The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Batman Returns also got a B cinema score.

There is NO way Keaton plays Batman again now (as much as it pains my poor fanboy heart). The box office results will see to that.

I think I'll go and watch Returns again actually, just to see a director who really knows how to light Batman's cowl.

 

[kguillou]

I've been telling y'all for months that these trailers had minimal GA appeal, and it turns out this movie was totally reflected in those trailers. Going multiverse in a character's first outing is a turnoff. Ezra is a turnoff. The VFX are a turnoff. And Michael Keaton ain't the draw to the GA that people kept insisting he was, either. I mean, even I thought he'd be a bigger draw than this, but still. There's no Keaton solo coming because that honestly wouldn't do much better than this.

Listen I will fully cop to that as someone who had been defending this movie and been super hyped for it for months, you were right. I think this movie, like a lot of DCEU movies was trying to hit the niche geek audiences hard with Keaton and the multiverse angle and get the internet talking—which it did. But youre right, the general audience just did not care about this movie.

And yea, sadly Keaton just doesnt have the same cache as Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield with millennials.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I'll be really curious if audiences accept two concurrent Batman's with Pattinson and the Brave and the Bold actor moving forward.

Fatigue is real when it comes to these movies and they will surely cannibalize each other to some degree. Gunn coming out with ''Here's another 10 projects'' certainly didn't help.

 

[flickchick85]

Listen I will fully cop to that as someone who had been defending this movie and been super hyped for it for months, you were right. I think this movie, like a lot of DCEU movies was trying to hit the niche geek audiences hard with Keaton and the multiverse angle and get the internet talking—which it did. But youre right, the general audience just did not care about this movie.

And yea, sadly Keaton just doesnt have the same cache as Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield with millennials.

That's the thing I don't get why WB doesn't get - the niche geek audience can't make your movie a success. It's not possible. They're "niche" for a reason. When you're making movies for $200mil+, you HAVE to make sure they have that broad, 4-quadrant appeal, or you're DOA. Don't get me wrong, the niche geek audience deserves movies made for them too, but they shouldn't cost you more than, say, $40mil, or you're definitely taking a loss. Let's just hope James Gunn learned that from his time at Disney. I feel like he did, but he also made TSS after working for Disney for a while, so who knows.

Btw, did you see that male/female attendance breakdown on Flash??? Appalling. This movie was outright rejected by women and girls, to a comical degree. No appealing lead, no love interest, 1 main female character who enters the picture more than an hour in and barely gets 10 lines of dialogue? Yeah, it was doomed. My mom loves superhero movies, but every time we saw the trailer for this, her reaction was always the same: "that looks weird." That was how I knew.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'll be really curious if audiences accept two concurrent Batman's with Pattinson and the Brave and the Bold actor moving forward.
.

Especially because now we know that multiple Batmen is a potential turn off for the audience...

There's going to be a lot of head scratching and analysis at WB over The Flash bombing. It's the kind of thing that could see them once again course correcting in lieu of a massive failure.

 

[kguillou]

I’ll be curious to see if Gunn addresses any of this at all or just buries his head in the sand and goes “welp i had nothin to do with this!” LOL

 

[FunkMiller]

I’ll be curious to see if Gunn addresses any of this at all or just buries his head in the sand and goes “welp i had nothin to do with this!” LOL

By coming out so in favour of The Flash on social media, he's tied himself to it. The narrative will be 'how can we trust this guy to shepherd DC forward, if he thought this was such an amazing movie?'

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Gunn did say he ''provided notes'' during post-production on all four DC movies this year. What's more the ''special cameo'' at the end was rumored to be his idea.

Anyone else think WB should just move forward with Pattinson as Batman and forget The Brave and the Bold for now? They have a good thing with Reeves, maybe it's best to leave well enough alone.

 

[FunkMiller]

Anyone else think WB should just move forward with Pattinson as Batman and forget The Brave and the Bold for now? They have a good thing with Reeves, maybe it's best to leave well enough alone.

I absolutely do. The Batman 2 could be a real juggernaut, the same way The Dark Knight was coming off Batman Begins. But if they introduce another Batman before it comes out, it'll take the emphasis off Reeves's version. You're diluting it' potential impact with the audience.

But then I think continuing to pursue the shared universe stuff is bloody stupid across the board, and will bite them on the arse in years to come.

 

[kguillou]

I absolutely do. The Batman 2 could be a real juggernaut, the same way The Dark Knight was coming off Batman Begins. But if they introduce another Batman before it comes out, it'll take the emphasis off Reeves's version. You're diluting it' potential impact with the audience.

But then I think continuing to pursue the shared universe stuff is bloody stupid across the board, and will bite them on the arse in years to come.

Agreed. WB needs to SLOW DOWN. Just focus on solo movie projects, not connected to one another. Gunn is putting the cart before the horse and history is going to repeat itself, I’m afraid.

 

[Still Wynning]

The DCEU is dead. Bury it. Consider it mercy.

 

[Karelia]

I've thought for years DC shouldn't worry about trying to connect their movies into a shared universe. I would be A-ok just having "The Batman" movies and not Brave & The Bold
That said, they could knock it out of the park, or it could end up another disaster, eh, who knows. I'll most likely see it regardless...


Hopefully Superman Legacy really gets EVERYONE excited for the future of DC. If not, I would just start releasing animated films into theaters. They have been mostly successful with DC's animated side for years.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Strange that Affleck wasn't credited but Jeremy Irons was. He definitely had enough material to credit.

 

[kguillou]

I see a lot of people online blaming the reception on the film’s ending and that it completely confused audiences. Obviously we know the ending is not to blame for this mess but i wonder if it is A factor in the way people felt coming out of the movie.

 

[flickchick85]

I see a lot of people online blaming the reception on the film’s ending and that it completely confused audiences. Obviously we know the ending is not to blame for this mess but i wonder if it is A factor in the way people felt coming out of the movie.

I'd say the way the movie forgets about

Spoiler

Batman and Supergirl and essentially leaves them for dead once Barry doesn't need them anymore is certainly an unsatisfying aspect to the ending. Seems like most people cared more about them than Barry.

 

[kguillou]

I'd say the way the movie forgets about

Spoiler

Batman and Supergirl and essentially leaves them for dead once Barry doesn't need them anymore is certainly an unsatisfying aspect to the ending. Seems like most people cared more about them than Barry.

Agreed and yet

Spoiler: Spoiler

Do you think they SHOULD they have kept the originally filmed ending with the two alive in Barry’s world even though it would have been a false promise yo the audience of more appearances?

 

[Kane52630]

I'd say the way the movie forgets about

Spoiler

Batman and Supergirl and essentially leaves them for dead once Barry doesn't need them anymore is certainly an unsatisfying aspect to the ending. Seems like most people cared more about them than Barry.

Spoiler

I mean that's pretty much what Flashpoint does. They all get Days of Future Past style deaths.

 

[Matt.S99]

Agreed and yet

Spoiler: Spoiler

Do you think they SHOULD they have kept the originally filmed ending with the two alive in Barry’s world even though it would have been a false promise yo the audience of more appearances?

Honestly? Yes. Regardless of what happens after, it would have been a better ending for this film. I feel like all comic films are so caught up with references and plot points for the next film(s), instead of just focusing on what’s right in front of them.

Regardless of if they were to continue this story after this or not, the original ending sounds a lot more fitting for this story

 

[flickchick85]

Spoiler

I mean that's pretty much what Flashpoint does. They all get Days of Future Past style deaths.

Spoiler

I'm aware, but unlike Flashpoint, this movie doesn't set that alt timeline up as something too dystopian and horrible. This Bruce ain't Thomas Wayne. And the audience is more invested in him and Supergirl than in Barry. And it erases them and replaces Keaton with a gag. Which makes "the Flashpoint ending" deeply unsatisfying.

 

[flickchick85]

Agreed and yet

Spoiler: Spoiler

Do you think they SHOULD they have kept the originally filmed ending with the two alive in Barry’s world even though it would have been a false promise yo the audience of more appearances?

Yep. Not to set up anything (the audience is hardly new to the concept of sequel setups that never happen) but because that's what serves THIS story best.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

The ending was deeply unsatisfying to me, so yes, I think the original version would have been much better.

But that's what we get when studios are more worried about ''what's coming next'' than actual satisfying storytelling.

 

[kguillou]

I wouldnt be surprised if that ending change was Mr Gunn’s call honestly.

 

[Matt.S99]

I do feel like had they not

Spoiler

"Killed off Keaton"

and kept things intact how it was originally intended, the film would be more well received. That being said, I do think it’s still one of the stronger films in the DCEU. Which I guess isn’t saying much lol.

I am just happy to see Keaton again in some capacity.

 

[DCDAVE]

Especially because now we know that multiple Batmen is a potential turn off for the audience...

There's going to be a lot of head scratching and analysis at WB over The Flash bombing. It's the kind of thing that could see them once again course correcting in lieu of a massive failure.

I agree that you that it appears you can’t have two Batman but Keaton’s Batman role was small and was not the issue with the Flash movie. Ezra was the problem. I still think a 40 year old high tech Batman can work if done properly next to the grounded Pattinson’s Batman.

 

[Matt.S99]

I really liked Ezra in the film tbh. I do think they should have cut some of the jokes though. Some of it felt a little…too much.