Superman Returns Superman Returns is in continuity with the Donner Cut of Superman II! (Spoilers)

[Maze]

Nope i don't agree.

If you wan't to know why just do some search on my profile. i realized since some time for my part that this debate is useless . The point of views are too extreme to "advance" somewhere else.

 

[X Knight]

ahh....yes.....maze....it is useless. We simply have different viewpoints and will disagree....... And, quite frankly, I am getting tired of repeating myself. What's done is done. we can only look to the future........

i'll just leave it as this. If Singer thought he had a tough time getting people reinterested in Superman for his first movie, he's really going to have his work cut out for him in the sequel to keep a certain segment of the audience ( ppl like myself ) interested in his new franchise.

Regardless of what Singer does in the sequel(s), HE HAS TO ADDRESS this issue intelligently and tastefully. Somehow, the KID angle has to be resolved and fully explained without tarnishing Superman's iconic image.

SR was, no doubt, a truly BEAUTIFUL to look at and VISUALLY STUNNING. For me, it was just the story and kid angle that fell flat.

I have nothing against Singer, and I really liked his vision for his Xmen movies. If anything, he, imo, jumpstarted the revival of making mainstream comic book movies, as he took a subject matter that could easily fall prey to camp and presented it in a serious, thoughtful, and intelligent manner.

I sincerely hope Singer will create a Superman movie that is a masterpiece both in VISUALS AND IN STORY. Hopefully, Singer will do it, and then, perhaps, I ( and other fans like me ) will be interested in his Superman again. I guess, only time will tell, and we will hear more as the sequel approaches.

Until then........I will bid this board farewell as I concentrate on finishing up my studies and moving on to new things in my life. It has certainly been an enoyable experience, and I do appreciate every conversation and argument......please continue to respect and welcome each other's opinions and differences..........UP, UP, AND AWAY!!!!!

 

[Substance D]

Until then........I will bid this board farewell as I concentrate on finishing up my studies and moving on to new things in my life. It has certainly been an enoyable experience, and I do appreciate every conversation and argument......please continue to respect and welcome each other's opinions and differences..........UP, UP, AND AWAY!!!!!

Hopefully one of those new things is sex, because you need it.

 

[phil]

Singer needs to step away from Superman altogether. Even if he did follow the Donner cut his movie sucked.

 

[charl_huntress]

Hopefully one of those new things is sex, because you need it.

Damn Substance! Where did that come from??????

 

[charl_huntress]

Hopefully one of those new things is sex, because you need it.

Damn Substance! Where did that come from??????

 

[charl_huntress]

I understand what you are saying, and it is certainly debatable, but it is impossible to be a dead-beat dad if you do not know you are a dad. If a woman has a child and doesn't tell the father, the father lives in say Florida, he returns to NY and finds out he is a father. How is he a dead beat dad? I understand Lois couldn't tell him because he left, so it is a complicated situation.

I think there was no way he could have owned up to it within the realm of this movie, he found out he was the father at the end of the story.

It's very possible to be a dead beat dad if you bang a chick and leave without any words of farewell afterwards. You don't have to know the deed was accomplished to be a dead beat dad. That actually starts by not handling your responsiblities properly from the jump start.

The scenario in SR is the recipe for a dead beat and irresponsible dad, and this is what Singer and his writers gave us. Without the context, Supes looks like he voluntarily walked away without even considering the possibility.

Now, I can buy the argument that he didn't think it was possible, but any man who carries on a full-blown sexual relationship with a woman, and then just "ups and leaves without a word of goodbye" (per Lois in SR) needs to be slapped in the face!

Your whole point about him not being a dead beat dad seems hollow because Supes didn't stick around like a responsible man would have to find out. Also, he did not say goodbye before going on his quest because he was a coward (very UnSupermanish...if I do say so), which would have at least ended the relationship properly. Had he ended the relationship with a goodbye and left without knowing Lois was preggers because she didn't know herself, than I would stop saying Supes is dead beat. However, any man who carries on a mature, sexual relationship with a woman should end it like a man if he's ready to call it quits. The fact he "up and left" didn't give Lois the oppurtunity to tell him she was preggers, so....again...dead beat Supes took the coward routes to becoming a dead beat dad. The effect is still the same. Supes is a dead beat, irresponsible father.

Now, explain to me why Singer would put Supes in a situation like that? That's just the wrong situation for my main man Supes to be in. Singer had to know that, but he was determined to tell his isolation, socia-phobe story using the MOS...and that's just plain wrong IMO!

edit:

Showey...I do agree if a man and a woman end a relationship, and she doesn't tell him he is a father than he is exempt from being a dead beat. Yet, Supes never provided that oppurtunity to Lois because he was irresponsible, selfish, and whatever else socia-phobe threw in....to begin with from the jump start. That's the issue with the lack of context...at least for me. Stupid Singer should have cleared some of that **** up.

Anyway...simple equation...

Irresponsiblility+Cowardice= Dead Beat Dad

 

[Substance D]

I saw an opening, and I took it.

 

[charl_huntress]

I saw an opening, and I took it.

*wags finger at ya*

Naughty naughty

 

[X Knight]

well...Substance..that was certainly uncalled for.....and unexpected.........???????

 

[buggs0268]

Everything you are saying is relevant to the character of Superman, I agree. The problem is that it doesn't fit with in the Returns story. As another poster mentioned, within the realm of the story, Superman found out at the end. This means that the sequel will have a side story arc involving how Superman handles the situation. I think that Superman was given a reality check during Returns and realizes that just because he is Superman he can't have it his way.

He could have at least said "Your, Richard and I need to talk. I have to go but I will return. We need to come open and honest." Or something like that.

 

[Showtime]

It's very possible to be a dead beat dad if you bang a chick and leave without any words of farewell afterwards. You don't have to know the deed was accomplished to be a dead beat dad. That actually starts by not handling your responsiblities properly from the jump start.

In my opinion it is impossible, you can't care and nuture for your kid, if you don't know you have one. Granted, depending on the "vague history" what he did with Lois is in question, but he left her in the dust and without saying goodbye. Now he is paying for it. A dead beat dad is somebody who doesn't provide the proper child support, monetary or other, when ordered to by a court of law. If you want to get technical. Also our society uses it for a father who knowingly abandons his kid.

You are saying it's a simple equation but you defining Superman as a dead beat dad is way off.

 

[Showtime]

He could have at least said "Your, Richard and I need to talk. I have to go but I will return. We need to come open and honest." Or something like that.

Maybe Richard doesn't know yet? Who knows. Everything is vague. I don't think there was a time within the realm in the movie for that to take place, and adding it would be way to Spidermanish. Not everything has to be resolved at once, and I am sure it will hit the fan in the sequel. Your quote doesn't sound like something Superman would say, at least, not this Superman.

 

[Substance D]

Everything is vague.

And that's part of the reason the movie sucked so bad.

 

[charl_huntress]

In my opinion it is impossible, you can't care and nuture for your kid, if you don't know you have one. Granted, depending on the "vague history" what he did with Lois is in question, but he left her in the dust and without saying goodbye. Now he is paying for it. A dead beat dad is somebody who doesn't provide the proper child support, monetary or other, when ordered to by a court of law. If you want to get technical. Also our society uses it for a father who knowingly abandons his kid.

You are saying it's a simple equation but you defining Superman as a dead beat dad is way off.

So...obviously you are a supreme chauvinist (sp), right Showtime????? You believe it's okay for a man to spread his seed willy nilly? The fact he spreads it means nothing? The fact it took root means nothing? He doesn't have a responsibilty to nurture/nature it because he/father/seed spreader didn't know to begin with?

Please don't tell me you are advocating that? Please don't say that....


edit:

and lastly...please don't tell me YOU are trying to get technical with the term dead beat. LOL...we got to call out the lawyers now to get the terms right.

You are grasping at straws and should stop now.

What about having sex and being mature?

Is it okay to make mistakes with sex?

Is it okay for SUPERMAN TO MAKE MISTAKES WITH SEX??????

C'mon...fo' real. YOU are now grasping at straws trying to explain this crazy behavior from Superman!!!

Screw up teenagers make this mistake...BUT FRIGGIN SUPERMAN!!!! Give me a break!

What responsibility does that man have for his seed...because having sex with anyone can create children. So....that possiblity is always there, like "bats" pointed out.

SO...what are you saying? He is exempt because he didn't know? He can screw and leave...and still be called a "SUPERMAN" because he...can????

Please....just c'mon the **** on! You know that's crazy foul, and cray abberant for Superman.

BSinger f-ed that stuff up, and that's that!

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

There's nothing chauvinist about it. If you think that two consenting adults can't have sex and end a relationship without knowing the woman is actually going to get pregnant, then you're just wrong. It happens all the time, not just to teenagers.

They had sex, Superman had to end the relationship because of his obligations, left Earth, came back and found out he had a son. On top of that, he tells Lois that he'll be there for his son, something a dead beat father wouldn't do.

Superman is making up for his mistake.

 

[Showtime]

So...obviously you are a supreme chauvinist (sp), right Showtime????? You believe it's okay for a man to spread his seed willy nilly? The fact he spreads it means nothing? The fact it took root means nothing? He doesn't have a responsibilty to nurture/nature it because he/father/seed spreader didn't know to begin with?

Please don't tell me you are advocating that? Please don't say that....


edit:

and lastly...please don't tell me YOU are trying to get technical with the term dead beat. LOL...we got to call out the lawyers now to get the terms right.

You are grasping at straws and should stop now.

What about having sex and being mature?

Is it okay to make mistakes with sex?

Is it okay for SUPERMAN TO MAKE MISTAKES WITH SEX??????

C'mon...fo' real. YOU are now grasping at straws trying to explain this crazy behavior from Superman!!!

Screw up teenagers make this mistake...BUT FRIGGIN SUPERMAN!!!! Give me a break!

What responsibility does that man have for his seed...because having sex with anyone can create children. So....that possiblity is always there, like "bats" pointed out.

SO...what are you saying? He is exempt because he didn't know? He can screw and leave...and still be called a "SUPERMAN" because he...can????

Please....just c'mon the **** on! You know that's crazy foul, and cray abberant for Superman.

BSinger f-ed that stuff up, and that's that!

Why would I my integrity be in question because of my feelings towards a fictional character in a fictional enviornment such as a movie? It's plain to see that all I am saying is you are using the term wrong, he's not a deadbeat dad. You don't need lawyers to define it, just use the internet, it's all right there. Look it up. How am I grasping at straws, when its obvious the term you are using is wrong? You want to call him an ass, or any other name for leaving Lois then fine. I would say any father is exempt if he didn't know, wouldn't it be more important, how he reacted when he did find out? I think you are misplacing your anger, Superman left Lois after he had sex with her, that is seperate than being a deadbeat dad.

 

[charl_huntress]

There's nothing chauvinist about it. If you think that two consenting adults can't have sex and end a relationship without knowing the woman is actually going to get pregnant, then you're just wrong. It happens all the time, not just to teenagers.

They had sex, Superman had to end the relationship because of his obligations, left Earth, came back and found out he had a son. On top of that, he tells Lois that he'll be there for his son, something a dead beat father wouldn't do.

Superman is making up for his mistake.

That's the equivalent of throwing your "seed" into the wind, and I feel sorry for any sperm of your's that may have been caught. That's a shame for your child/children!

It seems, going from you and Showey, that most men don't think of babies/children/their seed, and they impact they may have on their lives. I guess this is because in the real scheme of things it is negligent to chavaunist like you and Showey.

However, for the woman she must think of this because it involves the use of her body.

Of course, the irresponsible man who is willing to throw his seed into the wind will screw anyone because he doesn't care that his flesh and blood might be living in the gutter after he has departed. He's not responsible or concerned enough to check it out later, and he may have left without a goodbye.

C'mon dude...this is usually the behavior of a teenager and some stupid ass men who have tons of kids everywhere!

I take offense to SUPERMAN being classed in the same category as YOU though!!!!! He's not like that, and he's has more character.

 

[Showtime]

It seems, going from you and Showey, that most men don't think of babies/children/their seed, and they impact they may have on their lives. I guess this is because in the real scheme of things it is negligent to chavaunist like you and Showey.

I don't know how somebody's opinion on a movie makes them a chavaunist. Superman is not a dead beat dad, your using the term wrong, so I don't know why you define people because you have misinformation.

 

[charl_huntress]

Why would I my integrity be in question because of my feelings towards a fictional character in a fictional enviornment such as a movie? It's plain to see that all I am saying is you are using the term wrong, he's not a deadbeat dad. You don't need lawyers to define it, just use the internet, it's all right there. Look it up. How am I grasping at straws, when its obvious the term you are using is wrong? You want to call him an ass, or any other name for leaving Lois then fine. I would say any father is exempt if he didn't know, wouldn't it be more important, how he reacted when he did find out? I think you are misplacing your anger, Superman left Lois after he had sex with her, that is seperate than being a deadbeat dad.

Oh man...okay You just characterized my whole life by a few posts on the message board! Way to turn it around!

See...you are already doing the Singerlover retreat, and I so proud of you for doing that!

You and I started this converstation on a fictional character, so please believe I didn't replace my own father with Superman while talking to you and some other folks.

Also, you must not have been listening when I said this applied to Superman and his character. You must have missed that.

Then you are on into how I got the term wrong, and that was your sole objection because I didn't use it correctly. Yet, you said you understood what I was saying when I used that term to begin with....so why are you questioning it again????

Yeah, you are doing your normal thing now, so I got you, Showey....continue on with your Singer LOVE

 

[Showtime]

http://encarta.msn.com/deadbeat+dad.html

- man not paying child support: a man who, upon divorce, separation, or desertion of his family, avoids or refuses payment of child support

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadbeat_dad

It has historically been used in reference to fathers who fail to act responsibly (as judged by wider society) as a father, that is neglecting their role to act as a parent or bread winner. These men may reside with their children or be separated through divorce or otherwise, with children in the care of their mother.

http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/deadbeat+dad

a father who neglects his responsibilities as a parent, esp. one who does not pay child support to his estranged wife.

 

[Showtime]

Oh man...okay You just characterized my whole life by a few posts on the message board! Way to turn it around!

See...you are already doing the Singerlover retreat, and I so proud of you for doing that!

You and I started this converstation on a fictional character, so please believe I didn't replace my own father with Superman while talking to you and some other folks.

Also, you must not have been listening when I said this applied to Superman and his character. You must have missed that.

Then you are on into how I got the term wrong, and that was your sole objection because I didn't use it correctly. Yet, you said you understood what I was saying when I used that term to begin with....so why are you questioning it again????

Yeah, you are doing your normal thing now, so I got you, Showey....continue on with your Singer LOVE

Right, I said I understand your points, but you are using the term wrong. So what is your point then? It's all there in black and white for everybody to read. Yes you are using the term wrong, SUPERMAN IS NOT A DEAD BEAT DAD? I love Singer because you can't figure out a definition on your own, come on. How can anybody have debate something with you seriously when you just call them names and revert to calling them Singerlovers when you have nothing else to say. Laughable.

 

[charl_huntress]

Right, I said I understand your points, but you are using the term wrong. So what is your point then? It's all there in black and white for everybody to read. Yes you are using the term wrong, SUPERMAN IS NOT A DEAD BEAT DAD? I love Singer because you can't figure out a definition on your own, come on. How can anybody have debate something with you seriously when you just call them names and revert to calling them Singerlovers when you have nothing else to say. Laughable.

Okay, Showtime, since you know and have repeatedly pointed out the WRONG term. Why don't you point out the right one???? Then I say that word and make it all clear for you. Then you won't laugh at me anymore okay.

deadbeat is the term I use. You think I am using it wrong...so sorry for you. I don't give a ****.

Laugh at that.

 

[Showtime]

Okay, Showtime, since you know and have repeatedly pointed out the WRONG term. Why don't you point out the right one???? Then I say that word and make it all clear for you. Then you won't laugh at me anymore okay.

deadbeat is the term I use. You think I am using it wrong...so sorry for you. I don't give a ****.

Laugh at that.

It is quite funny, Superman can't be responsible for a child he didn't know about, until he finds out about it. Which is the end of the movie, so now what he does from that point forward would fit your definition. What you are talking about is your anger for him leaving Lois, which I already said I can see your points on. That about sums...it up.

 

[charl_huntress]

It is quite funny, Superman can't be responsible for a child he didn't know about, until he finds out about it. Which is the end of the movie, so now what he does from that point forward would fit your definition. What you are talking about is your anger for him leaving Lois, which I already said I can see your points on. That about sums...it up.

Superman can't be responsible for a child he created. That's what you are saying about Superman. In essence, any man who screws is not responsible for his child if he didn't know about because he "screwed" up and didn't know it might happen.

A man can't be held responsible for tossing his seed into the wind.

YO....they just passed a regulation on that concerning AIDS though. I think you are wrong about that! Yet, you are inherently a chavunist (sp)...LOL....LOL...are you an AIDS spreader too.

I see why you like BSinger version of "Singerman". He supports not being responsible because you are lonely and ****ed up inside. You don't have to act right if you are all screwed up.