Teacher leaves wife and kids for high school student

[DV8]

Yes, because you can really compare REAL PEOPLE and REAL SITUATIONS to a fictional movie. I also saw 'American Psycho' in theaters and enjoyed it. That must mean I think murdering people is cool too. You'll really just grasp at any straws to make whatever strained point you can, won't you?

Lol . . . I'm done arguing w/ that dude; there's no point anymore . . . or should I say there never was to begin with; notice any valid points we make he retorts to with attempts at humor and he just won't admit he's wrong . . . he knows he looks dumb now; but admitting that like a mature adult isn't something he seems capable of doing

 

[El Payaso]

oh, you mean like what I said right here above??

I can't have replied anything to that.

In fact, I did not.

I replied to things like "even if this guy wasn't boning an 18-year old student he would still look REALLY ****in creepy to me." Admitting that, even if the guy were innocent, you'd treat him as guilty. Your base to say that? "me and 90% of everyone else that sees a photo of him he looks like the child molesting/murdering version of Stanley Tucci in The "Lovely Bones"." He looks like it, he is.

thanks for playing but the only one you look cool or smart or witty to is yourself . . . but I guess that's kind of what you're going for

At least you're getting this from your observation and evidence, not from the way I look.

Yes, because you can really compare REAL PEOPLE and REAL SITUATIONS to a fictional movie. I also saw 'American Psycho' in theaters and enjoyed it. That must mean I think murdering people is cool too. You'll really just grasp at any straws to make whatever strained point you can, won't you?

Did this Hook guy get perma-ban from teaching?

I understand he resigned himself. But if he was revealed as a perv that's instant perma-banning.

Lol . . . I'm done arguing w/ that dude; there's no point anymore . . . or should I say there never was to begin with;

Dude, you quit pages ago ("anyway . . . I'm done with this thread" *people hitting a dead horse emoticon*) and I bet you were going to come back. Based on this evidence I say now you'll be back once again.

notice any valid points we make he retorts to with attempts at humor and he just won't admit he's wrong . . .

Name one of those points. Seriously. I'll admit it if it's valid and (if possible) will point out where I did before.

he knows he looks dumb now; but admitting that like a mature adult isn't something he seems capable of doing

Well of course. I have presumed someone innocent untill found guilty. That has to be dumb and no one smart could believe such thing.

On the other hand, if someone looks creepy, it's just natural to judge him based on that, under the premise of the duck (even when you admit that what looks like a duck could be a platypus).

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

"Jokes" would imply you actually said something funny.

 

[El Payaso]

"Jokes" would imply you actually said something funny.

Actually no.

But that'd imply someone able to get written things.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Actually no.

But that'd imply someone able to get written things.

Actually yes.

But in the interest of not veering off-topic, maybe you can start another multi-page thread where you'll get proven wrong again, but refuse to accept it.

Just in case this thread in which you've been reduced to justifying your earlier defense of a sex-offender wasn't humiliating enough.

 

[The Morningstar]

Sorry, but you're wrong. It's not even a matter of an opinion. Just because she agreed to be in a relationship with him doesn't negate her ability to be a victim of his lies and manipulations, which is how he got her to move in with him, drop out of school and leave her family and friends. Yes, he did not force her at gun point, he didn't have to - his predatory tactics saw fit that she was wrapped around his finger enough. She is a victim of his lies and manipulations. As I said before, her age has nothing to do with that fact.

Is there evidence that she was lied to and manipulated? Or is this guess work?

I could take a guess that she knew what she was doing, was a little **** and liked the idea of ****ing an older, more sexually experienced man. Who says she wasn't the predator, the manipulator?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012...t-former-teacher-for-sexual-assault-on-minor/

Interesting turn of events.

The girl isn't a victim but that man is a sleeze for becoming a teacher in order to date teenagers. If these allegations are true it proves that this guy isn't just some innocent fellow who fell in love with one of his students, he seems to have thought that the school was some sort of dating ground for sleazy old ****ers.

 

[The Morningstar]

Oh so there is evidence. Ok, so the guy is a dirty old ****er!

 

[El Payaso]

Actually yes.

But in the interest of not veering off-topic, maybe you can start another multi-page thread where you'll get proven wrong again, but refuse to accept it.

Just in case this thread in which you've been reduced to justifying your earlier defense of a sex-offender wasn't humiliating enough.

Heh, reduced to lecturing you on proper reading. I never defended a sex-offender.

 

[Dragon]

Oh so there is evidence. Ok, so the guy is a dirty old ****er!

That isn't evidence that he lied or manipulated her. It's just evidence that he has a thing for young girls.

Again I see an hypocrisy here. Why is it okay for an 18 year old scumbag to have sex with an 18 year old girl but not a 41 year old? Let's remember that there are ALOT of young girls out there that don't live up to this archaic image of innocence (Which probably never existed to begin with) that keeps being applied to the girl in this case.

I mean let's flip it. If an 18 year old guy gets hit on by a 41 year old like Jennifer Connelly for example- would anyone be raising a stink?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

That isn't evidence that he lied or manipulated her. It's just evidence that he has a thing for young girls.

Again I see an hypocrisy here. Why is it okay for an 18 year old scumbag to have sex with an 18 year old girl but not a 41 year old? Let's remember that there are ALOT of young girls out there that don't live up to this archaic image of innocence (Which probably never existed to begin with) that keeps being applied to the girl in this case.

I mean let's flip it. If an 18 year old guy gets hit on by a 41 year old like Jennifer Connelly for example- would anyone be raising a stink?

You think it's fine for teachers to be dating their 17 and 18 year old highschool students? So if he didn't resign he should have been allowed to continue to teach?

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

That isn't evidence that he lied or manipulated her. It's just evidence that he has a thing for young girls.

Again I see an hypocrisy here. Why is it okay for an 18 year old scumbag to have sex with an 18 year old girl but not a 41 year old? Let's remember that there are ALOT of young girls out there that don't live up to this archaic image of innocence (Which probably never existed to begin with) that keeps being applied to the girl in this case.

I mean let's flip it. If an 18 year old guy gets hit on by a 41 year old like Jennifer Connelly for example- would anyone be raising a stink?

Dragon you just sound like a straight up misogynist. I don't feel like treading old ground. The emotional maturity of an impressionable 18 year old and someone who's 41 has already been brought up countless times. So is the fact he abused a position of power and betrayed the teacher-student relationship (not to mention the betrayal of his wife and kids, but I digress).
Also enough with the false equivalent of an 18 year old dude and a 40 year old woman. It is sleazy, but the 18 year old guy isn't getting penetrated. He still retains an element of dominance and control that an 18 year old girl would lack in the same scenario with a 40 year old man.



EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were calling the 18 year old girl a "scumbag." I see you meant another 18 year old being the scumbag. You're not a misogynist. But you are still wrong.

 

[Dragon]

You think it's fine for teachers to be dating their 17 and 18 year old highschool students? So if he didn't resign he should have been allowed to continue to teach?

No I don't think it's fine for a teacher to be dating their students. There are ethical questions such as the performance of both the student and teacher in school. There are questions about what happens after the relationship goes bad. But I also don't think its fine for teenagers to be screwing everyone in their path. But there wouldn't be any issues raised over that.

There are gray areas here. I'm saying its hypocritical for people to simply say that this guy is evil because he dated a student but turn the other way to things that are equally wrong. A big part of the attack on this guy is the casting of this girl as some sort of victim, when she may not be at all. Simply being 18 does not make someone innocent and subject to manipulation.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Dragon you just sound like a straight up misogynist. I don't feel like treading old ground. The emotional maturity of an impressionable 18 year old and someone who's 41 has already been brought up countless times. So is the fact he abused a position of power and betrayed the teacher-student relationship (not to mention the betrayal of his wife and kids, but I digress).
Also enough with the false equivalent of an 18 year old dude and a 40 year old woman. It is sleazy, but the 18 year old guy isn't getting penetrated. He still retains an element of dominance and control that an 18 year old girl would lack in the same scenario with a 40 year old man.



EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were calling the 18 year old girl a "scumbag." I see you meant another 18 year old being the scumbag. You're not a misogynist. But you are still wrong.

But... the 18 year old guy is still "young" and "impressionable" - just because he can make his own choices and have a level of control doesn't mean he can't be a victim to her lies and manipulations!

RIGHT??? RIGHT???

If it's different for a guy because he "penetrates", then this girl isn't automatically a victim either. She still made her own decisions to be with this guy.

You just showed your hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

But... the 18 year old guy is still "young" and "impressionable" - just because he can make his own choices and have a level of control doesn't mean he can't be a victim to her lies and manipulations!

RIGHT??? RIGHT???

CAPS??? CAPS???

I said it was still sleazy. I don't approve. I just don't think the two situations can be compared though for obvious power-play reasons.

If it's different for a guy because he "penetrates", then this girl isn't automatically a victim either. She still made her own decisions to be with this guy.

I'm not following your logic at all. That's okay, because I haven't followed your logic the whole thread.

You just showed your hypocrisy and double standards.

Sorry, no. Try again.

 

[Dragon]

Dragon you just sound like a straight up misogynist. I don't feel like treading old ground. The emotional maturity of an impressionable 18 year old and someone who's 41 has already been brought up countless times.

And it's BS. By the age of 18 a person is reasonably expected, based on life experience and education, to be able to make the right choices. 18 years old are sent off to war to make life and death decisions. 18 year olds drive cars, work, become parents. If an 18 year old commits 1st degree murder, they can be executed. Your making excuses for stupid decisions on their part doesn't change reality.

So is the fact he abused a position of power and betrayed the teacher-student relationship (not to mention the betrayal of his wife and kids, but I digress).

What position of power? He's a frickin' teacher. He couldn't do anything to harm the girl if she rejected him. And if he tried, there were more than enough ways that she could've combatted that. She was in more of a position of power than he was. Unless she was brain-addelled there was no manipulation there.

I agree that he was wrong for betraying his wife however.

Also enough with the false equivalent of an 18 year old dude and a 40 year old woman. It is sleazy, but the 18 year old guy isn't getting penetrated. He still retains an element of dominance and control that an 18 year old girl would lack in the same scenario with a 40 year old man. And no offense man, but you sound like you have a couple issues with the fairer sex

Actually you sound like the misogynist. "The fairer sex" - "He still retains an element of dominance and control" "He isn't being penetrated". That you cast a female as being dominated in the sex act makes it clear that you don't see them as equals. The act of penetration has nothing to do with dominance. For sex to be pleasurable it has to be about the woman being receptive. And a man can be raped.

 

[El Payaso]

The funny thing is that a 18 year old girl is automatically manipulable according to JJJ's Ulcer. And yet the guy's wife was far older than 18 and was also manipulated by him.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

No I don't think it's fine for a teacher to be dating their students. There are ethical questions such as the performance of both the student and teacher in school. There are questions about what happens after the relationship goes bad. But I also don't think its fine for teenagers to be screwing everyone in their path. But there wouldn't be any issues raised over that.

There are gray areas here. I'm saying its hypocritical for people to simply say that this guy is evil because he dated a student but turn the other way to things that are equally wrong. A big part of the attack on this guy is the casting of this girl as some sort of victim, when she may not be at all. Simply being 18 does not make someone innocent and subject to manipulation.

I think that it's wrong even if the sex of the teacher and student were reversed.

I'm sorry but I'm not progressive enough to think that teachers should be dating their 14 to 18 year old students. Call me old fashion but I think that it is wrong no matter the sex of the teacher and student. You don't send your children to school to get ****ed by the teacher, even if they want to get ****ed. It's the teacher's job to not just do what ever a high school student asks them too.

Kind of like if one's daughter asked her father to marry her, one wouldn't really marry their daughter and carry on as a married couple.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

CAPS??? CAPS???

I said it was still sleazy. I don't approve. I just don't think the two situations can be compared though for obvious power-play reasons.



I'm not following your logic at all. That's okay, because I haven't followed your logic the whole thread.



Sorry, no. Try again.

Doesn't surprise me that you don't "follow my logic"

I said, the girl is 18, she was able to make her own decisions, and of her own choice and consent, which was legal due to her being 18, she chose to be in the relationship. You said that didn't matter, her consent didn't mean she wasn't a victim of manipulation.

Then you turned around and said "it's different" for an 18 year old guy with an older woman, because the guy still "penetrates", thus keeps a level of "dominance". But with your logic considering the situation with the girl, it shouldn't make a difference. Just because the guy retains a level of "consent" doesn't mean he wasn't a victim to the 41 year old woman's manipulation and lying. If the girl is a "victim" in this situation, so is the guy. You claiming otherwise is a double standard, and hypocritical.

This girl is not a victim when she willingly consented to be in this relationship with this man. It may have been a wrong relationship to be in, but she is a big girl and allowed to make her own choices and her own mistakes. Just because she probably made a mistake doesn't make her a victim.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

And it's BS. By the age of 18 a person is reasonably expected, based on life experience and education, to be able to make the right choices. 18 years old are sent off to war to make life and death decisions. 18 year olds drive cars, work, become parents. If an 18 year old commits 1st degree murder, they can be executed. Your making excuses for stupid decisions on their part doesn't change reality.

What is legally acceptable at a certain age does not mean it is morally right. And if I recall 18 year olds cannot purchase alcohol. Why, because the government does not trust that they're mature enough in their decision-making abilities to handle it. I wonder why you didn't mention that when you were listing off things an 18 year old can do. In certain states the government also executed mentally ******ed people until recently. So I wouldn't use the capital punishment thing as an example either.

The average 18 year old does not have the reasoning skills and emotional maturity that the average 40 year old has. You can argue that point all you want, but you would still be wrong.

What position of power? He's a frickin' teacher.

Seriously?

You just answered your own question.

He couldn't do anything to harm the girl if she rejected him.

He could fail her.

And if he tried, there were more than enough ways that she could've combatted that. She was in more of a position of power than he was.

Man. I can't believe you actually believe what you're writing. An 18 year old highschool student was in more of a position of power than a 41 year old married teacher. Read that again to yourself and see if it sounds any better the second time. Damn those 18 year old highschool girls! Who can resist their awesome power!

Unless she was brain-addelled there was no manipulation there.

Yes, one has to be brain-addled to be manipulated.

I agree that he was wrong for betraying his wife however.

Oh good.

Actually you sound like the misogynist. "The fairer sex" - "He still retains an element of dominance and control" "He isn't being penetrated". That you cast a female as being dominated in the sex act makes it clear that you don't see them as equals. The act of penetration has nothing to do with dominance.

Actually, it has a lot to do with dominance. Talk to any rape-victim.

For sex to be pleasurable it has to be about the woman being receptive. And a man can be raped.

Sure, a man can be raped. And he can be penetrated. But then we're talking about something else entirely.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Okay we get it, she isn't a victim! I agree she isn't a victim but that still doesn't change my view that, male or female, high school teachers shouldn't be dating their students and that it is not the same as an office romance.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

The funny thing is that a 18 year old girl is automatically manipulable according to JJJ's Ulcer. And yet the guy's wife was far older than 18 and was also manipulated by him.

More like betrayed. I doubt she predicted he would one day abandon her and his children to be with a teenage student. But I'm sure he manipulated her plenty too. And I never said 40 year olds can't be manipulated. And I never said an 18 year old is automatically manipulable. I merely said teenagers are much more impressionable, emotionally immature and easily manipulated than people in their 40's.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

What is legally acceptable at a certain age does not mean it is morally right. And if I recall 18 year olds cannot purchase alcohol. Why, because the government does not trust that they're mature enough in their decision-making abilities to handle it. I wonder why you didn't mention that when you were listing off things an 18 year old can do. In certain states the government also executed mentally ******ed people until recently. So I wouldn't use the capital punishment thing as an example either.

But - that same government, that doesn't think an 18 year old is mature enough to drink alcohol, DOES trust that they are mature enough to decide for themselves who they want to ****...

Okay we get it, she isn't a victim! I agree she isn't a victim but that still doesn't change my view that, male or female, high school teachers shouldn't be dating their students and that it is not the same as an office romance.

Nobody disagreed with that, to the best of my knowledge. I merely said that, as an 18 year old, she has the ability and the right to decide for herself if she wants to partake in such a relationship without being a victim. I never said that such a relationship was right.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Personally, I do think that a high school teacher has a certain power over a student that makes a romantic relationship horribly lopsided in favor of the teacher.

 

[Dragon]

I think that it's wrong even if the sex of the teacher and student were reversed.

I'm sorry but I'm not progressive enough to think that teachers should be dating their 14 to 18 year old students. Call me old fashion but I think that it is wrong no matter the sex of the teacher and student. You don't send your children to school to get ****ed by the teacher, even if they want to get ****ed. It's the teacher's job to not just do what ever a high school student asks them too.

I stated above that I don't think it's ethical for a teacher to date a student, and my reasons for that. I'm arguing however, that there's a hypocrisy here. That the teacher is a dispicable predator and the girl is an innocent victim. And frankly, it isn't any worse of a tragedy than much of the common sexual habits of teenagers. There are loads of bad choices that young people make (older folks too- but that's another discussion).

Kind of like if one's daughter asked her father to marry her, one wouldn't really marry their daughter and carry on as a married couple.

It's not the same thing at all. A daughter marrying her father is not only psychologically damaging, but it could lead to serious birth defects of off-spring. A father is a TRUE authority figure, in that the daughter's welfare is dependent upon him. Very different from a teacher.