The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

[stillanerd]

With regards to Amazing Spider-Man #665, I thought it was a very good issue, and I particularly thought

Spoiler

the tie-in to Amazing Fantasy #15 in that Aunt May felt as if Peter abandoned her on the night Uncle Ben was killed was a nice touch. It's not any shocking revelation by any means, but that's actually in its favor. Because this is soemthing which makes perfect sense, gives us a different point-of-view without doesn't changing the story in Amazing Fantasy #15 at all, and is something that, sure enough, stared us right in the face.

However, there were two very big drawbacks I had with this issue overall:

Spoiler

The more I think about it, the more I have a problem with how the main story ended. Peter is essentially faced with a genuine moral dilemma: either stop the mugger from escaping justice for what he did to Betty, or let him go and rush to the hospital to be by Betty's side to provide emotional support. In the end, he chooses to go be with Betty, thus reinforcing the "moral" that it's more responsible to be with the people we love when they need us than anything else.

Except in this case, Peter winds up doing virtually the same thing he did in Amazing Fantasy #15--he lets the criminal go. But conveniently, that criminal doesn't leave town despite being told that he needed to, nor does he commit any other crime that would possibly put innocent people in danger. Thus Spidey captures him the next night without having to feel guilty that someone else may have gotten hurt. Likewise, Betty, despite having serious head trauma and other injuries, makes a full recovery, just in time for Peter to keep their movie "date."

Don't get me wrong, it makes for a nice happy ending, but it just seemed like there were no real repercussions to Peter's actions here and that everything was wrapped up far too neat.

And my second problem is the back-up in that Aunt May, along with Jay Jameson, moving to Boston, which means, after Marvel made a big deal about how important Aunt May supposedly is, she's virtually being written out of the supporting cast.

Granted, I'm not upset to see Aunt May apparently leave the books again (if that's what is actually happening), but at the same time, it's a situation which seems like it could have been avoided. Because now that she no longer knows Peter is Spider-Man, along with Marvel deciding to quickly marry her off to J. Jonah Jameson's dad (which I think has proven to be more of problem in hindsight since it wound up giving Peter less obligations and responsibilities to juggle) and considering how her volunteer work at Martin Li' homeless shelter has obviously gone kaput, it seemed as if Marvel realized they've boxed into a corner and couldn't figure out what to do with her yet again.

Even so, a good done in one.

For additional thoughts, while Marvel and Slott may be teasing SPIDER-ISLAND by claiming that "in a city where everyone has spider-powers, nobody is Spider-Man" is a tad absurd. That's like saying if everyone in WHERE'S WALDO is in the same outfit, nobody is Waldo.

Well, perhaps the idea is that, since all these various New Yorkers will have spider-powers, that also means Peter can display the fact that he has powers without being Spider-Man or even revealing he's Spider-Man. There's been a few preview images which seem to confirm this, as they show Peter web-slinging and what not in his civies and in the open. They may even go as far as having Peter think, "With everybody having powers, I don't have to hide my abilities anymore and still be 'plain old Peter Parker.' Maybe there's no need for me to even be Spider-Man anymore." Which would also mean that Peter may think there's no incentive to have everybody get rid of their spider-powers, thinking who is he to decide that.

Until that is something does happen in which he has to find a way to get rid of them. My guess? The spider-powers being to mutate so that, not only are people growing extra arms, eyes, and fangs, they're turning into mindless "man-spiders." (After all, we've seen images of a Six-Armed Shocker and "Man-Spiders" in some of the preview art) And even worse, the powers become contagious and people start getting them without being bitten by the Jackal's genetically modified bedbugs, which would give a reason as to why J. Jonah Jameson will have to quarantine New York.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Loved issue 665! Very fun, overall.

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm wondering if Peter publically displaying "spider-powers" will have an affect on the psychic-blindspot...

 

[imdaly]

really any hint of they're past or idea of anything other than just being in the same group is mocked or constantly dismissed as stupid, and mj's comments in this issue again show how low she is on the list of peters life in the writers opinions

I don't see a bit of that in this issue at all. I see MJ covering for Peter (since she knows he's Spider-Man). I see MJ helping Aunt May move. I see Peter giving MJ the Tour of Memories at May's house. And I see MJ and Peter having a conversation about his worries about Aunt May being in danger because he's Spider-Man.

Where is this hint of "their past being mocked or constantly dismissed as stupid" or any sign of the writers showing "how low she is on the list of Peter's life"?

 

[imdaly]

I'm wondering if Peter publically displaying "spider-powers" will have an affect on the psychic-blindspot...

Ooooooh. That's a good point!

I'm sure it won't, though, or else EVERYONE will know again after this story.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Peter with a public identity is so much more interesting than the restoration of his secret identity.

 

[WolfCypher]

I'm wondering if Peter publically displaying "spider-powers" will have an affect on the psychic-blindspot...

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiighly doubt it. Pre-Big Time has proven to us that even the most resorceful minds (Osborn for instance) can never piece together the connections between Peter and Spider-Man, no matter how painfully obvious they are. Not just Osborn, but there's also Vin Gonzolez and Kraven Girl who never put together that Peter was Spidey when Kraven, Jr. tracked Spider-Man to Peter and Vin's apartment and found his costume. Then there's Carlie, who I'm sure has had moments of finding it out only to go with a completely different conclusion...so I'm pretty sure no one will think anything of Peter being just another of the half-million citizens walking up walls during the infestation.

 

[Dread]

With regards to Amazing Spider-Man #665, I thought it was a very good issue, and I particularly thought

Spoiler

the tie-in to Amazing Fantasy #15 in that Aunt May felt as if Peter abandoned her on the night Uncle Ben was killed was a nice touch. It's not any shocking revelation by any means, but that's actually in its favor. Because this is soemthing which makes perfect sense, gives us a different point-of-view without doesn't changing the story in Amazing Fantasy #15 at all, and is something that, sure enough, stared us right in the face.

However, there were two very big drawbacks I had with this issue overall:

Spoiler

The more I think about it, the more I have a problem with how the main story ended. Peter is essentially faced with a genuine moral dilemma: either stop the mugger from escaping justice for what he did to Betty, or let him go and rush to the hospital to be by Betty's side to provide emotional support. In the end, he chooses to go be with Betty, thus reinforcing the "moral" that it's more responsible to be with the people we love when they need us than anything else.

Except in this case, Peter winds up doing virtually doing the same thing he did in Amazing Fantasy #15--he lets the criminal go. But conveniently, that criminal doesn't leave town despite being told that he need to, nor doe he commit any other crime which would put further innocent people in danger. Thus Spidey captures him the next night without having to feel guilty that someone else may have gotten hurt. Likewise, Betty, despite having serious head trauma and other injuries, makes a full recovery, just in time for Peter to keep their movie "date."

Don't get me wrong, it makes for a nice happy ending, but it just seemed like there were no real repercussions to Peter's actions here and that everything was wrapped up far too neat.

And my second problem is the back-up in that Aunt May, along with Jay Jameson, moving to Boston, which means, after Marvel made a big deal about how important Aunt May supposedly is, she's virtually being written out of the supporting cast.

Granted, I'm not upset to see Aunt May apparently leave the books again (if that's what is actually happening), but at the same time, it's a situation which seems like it could have been avoided. Because now that she no longer knows Peter is Spider-Man, along with Marvel deciding to quickly marry her off to J. Jonah Jameson's dad (which I think has proven to be more of problem in hindsight since it wound up giving Peter less obligations and responsibilities to juggle) and considering how her volunteer work at Martin Li' homeless shelter has obviously gone kaput, it seemed as if Marvel realized they've boxed into a corner and couldn't figure out what to do with her yet again.

Even so, a good done in one.

Well, perhaps the idea is that, since all these various New Yorkers will have spider-powers, that also means Peter can display the fact that he has powers without being Spider-Man or even revealing he's Spider-Man. There's been a few preview images which seem to confirm this, as they show Peter web-slinging and what not in his civies and in the open. They may even go as far as having Peter think, "With everybody having powers, I don't have to hide my abilities anymore and still be 'plain old Peter Parker.' Maybe there's no need for me to even be Spider-Man anymore." Which would also mean that Peter may think there's no incentive to have everybody get rid of their spider-powers, thinking who is he to decide that.

Until that is something does happen in which he has to find a way to get rid of them. My guess? The spider-powers being to mutate so that, not only are people growing extra arms, eyes, and fangs, they're turning into mindless "man-spiders." (After all, we've seen images of a Six-Armed Shocker and "Man-Spiders" in some of the preview art) And even worse, the powers become contagious and people start getting them without being bitten by the Jackal's genetically modified bedbugs, which would give a reason as to why J. Jonah Jameson will have to quarantine New York.

Loved issue 665! Very fun, overall.

I liked issue #665 too. I didn't think of your criticism, which is sound. I was just glad Betty didn't die, and as it was a done-in-one, it was unlikely to leave a lingering subplot.

Spoiler

My quibble was the issue seemed to be trying to make the point that Peter needs to grow up a little and realize that when something tragic happens to a loved one, he shouldn't abandon them to be Spider-Man and deal with it that way. However...it is only as Spider-Man that he was able to track Betty's attacker. All May really convinced Peter to do is postpone apprehending the crook another night. If Peter had not gotten obsessed for a little while, he may not have come close. After all, he's used to dealing with big threats and super-villains now, not so much "normal" criminals.

It actually might make a notable subplot somewhere that due to the fact that superheroes tend to focus only on flashy disasters or named super-villains, that "normal" low level crime has actually increased in some districts. I mean, only Daredevil and Punisher really seem to spend most of their time handling regular crime, and DD's been on a sabbatical lately. Usually the only time most heroes deal with regular crime is if a villain employs henchmen, or they happen to be tailing a member of their supporting cast - i.e. Spidey and Black Cat shadowing Norah as she gets in deep with some biker gang members. The dilemma being that it is naturally difficult to craft drama around "normal" crime. That might make a fun issue for one of those books that has young heroes - they try to stop a gang of bank robbers who aren't spandex clad villains or run by some big time mobster, but are just clever and efficient at what they do.

It's always the nobodies that cause the most heartache. Just ask Batman. Or Spider-Man, of course. If the Joker kills somebody, he can have half the Justice League after him depending on who and where. What about gang members?

As for your guess on "Spider-Island", it is probable that the powers will have side effects and naturally lead to Spidey having to figure out how to remove them. Given that attempts to remove his own powers in the past have backfired, that's hardly an easy feat. If there was no ill side effects beyond some villains getting stronger and chaos from the masses, there'd be no reason to undo it. Plus, it's Jackal. He's a total madman. Nothing he does is beneficial.

I still think, and probably hope, that Spider-Girl keeps her powers. Maybe being formerly Totem empowered will make her immune to some of the downsides. Magic's weird like that.

I'm wondering if Peter publically displaying "spider-powers" will have an affect on the psychic-blindspot...

That would be interesting. However, if the spider-power thing gets that widespread, it could merely be assumed that Peter is another victim like Carlie, MJ, and JJ will be. It would be hilarious if SOMEONE reacted to JJ's dilemma by assuming he was Spider-Man all along, and his vendetta was cover. Sure, he and Spidey have been seen together before, but...so have Matt Murdock and Daredevil, or Stark and Iron Man. There's always an explanation.

Still, unless Peter literally unmasks in front of someone and reveals it verbally, I think the psychic-blindspot would hold. The blindspot prevents anyone from deducing that Peter is Spidey and all but forces them to come up with another explanation. Now if only it existed in the 80's, poor Debra Whitman wouldn't have had a nervous breakdown when she figured it out.

I do think the blindspot eliminates a lot of drama, but it also explains why it hasn't been exposed so far in a post Bendis world.

Peter with a public identity is so much more interesting than the restoration of his secret identity.

I wouldn't go this far. Peter without a secret identity gets written into a corner very quickly. Once you cover how all of his cast reacts, you are left with literally nothing left to do. That was likely why Joe Q had him remasked barely a year later. It made a splash, sold some comics, but after that, nothing. Not unless Marvel is willing to have Peter Parker devote his life 100% to being Spider-Man and abandon all traces of a normal civilian life, much as most of his Avengers team mates do. I don't think Marvel will ever do that, because it makes Spider-Man more generic. What splits him from many other heroes is that he has that over side, and that other cast. Many other heroes either never had that, or abandoned it years ago. Stark's been out and proud about being Iron Man for, what, about 6 years now?

Although it is a fair question of how many heroes at Marvel really do have functional secret identities anymore. Matt Murdock is still highly suspected of being Daredevil even if it may not be a confirmed fact anymore. I suppose some young heroes like the new Thunderstrike, Gravity, the Young Avengers and others do, but we never see it so it may as well not exist. Spider-Man may be the last of the dinosaurs in that regard.

It could be played up that in a post-OMD world, Peter Parker's dual life means he cannot commit fully to being a superhero and thus there will ALWAYS be crimes he is too late to prevent or solve because he has a life, and in his civilian life, he can never raise a family, marry, or even go steady because Spider-Man hangs over him. The end of that limbo could be seen as moving on. But, again, then what? Peter Parker becomes a Reed Richards type, solving crimes with super-science half as often as with a spider-punch? Does he simply become a middle class Iron Man, head of his own company? Or merely become one of those other heroes who have no identity, but aren't as memorable to the public like Ms. Marvel? As with the supporting cast, sure, you could get fun stories out of people reacting, like JJ and Flash. But then what?

The dynamic of Spider-Man was that he was always an "everyman". With him being an Avenger, that was stretched to the limit of credibility, which is probably why Marvel okay'd Slott's pitch to have Peter work for Horizon Labs - likely because they had him work for Stark Industries for over a year without incident. Having Peter use his brains to get a decent job instead of living on freelance snaps is a step in the right direction, without going too far. I don't think I would want to see a public Spidey. It would make him more typical. Being the last of the dinosaurs these days, ironically, helps keep him distinct.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

im sorry.. but Peter Parker has not been the "every man" for quite a long time.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Peter was unmasked to set the stage for One More Day, they didn't restore his secret identity because you can only do so much with a public identity. He was unmasked simply so that they can undo the Spider-Man/Mary Jane marriage.

From what I recall, Mark Millar wanted Spider-Man on the anti-reg side from the beginning, but Marvel editorial told him to put him initially on the pro-reg side.

 

[Dread]

im sorry.. but Peter Parker has not been the "every man" for quite a long time.

The public still perceives him that way and I believe most of editorial does. That mindset likely is why it has taken so long to have Spider-Man evolve in certain ways and why when he does he doesn't go too far. Slott at least has managed to handle a new status quo while still having some "ol' Parker Luck" moments.

You could argue he was never an "everyman", given how brilliant Peter was from a young age. It is possible he could have used gadgets to be a superhero and avenge his uncle's death even without super powers. But there were stretches of time when that brilliance was ignored unless the story needed Peter to make a gadget or a serum to solve the threat of the month. But the angle was that he had certain problems that most typical people faced. It is harder to do that as a public hero.

Peter was unmasked to set the stage for One More Day, they didn't restore his secret identity because you can only do so much with a public identity. He was unmasked simply so that they can undo the Spider-Man/Mary Jane marriage.

From what I recall, Mark Millar wanted Spider-Man on the anti-reg side from the beginning, but Marvel editorial told him to put him initially on the pro-reg side.

Marvel editorial is pretty daffy, especially when Joe Q was at the helm full time.

There were no other ways to get Aunt May shot and have Peter bargain with Mephisto to save her than being unmasked? Marvel chose about the worst way around a marriage ever. Even now, there seems to be little of how Peter and MJ, and others interact that suggests to me that the two divorcing wouldn't have worked. Only middle aged men think it makes people seem "older".

Still, I do think Spider-Man loses some charm as a public hero. You need that secret identity for the concept to work. Otherwise he is a typical DC hero, who either has no secret identity, or has one but because they have so small of a supporting cast, it doesn't matter.

Of course, given how many Marvel superheroes get out and thrive without a secret identity - some of whom having no super powers or less power than Spidey himself - it could be argued that Peter not following suit could have less to do with the safety of his loved ones and more to do with his own unwillingness to commit to it more and move on.

I would not be an advocate for Spidey unmasking, though. I genuinely believe you lose something vital about him in the exchange.

 

[moraldeficiency]

With regards to Amazing Spider-Man #665, I thought it was a very good issue, and I particularly thought

Spoiler

the tie-in to Amazing Fantasy #15 in that Aunt May felt as if Peter abandoned her on the night Uncle Ben was killed was a nice touch. It's not any shocking revelation by any means, but that's actually in its favor. Because this is soemthing which makes perfect sense, gives us a different point-of-view without doesn't changing the story in Amazing Fantasy #15 at all, and is something that, sure enough, stared us right in the face.

However, there were two very big drawbacks I had with this issue overall:

Spoiler

The more I think about it, the more I have a problem with how the main story ended. Peter is essentially faced with a genuine moral dilemma: either stop the mugger from escaping justice for what he did to Betty, or let him go and rush to the hospital to be by Betty's side to provide emotional support. In the end, he chooses to go be with Betty, thus reinforcing the "moral" that it's more responsible to be with the people we love when they need us than anything else.

Except in this case, Peter winds up doing virtually doing the same thing he did in Amazing Fantasy #15--he lets the criminal go. But conveniently, that criminal doesn't leave town despite being told that he need to, nor doe he commit any other crime which would put further innocent people in danger. Thus Spidey captures him the next night without having to feel guilty that someone else may have gotten hurt. Likewise, Betty, despite having serious head trauma and other injuries, makes a full recovery, just in time for Peter to keep their movie "date."

Don't get me wrong, it makes for a nice happy ending, but it just seemed like there were no real repercussions to Peter's actions here and that everything was wrapped up far too neat.

Spoiler

You know, I didn't think of that at all but you're exactly right. Peter let the mugger go. Very odd. Thinking of your point made me think of Spider-Man Reign, with Peter beside MJ at the hospital as she was dying of cancer. He hears the sirens and saves someone which makes him not there when she dies. Then has that freaky flashback thing where he talks to her and she explains her last words were go gettem tiger or something like that. Rather touching.

The mugger hurting or killing someone else would have made for a much more interesting story long term, but it was a good done in one. Not nearly as good as like the one with flash losing his legs, which also now has real repercussions, but still a nice story. I liked the movie night thing, I didn't care that it's not been mentioned before. Though I wonder how that worked when peter was married, I mean in a steady long term live in relationship, with MJ.

 

[runawayboulder]

Another thing that people aren't mentioning are the really cool upgrades Slott is giving Spider-Man's tech. This issue her introduced GPS Spider-Tracers with built in mics and LCD camouflage. He's been throwing some other stuff out there that Pete's been creating at his new job that's really flying under the radar.

More creative than the Spider-stingers or shedding his skin....

 

[moraldeficiency]

But still not using impact webbing or those tranq dart things, which were pretty good ideas.

Although slott did for some reason keep that one other power that lets peter cling things to himself other than with his hands or feet. Which is odd.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Otherwise he is a typical DC hero, who either has no secret identity, or has one but because they have so small of a supporting cast, it doesn't matter.

Ummm.....yeah, here's the thing, almost EVERY major DC character has a secret identity. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman (the Diana Prince identity has not yet been compromised), the Flash, and Green Lantern all have secret identities.

And even those that do have public identities such as Wonder Woman when she doesn't use the Diana Prince identity and Aquaman use them to their full potential. And they both have large supporting casts.

The DC heroes that do have public identities are essentially heroes that are part of an ensemble cast like the Atom (Justice League supporting cast), Elongated Man (Flash supporting cast), and Steel (Superman supporting cast).

It's a big difference than how Marvel has essentially threw away the secret identity. Everyone knows who Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, the Hulk, the Fantastic Four, and Daredevil are. Restoring Spider-Man's secret identity kinda goes against that. Especially since it was done in an incredibly idiotic manner (if Spider-Man can have his secret identity restored, why hasn't Daredevil?)

 

[imdaly]

Thing I always seem to notice, though, is a superhero with a secret identity seems to usually be able to enjoy a large supporting cast that has nothing to do with the superhero world (other than that they live in one and may need saved sometimes), whereas a superhero with a public identity tends to have a much more limited supporting cast where nearly all of them are also in the superhero biz themselves.

 

[Dread]

Ummm.....yeah, here's the thing, almost EVERY major DC character has a secret identity. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman (the Diana Prince identity has not yet been compromised), the Flash, and Green Lantern all have secret identities.

And even those that do have public identities such as Wonder Woman when she doesn't use the Diana Prince identity and Aquaman use them to their full potential. And they both have large supporting casts.

The DC heroes that do have public identities are essentially heroes that are part of an ensemble cast like the Atom (Justice League supporting cast), Elongated Man (Flash supporting cast), and Steel (Superman supporting cast).

It's a big difference than how Marvel has essentially threw away the secret identity. Everyone knows who Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, the Hulk, the Fantastic Four, and Daredevil are. Restoring Spider-Man's secret identity kinda goes against that. Especially since it was done in an incredibly idiotic manner (if Spider-Man can have his secret identity restored, why hasn't Daredevil?)

Wonder Woman's supporting cast have shifted so much, it is difficult to determine whether having an alter ego really is vital for her. The fact that a good deal of her cast either know she's Wonder Woman or are fellow Amazons also defeats that purpose. If Hal Jordan had a life outside of being GL, that's news to me; I know Kyle used to juggle that identity stuff, but his tenure is done. The line between Bruce Wayne and Batman has blurred with BATMAN, INC. - and most of Bruce's supporting cast know who he is anyway, such as Alfred, his partners, and even Lucius Fox. That leaves Flash and Superman - and at least until "The New 52", Lois was married to Clark so that was a major supporting cast member who knew.

The Fantastic Four were always celebrity heroes since the 60's - that was done specifically to counter the tradition of the secret identity. Thor having an alter ego is something that has waxed and waned for a lot of his history (especially when you consider Donald Blake wasn't even a real person, just someone Odin basically convinced Thor he was). While Captain America's identity was secret, he was like many DC heroes in that most of his supporting cast knew anyway, so it was meaningless for a chunk of his time. I think Marvel has reversed course on secret identities for two reasons. The first is that some find them outdated and unlikely to last long in the era of cell phone videos and whatnot, and the second is that a lot of their characters had supporting casts who knew, so it was pointless. Half of the people Tony Stark interacted with on a monthly basis, by about the late 90's into the 2000's, already knew. So why hide anymore?

As for Daredevil, I think Bendis, Brubaker and other writers managed to make the title so gritty that nobody wants to do a complete 180 with Murdock. Still, the status of his identity shifts. During the height of Bendis' run, it was an obvious fact that Murdock was DD. However, later writers merely kept it in the "highly suspected" area instead of an outright fact. Again, look at his supporting cast and villains - mostly characters who know he is Daredevil anyway. So, what is the point?

Peter Parker, on the other hand, has a supporting cast who don't know he is Spider-Man. Even at the tail end of the JMS era, only May and MJ knew - and one of them lost that knowledge with OMD. He gets to interact with a slew of characters on a consistent basis who don't know, and if they did know, they likely would feel betrayed and ditch him, or whatever. The UNMASKED era got to tell the stories about some of that cast reacting to that knowledge, such as J.J. and Flash, but then there was nothing left to do with them. Congrats, you have that bit where J.J. screams at Peter for all the lies and sues him. Now what?

The reason why Marvel will likely stick to that identity thing with Spider-Man is more than just tradition (even if tradition is a large chunk of it). The premise of the character seems to hinge on the soap opera subplots that only seem viable if his identity is secret - especially now that Peter isn't married anymore. You can't do "omigod, what happens if Peter misses _____ because he is Spider-Man" stories if everyone knows who he is. You could argue whether such tropes really have any surprise after some 45 years, but Marvel is devoted to keeping them. Spider-Man is a character who has always had that foot in the "real world" by having an alter ego with a thriving supporting cast and social life, and I do think he loses something if you take that away. He would essentially become a Power Ranger, and I don't think he's as unique that way. There'd also be no reason to wear a mask, so that'd require a change in design that I doubt nobody wants. There's zero purpose for a public hero to wear a mask, unless it is armored. I can't think of one who does besides Captain America.

Joe Q felt too many people knew who Spidey was, hence the remasked bit where even characters such as Norman Osborn or Eddie Brock who used to know forgot. You could argue that merely allows them to rehash old ground rather than innovate, but that's mainstream comics for you. Admittedly, it took me a long time to get used to the idea of May knowing when JMS had that happen.

Now...I am not opposed to Peter revealing his identity to people he cares about, eventually. I suppose some might groan that OMD meant that Peter was still hiding being Spider-Man from May because he's afraid she'd not handle the shock, or reject him - which are both absurd to modern readers and make her seem weak. I do think it is silly that Peter is making his relationship with Carlie harder than it has to be by not revealing it, especially since she is a fan of Spider-Man, is a cop and can defend herself, and is perfectly fine with a commanding officer being Wraith. The longer he waits, the more someone will feel betrayed for being lied to for so long, and it becomes a vicious cycle. But I don't think Spider-Man gains anything when his ENTIRE supporting cast know, and the entire world knows. There are fans somewhere who might enjoy him being Tony Stark Lite, head of his own company and flying around in a Spider-Jet, but I'm not one of them. What I like about BIG TIME is that it allows Peter to have a scientist gig that allows him to earn a living on his brain and make Spider-Gadgets, without having to be Mr. Fantastic about it. After all, we already have Mr. Fantastic in that role; there's nothing to gain by having a junior version.

You could argue the philosophical argument that so long as Peter Parker is kept in a limbo between his civilian life and his superhero one, he may not ever reach his full potential in either one and he is stuck in spin cycle. However, the only subplot I see stuck in spin cycle is his love life, and so long as the other subplots are more entertaining, I can deal with it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Wonder Woman's supporting cast have shifted so much, it is difficult to determine whether having an alter ego really is vital for her. The fact that a good deal of her cast either know she's Wonder Woman or are fellow Amazons also defeats that purpose.

It really all comes down to how they do it. George Perez did the public identity fantastically and Heinberg set up the Diana Prince identity pretty damn well (though others completely ****ed it up).

If Hal Jordan had a life outside of being GL, that's news to me;

Hal does have a civilian life. He's luck that he has a commander who supports what he does to cover for him or else he'd probably be in jail right now for constantly being AWOL.

I know Kyle used to juggle that identity stuff, but his tenure is done.

Kyle's tenure is not done. Unlike Wally West, Kyle has actually flourished quite well in the post-Rebirth status quo. He hasn't been shoved to the sidelines. He's treated as the main star of the books he has starred in. And he has managed to fit into the Corps quite well despite being the only Lantern for a long time.

The line between Bruce Wayne and Batman has blurred with BATMAN, INC. - and most of Bruce's supporting cast know who he is anyway, such as Alfred, his partners, and even Lucius Fox.

Lucius Fox does not know that Bruce Wayne is Batman. And the line really hasn't blurred when most people no longer think that Bruce Wayne is not Batman, but instead Batman's boss.

Lois was married to Clark so that was a major supporting cast member who knew.

Pa Kent, Ma Kent, Lex Luthor, Jimmy Olsen in Countdown, Supergirl, Superboy, Perry White is sometimes suspected to know, etc.
I'll get to the rest later, I'm going to bed

 

[moraldeficiency]

To be fair at the end of the JMS era, civil war notwithstanding, the avengers and jarvis knew as well and he lived in avengers tower, so they were pretty much supporting cast.

 

[runawayboulder]

They were also replacing a supporting cast that was highly superior in many eyes.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

They were also replacing a supporting cast that was highly superior in many eyes.

untrue. JMS wrote out his supporting cast a long while ago.. he dug peter, mj , and auntmay into a hole of together. he litterally wrote out all the cast, mj and may had no friends... it was quite ridiculous. Then during the civil war fall out.. peter had a job at a school... flash was the gym coach, debra whitman came back for a story arch, and all this supporting cast slowly started to climb back in. On top of that... Mj was becoming friends with Sue Storm and other marvel heroines.. and yeah... he turned out to be a skrull... but may and jarvis were really cute together

 

[runawayboulder]

Yeah, I liked some of the interaction between Spidey and Cap, Spidey and Tony and Spidey and Wolverine but it was so top heavy at that Betty, JJJ, Robbie and others were phased out by that point. Interaction with Pete and his teammates is good but there has to be balance at some point.

I wasn't to happy that some of the supporting cast from the Mackie era was totally absent as well. Robbie's son and Jill Stacy were few of the only good things out of that mess. I wish Jill comes back at some point.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

again, i wasn't really talking about the avengers team mates with spidey... i was talking about how many of the old supporting cast was begining to trinkle back in during his teaching days in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man

 

[runawayboulder]

But you only named 2 people....

 

[Themanofbat]

And Deb only came back thanks to Peter David, not JMS, and it was for what? 2, 3 issues?

And PAD had also decided to make Flash a "puny parker" man again... regressing him to the 60's...