaks and Murder One.

Still, the best years were the whole Hobgoblin time. We got some great storylines ... and great new characters introduced, like Cloak and Dagger. I was trying to remember when was the last time a comic was popular, because it was the first to introduce an exciting new villian or hero. The 80's and 90's had it all the time. (Oh, and before, of course.) Cloak and Dagger. Venom. Carnage. Cable. Bishop. Gambit. Kitty Pryde. War Machine. New Warriors. Now, any new character introduced is quickly forgotten or unused for long periods of time. (Like Gravity.)
 
I sure do enjoy TMOB's long history of direct personal attacks and flaming against other posters.

EDIT

1) I think we were both taking unfair jabs at one another, and I believe we will politely stop that. :yay:

Hahaha, also his history of telling laughably obvious lies to justify his behavior, mustn't forget that.
 
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As for the rest, I actually AM glad to see them trying to clean up the problems of OMD's continuity issues. And yes, it's their character but we the customers put money in their pocket to keep that character in publication. So when they make a manuever to effect not only the character but the continuity of the character, they should probably consider those of us who have been supporting them, not just a portion of us.

I think this is one of those situations where "you can't please all of the people all of the time".... because while you say that they should conisder the people who have been supporting them, the people who have been supporting them are both yourself and myself, and we obviously have a 180 degree feeling on the direction, yet we both love the character.

It's unfortunate, and I really feel for you (because I have had to witness lots of continuity changes to characters I've liked as well since 1975... Batman being one of the most notable ones). However, even though a LOT of Bat-Books that I've read in the 70's may or may not count anymore, it doesn't take away the enjoyment I got from reading them THEN & NOW. It's definitely a higher road to take to not get mad when you look at an older comic KNOWING that those stories are different because of what's happening NOW. I've done it. And even with Spider-Man... I gave Marvel the benifit of the doubt initially to explain the continuity, and even though some of the answers are "eye-rollers", at least it works within conitnuity... and that's what matters to me.

I hope you find that kind of peace for yourself one day with the characters that you obviously care for.

Again with the hipocritical statements? Anyhow, why would you be upset at him getting married? While you may have grown up with him single, it was still progression of the character, not changing anything having to do with what you've read, and made sense (see previous posts on the previous Peter/MJ relation). Honestly, if the marriage was undone in a believable way through divorce or death I'd have had no problem with it. Spidey doesn't need to be married for me, but he needs to have been married through half of his printed history since, you know... HE WAS married.

I really didn't care for the marriage right from the begining... and I love MJ. I thought it was cool that she knew his ID... though when you go back and read issues where you see Spidey interact with MJ, her reactions are not the ones of a person who knows it's Peter Parker behind that mask... which would be similar to your "now we have to be read them with one eye closed for them to make sense" reasoning.... retcons have a way of making those older issues "different". :csad:

However, I didn't see it as "progression"... I have always thought it was just a cheap publicity stunt to go along with Stan's idea to marry them in the comic strip... nothing more, nothing less.

Things I'm right on...

1) You've hipocritically made personal jabs at me in this post when I've done nothing of the sort, despite your claims I have.

2) You first corrected my opinion that the married years were great, not the other way around.

3) The past 20 years HAVE been ruined because around half of Spidey's printed history (especially considering the number of issues due to various titles) now have to be read with one eye closed for them to make sense.


The rest is opinion... and that is a fact.

1) I think we were both taking unfair jabs at one another, and I believe we will politely stop that. :yay:

2) Yes, I did correct it because it's all opinion.... what you thought was "great" was "mediocre" to me... neither one of us is right nor wrong. I am glad though that you were able to like these books better than I did.

3) Again, it's a subjective opinion. Because some of us believe that the last 20 years of Spider-Books have not been ruined... largely in part to Marvel's attempts to make them work within current continuity.

:yay:
 
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