SUPERMAN PRIME (holding nothing back) vs GOKU (with full access to the Dragon Balls)

[Midnight Black]

Who says he can't instant transmission into his body?

 

[WarrenPeace2012]

BATMAN wins

 

[Lucien]

Who says he can't instant transmission into his body?

Uh, Dragonball Z says so. IT moves him through space and time, it doesn't break down his molecules and reassemble at a different location. And even if it did it would fuse him to Superman and kill himself when he reformed. But Goku has never had the ability to phase through solid matter.

 

[Midnight Black]

Lol, if he can move through space and time then he could obviously move through the space that composites Prime's body right? He wouldn't necessarily have to phase his body by moving his molecules at a speed equal or greater to the frequency of the atoms of opposing matter. He would just need to transmit/teleport into the location of space that Prime is occupying and blow him up from the inside.

...but I agree Batman would own both of them lol.

 

[Lucien]

But it wouldn't blow Superman up. If he could do it it would just mash Goku's molecules up inside Superman's killing himself. Considering Goku has never done this, ever, it suggests either the technique simply can't do it, he subconciously stops himself doing it or he's just smart enough not to. The fact is there's no evidence in the manga or anime to suggest he can do it.

 

[Midnight Black]

There's no evidence that this whole argument should even exist or that one should beat the other, but that is the whole basis for this debate. For one to prove or rather convince why one should win. Assuming that Goku can instant transmission anywhere then he could very well transmitt himself into Prime's body and explode him from the inside lol.

 

[Lucien]

The thing is you are assuming he can instant transmit to anywhere, namely into solid matter. I'm saying he can't for the reasons I said. He's only ever been shown to IT into open air. And I fail to see why Superman would blow up and Goku survive.

 

[Midnight Black]

But open air is not as open as you think. There are molecules and atoms that occupy that space, it's just that it is easier to push those molecules and atoms out because of them being open and having space to move. By Goku IT into Prime's boy he could very well push the atoms and molecules outwards, assuming that his matter and molecules are strong enough to oppose the density of Prime's. I would think so if pushing from the inside. Thus, doing so would cause him to explode lol

Either way this battle will never happen. I'm just using big words and empty physics to support a stance lol.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Goku can IT through spacetime, Superman Prime has control over spacetime.

This is a redundant question. In any scenario, with any character, Superman Prime would win because he is omnipotent, omniscient and immortal.

 

[Midnight Black]

He couldn't beat Rocky Marciano....he beat Joe Louis' a**.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhuRoqse6gc

 

[Riptor]

But open air is not as open as you think. There are molecules and atoms that occupy that space, it's just that it is easier to push those molecules and atoms out because of them being open and having space to move. By Goku IT into Prime's boy he could very well push the atoms and molecules outwards, assuming that his matter and molecules are strong enough to oppose the density of Prime's. I would think so if pushing from the inside. Thus, doing so would cause him to explode lol

Either way this battle will never happen. I'm just using big words and empty physics to support a stance lol.

Insulting a guy because you cant win an argument... classy

And no he wouldnt be able to because "Prime Boy" is at this point an abstract being and probably doesnt have a physical form unless he wants to, even if Goku goes inside someone and explodes him, he'll just come back together. Then send Goku back to DBZ-verse because killing just isnt his thing.

 

[Midnight Black]

Insulting a guy because you cant win an argument... classy

And no he wouldnt be able to because "Prime Boy" is at this point an abstract being and probably doesnt have a physical form unless he wants to, even if Goku goes inside someone and explodes him, he'll just come back together. Then send Goku back to DBZ-verse because killing just isnt his thing.

Hmmm, didn't know I was insulting anyone. Should try reading again because i was referring to myself as the person using poor science and physics. Nice try though welcome to SHH.

Anywho, Prime wouldn't send anyone anywhere because they aren't even in the same universe so this is still a redundant and purely subjective argument, just for fun.

 

[Riptor]

Hmmm, didn't know I was insulting anyone. Should try reading again because i was referring to myself as the person using poor science and physics. Nice try though welcome to SHH.

Anywho, Prime wouldn't send anyone anywhere because they aren't even in the same universe so this is still a redundant and purely subjective argument, just for fun.

I meant to direct that to the other guy, it just got lumped into your post. Wasnt trying to point it in your direction.

Superman Prime sent the Atom back to his Universe, after repairing and rebuilding it. So i dont think its a big issue for Supes. Superman Prime Also managed to intertwine with the All Star Superman Universe so i think hes good with teleportation.

 

[Riptor]

I refuse to vote in this because this battle has been rehashed over, and over, and over again already too many times in this forum. It is a waste of time, and Wizard Comics stated who would of won in a Goku vs Superman battle...

Yes because that battle totally wasnt a biased one. And they totally didnt use information that wasnt true and overspeculated Gokus power. Promting them to have to rehash the battle and make it a Fan Vote (also BS) in which Superman won.

Yeah... That batte was truly the definitive battle of Superman vs Goku.

 

[Midnight Black]

I meant to direct that to the other guy, it just got lumped into your post. Wasnt trying to point it in your direction.

Superman Prime sent the Atom back to his Universe, after repairing and rebuilding it. So i dont think its a big issue for Supes. Superman Prime Also managed to intertwine with the All Star Superman Universe so i think hes good with teleportation.

Okay, cool. No worries. I got you.

 

[Riptor]

Okay, cool. No worries. I got you.

Its ok, sorry i didnt use Multi Quote

 

[DrCosmic]

This isn't a fight, this is a race to see who wishes first. Either one is capable of wiping the other out of existence in the blink of an eye.

 

[Riptor]

This isn't a fight, this is a race to see who wishes first. Either one is capable of wiping the other out of existence in the blink of an eye.

No its a really one sided debate. Despite what the Fanboys say, Goku has no way of defeating Superman Prime. He couldnt even beat up Pre-Crisis Superman let alone a version of Superman who can create Pre-Crisis Supermen like nothing.

 

[LoLfunnyguy]

SO if goku has access to the dragon ball he would just wish superman prime back into a baby and easily kill him or reverse his power. with the access to dragonball theres millions of way to beat superman prime. but goku vs superman is really not comparable if you think about it people in dc are way different from dragon ball. This is simply just not comparable. If you bring it to a level perspective and everyone has the same power lvl goku would win because of combat differences and goku would have the upper hand in combat level. My two cents

 

[Lord]

No its a really one sided debate. Despite what the Fanboys say, Goku has no way of defeating Superman Prime. He couldnt even beat up Pre-Crisis Superman let alone a version of Superman who can create Pre-Crisis Supermen like nothing.

???
Pre-crisis superman would be anyhilated by Goku, superman only punches and has secondary abilities (in the silver age e got a power almost every month) while Goku has mastered the most powerful techniques and ways of fighting in the universe and can destroy planet earth in his weakest form.

 

[Gmoney411]

There r 2 problems with this question and thee r reason y either Superman or Goku would win depending on the circumstance
If say Goku doesn't see Superman coming, all Supes has got to do is grab Goku, drag him into space and watch Goku suffocate and die! Or if he really want to make sure he dies quick, fly him into a star and watch him burn to a crisp?
If Goku does see him coming however and has all the dragon balls, he could just wish Superman away and win!

 

[ILikeComics]

First I like Superman I like most Comics But this constant hate for the other side is kinda rediculous. Goku kicks ass so does Supes.
However Supes has become increasingly OP it gets kinda dumb seriously Supes prime is now immune to kryptonite what the hell that's the laziest writing I ever heard. the only thing that could stop supes is now useless what the F*&k kinda excuse is that. At least Goku wasn't immortal, but oh now SUpes is immortal. First I would like to see to see a arc where Supes is now the weakest of the JLA, that would be crazy also how the hell can he use a green lanturn ring he's not even a laturn. Also he can create life, really only god can do that. Now on to Goku he is my fav but I'm do a little bashing first off the DB arc nuff said, next it's not that Goku is the strongest it's his perserverance and unfaltering courage. He is probably the worst father as well, infact the sad part is if Gohan wasn't such a puss. He would be the strongest in the universe. To qoute the inhabitants of frieza planet 419 "Cell atains his perfect form, the real form of boo is a kid, Gohans the strongest in the universe but still doesn't do crap." So to put it bluntly Supes is an OP *****ebag and Goku is the single most moronic person in the universe. But we love him anyway.

 

[Esoteric]

Hmm... I am rather new to forums in general, but after a long discussion with my father about Superman vs Goku (him telling me about Superman Prime) I was inclined to read up on this version of the Man of Steel.

Previously my opinion had been that Goku was superior to Superman in everyway, myself never seeing Superman exert the raw destructive energy that Goku is seen doing on several occasion throughout his story. I did note though that this opinion was heavily based on Goku's exertion of his ki on his surroundings. Since when powering up the battle field is visibly effected. Superman charges himself like a solar battery, however he does not "power up" in the devastating way that Goku does, which gives the appearance of less strength. However just because he does not cause the earth catastrophic damage while preparing for a fight does not make him weak.

Anyway, before I start on Superman Prime Vs Max Goku, I wanted to look at the two in other forms. It is obvious that Goku from the beginning Dragonball is no match for any version of superman due to his lack of training and limited power, but the thing is this Goku is a kid so I'd rather start off when both are adults, so End Goku compared to Adult Superman. This would be the weakest Goku, the weakest (in my opinion) superman would be the original version, the one who is "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" without many of the add-ons and increases we see in later incarnations.

To compare I'll look at Five specific instances, Speed, Strength, Stamina, Movement (flight), Combat Intellect.

Speed - Superman is listed as faster than a speeding bullet. To Be honest Bullets move at different speeds depending on the firearm used, however after finding raw numbers online I will be using the range of 1800 mph - 5000 mph (yeah a big range but well to be honest there are a lot of guns and a lot of different variables) Either way the median of 3400 mph is a tough speed to compete with (Not to mention Superman is FASTER than a speeding bullet). Goku in DB is known to move faster than the eye can track, but how fast is that? The internet tells me that it depends on how large the person is, which makes sense, a larger object must be moving faster for it to be able to avoid perception. For the average human the number looks to be 250 m/s or 560 mph (Lol as fast as a Passenger Airplane at a high speed xD) Though we do not know if Goku's displayed speed is his fastest I do know that 560 versus 3400+ leaves a large enough gap to merit me giving speed to Superman.

Strength - More powerful than a locomotive - 410,000 lbs, or 200 tons about. For Goku, we already see him lift 1.5 tons at the very start of dragon ball when he lifts Bulma's car. By virtue of power levels (Kid Goku at 12 and Adult DB Goku at 270 [910 using the kamehama vs Piccolo Jr.]) Goku can lift at minimum 34 tons, this being without exerting ki. (the 910 results in 114 tons) Sadly though the use of power levels is not a valid way to measure raw strength since power level is fighting ability in general not just physical might. Revisiting a specific instance where Kid Goku move a giant boulder that is easily in the tons I looked for some information on that. If the rock is 20x20x20 and made of material that weighs 150 lbs/cu foot then 8000 x 150 = 1200000 or 600 tons. However the Rock was not a perfect cube so I would be willing to shave off extra points if it were not for the fact that this is Kid Goku, quiet early in the series which easily implies that adult Goku can do far better. 600+ versus 200+ means in the Test of strength Adult Dragonball Goku beats Basic Superman.

Stamina - Though the saying does not cover Superman's stamina, I will assume he is still bulletproof and has the superhuman endurance to last a fight with a equal or even greater foe. Goku even as a kid was bullet resistant. They stung rather than pinging off, but in his adult form they would be little more than the poking of a toddler. I can't say much without numbers here, but I am going to say Adult Goku and Basic Superman are Equal in stamina/resistance (aside from kryptonite)

Movement - This one is easy. Goku learned to fly after training with Kami before he fights Piccolo Jr. Basic superman cannot fly. Jumping-wise the average "tall building" has changed over the years since buildings now are taller than when Basic Superman was created. However I will use current date because I am putting Superman in modern time. 500ft about is a normal/smallish skyscraper and anything over 1000ft becomes a supertall or megatall building. I am going to place Superman at being able to leap up to 1000ft in the air, can Goku compete? Sure he can fly... but also in several of the tournament matches he is seen leaping at least a minute into the sky. I say minute meaning that it takes a minute to fall back down to earth. The formula being s=(1/2) *32* t^2 or Distance=(1/2) *32* time (in seconds)^2. using 60 seconds as the time for him to reach the ground Goku has to be at least 57,000 ft in the sky. Hands down Goku wins this one.

Combat Intelligence - First off Goku is a very foolish person, even in his later stages he wastes his energy fighting Buu because he thought Vegeta wanted a chance to fight. DB Goku was no wiser. However strategy wise Goku again and again proves to be quiet intelligent. From snatching Master Roshi's Glasses to avoid being blinded to mimicking/learning his opponents techniques within one viewing, Goku is a combat genius. Superman in some versions is known for knowing kryptonian martial arts, however basic superman as far as I've seen has only used punches, kicks, holds, throws and grappling maneuvers. While these are all very effective against head on enemies, I have to say that Goku as an Adult in Dragon Ball Z exhibits superior Fighting Prowess.

With all of this said, I will say that at their weakest adult forms, Goku is stronger than Superman.

Now moving on...

Across the various stages and incarnations both heroes have increased exponentially.
My opinion is that most incarnations of Superman can dispatch Goku up until the end of the Freiza Saga where he attains Super Saiyan.
My opinion of Goku after Super Saiyan is that he can beat any Superman with the exception of the All Star Superman and Superman Prime, both of which are the strongest incarnations of Superman.

I will say flat out that I believe that Super Saiyan 3 is comparable to the All Star Superman. Both possessing impossible strength Goku having the ki potential to destroy the earth several times over, merely powering up devastates the land around him, and Superman so strong that the key to the Fortress of Solitude is a X Billion ton key carved from a dwarf star. Speed are both immeasurable with the Kryptonian able to travel galaxies away in a few days (or when he was weakened, a few weeks) And Goku's Instant Transmission allowing him to hop planets in the blink of an eye.

However equal these two may be I will now address the actual topic of this forum.

First off, I greatly disliked DBGT, I do not consider it cannon. Thus Goku's peak for me is at SSJ3 which is infinitely weaker than Superman Prime. Mostly because SSJ3 has limits. Goku cannot sustain it for a prolonged amount of time, he has impossible strength, speed, stamina, but not infinite of any of them while Superman Prime does. Superman Prime is a fraction shy of The Presence, which is the DC incarnation of the Omnipotent Judeo-Christian God. SS3J cannot compete.

However allowing for the inclusion of DBGT I can still say that The Golden Oozaru, SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Gogeta all fall short of Superman Primes Godlike powers. Time and Space are meaningless to this version of Superman, he has no limits. He can raise the dead, even himself post-mortem. That singular power makes him immortal and unbeatable with the exception of The Presence who could end reality if He willed so. However with the Possession of a green lantern ring and his neigh omnipotence Superman Prime could do the exact same thing only it would not affect The Presence because he is completely invincible to the fullest extent of the word.

I used to think Goku SSJ4 was superior to Superman, and he is to every incarnation except for Superman Prime to which he is inferior by a great margin, but here I reach the end of my discussion with an odd sentiment. We are not given explicitly the powers that Goku has after fusing with Shenron. Shenron is the eternal Dragon. He is immortal, it was funny for me though that King Piccolo slays Shenron who is told to have a power level of 8000 in dragonball. I think that was a plot hole but that is just me. If Shenron truely is the Eternal Dragon then he is unkillable and by fusing with him now Goku is unkillable. I believe (since there is nothing to say otherwise) That Goku after fusing with Shenron would not be able to be slain, because by the same token that the Dragon can raise the dead repeatedly Goku could Raise himself from the Afterlife (if he could even be killed to start with) Thus in a TRUE battle between Max Goku and Superman Prime there could be no victor. I am sure Goku would enjoy the fight as he has said to many (Pikkon, Kid Buu, Uub). However an all out fight between the two would sunder reality (not the galaxy, not the universe, not just the dimension. It would shatter the multiverse and reality itself. And even after that the two would still not be dead.

I may sound like I am wishy-washy and can't pick a side, but actually, I did pick a side before and after close study I realize that that was not what the evidence supported.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Q: What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

A: They Surrender
~~~~~~~~~~~

Sources:
Myself ^ - ^
Reason & Logic (I think < . <)
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml (Speed of a bullet)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080717111007AAhauhf (Speed Faster than the Eye)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061006115957AAUax6r (Locomotive pull)
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels (Goku Power Level)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-530111-dbz-more-powerful-than-you-think.html (Goku strength)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper (Skyscrapers)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100915055833AA5i3aq (Acceleration due to gravity)

 

[dru-zod2501]

Dammit, Screwattack needs to hurry up and settle this once and for all!! I gotta back my boy Superman though

 

[Number 6]

Hmm, what I think I find most interesting about this apparently long-going and seemingly endless debate is pretty much nothing.