Teacher leaves wife and kids for high school student

[Thebumwhowalks]

Personally, I do think that a high school teacher has a certain power over a student that makes a romantic relationship horribly lopsided in favor of the teacher.

Aye, and I don't think I have read anyone in the thread who disagrees.
But, on the subject of comparing it to 'office romances', like you did, there is also the circumsatnce where the boss of a workplace automatically has power over his employees. So you could say that a similar position of power, that makes 'a romantic relationship horribly lopsided in favor of the' boss, exists in such a situation.

edit: I mean, from what I understand of this discussion, you've agreed with Dragon, that it's a young woman we're talking about here, the 18 yr old, so you must see that such a situation exists between boss and employee too.
I mean, what would happen if the boss of an organisation was jealous of the relationship between two employees? and excercised his power to do everything he could to break that relationship up, so he could swoop in and try his hand with the employee he fancied? I'm sure it happens, the exact same kind of abuse of power can happen easily.

 

[Darthphere]

Personally, I do think that a high school teacher has a certain power over a student that makes a romantic relationship horribly lopsided in favor of the teacher.

It's funny because while I agree, in that relationship the teacher has a lot more to lose than the student.

 

[The Morningstar]

Dragon you just sound like a straight up misogynist. I don't feel like treading old ground. The emotional maturity of an impressionable 18 year old and someone who's 41 has already been brought up countless times. So is the fact he abused a position of power and betrayed the teacher-student relationship (not to mention the betrayal of his wife and kids, but I digress).
Also enough with the false equivalent of an 18 year old dude and a 40 year old woman. It is sleazy, but the 18 year old guy isn't getting penetrated. He still retains an element of dominance and control that an 18 year old girl would lack in the same scenario with a 40 year old man.



EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were calling the 18 year old girl a "scumbag." I see you meant another 18 year old being the scumbag. You're not a misogynist. But you are still wrong.

So you don't believe an 18 year old girl can be a "predator" or manipulator?

You know, some girls just like sex, just like guys. Some girls like sex with older men, just like some guys like sex with older women.

I don't see how it's such an impossibility that the girl was the one manipulating and making moves here.

Yes the guy should have known better, but i think it's a bit naive and ignorant to assume he was the one doing the manipulating and that she is completely innocent and not responsible for her own actions. I mean, she isn't a child, she doesn't have learning difficulties, she clearly knew what she was getting into, whether she was the predator or the prey.

 

[Dragon]

What is legally acceptable at a certain age does not mean it is morally right. And if I recall 18 year olds cannot purchase alcohol. Why, because the government does not trust that they're mature enough in their decision-making abilities to handle it. I wonder why you didn't mention that when you were listing off things an 18 year old can do. In certain states the government also executed mentally ******ed people until recently. So I wouldn't use the capital punishment thing as an example either.

I didn't mention alchohol because it's illegal for anyone under 21 to drink. So are you then saying that 18 year olds shouldn't be legally able to do any of the things I mentioned? What about sex period, should anyone of 18 not be able to consent to it all? And please tell what age a person can be relied upon to make a reasonable decision?

The average 18 year old does not have the reasoning skills and emotional maturity that the average 40 year old has. You can argue that point all you want, but you would still be wrong.

So what makes you right? Your desire to be so? There's nothing to suggest that age alone is the factor in good judgement.

Seriously?

You just answered your own question.

He could fail her.

Yeah that's a reason to let him into her pants. Of course if he failed her for rejecting his advances she couldn't report him for sexual harassment. An 18 year old couldn't be expected to figure that out.

Man. I can't believe you actually believe what you're writing. An 18 year old highschool student was in more of a position of power than a 41 year old married teacher. Read that again to yourself and see if it sounds any better the second time. Damn those 18 year old highschool girls! Who can resist their awesome power!

Well, considering the way things turned out- I'm proven right. This girl is viewed by everyone including you as the innocent victim and he the evil predator. Again, a simple cry of sexual harassment would have ruined this man's life, even if it weren't true. He's been arrested over an allegation of something that happened 14 years ago.

Yes, one has to be brain-addled to be manipulated.

In this case, she knew what she was getting into. She could have said no, but she didn't. Thus she's a willing participent.

Actually, it has a lot to do with dominance. Talk to any rape-victim.

That has nothing to do with penetration in the consentual sex act. The fact that you equate rape with consentual sex again suggests more issues on your part than mine.

Sure, a man can be raped. And he can be penetrated. But then we're talking about something else entirely.

A man can be raped by a woman, where no penetration is involved.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

He should read for children in Kindergarten

 

[El Payaso]

More like betrayed. I doubt she predicted he would one day abandon her and his children to be with a teenage student. But I'm sure he manipulated her plenty too. And I never said 40 year olds can't be manipulated. And I never said an 18 year old is automatically manipulable. I merely said teenagers are much more impressionable, emotionally immature and easily manipulated than people in their 40's.

In this case, both were equally manipulable. Both were betrayed. It's like age doesn't warrantee anything, right? 18, 40, in this case made no difference.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Here's what I've gathered from this thread:

Men are bad because they penetrate, Women are always good (victims), regardless of age. All sex is rape. Gloria Steinem would be proud.

Now, wouldn't it be a hoot if we found out Hooker was the one who liked to be penetrated, and Jordan was the penetrator?

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I didn't mention alchohol because it's illegal for anyone under 21 to drink. So are you then saying that 18 year olds shouldn't be legally able to do any of the things I mentioned? What about sex period, should anyone of 18 not be able to consent to it all? And please tell what age a person can be relied upon to make a reasonable decision?

Haven't we gone over the legal versus moral implications about ten times? Sure, she can legally screw a 40 year old. Hell, she can legally screw a 100 year old. But when the older male figure is a married man and her teacher and his affair forces her to leave school and become estranged from her mother, then I feel the guy is the manipulative party and the party that should know better.

So what makes you right? Your desire to be so? There's nothing to suggest that age alone is the factor in good judgement.

Let me ask, how old are you? Do you honestly think you were more mature and responsible at 18, than you are today? If you answered no, you proved I'm right. If you answered yes, you're dishonest. The average teenager isn't as emotionally mature or wise as the average person in their 40's. This is just a basic fact of life, no matter how much you wish it wasn't.

Yeah that's a reason to let him into her pants. Of course if he failed her for rejecting his advances she couldn't report him for sexual harassment. An 18 year old couldn't be expected to figure that out.

You love to simplify arguments, don't you? Sometimes, especially at that age, people are afraid to report sexual advances or harrassment because of the embarrassment that would result from explaining it to their parents. You asked me how he could harm her, I gave you a reasonable answer. Whether you choose to accept that answer or not, I don't really care.

Well, considering the way things turned out- I'm proven right. This girl is viewed by everyone including you as the innocent victim and he the evil predator.

How is that you being proven right? Is that on Bizarro world? Sounds like I, and everyone else who called this guy out from the very beginning for the scumbag he was, was proven right. Keep spinning though. Whatever.

Again, a simple cry of sexual harassment would have ruined this man's life, even if it weren't true. He's been arrested over an allegation of something that happened 14 years ago.

I'm not saying she didn't have feelings for him. She is an idiot and she did make a bad decision. As I've said, probably a dozen times now, she had emotionally immature feelings that he manipulated. He was an authority figure, entrusted to teach her, not start a sexual relationship. He abused his authority and position. So maybe she didn't wish to report him, maybe she did fall for him. But when you're 18, there's so much about the world that you don't understand and due to a lack of life experience combined with a surplus of teenage angst and insecurity, you make bad decisions. He exploited that. That's why I think he's a total *****ebag and scumbag. Well, that and the leaving his family thing, but I digress.

That has nothing to do with penetration in the consentual sex act. The fact that you equate rape with consentual sex again suggests more issues on your part than mine.

"Consensual." And you completely missed my point, which concerned comparing a 40 year old woman/18 year old man relationship to the 40 year old man/18 year old woman relationship. I said both were sleazy, but believed because of dominance issues the latter was sleazier than the former. I wasn't condoning one, while condemning the other. Just saying one was worse. And you never even acknowledged my edit to that post when I too graciously admitted I misread a sentence in your post and retracted the "misogynist" comment. You're pretty damn petty.

I think you're looking for a fight and not debating me in good faith.

 

[Dragon]

Haven't we gone over the legal versus moral implications about ten times? Sure, she can legally screw a 40 year old. Hell, she can legally screw a 100 year old. But when the older male figure is a married man and her teacher and his affair forces her to leave school and become estranged from her mother, then I feel the guy is the manipulative party and the party that should know better.

How did the affair FORCE her to leave school or be estranged from her mother? Maybe she left school because she was lazy and didn't like it. Maybe she was estranged from her mother because she was a meddling *****. Maybe her mother wasn't a very good guide for her. Clearly there were some problems going on at home if the girl sought a doomed relationship with this jerk.

Let me ask, how old are you? Do you honestly think you were more mature and responsible at 18, than you are today? If you answered no, you proved I'm right. If you answered yes, you're dishonest. The average teenager isn't as emotionally mature or wise as the average person in their 40's. This is just a basic fact of life, no matter how much you wish it wasn't.

Hilarious. You essentially set up that scenario so no matter what, you're right.

Here goes- I was a father when I was 18. My wife was 16 at the time- and I'll tell you- she was and is the most mature person I've ever met. As a teen her every decision and desire was what was best for her family. She was and is a great wife and mother. And I've known quite a few other women who became wives/mothers in their teens, and did a damn good job at it. So to hell with your assumption about teenagers and their lack of good judgment.

You love to simplify arguments, don't you? Sometimes, especially at that age, people are afraid to report sexual advances or harrassment because of the embarrassment that would result from explaining it to their parents.

Obviously not in her case, since she not only let her mother know about the relationship- but moved out of the house.

You asked me how he could harm her, I gave you a reasonable answer. Whether you choose to accept that answer or not, I don't really care.

What reasonable answer was that? Failing her? that's it? Since she actually left school- failing clearly wasn't a huge concern.

How is that you being proven right? Is that on Bizarro world? Sounds like I, and everyone else who called this guy out from the very beginning for the scumbag he was, was proven right. Keep spinning though. Whatever.

I was proven right in that he has clearly suffered for his choices. She's been coddled and catered to for hers. She'll probably wind up on Celebrity Appprentice.

I'm not saying she didn't have feelings for him. She is an idiot and she did make a bad decision. As I've said, probably a dozen times now, she had emotionally immature feelings that he manipulated.

Or she's just a dumbass- like him. And the majority of people out there who enter into doomed relationships.

He was an authority figure, entrusted to teach her, not start a sexual relationship. He abused his authority and position.

Authority figure. Tell that to all the teachers who are regularly disrespected by students, underpaid by the educational system, scrutinized by local governments and generally thinking that the whole thing is worth chucking for a better paying job as far away from kids as possible.

So maybe she didn't wish to report him, maybe she did fall for him. But when you're 18, there's so much about the world that you don't understand and due to a lack of life experience combined with a surplus of teenage angst and insecurity, you make bad decisions. He exploited that. That's why I think he's a total *****ebag and scumbag. Well, that and the leaving his family thing, but I digress.

So again- tell me in your vast wisdom what the age is when someone can reasonably be expected to have good judgement. And then show me how much more successful relationships are at that point. Considering that most marriages fail and infidelity continues to rise, I'd say you've got a big challenge ahead of you.

"Consensual."

con·sen·tu·al   /kənˈsɛntʃuəl/ Show Spelled[kuhn-sen-choo-uhl] Show IPA
adjective Law .
involving or carried out by mutual consent: a consentual divorce.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
consent + -al1 , with -u- after consensual, or by association with phonetically similar accentual, eventual, etc.

And you completely missed my point, which concerned comparing a 40 year old woman/18 year old man relationship to the 40 year old man/18 year old woman relationship. I said both were sleazy, but believed because of dominance issues the latter was sleazier than the former. I wasn't condoning one, while condemning the other. Just saying one was worse. And you never even acknowledged my edit to that post when I too graciously admitted I misread a sentence in your post and retracted the "misogynist" comment. You're pretty damn petty.

I think you're looking for a fight and not debating me in good faith.

No, I'm simply not agreeing with you. I personally believe that men and women are equal and there is no dominance involved in a loving relationship. Penetration has nothing to do with it. In some cases a man penetrating a woman is as dominant as a hotdog penetrating Takeru Kobayashi's mouth. Sure, many men are physically stronger than women and if Hooker was holding the girl down and forcing her, that'd be one thing. But we know that isn't the case.

 

[Anita18]

Since the girl already dumped him for raping a 14-year-old years ago (and he had admitted to her that he'd seen that girl naked and touched her breasts), she probably isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Most 18-year-olds aren't. The fact that you got married and had kids so young Dragon, and are still with your wife is downright amazing. I'm incredibly mature for my age (people thought I was in my mid-20s when I was only in high school), but I was not ready to have kids, no way. And I hadn't been lucky enough to find someone to click with, even in college.

IMO people who meet their soulmate in college or HS (or earlier!) are more lucky than anything else. You really have to know yourself and be centered, in order to be successful in the bigger dating scene. People are surprised when I tell them I met my fiancé off a free dating site, but it worked out, since I was old enough to know what I didn't want and put a kibosh to things right away if I didn't feel comfortable. You don't learn how to properly say no until you're older.

Dumb students hit on their teachers all the time. It's up to the older authority figure to say no because it's flat out inappropriate. Not that I could say anything though - my dad was my mom's professor in grad school. (I had no idea my parents were so scandalous!!!) They were "only" 8 years apart and he wasn't married with kids, though. That part just adds a whole other level of wrong.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Thank you, Anita. You framed the argument much more diplomatically and eloquently than I could (though I wouldn't compare a grad-student to a highschool student).


Look Dragon, you make me want to do this

I can't talk to you, because there are certain basic, pretty much universally accepted truths you refuse to admit.

You refuse to admit that a teacher is in a position of authority over a student.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this one. It's so ridiculous that it's hardly worth addressing. Yes, teachers are in a position of authority over students. Probably second only to the students' parents. Just because the occasional ineffective teacher gets disrespected by his or her students, doesn't change the basic teacher-student dynamics that play out in most classrooms around the world.

You refuse to admit that your average teenager is less emotionally mature and developed than your average person in their 40's.


I don't care if you got married when you were 18. Your one personal example doesn't change the fact that a highschool student generally lacks the decision making skills, maturity and confidence of a person in their 40's. Of course some teenagers are more savvy or smarter than others, but on average they are still learning how to be independant and make their own decisions and that involves learning from a lot of mistakes on the way. So you can say "nuh uh, nuh uh, nuh uh" until you go blue in the face. Even if you got married when you were 18, would you seriously claim you haven't matured since that age?

 

[terry78]

Though if she was 18 years old and working at an office and he was her boss, it would still come off a little iffy, but because it's a workplace, not as much.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

lol Looks like it didn't last too long. SMH

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I just realized that I'm not going to agree with some people about this issue because I do think that it was very wrong and disgusting for him to date his students, especially with him being married with children, I do think that he had the far more power in the relationship because he was a teacher and a 40 year old man and I am laughing at his arrest. Yes, she is at fault too and I'm not denying that but he was more at fault and he is a disgusting sicko who thought that school was about him ****ing teenagers and not teaching so he deserves all of this backlash and more.

Plus he has absolutely humiliated his daughter because he couldn't wait until the girl graduated from high school. If he really loved that girl he would have encouraged her to not drop out of school anyway and he wouldn't have did anything that he did. His actions show that he obviously only cares about himself and no one else. I hope he is having a fun time in jail.

 

[El Payaso]

I just realized that I'm not going to agree with some people about this issue because I do think that it was very wrong and disgusting for him to date his students, especially with him being married with children, I do think that he had the far more power in the relationship because he was a teacher and a 40 year old man and I am laughing at his arrest. Yes, she is at fault too and I'm not denying that but he was more at fault and he is a disgusting sicko who thought that school was about him ****ing teenagers and not teaching so he deserves all of this backlash and more.

Plus he has absolutely humiliated his daughter because he couldn't wait to until the girl graduated from high school. If he really loved that girl who would have encouraged her to not drop out of school anyway and he wouldn't have did anything that he did. His actions show that he obviously only cares about himself and no one else. I hope he is having a fun time in jail.

I think he humilliated his daughter more when he was found to have been a perv in the past.

 

[Dragon]

Since the girl already dumped him for raping a 14-year-old years ago (and he had admitted to her that he'd seen that girl naked and touched her breasts), she probably isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I believe the girl was 17- it happened 14 years ago. And he didn't actually rape the girl. It was also consentual- it was statutory rape.

Most 18-year-olds aren't.

Neither are most 20 years olds, or 30 year olds or 40 year olds.

The fact that you got married and had kids so young Dragon, and are still with your wife is downright amazing. I'm incredibly mature for my age (people thought I was in my mid-20s when I was only in high school), but I was not ready to have kids, no way. And I hadn't been lucky enough to find someone to click with, even in college.

And yet you were mature enough to know you weren't ready to have kids so as an 18 year old your judgment wasn't so bad. Again, I know of a number of people who had to make tough choices when in their teens. So the assumption and or excuse that teenagers simply can't make the right choice is BS. 18 year olds have alot to learn about life. But they at that point have still learned enough to make reasonably intelligent choices. Or if they make mistakes (as everyone does) they can make up for them.

IMO people who meet their soulmate in college or HS (or earlier!) are more lucky than anything else.

People who meet a soulmate at any time are blessed. Many, many people never do.

You really have to know yourself and be centered, in order to be successful in the bigger dating scene.

That's not true at all. I know of dozens of people personally and many more examples anecdotally who were successful dating, and were complete idiots. I also know of a number of long-term relationships where the folks involved were not particularly centered. There was even abuse in some of those relationships. And yet for one reason or another they stuck it out.

People are surprised when I tell them I met my fiancé off a free dating site, but it worked out, since I was old enough to know what I didn't want and put a kibosh to things right away if I didn't feel comfortable. You don't learn how to properly say no until you're older.

Again, I know of too many examples that prove it has nothing to do with being older. Wisdom doesn't come with age. It comes with work. With study and soul-searching. In terms of life in general, not just relationships, we see everyday people who are in their 40's and beyond that continually do stupid things.

And we've discussed your relationship before, Anita. The point is, that your relationship is still new. And especially the fact that you two are at a distance from each other suggests that you have a ways to go. I certainly wish you the best with it, but when you've made it through 10 or 20 years, you can retrospectively offer relationship advice.

Dumb students hit on their teachers all the time. It's up to the older authority figure to say no because it's flat out inappropriate.

I've already stated that I think a teacher dating his/her student is ethically a bad idea.

Not that I could say anything though - my dad was my mom's professor in grad school. (I had no idea my parents were so scandalous!!!) They were "only" 8 years apart and he wasn't married with kids, though. That part just adds a whole other level of wrong.

So clearly a teacher dating a student didn't destroy your parents' lives. And their situation also isn't unique. And I've also agreed that this guy Hooker was a jerk for betraying his family. My overall point is that things are often not as black-and-white or simplistic as some folks would like to make it out to be. Having a simple yes/no approach to life might make it easier for some folks to process, but it doesn't mean that's the best way.

 

[Dragon]

Thank you, Anita. You framed the argument much more diplomatically and eloquently than I could (though I wouldn't compare a grad-student to a highschool student).


Look Dragon, you make me want to do this

You mean you aren't mature enough not to let a disagreement bother you? How old are you?

I can't talk to you, because there are certain basic, pretty much universally accepted truths you refuse to admit.

Or that you don't understand.

You refuse to admit that a teacher is in a position of authority over a student.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this one. It's so ridiculous that it's hardly worth addressing. Yes, teachers are in a position of authority over students. Probably second only to the students' parents. Just because the occasional ineffective teacher gets disrespected by his or her students, doesn't change the basic teacher-student dynamics that play out in most classrooms around the world.

They're in a position of authority regarding their learning. Not their sexual conduct. And there's also a fluid dynamic. If you're talking about elementary school kids, the teacher, as an adult has greater influence. But as the student matures that influence decreases and the student becomes more independent, the same as in the parental relationship.

You refuse to admit that your average teenager is less emotionally mature and developed than your average person in their 40's.

Well, obviously THIS 18 year old wasn't less emotionally mature than THIS 41 year old. He was emotionally an idiot. And the years hadn't helped him.

I don't care if you got married when you were 18. Your one personal example doesn't change the fact that a highschool student generally lacks the decision making skills, maturity and confidence of a person in their 40's.

My many examples prove that an 18 year old (And younger) is capable of making the right decision. And the girl was in this case. She simply didn't. She wasn't a victim, she was a volunteer.

Of course some teenagers are more savvy or smarter than others, but on average they are still learning how to be independant and make their own decisions and that involves learning from a lot of mistakes on the way. So you can say "nuh uh, nuh uh, nuh uh" until you go blue in the face. Even if you got married when you were 18, would you seriously claim you haven't matured since that age?

I've learned more, because I chose to. But there are many people who go through life blindly never really maturing as they age. Again, like this guy Hooker.

There are teenagers who make bad choices. There are folks in their 40's and beyond who continue to make bad choices.

You can try and simplify life all you want, dude. It still isn't going to fold neatly fall into the box you're hoping it will. It's too complex.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I think he humilliated his daughter more when he was found to have been a perv in the past.

She couldn't really live that humiliation because she didn't know about it at the time.

Obviously my previous post was a rant and kind of my overall opinion on the subject.

 

[Anita18]

I believe the girl was 17- it happened 14 years ago. And he didn't actually rape the girl. It was also consentual- it was statutory rape.

I believe you're right too. Still, statutory rape - he KNEW he would get in trouble (and she most likely did too) so...that is that. Two people making insanely stupid decisions.

Again, I know of too many examples that prove it has nothing to do with being older. Wisdom doesn't come with age. It comes with work. With study and soul-searching. In terms of life in general, not just relationships, we see everyday people who are in their 40's and beyond that continually do stupid things.

And we've discussed your relationship before, Anita. The point is, that your relationship is still new. And especially the fact that you two are at a distance from each other suggests that you have a ways to go. I certainly wish you the best with it, but when you've made it through 10 or 20 years, you can retrospectively offer relationship advice.

Haha, the more I interact with older people (now that I'm almost 30), the more I'm continually confounded by how immature older people CAN be. You are absolutely right - maturity comes with effort. But on the whole, 18-year-olds are much less worldly than 40-year-olds.

Yeah, we've discussed my relationship before. I initially got all when you popped into the thread and insinuated my fiance was going to dump me eventually, because I don't think giving oral sex is the funnest thing in the world. That was incredibly insightful and complexity-considerate of you. Don't play this "I'm giving all sides consideration because I'm so incredibly mature" game.

BTW, the relationship advice thread is for those people who want to GET into a relationship. For people who are already in a relationship who want advice, I have two things to tell them:

1. Stop talking to your family/friends/Facebook sycophants.
2. Start talking to your partner.

The end.

I know people who have been married for years (in one case, 10 years) who hate each other's guts. Length of the marriage/relationship means nothing. So to say that your relationship is more valid than mine, because you just so happened to be married longer means nothing.

The fact that we're long-distance right now (we weren't before) also means nothing. That's also an incredibly complexity-considerate opinion you made right there as well.

So clearly a teacher dating a student didn't destroy your parents' lives. And their situation also isn't unique. And I've also agreed that this guy Hooker was a jerk for betraying his family. My overall point is that things are often not as black-and-white or simplistic as some folks would like to make it out to be. Having a simple yes/no approach to life might make it easier for some folks to process, but it doesn't mean that's the best way.

I dunno, the fact that this is a pattern for Hooker makes things a lot more simple. He's a predator, or at least so weak-willed he can't say no to a barely-legal nubile young thing.

If it really is true love (a la Woody Allen and Soon-Yi, which is also ethically wrong but at least it wasn't a pattern and they're still together), Hooker wouldn't be in jail now for statutory rape of another girl. I bet many men would claim it was "true love" for barely-legal nubile young things if that meant you could get to hit it whenever you wanted..

They're in a position of authority regarding their learning. Not their sexual conduct. And there's also a fluid dynamic. If you're talking about elementary school kids, the teacher, as an adult has greater influence. But as the student matures that influence decreases and the student becomes more independent, the same as in the parental relationship.

Wait...so...it's okay for a stepparent (or God forbid, a biological parent) to schtup their child?

J/K, I know what you're going to say. Just playing devil's advocate. In this case, someone needed to put a stop to it, and considering he had more to lose, Hooker needed to be the one to do it, and he didn't.

 

[Dragon]

I believe you're right too. Still, statutory rape - he KNEW he would get in trouble (and she most likely did too) so...that is that. Two people making insanely stupid decisions.

No question- he's a dumbass who can't control himself. And she was a dumbass who couldn't control herself. But in the heat of the moment, **** happens.

Haha, the more I interact with older people (now that I'm almost 30), the more I'm continually confounded by how immature older people CAN be. You are absolutely right - maturity comes with effort. But on the whole, 18-year-olds are much less worldly than 40-year-olds.

Agreed. So I think it's unlikely that an 18 year old is fit to run for political office. But they can certainly decide whether or not they should have sex with someone- quit school and move in with someone.

Yeah, we've discussed my relationship before. I initially got all when you popped into the thread and insinuated my fiance was going to dump me eventually, because I don't think giving oral sex is the funnest thing in the world. That was incredibly insightful and complexity-considerate of you. Don't play this "I'm giving all sides consideration because I'm so incredibly mature" game.

I didn't insinuate he was going to dump you. You took it that way. I said that things can change, since you made it as if because things are a certain way now, it will remain that way forever. It won't. I'm sure Hooker's wife thought they had a great sexual relationship. It certainly doesn't mean your fiancee will end things. I'm just saying keep an open mind. So yeah, that was insightful and complexity-considerate on my part.

BTW, the relationship advice thread is for those people who want to GET into a relationship. For people who are already in a relationship who want advice, I have two things to tell them:

1. Stop talking to your family/friends/Facebook sycophants.
2. Start talking to your partner.

The end.

I know people who have been married for years (in one case, 10 years) who hate each other's guts. Length of the marriage/relationship means nothing. So to say that your relationship is more valid than mine, because you just so happened to be married longer means nothing.

The fact that we're long-distance right now (we weren't before) also means nothing. That's also an incredibly complexity-considerate opinion you made right there as well.

Again, you're reading things into my statement. I never said that my relationship was more valid than yours. I didn't even compare our relationships. I said that you're early in your relationship and have a long way to go before you can look back and say from experience the key to a lasting relationship. Right now you may have a good idea of it, but it's still all theory. This doesn't make your relationship invalid- it's just a truth. Deal with it.

And exactly- people who have been in long term relationships grow to hate each other- Thus my point. Things change. I'm sure at one point many of them thought that the world revolved around their mate. And maybe some of them never did, but only wanted to be married due to the false value we as a society put on marriage. At any rate, people will ALWAYS make bad choices. I'm sure plenty of them were older than 18- So the idea that there's some magical age when wisdom arrives in a blinding flash is again- bull****.

I dunno, the fact that this is a pattern for Hooker makes things a lot more simple. He's a predator, or at least so weak-willed he can't say no to a barely-legal nubile young thing.

Again- he's an idiot. But to suggest he's a predator means that he had victims. And those girls didn't actually suffer anything other than having had sex. We don't know anything about the 17 year old (Who'd now be 31) she might have been a virgin, or she might have had extensive sexual experience. The same with this girl now. If he somehow convinced her to have sex against her will, then you have a point. But we don't know that.

If it really is true love (a la Woody Allen and Soon-Yi, which is also ethically wrong but at least it wasn't a pattern and they're still together), Hooker wouldn't be in jail now for statutory rape of another girl. I bet many men would claim it was "true love" for barely-legal nubile young things if that meant you could get to hit it whenever you wanted..

First off, how do you know it wasn't a pattern with Woody Allen- In his film "Manhattan" his character is involved sexually with a 17 year old, and several of his other films address the subject. So it's possible that he'd had other relationships with young girls, but since it wasn't the daughter of his famous girlfriend, it didn't get any press.

Second- some men like young girls. Some women like young guys. Some young folks like older folks. As you said- Different strokes. As I've already said- is it worse for an 18 year old girl to have sex with a jerk who happens to be 41 than a jerk who's the same age?

Let's be real- kids start having consentual sex as early as 11. And while I believe this is wrong (Hell, I think sex at all when you don't really love the person isn't a great idea) it happens. Now a grown man scoping girls under 17is predatory IMO. And I also think it's a bad idea for a man who's substantially older to be pursuing girls under 21. But again- life is full of gray areas. The guy might actually be in love, or think he is. And there are many predatory young women out there, looking for a guy to take care of them, or just kicks (Note the "Pregnancy Pact" from years back).

Wait...so...it's okay for a stepparent (or God forbid, a biological parent) to schtup their child?

Where the hell did that come from? You really have one strange imagination, woman..t:

J/K, I know what you're going to say. Just playing devil's advocate. In this case, someone needed to put a stop to it, and considering he had more to lose, Hooker needed to be the one to do it, and he didn't.

You know what I'm going to say? I don't even know what YOU'RE saying!

My comment about a teenager's growing independence from both parent and teacher had nothing to do with sex. It was in response to JJJ Ulcer's assertion that a teacher being an authority figure would lessen a teenager's ability to resist their advances.

 

[Anita18]

I didn't insinuate he was going to dump you. You took it that way. I said that things can change, since you made it as if because things are a certain way now, it will remain that way forever. It won't. I'm sure Hooker's wife thought they had a great sexual relationship. It certainly doesn't mean your fiancee will end things. I'm just saying keep an open mind. So yeah, that was insightful and complexity-considerate on my part.

Again, you're reading things into my statement. I never said that my relationship was more valid than yours. I didn't even compare our relationships. I said that you're early in your relationship and have a long way to go before you can look back and say from experience the key to a lasting relationship. Right now you may have a good idea of it, but it's still all theory. This doesn't make your relationship invalid- it's just a truth. Deal with it.

Then why would you even say "things might change" if that's not what you were implying?

No hard feelings, though, I understand that some people are more capable of describing specifically what they mean (especially with emotional topics) than others.

It just struck me as weird, since it seemed you were giving this guy the benefit of the doubt in this relationship, whereas putting a cynical eye on mine. But now I see that you were just seeing what led up to it, and that you never expected them to last in the first place. Is that accurate?

 

[Dragon]

Then why would you even say "things might change" if that's not what you were implying?

You said that he didn't care about ******io. By saying things change, I meant that at some point he might. Esepcially if he's willing to perform oral sex for you. It doesn't mean he'd necessarily dump you over it, but it might become an issue. Then again it might not. Life is an adventure

No hard feelings, though, I understand that some people are more capable of describing specifically what they mean (especially with emotional topics) than others.

And then some people jump to conclusions

It just struck me as weird, since it seemed you were giving this guy the benefit of the doubt in this relationship, whereas putting a cynical eye on mine. But now I see that you were just seeing what led up to it, and that you never expected them to last in the first place. Is that accurate?

Pretty much. I never meant that I expected your relationship to fail. I was just throwing some things to consider at you based on my experience, in hopes that it wouldn't fail. Feel free to consider them or toss them into the cosmic dumpster. In the end, as I've said, I wish you all the best either way. And no- I sure as hell didn't expect Hooker and Miss Teen USA to last, even if he hadn't been arrested.

 

[Anita18]

And then some people jump to conclusions

LOL, I sure don't have a history of doing so on here, whereas there's clearly some misunderstanding going on in this thread, so...YMMV.

 

[Mistah K88]

They got back together by the way. She's living with him again. I have to say that he is indeed persistent.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-former-student-teacher-back-together-again-010832797.html

 

[Pink Ranger]

They got back together by the way. She's living with him again. I have to say that he is indeed persistant.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-former-student-teacher-back-together-again-010832797.html

As persistent as he likely was when she was 16-17 and he was grooming her to be his the second she turned 18.