Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[MbJ]

He really looks like JK Simmons there.

 

[MbJ]

With Disney recently saying they plan to double down on direct-to-consumer content in the coming years, I do wonder if they'll just bite the bullet and drop Widow on streaming or VOD if things still aren't okay by next summer.

The actor who plays Deadpool’s distant ancestor

I see what you did there.

 

[jmc]

The power of social media

I am forever going to be dumbfounded as to how so many companies became this frightened over such a small group of hashtag searching, colourfully dyed hair weirdos who have no life outside of their phones.

 

[fan4stic]

The idea that Star Wars, The Dark Knight and The Winter Soldier are not political is just fundamentally wrong. If someone doesn't want to see the very overt politics in the work, that is one thing. But not liking them, doesn't mean they don't exist and they clearly do in all those situation.

As to the Jameson thing, it's clearly a modern day update, that keeps him a relevant grifter news man in the year 2021.

I don't agree with that, in the way that I view politics. I think they have political things and talks in them.

I think that doesn't add to the character and serves to paint him as more in the wrong as a character.

On this subject, I find it incredibly hilarious that a lot of right wingers favorite movies from the last decade or so (TDK, TWS, Civil War, Fury Road, etc.), directly crap on them and their political views. Which is exactly why they try to erase the politics from the films. I will never, and I mean never, get over the idea that Fury Road is not a feminist film at it's heart. It's' so perfectly absurd.

I don't see this as about the subject. I wasn't discuss right wing or left wing views.

Who says how many of those who are called right wingers sees all things the movies are presenting as wrong?

you make them sound mutually exclusive or something? Politics isn’t some loopy mathematical diagram that’s divorced from reality. They are also moral and social issues.

people who have reactionary views on technology and music tend to have other retrograde views as well. You seem to be defeating your own argument. If JJ is already an old dude complains about those things. It’s hardly more than a step or two to imagine he would be reactionary in other ways.

I think politics is more about politicians and/or those in power using those moral and social issues to serve their own interests and/or ego. In a way that's how I see it being involved.

That doesn't reflect that character, to me.

Why is it not more than a step or 2? Those 2 things aren't the exact same.

The movies you named are very political. The core issue at the heart of TWS is how far do you value security over freedom, which has been a very real world issue and question. See the Patriot Act and such during the Bush Administration. TDK trilogy is all about class warfare. It also hits on The Patriot Act also. Remember the plotline with Batman using cell phones to spy on the city? Direct parallel to The Patriot Act. These are all very political films. Now, they are executed in a way that works. That is the difference between any good vs bad film though: execution.

I would suggest that's a very moral issue, than a political one. The movie itself presents against the mass murder of people. Which may tie into political structures, but is playing on a very moral stance. Even the listening in on people here, is barely discussed as an issue, but more the killing of people for crimes they haven't committed yet.

Even The Dark Knight had Batman use the cell phone thing, presented it as something Fox disagreed with, but Batman used it anyway and using it helped keep people from getting killed, but the movie had it destroyed, and it still was more a part of the plot, than being what the plot was about.

Maybe the issue is in execution. To me, these movies present these situations in a moral structure and as a part of the plot, without turning that into the plot as being the politics in and of itself.

But I think the shifting of Jameson's story and character in that way doesn't serve that angle, to me. Or trying to parallel Trump specifically, when I think government, on it's own, isn't serving all moral interests, whether Trump is president or not.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

I think politics is more about politicians and/or those in power using those moral and social issues to serve their own interests and/or ego. In a way that's how I see it being involved.

politics is about people coming together to solve a common problem. Whether that involves voting for a representative or collective bargaining.

Why is it not more than a step

people who complain about modern technology or culture have a rosy view of the general past. If they harbor those thoughts about music or tech it’s not hard to see them have reactionary views about other social issues.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't agree with that, in the way that I view politics. I think they have political things and talks in them.

I think that doesn't add to the character and serves to paint him as more in the wrong as a character.I don't see this as about the subject. I wasn't discuss right wing or left wing views.

Who says how many of those who are called right wingers sees all things the movies are presenting as wrong?I think politics is more about politicians and/or those in power using those moral and social issues to serve their own interests and/or ego. In a way that's how I see it being involved.

That doesn't reflect that character, to me.

Why is it not more than a step or 2? Those 2 things aren't the exact same.I would suggest that's a very moral issue, than a political one. The movie itself presents against the mass murder of people. Which may tie into political structures, but is playing on a very moral stance. Even the listening in on people here, is barely discussed as an issue, but more the killing of people for crimes they haven't committed yet.

Even The Dark Knight had Batman use the cell phone thing, presented it as something Fox disagreed with, but Batman used it anyway and using it helped keep people from getting killed, but the movie had it destroyed, and it still was more a part of the plot, than being what the plot was about.

Maybe the issue is in execution. To me, these movies present these situations in a moral structure and as a part of the plot, without turning that into the plot as being the politics in and of itself.

But I think the shifting of Jameson's story and character in that way doesn't serve that angle, to me. Or trying to parallel Trump specifically, when I think government, on it's own, isn't serving all moral interests, whether Trump is president or not.

Yeah, morality is at play in those movies. But guess what: politics is often a morality issue. These movies clearly made political statements or had commentary on political issues. Again, this seems more an issue of ignoring the political implications than anything else. But that doesn't change the fact that these are very heavily political in nature. Which, again....art always has been. One could see Dante's Inferno as a basic trip through hell, but Dante clearly made political statements in choosing which historical figures he saw in hell and why. Godzilla on the surface is a basic monster attacks Japan movie, but the movie is about post Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan and the moral implications of nuclear arms.

There is nothing wrong with political art.

 

[Sithborg]

Some people's actual existence is considered political to a lot of people. Art is often political. And these days, the most idiotic thing is considered political.

I'm not sure how people made it through the 90's, with some insanely political cartoons.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Some people's actual existence is considered political to a lot of people. Art is often political. And these days, the most idiotic thing is considered political.

I'm not sure how people made it through the 90's, with some insanely political cartoons.

I distinctly remember an episode of Ren and Stimpy where Powdered Toast Man became President, and he burnt the Constitution in the fireplace. Does anyone want to argue there was not a political message there?

 

[jmc]

Political art or art that is entirely based around who the artist is and what his or her life experiences are is fine, but it's also art that is likely to cause reaction of some sort. If your an artist and you're ok with that then create away. If you're an artist who wants to appeal to everyone though then your art and creative decisions have to extend beyond just yourself. It has to speak universal languages in that instance, touching on themes and ideas that cut across class, nationality, sex, etc, and get to the heart of what makes us human. So to all the creatives out there pick your poison.

 

[Sithborg]

Political art or art that is entirely based around who the artist is and what his or her life experiences are is fine, but it's also art that is likely to cause reaction of some sort. If your an artist and you're ok with that then create away. If you're an artist who wants to appeal to everyone though then your art and creative decisions have to extend beyond just yourself. It has to speak universal languages in that instance, touching on themes and ideas that cut across class, nationality, sex, etc, and get to the heart of what makes us human. So to all the creatives out there pick your poison.

Also, you know, make it past the Chinese censors.

 

[chamber-music]

That Wyatt Russell dude is supposed to be US Agent in F&TWS. I have no idea who that character is outside of the Marvel vs Capcom games.

Walker (US Agent) is like Captain America if he grew up watching nothing but Fox News.

Mark Gruenwald created Walker to counter the general message in Captain America of patriotism being invariably good, describing him as someone "who embodied patriotism in a way that Captain America didn't—a patriotic villain. Basically, I just wanted to do the opposite of Steve Rogers. Okay, Steve Rogers is a poor northern urban boy. So I'll make a guy from rural middle class south. Cap is now old, so this guy'll be a real young up-and-comer. Cap has lofty ideals, so I'll make Super-Patriot be more realistic and more pragmatic. So, I put together his background and character traits by playing the opposite game."

 

[fan4stic]

politics is about people coming together to solve a common problem. Whether that involves voting for a representative or collective bargaining.

people who complain about modern technology or culture have a rosy view of the general past. If they harbor those thoughts about music or tech it’s not hard to see them have reactionary views about other social issues.

I don't view it that way. I think some may see it that way, others may want it to be that way. But it's not what I view it as.

Maybe some do. But it's not something I see as being something that has to go with the character.

Yeah, morality is at play in those movies. But guess what: politics is often a morality issue. These movies clearly made political statements or had commentary on political issues. Again, this seems more an issue of ignoring the political implications than anything else. But that doesn't change the fact that these are very heavily political in nature. Which, again....art always has been. One could see Dante's Inferno as a basic trip through hell, but Dante clearly made political statements in choosing which historical figures he saw in hell and why. Godzilla on the surface is a basic monster attacks Japan movie, but the movie is about post Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan and the moral implications of nuclear arms.

There is nothing wrong with political art.

I think politics gets involved in moral issues. It doesn't mean I think they're one and the same. These movies, to me, take moral stances, speaking in those terms, to me. I think others more used those things as apart of the plot, not making the movie itself about the politics. I view Negasaki thing as more a metaphorical use of politics. The other thing I know very little about. I also said that I think there may be an execution concept in it.

Some people's actual existence is considered political to a lot of people. Art is often political. And these days, the most idiotic thing is considered political.

I'm not sure how people made it through the 90's, with some insanely political cartoons.

Yeah. I think it's thrown around easily, to me. I'm trying to quell that concept of applying that to things.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't view it that way. I think some may see it that way, others may want it to be that way. But it's not what I view it as.

Maybe some do. But it's not something I see as being something that has to go with the character.I think politics gets involved in moral issues. It doesn't mean I think they're one and the same. These movies, to me, take moral stances, speaking in those terms, to me. I think others more used those things as apart of the plot, not making the movie itself about the politics. I view Negasaki thing as more a metaphorical use of politics. The other thing I know very little about. I also said that I think there may be an execution concept in it.Yeah. I think it's thrown around easily, to me. I'm trying to quell that concept of applying that to things.

At the end of the day, art is something experienced at an individual level. So I cannot tell you how to experience art. That being said, I definitely think you are picking and choosing. Maybe not consciously, but it feels you kind of just write off the political elements of whatever you enjoy and only focus on it when it doesn't work for you. When you like it, it is a "moral issue" and when you don't, it is "forcing politics where it doesn't belong." Which is not uncommon. My dad loves Avatar, despite the fact it stands for everything he hates politically. But, not seeing the forest for the trees doesn't really change the underlying fact that those movies you named are political in nature and commenting on societal issues. The artists had political messages and intent when they crafted those films.

But again, you will at the end of the day see the world your own way. Regardless of whatever I say on this forum. As the saying goes, you do you and we will just agree to disagree I guess.

 

[metaphysician]

Re: political themes and messages in movies, I think its much less a matter of "political vs not political", and more a question of deftness and handling. Beyond simply "a good movie is good", the key element is whether a movie's political themes are complex, or a soap box. Most movies that have someone say that its "too political", what they really mean is "the movie wasn't a story or even an argument, but a diatribe hitting everyone over the head with a mallet".

So, for example, is Black Panther "political"? Holy **** yes, pretty much every single element of its theming is a political hot button. Why the lack of complaints outside the obviously-super-racist? Because it wasn't a soap box, but an actual human analysis of the history and philosophy at play. It didn't go "Here's a simple answer to a complex issue that is obviously right, as proven by all the people disagreeing being black hat villains", but instead humanized and embodied pretty much every angle. End result is a movie that has something to say beyond the "You are awesome/evil for agreeing/disagreeing with me" preaching that a soap box movie performs.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Re: political themes and messages in movies, I think its much less a matter of "political vs not political", and more a question of deftness and handling. Beyond simply "a good movie is good", the key element is whether a movie's political themes are complex, or a soap box. Most movies that have someone say that its "too political", what they really mean is "the movie wasn't a story or even an argument, but a diatribe hitting everyone over the head with a mallet".

So, for example, is Black Panther "political"? Holy **** yes, pretty much every single element of its theming is a political hot button. Why the lack of complaints outside the obviously-super-racist? Because it wasn't a soap box, but an actual human analysis of the history and philosophy at play. It didn't go "Here's a simple answer to a complex issue that is obviously right, as proven by all the people disagreeing being black hat villains", but instead humanized and embodied pretty much every angle. End result is a movie that has something to say beyond the "You are awesome/evil for agreeing/disagreeing with me" preaching that a soap box movie performs.

In other words, it only matters at the end of the day whether or not the idea is executed well or not. Not whether it is grounded in political pretense. Which is what I said from the beginning

 

[Detective Conan]

Marvel’s ‘Shang-Chi’ Has Officially Wrapped Filming

 

[Kev4000]

Marvel’s ‘Shang-Chi’ Has Officially Wrapped Filming

Impressive. 2,5 months for filming at all. And we still know nothing about it.
Wandavision and F&WS are filming by a year now.

 

[kguillou]

That was quick! Usually these cbms take like 5-6 months to film. Might signify that this is going to be a tight, lean, modestly budgeted film which is cool with me. Just hope it has well choreographed kung fu action.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's always nice to see one of the movies filming make it all the way through unscathed in the current environment.

 

[kguillou]

Did they finish filming The Eternals too or was that interrupted?

 

[Detective Conan]

Did they finish filming The Eternals too or was that interrupted?

The Eternals finished filming awhile ago. They’re currently doing post-production work(i.e, touch-ups on VFX, ADR) remotely. Heck, it’s mostly finished by now, and will be definitely will be completely 100% done by the end of this year way before the film hits its November 2021 release date.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't know if they finished reshoots, though

 

[MbJ]

Was the Czech Republic part of the FATWS shoot the last of it or is there still more?

 

[Detective Conan]

For those skeptical of this true being: both DanielRPK And ViewerAnon have proven to be reliable, and have reported accurate information in the past. For example, in Daniel’s case, he’s the one originally reported that Endgame(then untitled) would have a five year time jump after the events of Infinity War. He can get stuff wrong, sure, but I think I trust him here. ViewerAnon is an insider who accurately leaked the plots of movie’s like the theatrical cut of Justice League and WW84. So I trust them.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I sort of expected some type of cameo in Doctor Strange 2, honestly