The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - - Part 84

[Spider-Fan]

Gwen's death ITSELF isn't bad in the movie. But, several factors harm it. In the comic, Gwen's death was a tragic accident during a scene we have seen a million times of the hero saving his love interest from the bad guy, but turned on its head. Also, it was done by Spider-Man's archenemy, whom comic fans respected. It showed the cost of people knowing who he was. Also, the resolution is phenominal. After she dies, Spider-Man is out for blood, resulting in the accidental death of his enemy, and a great scene between he and MJ. One that I feel helped them bond more as characters.

In the movie, the villains are shallow and hindered by too many plot threads. So, we never fully respect them and they don't maximize their potential. Also, once Gwen actually dies, we don't get a scene nearly as good as the one Peter and MJ have in the comic. He just stands at her grave, sulks, and then listens to her speech as a dumb Rhino villain blows crap up before being Spider-Man again. This resolution is flat and I feel harms the actual impact of her death. It feels more like, well...she is dead but we need to move on. In the comic, this HURT. Both in the story itself and the aftermath. It haunted Peter in a way I don't feel the movie satisfactorily does justice. This once again shocks me, given the death of Gwen Stacy is one of the all-time best comic book stories. How do you make it fall so flat? But they found a way. Shame because Gwen was the best part of both of the TASM movies. By far.

Look at TDK. Rachel, a far worse character dies. But, THAT impact is felt in the movie very well. All the plot threads stemming from it felt it, and so does the audience. Here, the movie just sort of ends afterward. The resolution was just off.

 

[Spider-knight]

What's so bad about Rachel?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Not making this a Batman thread, LOL! But, basically, she was a boring character. Particularly in BB. She was better in TDK, but still not one of my favorite love interests. However, she was well used within that story in a way I don't feel Gwen was, despite Gwen being a more interesting character. That is my point. Once again, NOT MAKING THIS A BATMAN DISCUSSION THREAD! Simply making a point about Gwen's death.

 

[Spider-knight]

Hey, sometimes we go a little bit off topic. It's alright if you mention something other than spiderman.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Again, Webb and the writers are still to blame for some of the weird stuff in these movies.

I don't like when people use Sony and the producers as scapegoats.

me either.. Sony usually just has input on who to include, and what major events should happen (and whats cut) its the writers and directors that add in the "how and why"

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Gwen's death ITSELF isn't bad in the movie. But, several factors harm it. In the comic, Gwen's death was a tragic accident during a scene we have seen a million times of the hero saving his love interest from the bad guy, but turned on its head. Also, it was done by Spider-Man's archenemy, whom comic fans respected. It showed the cost of people knowing who he was. Also, the resolution is phenominal. After she dies, Spider-Man is out for blood, resulting in the accidental death of his enemy, and a great scene between he and MJ. One that I feel helped them bond more as characters.

In the movie, the villains are shallow and hindered by too many plot threads. So, we never fully respect them and they don't maximize their potential. Also, once Gwen actually dies, we don't get a scene nearly as good as the one Peter and MJ have in the comic. He just stands at her grave, sulks, and then listens to her speech as a dumb Rhino villain blows crap up before being Spider-Man again. This resolution is flat and I feel harms the actual impact of her death. It feels more like, well...she is dead but we need to move on. In the comic, this HURT. Both in the story itself and the aftermath. It haunted Peter in a way I don't feel the movie satisfactorily does justice. This once again shocks me, given the death of Gwen Stacy is one of the all-time best comic book stories. How do you make it fall so flat? But they found a way. Shame because Gwen was the best part of both of the TASM movies. By far.

Look at TDK. Rachel, a far worse character dies. But, THAT impact is felt in the movie very well. All the plot threads stemming from it felt it, and so does the audience. Here, the movie just sort of ends afterward. The resolution was just off.

I'll agree to this, especially the first paragraph. The over all story arch in the comic is way way better. But I do like HOW she died better in this film... the independent gwen trying to be a hero herself. But yeah i do agree with the rest. The whole MJ/Peter moment i'm really going to miss.. i just wish the film ended on a sad note, not the rhino mess.. it would have been nice to see MJ or Black Cat get him back on his feet again

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What's so bad about Rachel?

the biggest thing that hurt rachel's death was the actor change. I found Katie Holmes ultimately a better rachel actually.. for the fact she was a little mousey woman with a strong "take no crap will" she seemed more fiesty than she could actually pull off.. Maggie was fiesty but looked like she could handle her own physically.. between that aspect and the fact it's a different face you sort of lost an emotional investment in the character imo...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Not making this a Batman thread, LOL! But, basically, she was a boring character. Particularly in BB. She was better in TDK, but still not one of my favorite love interests. However, she was well used within that story in a way I don't feel Gwen was, despite Gwen being a more interesting character. That is my point. Once again, NOT MAKING THIS A BATMAN DISCUSSION THREAD! Simply making a point about Gwen's death.

i agree with that as well.. but I think Emma and Andrew had far far far more chemistry. And Gwen was portrayed so excellently that her loss is still felt pretty heavily.. and you can see the emotion from andrew that just makes it even more heartbreaking

 

[Spider-knight]

Plus andrew is a great Peter Parker and spiderman minus the responsibility, consequence, and care of aunt may and uncle ben in the second film

 

[W/ Great Power]

True true about the school thing. While maybe after asm3 or asm4 they will do a soft reboot like james bond stlyle or something. I mean maybe have a no director and actors but continue the story form asm3 or 4. So maybe have them has friends in asm3 and then asm4 have them together and then asm5 soft reboot or something I don't know.

I just can't see that happening. Any bond between the audience and the characters is always due to the performances of the characters. I just can't see how the continuation of the story, except with a new cast and directors, would maintain the fluidity that a normal series does from one movie to the next.

Agrees. I really hate we cant have the scene where mj changes face and stays to console peter after gwens death

Same here. That's actually why I'm very interested to see how they utilize Peter and MJ's friendship/relationship, especially since Gwen is gone. Again, that'll be something we've never seen on screen before.

i just wish the film ended on a sad note, not the rhino mess.. it would have been nice to see MJ or Black Cat get him back on his feet again

I mentioned the same thing on the previous page.

 

[The Joker]

I will say I like both of your posts, but I still interpret it as Gwen's fault for one reason. Throughout the whole movie, she continually tells Peter it is her decision to be with him, implying that the consequences of their relationship are just as much on her as they are on him. When she participates in the final battle through her own choice, she's basically saying she's culpable for her own fate, that she will have to own up to the consequences, too.

Peter even keeps telling her to stay away during the final battle. He does his best to keep her out of it, and she still comes anyway. She barged into a fight that would likely get her killed, and she knew it.

In the comics, Gwen had no idea that Peter was Spider-Man, so she was entirely unaware of the consequences of their relationship, so she could not be held accountable for what ultimately happened to her.

Of course, having that sort of adaptation would be impossible to do, but I think they could have incorporated some better elements, like Gwen being forced into the battle.

Exactly. That's the truth of it.

Gwen's death in this movie was the total opposite of the comics. From the reason why she dies, to the Goblin who killed her.

Gwen's death ITSELF isn't bad in the movie. But, several factors harm it. In the comic, Gwen's death was a tragic accident during a scene we have seen a million times of the hero saving his love interest from the bad guy, but turned on its head. Also, it was done by Spider-Man's archenemy, whom comic fans respected. It showed the cost of people knowing who he was. Also, the resolution is phenominal. After she dies, Spider-Man is out for blood, resulting in the accidental death of his enemy, and a great scene between he and MJ. One that I feel helped them bond more as characters.

In the movie, the villains are shallow and hindered by too many plot threads. So, we never fully respect them and they don't maximize their potential. Also, once Gwen actually dies, we don't get a scene nearly as good as the one Peter and MJ have in the comic. He just stands at her grave, sulks, and then listens to her speech as a dumb Rhino villain blows crap up before being Spider-Man again. This resolution is flat and I feel harms the actual impact of her death. It feels more like, well...she is dead but we need to move on. In the comic, this HURT. Both in the story itself and the aftermath. It haunted Peter in a way I don't feel the movie satisfactorily does justice. This once again shocks me, given the death of Gwen Stacy is one of the all-time best comic book stories. How do you make it fall so flat? But they found a way. Shame because Gwen was the best part of both of the TASM movies. By far.

Look at TDK. Rachel, a far worse character dies. But, THAT impact is felt in the movie very well. All the plot threads stemming from it felt it, and so does the audience. Here, the movie just sort of ends afterward. The resolution was just off.

Bravo

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Now her death and the aftermath was done wrong? Seriously?

Now the world can vanish that I wouldn't care.

 

[Spider-knight]

Do you guys think the sinister six will be lucky enough not to get messed around with? Because I don't think it will since Sony seems to be more focused on that now and if they ever did mess around with it they would be in worse shape then ever

 

[spideyboy_1111]

It wasnt done wrong at all. Could it of been better? Sure. But even then as many have stated about predictability it would have just been more so... im ok with how they did it. And do feel like the books were respected in its tone overall completely.. they honored it

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Do you guys think the sinister six will be lucky enough not to get messed around with? Because I don't think it will since Sony seems to be more focused on that now and if they ever did mess around with it they would be in worse shape then ever

Who knows.. im still curious how the film will work without spidey in it (hopefully he's included)

 

[Doc Ock]

I think my biggest problem about Gwen's death is that it was done by a villain who was JUST introduced ( and then wasn't who it should of been).

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

They honored the comics?

So did Gwen die on the Bridge? Did Norman kill her?

What they did to Gwen's death is like do a film adaption on The Dark Knight Returns and instead of Batman fighting Superman, you see Batman fight Wonder Woman.

 

[Spider-knight]

You know I don't believe I ever seen a company who desperately wants to keep the biggest thing they have to keep them standing and ruining the brand when they almost could've saved themselves by winning the people over if that brand was intact. It's like if you have this cool model of a cybernetic soldier and have some working parts but the you suddenly rearranged it and it turns out to be a mess and just malfunctions.

Seriously, with all the good adaptations that happened like DOFP, winter soldier, GOTG, Arrow and upcoming projects like BvS, Constantine, secret service, age of ultron, age of apocolypse, daredevil, heroes for hire, Thor 3, cap 3, justice league, doctor strange, the flash, and the flash, spiderman seems to be the only one whose screwed and its seemingly impossible and scarey because usely it x-men and DC but now it's spiderman and that really dies scare me because I really want Marc Webb, andrew garfield and crew to do well and spiderman to do well and with TASM 2 I'm just sad. And I really don't want to hear another lip from Levi if he just comes in and makes it more dire.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

It's not Spidey's fault. It's Sony's fault, Marc Webb's fault, and the Producers fault.

Let's just sit back, watch one of 2 things happen:

Sony goes bankrupt

or Disney buys Sony.

And then Spidey is back.

 

[Spider-knight]

It wasnt done wrong at all. Could it of been better? Sure. But even then as many have stated about predictability it would have just been more so... im ok with how they did it. And do feel like the books were respected in its tone overall completely.. they honored it

And if the film was left alone we would've got a better execution of the death.

I know you guys don't like me acting like a broken record but if Sony does decide to give us teekay and yurka's version I'd be down with that

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think my biggest problem about Gwen's death is that it was done by a villain who was JUST introduced ( and then wasn't who it should of been).

Agrees. It should have been a pain in his side prior

 

[SpideyK]

me either.. Sony usually just has input on who to include, and what major events should happen (and whats cut) its the writers and directors that add in the "how and why"

Exactly.

I am a fan of Webb and his work, but he sure did make some questionable choices regarding ASM2.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

They honored the comics?

So did Gwen die on the Bridge? Did Norman kill her?

What they did to Gwen's death is like do a film adaption on The Dark Knight Returns and instead of Batman fighting Superman, you see Batman fight Wonder Woman.

.... honoring something doesnt mean "carbon copy"

They honored the spirit and emotion quite well

 

[SymbioteSeb]

I already get the feeling a lot of people hate TASM2 in this site.
What was so bad about it?
I honestly found Gwen's death heartbreaking. I knew it was coming, but I thought it was handeled great. Plus, Gwen and Peter's chemistry is very well done, and I felt connected to them

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And if the film was left alone we would've got a better execution of the death.

I know you guys don't like me acting like a broken record but if Sony does decide to give us teekay and yurka's version I'd be down with that

Whoody whatta? Did gremlins attack the film or something?