Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 35

[Greens]

I did like the extra lines in the torture scene and the way Leto performed them. Too bad the movie went back to the purple filter right after.

 

[Herolee10]

Wow, if you told me that the animated Suicide Squad film that came out a few years ago would be considered a better film than the actual live action film an year ago, I would have said that you were crazy. Now...not so much.

 

[bapi]

No surprise. It was obvious Leto is a complete disaster, WB wanted a family-friendly/SJW-friendly movie/feminists-friendly movie and they just couldn't release some different cut because that would totally change storylines and relationships.

 

[bapi]

And honestly it's obvious Ayer didn't even see his 'own' movie.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Wow, if you told me that the animated Suicide Squad film that came out a few years ago would be considered a better film than the actual live action film an year ago, I would have said that you were crazy. Now...not so much.

Eh, that happens all the time with DC. Their animated stuff is king while their live action output is all over the place: Sometimes it's great, others time not so much.

 

[-JKR-]

I'm not disappointed, as I never got my hopes up to begin with. The studio would've never gone back and restored David Ayer's version (or something similar to it) after they've turned the movie upside down.
They made a concious decision to tinker with the movie's tone, and remove all darker elements and hints of the Joker abusing Harley (because people complained about Batman V Superman being dark).
An alternate cut would be almost a completely different version of Suicide Squad. Which we won't ever get, considering that this is a tentpole which belongs to a (sigh) 'cinematic universe,' and not Blade Runner.
Thank God I still found the movie enjoyable (even in its theatrical cut, with huge flaws and all).

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Damn shame. I'm in no rush to see this now. For all the stick Snyder gets, he would've given us a much better Joker and Harley.

 

[-JKR-]

Damn shame. I'm in no rush to see this now. For all the stick Snyder gets, he would've given us a much better Joker and Harley.

There's no way to judge what David Ayer would've done with the Joker/Harley relationship, as what he wrote and shot barely got into the movie, and in an alterated/truncated form.

You really think that having their abusive relationship in the movie (as planned, written and shot) wouldn't have improved their characters A LOT?

Studio meddling is to blame here. When fear-driven execs stick their fingers way too deep into the filmmaking machine, and start re-shaping the movie to make it 'four-quadrant-friendly' (= dumb them down), nothing good can come out of that.

I still fail to see how people blame David Ayer for what we ultimately got, when it's barely the movie he set out to make and was partly edited by a trailer company.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

I don't blame Ayer. Well, maybe for some questionable choices on the designs. I do believe, though, that with the minutes Joker got, Snyder would've made it work and give us a proper introduction, a taste of what's to come in future movies. And right now, people aren't really sure if they want to see more of this Joker. Look at Wonder Woman in BVS. She barely had any lines, but she made such a huge impression on audiences. BVS was trimmed badly, but the nature and tone of the film is still the same in both theatrical and extended cut. And if they planned SS to be dark/gritty as the Comic-Con trailer suggested, why did he allow it to become this generic music video with ****** editing and bad "trippy" filters ? He did say that the movie is "****ing hilarious", so maybe the Comic-Con trailer was the false advertisement all along. I too enjoyed the movie overall, but I don't really have any desire to watch it again soon. Unlike MOS, BVS and the whole DK trilogy.

 

[kguillou]

I think its pretty telling how radio silent Ayer has been since the release of this movie. Its pretty clear he's washed his hands of this whole thing. If his Netflix movie with Will Smith does well, he might just well end his relationship with WB.

 

[Knight-Tale]

I liked most of the new scenes(its mostly just additional dialogue)
Not a huge fan of the filters but if that's the version most people liked then they probably didn't want to lose it.

 

[Greens]

There's no way to judge what David Ayer would've done with the Joker/Harley relationship, as what he wrote and shot barely got into the movie, and in an alterated/truncated form.

You really think that having their abusive relationship in the movie (as planned, written and shot) wouldn't have improved their characters A LOT?

Studio meddling is to blame here. When fear-driven execs stick their fingers way too deep into the filmmaking machine, and start re-shaping the movie to make it 'four-quadrant-friendly' (= dumb them down), nothing good can come out of that.

I still fail to see how people blame David Ayer for what we ultimately got, when it's barely the movie he set out to make and was partly edited by a trailer company.

The studio and Ayer are both to blame. The studio for changing the film in post-production and not giving Ayer enough time to write a script, and Ayer for writing this story in the first place. It's not a good story, period. Plus, the dialogue that we did get isn't anything to write home about. Ayer is a great director and I like every single one of his films, but this just wasn't his project.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Ayer deserves good chunk of the blame too. Poor story and dialogue, weak and uninspired action, many scenes are just poorly filmed and don't work. Terrible take on the Joker. Overall the movie just reeks of "we didn't have a script and had to improvise".

 

[-JKR-]

Well, that's your opinion, because I don't have any problem with the movie's basic storyline and enjoyed (what shone thruogh of) David Ayer's take on the material. The second act, which was the one which was mostly left untouched by the studio, is my favorite part of the movie and there you can really see the potential and feel the John Carpenter-esque atmosphere.
Both the first act and the showdown were heavily butchered by the studio (the latter was reshot with quick rewrites by Geoff Johns, it seems). What the movie lacks is a proper set up (which we would've got if they hadn't cut down the June Moon/Rick Flag subplot and the Joker/Harley flashbacks to mere clips) and send off.

 

[Greens]

Right, you can see the POTENTIAL. That could have been interesting, but now it's just one long drawn out sequence of them walking around.

 

[-JKR-]

Right, you can see the POTENTIAL. That could have been interesting, but now it's just one long drawn out sequence of them walking around.

You got that wrong. What I mean is that you can see the potential of what the rest of the movie could've been like, because I really like the middle part of the movie.

 

[kguillou]

So what did they add into this then? Any notable deleted scenes?

 

[gothamrogue14]

WB wanted a family-friendly/SJW-friendly movie/feminists-friendly movie and they just couldn't release some different cut because that would totally change storylines and relationships.

Yea I got that vibe as well... unfortunately Suicide Squad got thrown together during a time of extreme political correctness where everyone's getting offended about something. It's crazy to think that we've seen more Harley/Joker abuse and Joker violence in animation than in this film. Hopefully The Batman film doesn't suffer from this current culture sensitive mindset. It would be a shame to see the DC films that are meant to be darker and grittier get the audience popular Marvel treatment.
Thank God the Dark Knight Trilogy came out when it did.

 

[Aquafinn90]

So what did they add into this then? Any notable deleted scenes?

There's one big chunk added to the second act where we get a lot of extra character interactions, which I really like, and the Harley motorcycle scene. Its probably like a solid 7 or 8 minutes, which was much needed because in the TC the second act always felt like it skipped over something to me. aside from that its just a few extra lines here and there. Third act is completely untouched.

I don't get all the hate for the plot in this movie. It's a simplistic plot that works well to focus more on the characters, which is Ayer's strong suit. I love that the entire Midway City attack happens on account of Waller and that Enchantress goes rogue. What I DON'T like is the ill-fitting over the top Enchantress plot. Incubus was useless and should have been dropped. Her original "ashy" look should have been kept. The effects needed to be less absurd, and her powers needed to be a reigned in a bit- make her more about smoke and mirrors rather than shooting lightning out of her hands. The Harley Joker abusive relationship needed to be there, absolutely ridiculous that it was cut. The first act needed a complete overhaul, and it seems based on the novelization and test screening reports that it was quite good at one point, but cut in favor of a terrible scene where Waller pulls out a BINDER of the Squad and gives us a 20 minute scene of exposition. The third act is really just....generic. Still would have liked to see how it went pre re-shoots. The only dialogue I have a problem with is in the third act "Her heart is out we can end this!" "lady, you are EVIL" etc etc.

Also, there's dialogue missing still from a lot of scenes that would've made a lot more sense, that is in the novelization. The chemical wedding scene makes a lot more sense. As does their plan to kill Flag. As it stands, they go from wanting to kill him, to deciding they need to protect him over a span of about 2 minutes. In the book, they discuss that they want to kill Flag, but they specifically talk about how they can only do it after they get their nanites disarmed and that until then they need to protect him. The added June/Rick scenes in the book give their relationship much added depth.

There are two good movies here, maybe not GREAT ones, but solid ones. One being Ayer's original dark vision. The second being the one with the trippy effects and music videos. Yes I said it, I think that if the movie had been conceived like that in SCRIPT WRITING stage, it could've been something cool and different(though Ayer couldn't have pulled that version off- Snyder actually would've been a good guy for that). But you cannot shoehorn it in last minute. WB has failed to realize that half the reason BVS got such bad reviews was because they cut out half the story. So what do they do? Go back in the editing room and ruin everything all over again. Fortunately, most of the characters were done so well that they could do a much better SS sequel, or have them in the Batman movie and they would have a good jumping board to start from.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Well, disappointing to hear that the extended cut doesn't improve the film much, this film needed a director's cut, not a longer version of the butchered film WB released.

 

[gothamrogue14]

Well, disappointing to hear that the extended cut doesn't improve the film much, this film needed a director's cut, not a longer version of the butchered film WB released.

Since money is the name of the game....and if there's enough fan outcry, just maybe we'll see an Ultimate Cut down the road once David Ayer has enough clout as a director to go back and have his say. Kind of like what Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner.

 

[-JKR-]

Since money is the name of the game....and if there's enough fan outcry, just maybe we'll see an Ultimate Cut down the road once David Ayer has enough clout as a director to go back and have his say. Kind of like what Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner.

They won't.

This version of Suicide Squad was a box office success, and David Ayer's would alter character interactions and whatnot. El Diablo was originally meant to survive, and not turn into... that thing.
And with this movie being part of a 'cinematic universe,' they can't really change things around. And they won't.

I don't think studios even care about the individual movies anymore. They're mostly about getting the 'DC universe' machine running, and have people showing whenever a new movie with the 'DC' logo pops up. Same with Marvel Studios. They're mostly about the bigger picture, and getting people to return to their brand, instead of how good and memorable their individual movies are.

They're basically 'network television series for the big screen' now. Episodes can be hit and miss, as long as the season average ratings stay high.

And many fans are really being tricked into this mindset. Lots of people care more about the movies bringing forward the 'universe' and the bigger picture rather than the single movie now.

 

[gothamrogue14]

They won't.

This version of Suicide Squad was a box office success, and David Ayer's would alter character interactions and whatnot. El Diablo was originally meant to survive, and not turn into... that thing.
And with this movie being part of a 'cinematic universe,' they can't really change things around. And they won't.

Yep you're probably right. It's time to just except this for what it is. Fortunately storywise it doesn't have too big of an impact on the overall DC Film universe that we could always pretend it doesn't exist

 

[kguillou]

Bladerunner was Ridley Scott's baby though, I dont think Ayer gives two F's about this. His silence is very telling, hes not passionate about this enough to even want to come back to this.

 

[-JKR-]

Bladerunner was Ridley Scott's baby though, I dont think Ayer gives two F's about this. His silence is very telling, hes not passionate about this enough to even want to come back to this.

I don't think that he's not passionate. But when the studio takes away the movie you've been working on non-stop for over two years and just re-edits it how they see fit you don't really want to repeat that experience and you either rant about it or you stay professional and just shut the hell up - 'cause it's the studio's money anyway and they can do whatever they want with it.

Plus, he's currently busy filming Bright with Will Smith and Joel Edgerton. People move on with their lives, and I don't see why Ayer shouldn't in this case.