The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

[Filmfreak]

I find this is a big problem we have with comic films. Everyone is always worried about what every detail is leading to and what happens next, and it seems like so many people can’t appreciate the film that’s right in front of them.
I’ve seen so many people saying that this film doesn’t matter now because they’re rebooting the DC films.

So? Why can’t you just enjoy this film for what it is? I get that it’s exciting to speculate and to see characters cross over, but even if this is a “one of done” film, so be it. You can still thoroughly enjoy it without having to worry about what’s coming next.

That was one of the biggest, glaringly greedy things I found with the Snyder bros. For years people were clamouring for the Snyder Cut. That is something that RARELY happens, and we were lucky enough to get it. Instead of just being grateful and happy we got the Snyder Cut, it’s been nothing but “MORE MORE MOAAARR!!!”

Be glad we even got the Snyder cut!!

I think a big part of that is the huge quantity of films we're getting and the way they're marketed. Before one movie is even out, they not only announce 10 more, but they give titles, casting and descriptions as well

The MCU is the most guilty of that and the ones who started it, along with all the mentality of phases that are all building up to something that has yet to come. It makes the audience feel like each movie is just another entry and the moment it's done it's like a countdown to the next one. They don't feel special.

While I completely agree with you, I think studios are mostly the ones to blame for this.

 

[Matt.S99]

I think a big part of that is the huge quantity of films we're getting and the way they're marketed. Before one movie is even out, they not only announce 10 more, but they give titles, casting and descriptions as well

The MCU is the most guilty of that and the ones who started it, along with all the mentality of phases that are all building up to something that has yet to come. It makes the audience feel like each movie is just another entry and the moment it's done it's like a countdown to the next one. They don't feel special.

While I completely agree with you, I think studios are mostly the ones to blame for this.

Oh it’s *absolutely* the fault of the MCU formula. It’s made people…for lack of a better term…really greedy.

I love this shared universe stuff as much as the next person, but I also long for the simple times of not having 47 comic films a year and just letting things breathe on their own.

Only have to go back a decade or so to the Nolan films where things felt a lot more simple.
I actually miss that in retrospect. We didn’t even know if we were getting a sequel when we watched Begins. Or when we watched TDK. We all assumed it would happen, but they didn’t go ham and announce a slew of sequels right off the bat.

I think the lot of us are just going to enjoy the film for what it is and THEN get excited about what’s to come from it (if anything)

 

[kguillou]

I'm very curious though how Aquaman 2 figures into all of this. I mean...it is coming after The Flash, so technically that would indicate Mamoa exists in the post Flashpoint world.

 

[routhman]

I think there's a bit of a superhero movie fatigue settling in.

I hope not. Otherwise, the DC universe is going to be cancelled for a second time in the same span of time it took Marvel to build out a six-phase universe. FFS, please just let us have a decent JL film.

 

[J.Drangal]

I think a big part of that is the huge quantity of films we're getting and the way they're marketed. Before one movie is even out, they not only announce 10 more, but they give titles, casting and descriptions as well

The MCU is the most guilty of that and the ones who started it, along with all the mentality of phases that are all building up to something that has yet to come. It makes the audience feel like each movie is just another entry and the moment it's done it's like a countdown to the next one. They don't feel special.

While I completely agree with you, I think studios are mostly the ones to blame for this.

Oh it’s *absolutely* the fault of the MCU formula. It’s made people…for lack of a better term…really greedy.

I love this shared universe stuff as much as the next person, but I also long for the simple times of not having 47 comic films a year and just letting things breathe on their own.

Only have to go back a decade or so to the Nolan films where things felt a lot more simple.
I actually miss that in retrospect. We didn’t even know if we were getting a sequel when we watched Begins. Or when we watched TDK. We all assumed it would happen, but they didn’t go ham and announce a slew of sequels right off the bat.

I think the lot of us are just going to enjoy the film for what it is and THEN get excited about what’s to come from it (if anything)

I posted this earlier in another thread but I feel like it's relevant to the discussion, so here it is, reworked a bit :

Some people are talking about our cinematic era as the "metatext" era.
All that matters to the audience in these comic book films, and adaptation in general, are the things that are outside of them.

Marvel is sure typical of this trend: it seems that no one is really interested in the actual story anymore and what generates discussion is picking up on references, speculating on who's going to make a surprise appearance, played by whom, etc... In the end, the audience is never really invested in the film and kept in a permanent teasing.
With time and this phenomenon becoming frankly established, I feel like many films have become hollow at heart, faking entertainment by tapping you on the shoulder every 30 seconds, making sure you get whatever meta-reference is thrown at you.

To digress a bit, at the DCU level, I think this is the biggest pitfall to avoid. With a fatigue of the genre that is coming (at least noticed around me), if this whole project wants to succeed, then it is absolutely necessary to hook people through the story that is told than by tricks and buzz effects whose illusion, I believe, will not last much longer.

 

[FunkMiller]

I posted this earlier in another thread but I feel like it's relevant to the discussion, so here it is, reworked a bit :

Some people are talking about our cinematic era as the "metatext" era.
All that matters to the audience in these comic book films, and adaptation in general, are the things that are outside of them.

Marvel is sure typical of this trend: it seems that no one is really interested in the actual story anymore and what generates discussion is picking up on references, speculating on who's going to make a surprise appearance, played by whom, etc... In the end, the audience is never really invested in the film and kept in a permanent teasing.
With time and this phenomenon becoming frankly established, I feel like many films have become hollow at heart, faking entertainment by tapping you on the shoulder every 30 seconds, making sure you get whatever meta-reference is thrown at you.

To digress a bit, at the DCU level, I think this is the biggest pitfall to avoid. With a fatigue of the genre that is coming (at least noticed around me), if this whole project wants to succeed, then it is absolutely necessary to hook people through the story that is told than by tricks and buzz effects whose illusion, I believe, will not last much longer.

How depressingly astute.

You've neatly summed up my biggest issue with the current crop of movies. Nobody cares about the story or characters. They care about nostalgia, how good the CGI is, and what next product this product is hinting at.

The Flash is doing this exact same thing - with the added bonus of flinging nostalgia bait at us so we forget that the leading man is a grotesque p.o.s.

And there's only more of it on the horizon, with Zaslav's new attempt to copy the MCU, via the medium of James Gunn.

 

[J.Drangal]

How depressingly astute.

You've neatly summed up my biggest issue with the current crop of movies. Nobody cares about the story or characters. They care about nostalgia, how good the CGI is, and what next product this product is hinting at.

The Flash is doing this exact same thing - with the added bonus of flinging nostalgia bait at us so we forget that the leading man is a grotesque p.o.s.

And there's only more of it on the horizon, with Zaslav's new attempt to copy the MCU, via the medium of James Gunn.

Yep... That's why I've always had a semi-negative feeling about that whole multiverse thing.
For fans, it's an exciting concept allowing for variations on characters they know well or exploration of new concepts.
But for studios that have either become bulimic monsters or that are in crisis, it's the perfect excuse to recycle on a chain basis, without anyone asking too many questions...

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I think some here have rose colored glasses on when they talk about the past era of superhero movies. "They were more special then." No they weren't. For every Nolan Batman trilogy or Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy, we had dog **** like the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, Ghost Rider, Elektra, Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc. I much prefer the era we are in now.

 

[Spoonman]

After watching the trailer, I get the hunch that Sasha Calle will be a stand out here, she seems to have a presence, and if this movie is as good as internal testings say, it most likely turn Muschietti into a star director, kinda like it happened to Gunn after GOTG and Taika after Ragnarok.

 

[The Batman]

I think some here have rose colored glasses on when they talk about the past era of superhero movies. "They were more special then." No they weren't. For every Nolan Batman trilogy or Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy, we had dog **** like the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, Ghost Rider, Elektra, Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc. I much prefer the era we are in now.

Maybe they weren't more special than the 2012-2019 period, but they were definitely more special than this post Endgame period we're currently in.

 

[DyeLorean]

The era of "you need to see that and that and that to understand this" will collapse under its own weight at some point. Just like everything I think it's a cycle. The stand alone superhero movies will come back.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I don't think we are ever going back to true "stand alone" superhero movies except with DC Elseworlds projects.

 

[Matt.S99]

I think some here have rose colored glasses on when they talk about the past era of superhero movies. "They were more special then." No they weren't. For every Nolan Batman trilogy or Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy, we had dog **** like the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, Ghost Rider, Elektra, Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc. I much prefer the era we are in now.

Yes, overall, the quality is much better and more consistent. Truly bad comic films are pretty few and far between now.


A healthy mix of shared universe and standalone films is the way to go IMO

 

[AntonGobbs89]

I think some here have rose colored glasses on when they talk about the past era of superhero movies. "They were more special then." No they weren't. For every Nolan Batman trilogy or Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy, we had dog **** like the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, Ghost Rider, Elektra, Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc. I much prefer the era we are in now.

I hear you on that. Even though I have a lot of nostalgia for the early 2000’s, I’ll fully admit that there was a good chunk of garbage comic book movies during that time. X-Men Origins: Wolverine alone is probably worse than any comic book movie I saw in the last decade.

However, during that period you’d occasionally get a Sin City, Spider-Man 2, The Dark Knight, X2, etc… For me those are real movies. You don’t have to be into Batman or Spider-Man in order to enjoy those films, they were just great pieces of filmmaking. For me it made the Elektra’s, Fantastic Four’s, Daredevil etc… all worth it to get to the golden egg.

For me the majority of comic book films in the past 10 years have been ok to good and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. But I am starting to ask myself where are the great superhero films? Where’s the one you can sit and watch without zero context for what came before and still come out loving it? Those kinds of comic book films are still scarce imo. The last ones that I enjoyed on that level were Days of Future Past, Logan, and maybe Into the Spiderverse.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[AntonGobbs89]

Can you upload a gif of the Batwing flying through the explosion? It happens right before Kara uses her heat vision.

 

[Elayis]

I think some here have rose colored glasses on when they talk about the past era of superhero movies. "They were more special then." No they weren't. For every Nolan Batman trilogy or Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy, we had dog **** like the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, Ghost Rider, Elektra, Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc. I much prefer the era we are in now.

I don't know, I think I preferred the era of peaks and valleys over the plateau we've been in for awhile. I'd take those 3 or 4/10's if it meant we get 9/10's that set new standards for the genre, instead of the consistently average 6's & 7's of the MCU.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

I don't know, I think I preferred the era of peaks and valleys over the plateau we've been in for awhile. I'd take those 3 or 4/10's if it meant we get 9/10's that set new standards for the genre, instead of the consistently average 6's & 7's of the MCU.

Absolutely

 

[emielaen]

I'm very curious though how Aquaman 2 figures into all of this. I mean...it is coming after The Flash, so technically that would indicate Mamoa exists in the post Flashpoint world.

Its probably just set before the film.

 

[REDophile]

I’ve made this point a gazillion times and should have shut up a while ago. But no one takes it seriously enough.
I have no problem with the content we’re getting in this movie. Its based on Flashpoint. I get it. So Flashpoint should be the title.
The problem is how it’s being marketed as The Flash’s solo film. Its not. This is not the Flash film in development for over 20 years. Ppl are gonna associate Supergirl and Batman as supporting characters to the Flash. More ppl will associate Michael Keaton coming back as Batman than the The Flash. A movie with General Zod as the villain but no Captain Cold, Gorilla Grodd, Mirror Master, Captain Boomerang or Eobard Thawne is unworthy of being titled The Flash.
Muschietti and Hodson probably only ever looked at Flashpoint when they signed on to do this and didn’t care about anything way back to Gardner Fox.

 

[Vlyse]

I'm very curious though how Aquaman 2 figures into all of this. I mean...it is coming after The Flash, so technically that would indicate Mamoa exists in the post Flashpoint world.

I'm more curious about Blue Beetle, where it fits being the first DC movie after Flashpoint, and how they will make that movie seem important enough to go see. You already hear complaints that Shazam 2 isn't important, even though the first one was better received than most DCEU films.

 

[TheFuture]

After watching the trailer, I get the hunch that Sasha Calle will be a stand out here, she seems to have a presence, and if this movie is as good as internal testings say, it most likely turn Muschietti into a star director, kinda like it happened to Gunn after GOTG and Taika after Ragnarok.

Muschietti already is a star director and what gave me confidence in this film. He's far beyond waiting for his GOTG or Ragnorak "moment".

The trailer had a lot of promise for me anyway.

Great to see Zod back and curious to know what his motivations are, assuming his reasons for chasing Clark are not transferred to Kara.

Keaton gives me such warm vibes, I'm a little worried about seeing him in daylight but I'm sure I'll get over it. Batfleck looks much more comfortable in the sun in comparison.

Calle seems to have some oomph as mentioned above.

And finally there's Ezra....I think it's safe to say they're putting their heart into this film.I still actually want to see his Flash.

 

[The Caped Knight]

We are living in a unique time with two different incarnation of The Flash in media that showcase the ring from the comics.

 

[Breogan]

I honestly had no idea Superman and Lois Lane had a daughter?

And that apparently she's originally from the Silver Age alt reality story "Superlass" was the daughter of Superman and Lois Lane ...

 

[emc5466]

Action figures coming soon from McFarlane Toys.