The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

[Frodo]

I admit, i was fooled into thinking the movie had a lot more hype than it actually did. When that superbowl trailer landed, i thought it had landed with a big impact and it felt like *most* of the fandom were very much behind the movie and hyped for it. Yes, there were certainly people rooting for it to fail because of Ezra and other other factors, but overall the movie felt like it was generating serious hype. And then there was the cinemacon reception with almost everybody from there wildly praising the film. The movie felt like an "event"--to me at least, but I really had no idea how little people outside our sphere cared about the thing.

I think the Flash has taught us that you really cannot trust these early critic reaction/screenings, these things are like concerts where the studio handpicks geek critics who are pre-disposed to liking these things, they give 'em free stuff, free food, get them to meet the cast, director etc. All of those things probably had a significant effect on their reception of the film. I'm willing to bet a fair amount of those same critics rewatched the movie after the fact and dont feel nearly as high on it as they did, but they'll probably never admit that.

Yeah , that's what I think as well.

I think there are quite a few lessons which come out of a Flash debacle .

But , slot of times, it's easier to see where things went sideways, after the fact , when the storm has passed.

But at the time, there were alot of fans who passionate about the film , one way or another, and I think alot of the geek critics got caught up in the hype, the studio treatment, and the idea of Keaton coming back etc.

So , I think our community was too close to it to really see how those on the outside, the GA, viewed the film, or too close to really gauge their interest level in it.

It's hard to really pat anyone in fandom on the back for predicting how things would turn out, because no one in fandom did .

We're now looking at things in hindsight, and seeing the pitfalls and warning signs now that the dust has settled.

 

[herolee10]

The rules of time travel was really inconsistent in this film. Shouldn't Present Day Barry have vanished once Past Barry was killed by Future Barry?

Also, I really don't get why they used CGI for Ezra's body double in so many solo shots.

 

[Da-Scribe]

The rules of time travel was really inconsistent in this film. Shouldn't Present Day Barry have vanished once Past Barry was killed by Future Barry?

Also, I really don't get why they used CGI for Ezra's body double in so many solo shots.

I don’t think inconsistencies matter since the whole point was that the timeline was spaghetti.

Agreed on the CGI face stuff. It was distracting and unsettling.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah , that's what I think as well.

I think there are quite a few lessons which come out of a Flash debacle .

But , slot of times, it's easier to see where things went sideways, after the fact , when the storm has passed.

But at the time, there were alot of fans who passionate about the film , one way or another, and I think alot of the geek critics got caught up in the hype, the studio treatment, and the idea of Keaton coming back etc.

So , I think our community was too close to it to really see how those on the outside, the GA, viewed the film, or too close to really gauge their interest level in it.

It's hard to really pat anyone in fandom on the back for predicting how things would turn out, because no one in fandom did .

We're now looking at things in hindsight, and seeing the pitfalls and warning signs now that the dust has settled.

I predicted months ago it wouldn't reach 400 mil, and even there I gave it too much credit. It didn't feel to me like anyone outside our sphere cared to me, and the ad campaign felt desperate. Like they knew interest was low so were resorting to whatever desperate plot made headlines. Such as Tom Cruise and such.

 

[flickchick85]

I don’t think inconsistencies matter since the whole point was that the timeline was spaghetti.

Agreed on the CGI face stuff. It was distracting and unsettling.

There was a shot where Shannon's Zod was just standing there with his eyes closed, and it was very clearly not Shannon at all but his full CGI double. Why oh why was that necessary?!?!?*

*I mean, I can surmise why - poor planning. They didn't get the shots they needed with him when they had him. Which is why CGI-as-a-crutch is the REAL problem plaguing all these productions from a VFX standpoint, because that's why the VFX houses are getting so overworked. They're being used as shortcuts to skip vital planning phases of pre-production.

 

[super85]

The rules of time travel was really inconsistent in this film. Shouldn't Present Day Barry have vanished once Past Barry was killed by Future Barry?

Also, I really don't get why they used CGI for Ezra's body double in so many solo shots.

They could have done something fun with their own dumb time travel rules. You could have inserted cameos in actual action scenes, its studently a different Batman fighting with Barry against Zod or something.

Its even wierder when you hear the director and producers say that the multiverse and multiple DC guest stars/cameos was such a "important" part for them wanting to make the movie. Then it looked like it did.

 

[samsnee]

Hitting Max next week

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

---

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Real shame. I hope it sells very well on home media.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Real shame. I hope it sells very well on home media.

Unless it's gonna get me more Keaton, I don't care

WB, this year, has been getting their just desserts for having so badly mismanaged the DC brand for so long. The Flash is a bit of a casualty, sure (it's much better than half the other DCEU flicks), but it still wasn't good enough to have been a billion dollar hit. It's the kind of movie that, had the well not been previously poisoned, might have turned a modest profit. If the DCEU been competent from the beginning (ie: the person running the damn thing had actually liked the characters) and if The Flash had been made for a reasonable budget, then it'd be a much different story. Granted, pandemic issues caused the budget to balloon, no doubt, but I think the budget was probably too high to begin with.

Post-pandemic theater shyness and inflation-related consumer choosiness are a real thing that the movie biz is seeing the effects of. There's no denying that--but there are movies that are making good money, and frankly, after so many stinkers, why should audiences have any faith in a movie based on DC Comics? Hell, The Batman couldn't even crack a billion dollars. A rising tide can lift all ships, but the opposite is also true.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Sadly, Gunn/Safran/WB will never knock on Keaton's door again. Any hope of a continuation ended on June 16.

Based on previous comments, Gunn isn't even a fan of Burton's Batman anyway.

 

[Frodo]

Keaton's time to return as Batman, longer term, was in the 90s, I'm afraid.
.
Unfortunately, he's just been away from the role too long , and he came back to the part at a time when the Studio, wasn't as stable as it was in the late 80s and early 90s.

His timing was off , in that respect .

While it was nice to see him suit up again, his chance to play the role from an extended period, ended when he walked away from the role, 30 years ago.

I can see why he wanted to walked away back then, but , the show went on without him .

There were several other actors who made the part their own since 92' , and a couple of generations of film goers, who weren't old enough to remember the impact of Batman 89.

That's not the only reason Flash didn't catch fire, of course, but certainly , Keaton's Batman not resonating with alot of the younger audience, didn't help.

 

[chintai80]

i finally caught this on Max.

i went in knowing about the cgi issues, so i was able to look past those...but what can i say?
i enjoyed this movie a lot.

to me, the story, the acting, the emotional moments, and the decent action scenes made up for the odd vfx choices here.

some of the cgi felt like the studio knew this was the end of the dceu, so they cut the budget and had the vfx team stopped working on it while they were still in the middle of rendering things. just release it as is.

if anything, the movie made me wish keaton did more batman movies back then, and maybe one more film as old batman (curse you zaslav for cancelling batgirl!).

but with the way the movie ended, it just felt really inconsequential.
and everything that happened in these dceu movies, in the end, didn't matter.

7 out of 10 for me.

if they fixed the cgi, and changed the lame ending - it would've been an 8/10.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

i finally caught this on Max.

i went in knowing about the cgi issues, so i was able to look past those...but what can i say?
i enjoyed this movie a lot.

to me, the story, the acting, the emotional moments, and the decent action scenes made up for the odd vfx choices here.

some of the cgi felt like the studio knew this was the end of the dceu, so they cut the budget and had the vfx team stopped working on it while they were still in the middle of rendering things. just release it as is.

if anything, the movie made me wish keaton did more batman movies back then, and maybe one more film as old batman (curse you zaslav for cancelling batgirl!).

but with the way the movie ended, it just felt really inconsequential.
and everything that happened in these dceu movies, in the end, didn't matter.

7 out of 10 for me.

if they fixed the cgi, and changed the lame ending - it would've been an 8/10.

Definitely. I gave it a 7.5.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

That's not the only reason Flash didn't catch fire, of course, but certainly , Keaton's Batman not resonating with alot of the younger audience, didn't help.

That's perfectly understandable but the weird thing about all this is that the older generation always seem to turn out to support Keaton. Yet they didn't turn up to the theatre for this film.

- Keaton and his Bat-movies still get a lot of retroactive love online.
- His Batman was what drove hype and discussion in the lead up to The Flash's release date. Polls highlighted him and Calle as the main reason to see the film.
- The Batman '89 comic was a great success and a sequel is on the way.
- Keaton Batman merchandise always sells well, with the recent Keaton Flash toys doing big business.

There's no denying the interest for Keaton was high, but he was in the wrong movie. A movie surrounded by too many cooks, unfortunate controversies and a negative drive online. Miller sunk this movie for everyone involved and not even Christian Bale himself could have gotten more butts in seats. People made up their minds about The Flash and stuck to it... even older Keaton fans.

WB should recognise the value Keaton's Batman still has. With the right project, the right idea, he could have a glorious swan song. But for them, he'll now be attached to the failure of The Flash and that's that. Plus, coupled with the relative failure of Indy 5, they won't be hopping on the nostalgia train any time soon.

It was an absolute shock that he ever agreed to come back and he deserved so much better.

 

[Frodo]

That's perfectly understandable but the weird thing about all this is that the older generation always seem to turn out to support Keaton. Yet they didn't turn up to the theatre for this film.

- Keaton and his Bat-movies still get a lot of retroactive love online.
- His Batman was what drove hype and discussion in the lead up to The Flash's release date. Polls highlighted him and Calle as the main reason to see the film.
- The Batman '89 comic was a great success and a sequel is on the way.
- Keaton Batman merchandise always sells well, with the recent Keaton Flash toys doing big business.

There's no denying the interest for Keaton was high, but he was in the wrong movie. A movie surrounded by too many cooks, unfortunate controversies and a negative drive online. Miller sunk this movie for everyone involved and not even Christian Bale himself could have gotten more butts in seats. People made up their minds about The Flash and stuck to it... even older Keaton fans.

WB should recognise the value Keaton's Batman still has. With the right project, the right idea, he could have a glorious swan song. But for them, he'll now be attached to the failure of The Flash and that's that. Plus, coupled with the relative failure of Indy 5, they won't be hopping on the nostalgia train any time soon.

It was an absolute shock that he ever agreed to come back and he deserved so much better.

That's one of the reasons I said the timing was bad .
He came back at a bad time given the factors you've noted .

I didn't turn up at the theatre for it myself, and I'm a Gen-xer who saw 89 and BR in the theaters.
Keaton is my Batman.

The lead of the film certainly dissuaded me, from turning out to the theater , though I appreciate it didn't for others.

Even debates about the art vs the artist in fandom, with regards to Ezra, weren't exactly helpful to the film, even if it doesn't account for the huge failure of the film at the box office.

Ultimately, the film was "born under a bad sign" as the old song goes, and unfortunately, Keaton got involved during a turbulent time at WB, with a troubled lead actor, and a project in development forever.

 

[C. Lee]

I wish they had used this for the DVD cover -

 

[squeekness]

Nice poster.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I suspect that this film been finished but they never bothered putting in the finishing touches on it in case they needed to add or subtract some stuff later. Basically It was used as a kinda soft reboot get out of jail card initially probably. Instead of you know being a good solo film first and foremost.

 

[Filmfreak]

I suspect that this film been finished but they never bothered putting in the finishing touches on it in case they needed to add or subtract some stuff later. Basically It was used as a kinda soft reboot get out of jail card initially probably. Instead of you know being a good solo film first and foremost.

Are you talking about the movie or Ezra now?

 

[chintai80]

Are you talking about the movie or Ezra now?

 

[kguillou]

The more I watch this movie the more I like it. You ever have a movie that you struggled with but the more you watch it the more you accept it for what it is? This is that kind of movie for me. Ezra and the comedy are still tough pills to swallow sometimes but I really do think when the movie isnt being jokey it really shines, like the entire third act. Ezra can be good when they're being serious or dramatic. I feel like if Muschetti had just turned down the dial on the comedy several notches and directed Ezra (both Ezra's) to be a little more sincere throughout the movie it really would have helped the overall film.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Goddamn this was so disappointing, I have no urge to rewatch. All my issues I had with the film before it released were validated when it released. They should’ve used a real Flash villain. Should have just started with the Rogues.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

After watching this weeks ago, here are my thoughts:

The animated Flashpoint Paradox movie was way better.

Michael Keaton's Batman just doesn't work in broad daylight. You need the Burton atmosphere and night time setting (his best action scene was in the underground base where they found Supergirl, likely because it was the darkest lit location he wore the Batsuit in the whole movie). That opening scene with Affleck's Batman I also kind of felt the same way. In general, Batman looks better at night and it fits the character.

As funny as the Clooney cameo was at the end, I would have rather seen one final scene with Barry and Affleck's Bruce to tie up that relationship and the arc that was set up with their scene earlier in the movie (which was a great scene). Clooney's cameo just feels like a loose end that will never be tied up. And that post-credit scene with Aquaman was pointless.

Supergirl did not live up to the hype. Some people are like "man I hope they keep Sasha, I hope she gets to be the DCU Supergirl" but she didn't really make that big of an impact on me. She was fine for this movie but that is not the Supergirl I really want to see in the DCU. I am fine with her being one and done.

The CGI was just terrible.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

The Flash is the #1 selling DVD in the UK for the second week

Official DVD Chart | Official Charts

and the #3 selling Blu-ray (last week it was #2)

Official Blu-Ray Chart | Official Charts