The Dark Knight Rises TDKR Reviews/Reactions (SPOILERS/Read At Your Own Risk) (NO DISCUSSION!)

[BestGirl]

I wanna start off by saying that I absolutely loved the film, but I feel like the last few minutes leave a few glaring (but forgivable) plot holes:

1. At what point did Batman eject from the Bat? If he wasn't in it flying over the ocean, why would Nolan insert a shot of him taking a deep breath in the Bat seconds before the explosion?

He probably ejected over the city, a long while before the bomb went off. We know the Bat was equipped with autopilot so it could fly itself for however long it had to.

2. When, and why, did Bruce Wayne decide to leave the mantle of the Bat to John Blake? He definitely showed the detective skills, idealism, and pain (from being an orphan) that it takes to be Batman, but he never really gave any evidence of being physically able to assume the role. If they were going to end the film by suggesting he eventually becomes a new Batman, they should've shown him winning a fight without a gun AT SOME POINT, to make it an easier pill to swallow.

I don't remember Bruce leaving the mantle to Blake. I think Blake just assumed it himself.

3. MY Bruce Wayne would never permanently leave Gotham behind, but I will accept that Nolan/Bale's interpretation is a slightly different Bruce Wayne who would. Fine. But what I do not accept is the plausibility of it. The film goes out of its way to show that Bruce Wayne is completely broke. This is unnecessary, because what the plot needed was for Miranda Tate to take over Wayne Enterprises. A hostile take-over would be possible without leaving Bruce Wayne without a cent to his name, and all it does is make it implausible that he and Selina could run away to Europe to live happily ever after. You could counter that Bruce Wayne was "broke" in the billionaire's sense of the word broke, meaning he probably still had a few million stashed away somewhere, but the film goes out of its way to show the power going off in Wayne manor, and to mention that all of his family's possessions are being sold to pay off his massive debt.

Yes, they did have Martha Wayne's pearl necklace, but how far would that take them? How much could it possibly be worth? Bruce Wayne going broke was unnecessary, and all they did by including that detail is write themselves into a corner where an otherwise lovely ending now has glaring plot-hole right through it.

Bruce probably has cash hidden away in Europe or other countries or something. If not, they must be living off of Selina's money.

EDIT:

4. How is John Blake expected to take up the mantle of the Bat, when the Batcave is now underneath an orphanage? Come on now.

He can move all that stuff to that garage Bruce had in TDK. Maybe Lucius can help.

A couple of complaints:

1. It would've been good to have a short scene, could've been twenty seconds, to show where Alfred was during the 5 month "no man's land" period in Gotham. If he left Gotham after leaving Wayne's employment, they could've easily had a shot of him watching events unfold on television from somewhere, just to give the audience on update on where he was. Seemed a bit weird to have him play a big part early on in the film and then just disappear until the end.

Agreed.

2. When John Blake goes to find out if Bruce left anything in his Last Will for him, and he asks the lady to search under his birth name, I was waiting for him to say "Richard Grayson". That would've been pretty cool. Instead, they patronized the audience by having his actual birth name be "Robin." That was silly. I mean, come on. Maybe they were worried most people wouldn't know who "Grayson" was, but this is 2012. If you weren't watching the movie with someone who got the reference, hit up Google, or IMDB, or Wikipedia. I just thought it was silly and kind of talking-down to the audience to make the guy's name Robin John Blake. Honestly.

I don't care about this but it's fine that you feel that way.

 

[BestGirl]

I actually knew what was going to happen (broadly, not specifically) when I saw Blake's reaction to the gun after having shot that League goon. There was really never a point where I didn't like him, I just found him an inherently likable guy.

Blake being Robin was one of the few elements of the plot I didn't know about ahead of time. I fought like crazy to avoid spoilers but I probably shouldn't've bothered. If you'd've told me that TDKR would end with Blake being Robin I'd've laughed in your face. It was the one thing I was convinced would never happen.

 

[Saint]

Blake being Robin was one of the few elements of the plot I didn't know about ahead of time. I fought like crazy to avoid spoilers but I probably shouldn't've bothered. If you'd've told me that TDKR would end with Blake being Robin I'd've laughed in your face. It was the one thing I was convinced would never happen.

That's exactly what I thought until I actually got in the theatre. I got the impression I was wrong about Blake's role pretty quickly--and the gun thing basically confirmed it for me.

 

[sethypants]

Bane wasn't just Talia's muscle. He was her protector, her lover in a way and saviour. Also theres a difference between how Bane was portrayed as Poison Ivy's muscle against this film.

 

[BestGirl]

Bane wasn't just Talia's muscle. He was her protector, her lover in a way and saviour. Also theres a difference between how Bane was portrayed as Poison Ivy's muscle against this film.

I agree. I felt like they were co-leaders of the LOS; a power couple.

 

[Denver]

Yeah, I'm just saying the way they portrayed the Bane character in his final moments devolved the character back - the build up was excellent for me up until when he decided to stay behind and announce that "this is when he kills Batman".
The biggest gripe I have with this is - and this is only my opinion -
Bruce went through an extreme amount of training to become Batman. As an audience we were invested in that to the point that no one cared that Bruce wasn't even Batman until 1/2 way through Batman Begins.
I am having a really tough time wrapping my head around the fact that Bruce would hand over the reigns to a rookie cop who was just pissed of with the structure of things in Gotham. That really took away a lot of the effort the creative team put into establishing why Bruce himself simply didn't become a cop. And then Bruce has his fortune and Lucius to build him all of the tech - Blake has nothing, but Bruce is fine with him being a vigilante? I'm prepared to suspend belief but its either suspend belief and go balls out and make this a comic book movie like the Avengers or make this realistic and this wasn't either in that regard for me.
And Bruce clearly had mental issues at the beginning of the movie, but that all disappeared by the end??
And Alfred destroyed the one thing that Bruce was clinging onto (Rachel) and then promptly left and didn't give a F about Gotham or Bruce until the city was safe again?? Is this the same Alfred in BB and TDK?? Hell no.

 

[wootbaby]

Yeah, I'm just saying the way they portrayed the Bane character in his final moments devolved the character back - the build up was excellent for me up until when he decided to stay behind and announce that "this is when he kills Batman".
The biggest gripe I have with this is - and this is only my opinion -
Bruce went through an extreme amount of training to become Batman. As an audience we were invested in that to the point that no one cared that Bruce wasn't even Batman until 1/2 way through Batman Begins.
I am having a really tough time wrapping my head around the fact that Bruce would hand over the reigns to a rookie cop who was just pissed of with the structure of things in Gotham. That really took away a lot of the effort the creative team put into establishing why Bruce himself simply didn't become a cop. And then Bruce has his fortune and Lucius to build him all of the tech - Blake has nothing, but Bruce is fine with him being a vigilante? I'm prepared to suspend belief but its either suspend belief and go balls out and make this a comic book movie like the Avengers or make this realistic and this wasn't either in that regard for me.
And Bruce clearly had mental issues at the beginning of the movie, but that all disappeared by the end??
And Alfred destroyed the one thing that Bruce was clinging onto (Rachel) and then promptly left and didn't give a F about Gotham or Bruce until the city was safe again?? Is this the same Alfred in BB and TDK?? Hell no.

you didn't really understand the movie in the context of the trilogy. read this post from somewhere else

[Blake] was so that Batman could retire. Nolan is handcuffed structurally in that there are 2 ways and only 2 ways that Bruce can leave Gotham. One, he dies. Two, he leaves the city in someone else's hands.

The fact that Blake was Robin was a fanservice, because he didn't have to be Robin but Batman did need a successor.


Thematically it plays into the idea of the 3 movies being 1 long movie. This trilogy isn't really about Batman... that Batman comes in cleans up crime and saves the city the end. All 3 movies are a journey that BRUCE WAYNE takes to try to come to resolution of his parents' death, becoming Batman along the way.

In movie 1 he thinks he needs to become a symbol... to have the city RISE (here Nolan creates symmetry with Bane in the 3rd movie). But all that does is inspire freaks in hockey pads shooting up ppl and a reaction from the criminal element. The 2nd movie deals with Batman cleaning up the mess from the 1st movie and trying to find a new symbol... Dent. But that fails because it's all based on a lie. The 3rd movie is Batman actually coming to grips with a resolution. He cannot save the city. He isn't meant to save the city. He is to do what he can, serve as that first link, then live the life that his father would have wanted for him. In this movie he realizes his job was to serve as the inspiration for that ONE MAN who would stand up and forge the next link. Because like Deebo in the ferry scene, there WILL be men to stand up to do the right thing, even on a prison barge. Batman realizes what he father knew... that he has responsibility to Gotham but also to himself to live his life.

Nolan movies have their issues (most of them overblown by haters and contrarians) but he is really great in the textures. Perhaps because he's British, he has full command of classical themes and symmetry present in Classical greek epics and classical music. Compare Batman's ultimate resolution to Ra's challenge in the first movie... to find a successor. Batman Began with Ra attempting to make Bruce his successor and Batman's journey ends with finding his own successor.

Compare Talia's failure to move past her desire for revenge for her father's death by destroying Gotham (which leads to her own demise) to Bruce's desire to save Gotham for the same reason (which would have led to his demise as well if he hadn't been able to escape that cycle)

Even Bane's mask. It's classical symmetry. Bruce's cowl has every part covered but the mouth. Bane's mask covers his mouth. Nolan thought out all the details.


and of course

dont know if this has been said, and some of you probably hit up AICN and read Harry's review but it seems to have escaped a common understanding that Bane in this movie wasn't really Bane from the comics... ie the character in Knightfall inspired by Doc Savage (Chuck Dixon even jokingly referred to Bane as "Doc Toxic") but he is the Mutant Leader in Miller's TDKR. The first half of the movie is TDKR with Batman's retirement following the death of a loved one, all that time passing, even the fight scene where the Mutant Leader breaks Batman with his minions watching. And at the end even how Selina comes in blasting to save Batman is reminiscent of Robin in the bat tank in TDKR.


overall I thought it was good. Nolan's movies are all complex so there's always some kinks that everyone has watching any of his movies. but if you're objective they are extraordinary movies. I probably enjoyed this one more as part of the trilogy than the 2nd one which was more of a standalone piece. and once again the amazing acting and direction that Nolan gets out of his performers elevates his movies, not to mention the spectacle and Nolan's penchant for twists

for me I realized probably when he tossed the gun that Blake was Nightwing. knowing he was Nightwing/Robin made me sure that Batman wasn't going to die when he flew off. why? because there's absolutely no reason why Nolan needed to kill Batman when he gave himself a better resolution with Batman's heir.

as for Rachel, the point is that Alfred wanted Bruce to move on. he was trying to tell Bruce that his father wouldn't have wanted him to dwell on some mythical past but move on with his life. like Bruce, Thomas Wayne lived his responsibilities to the city (and gave his life to the city) but he also lived his life. he was NO LESS COMMITTED to Gotham but he didn't have Bruce's twisted psychosis because he never suffered like Bruce.

Alfred cares about Bruce, not Gotham. the only reason he helped Bruce save Gotham was hoping that Bruce would work through his issues. when it became clear he would not, there was no reason for Alfred to stay. he is consistent in all 3 movies.

 

[Denver]

you didn't really understand the movie in the context of the trilogy. read this post from somewhere else



for me I realized probably when he tossed the gun that Blake was Nightwing. knowing he was Nightwing/Robin made me sure that Batman wasn't going to die when he flew off. why? because there's absolutely no reason why Nolan needed to kill Batman when he gave himself a better resolution with Batman's heir.

as for Rachel, the point is that Alfred wanted Bruce to move on. he was trying to tell Bruce that his father wouldn't have wanted him to dwell on some mythical past but move on with his life. like Bruce, Thomas Wayne lived his responsibilities to the city (and gave his life to the city) but he also lived his life. he was NO LESS COMMITTED to Gotham but he didn't have Bruce's twisted psychosis because he never suffered like Bruce.

Alfred cares about Bruce, not Gotham. the only reason he helped Bruce save Gotham was hoping that Bruce would work through his issues. when it became clear he would not, there was no reason for Alfred to stay. he is consistent in all 3 movies.

Um ok - thank you for clearing things up - have you ever considered taking a ph.D in ********?? Because you're a stellar candidate for one - just submit this nonsensical diatribe and your qualifications will speak for itself.

 

[wootbaby]

why you mad though? all your questions were answered

as for why Blake was just a cop, it's answered in Batman 1. training is nothing, will is everything

it doesn't matter if Blake is a rich guy or a poor guy or what his training is, the only important thing, which is established, is that he comes from the same place as Bruce and has the will to try to protect it

seriously though why are you mad that someone answered your questions? why would you even be angry about that other than being emo

 

[angryweb]

I don't remember Bruce leaving the mantle to Blake.

I think he recognized Blake was much like him the first time they met in the film the again in the car. Then Bruce left the gps location of the Batcave entrance after he "died".

 

[Micromind]

I would have preferred that Nolan did not include that part in the movie, also what was Gordon doing with the new Bat Signal ? Does he expect Batman to return ?

 

[Blue_Scholar]

as for why Blake was just a cop, it's answered in Batman 1. training is nothing, will is everything

it doesn't matter if Blake is a rich guy or a poor guy or what his training is, the only important thing, which is established, is that he comes from the same place as Bruce and has the will to try to protect it

I'm with you on this chief.

 

[spider-neil]

I have to say, I feel the last 3 minutes of the movie stop the film from being transendent to 'mearly' great, a 10/10 knocked down to a 9.5, an A+ knocked down to an A. I have to wonder if WB forced it on Nolan.

 

[the5timechamp]

I am somewhat disappointed overall in the movie...the biggest letdown though is the ending...we can talk about continuity and themes until the cows come home...but the bottom line is that Bruce should have died...
I honestly expected alfreds grief to cause him to die of a heart attack at the grave of the Waynes...
Granted that may be based on my expectations and hope for the movie, but my belief is strenghtened by how disappointed I was by the actual ending..

Also the "reveal" of Talia didnt work for me either...first off they dumped Bane unceremoniously and secondly the movie didnt do a good enough job of investing me in tatalia...thus her betrayal of batman didnt really carry much weight when it happened.

 

[Sharkboy]

I'm the opposite, i felt the ending knocked it up from great to awesome. Just the execution alone in how we are led to believe it's over for Bruce only to find that he's found the peace he was looking for, the peace that Alfred has been begging him to have this whole time.

Bruce starts off the film ready to die for Gotham, he would have gladly driven off with that bomb and died, it's thinking in absolutes, if he saves everyone then it doesn't matter if he dies. That's the thinking that has been bred out of TDK, the world has forced him to become bitter and cynical, he's lost the woman he's loved, there's nothing out there for him, not just in terms of batman, but bruce wayne, He's an empty shell. It's his big realisation in the pit, where he needs to embrace his fear (a recurring theme in the first film) in this regards his fear of death, to value his life that finally knocks him out of being Batman.

It's why he makes the jump only after refusing the safety line, because he knows if he falls, he dies, it's that fear that allows him to make it and succeed, and that fear that allows him to escape the Bat and live his life the way alfred wanted him to.

It's a real personal story, which is why i think it's futile to compare it to TDK, which was a pretty impersonal film that dealt with society as a whole and socio politcal themes and concepts rather than characters. Despite TDKR's scale it really is down to bruce wayne and his acceptance on letting go of the monster he created in batman begins.

My initial qualm about the concept of him leaving is that, i wasn't really convinced that he left Gotham a better place than it was, and then i realised the peace in the beginning of the film wasn't a fake peace, it was real...but based on a lie. A lie that allowed the peace to crumble very easily, but now they have found a new saviour, icon to inspire the people of gotham, it's not as quick a fix as the Harvey one, and thats the point...Bruce realises he can't be the one to save gotham city, the people need to save it themselves and the only thing he can do, is to be the one to serve as the inspiration, the shining light that shows the way to it's salvation (in which he suceeds) and nothing shows this inspiration more than the continuing of his legacy with John Robin Blake.

I think once people get over the initial story parts like "robin is the new batman, bruce wayne retires!" and get to the real point of what this all means in the context of not just the trilogy but the film itself, then you'll find the film a hell of a lot more thematically rewarding than you'd have thought initially. I've seen the film twice now (going to see it again later) and with those themes in mind, everything starts to make sense and gel in the right way.

 

[3-D]

Spoiler

Great question on the spoilers thread. How in the hell was fox examining the remains of the Bat at the end to find out Bruce fixed the auto-pilot? Shouldn't The Bat be, ya know, vaporized? I can't wait to see what kind of convoluted explanation people come up with for that one. Hard enough to believe Bruce got far enough away when they show Batman in the Bat seconds before the bomb explodes.

 

[Micromind]

Spoiler

Great question on the spoilers thread. How in the hell was fox examining the remains of the Bat at the end to find out Bruce fixed the auto-pilot? Shouldn't The Bat be, ya know, vaporized? I can't wait to see what kind of convoluted explanation people come up with for that one. Hard enough to believe Bruce got far enough away when they show Batman in the Bat seconds before the bomb explodes.

There were two Bats, later on, engineers tell (looking at the second Bat.)Fox that software bug had been fixed and that auto pilot was operational, meaning that someone (Bruce) had loaded "bug free" version and loaded it in both Bats.

the bat was at mach 1 speed and before that Bruce ejects and turns on the auto pilot mode.

 

[Sharkboy]

Spoiler

Great question on the spoilers thread. How in the hell was fox examining the remains of the Bat at the end to find out Bruce fixed the auto-pilot? Shouldn't The Bat be, ya know, vaporized? I can't wait to see what kind of convoluted explanation people come up with for that one. Hard enough to believe Bruce got far enough away when they show Batman in the Bat seconds before the bomb explodes.

Good point on the first one, I don't know nearly enough about neutron bombs to know how much of the Bat would have remained. As for Bruce being in the Bat right up to it's explosion, it's a misleading scene, not a plot hole, for all we know he escaped miles before it exploded, it's hardly the point.

 

[3-D]

There were two Bats, later on, engineers tell (looking at the second Bat.)Fox that software bug had been fixed and that auto pilot was operational, meaning that someone (Bruce) had loaded "bug free" version and loaded it in both Bats.

the bat was at mach 1 speed and before that Bruce ejects and turns on the auto pilot mode.

Wrong. They were CLEARLY examining what was supposed to be The Bat from the film. They even do a scan on that Bat and say that Bruce Wayne fixed the auto-pilot. And saying it comes in black was meant to be a nod to the first film, not an implication that there were multiple Bats. But, there it is, the convoluted explanation I was waiting for. Did Bruce just happen to fix the auto-pilot on this second unseen Bat at some random time just for the hell of it? Or are you saying when he fixed his, the other automatically was fixed as well? Come on, its a plot hole, and thats ok. Its still a great movie.

 

[Micromind]

I need to watch it again but I think that there were two of them, many other posters have said this.

And yes, he could have loaded the new software in both Bats, why would he keep second Bat with a software bug ?

 

[LostSon88]

Um ok - thank you for clearing things up - have you ever considered taking a ph.D in ********?? Because you're a stellar candidate for one - just submit this nonsensical diatribe and your qualifications will speak for itself.

This is why I can't stand the n00bs that come out whenever a new movie is released. They post for the sake to b**** and complain then when a poster answers their b****ing with a respectuful and decent response, they'll still b**** and resort to condescending to said poster.

 

[Micromind]

This is why I can't stand the n00bs that come out whenever a new movie is released. They post for the sake to b**** and complain then when a poster answers their b****ing with a respectuful and decent response, they'll still b**** and resort to condescending to said poster.

Same here, I tried to explain many points but some keep going on ...

 

[LostSon88]

Edit.

 

[Herolee10]

Isn't this labeled as a "no discussion" thread?

 

[LostSon88]

My bad...