The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

[runawayboulder]

The bottom line is no matter how much he's supposedly beloved by fans, it will never change the fact that he is the face of one of the most controversial stories in the history of the franchise.

This is why Marvel trying to pass him off as the real Spider-Man back in the day was big mistake. Now all these years later, the fans that got into Spidey comics at the time are all for bringing him back, in favor of Peter, who's 2 years removed from being tarnished just as bad/if not worse than in the 90's during that arc.

I have nothing against Ben Reilly myself, I loved what Dan Jurgens briefly did with him, but he really needs to stay in the rear view mirror. Marvel, Dan and whoever else came up with this constant tease needs to stop before it brings more harm than good.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The bottom line is no matter how much he's supposedly beloved by fans, it will never change the fact that he is the face of one of the most controversial stories in the history of the franchise.

This is why Marvel trying to pass him off as the real Spider-Man back in the day was big mistake. Now all these years later, the fans that got into Spidey comics at the time are all for bringing him back, in favor of Peter, who's 2 years removed from being tarnished just as bad/if not worse than in the 90's during that arc.

I have nothing against Ben Reilly myself, I loved what Dan Jurgens briefly did with him, but he really needs to stay in the rear view mirror. Marvel, Dan and whoever else came up with this constant tease needs to stop before it brings more harm than good.

F*** that. Bring him back, and let Ben Reilly do his own thing.

 

[runawayboulder]

A Ben Reilly solo would be cancelled by 12 issues.

 

[Godzilla2014]

A Ben Reilly solo would be cancelled by 12 issues.

Why? I think it could succeed if Marvel didn't make the same mistakes they did before with the character.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

A Ben Reilly solo would be cancelled by 12 issues.

ill have to save this message for when it happens some day...


ive always said, Ben would work great in a "spider-family" book, and think he'd actually be a really good match for Felicia Hardy. I'd actually love a book with Black Cat, Spider-Girl, Ben Reilly, and Madame Web in it... (there's many other characters you could throw in too actually)

 

[Godzilla2014]

ill have to save this message for when it happens some day...


ive always said, Ben would work great in a "spider-family" book, and think he'd actually be a really good match for Felicia Hardy. I'd actually love a book with Black Cat, Spider-Girl, Ben Reilly, and Madame Web in it... (there's many other characters you could throw in too actually)

I agree!

 

[runawayboulder]

That's exactly why a Ben book would fail miserably. If he comes back, he needs to get as far away from NY as possible, not pal around with the same folks Pete does. That's gonna make Clone Saga haters (basically 90% of Spider-Man fans) avoid it like the plague. They once tried putting Reilly on the New Warriors at a time, when it was one of Marvels fresh/new franchises and it killed the book.

And there is not Spider-Family of books, because the line can't carry them. Venom is the first one in forever that has done well. A Ben Reilly book's first issue would just barely crack the top 30 then spend the next 8 months free-falling down the charts. It's the nature of the beast in this day and age. The main reason Venom works is because people knew from ASM that Flash was now Venom. It's a new idea mixed with an old plot concept. Ben is just retreading on bad old memories.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

That's exactly why a Ben book would fail miserably. If he comes back, he needs to get as far away from NY as possible, not pal around with the same folks Pete does. That's gonna make Clone Saga haters (basically 90% of Spider-Man fans) avoid it like the plague. They once tried putting Reilly on the New Warriors at a time, when it was one of Marvels fresh/new franchises and it killed the book.

And there is not Spider-Family of books, because the line can't carry them. Venom is the first one in forever that has done well. A Ben Reilly book's first issue would just barely crack the top 30 then spend the next 8 months free-falling down the charts. It's the nature of the beast in this day and age. The main reason Venom works is because people knew from ASM that Flash was now Venom. It's a new idea mixed with an old plot concept. Ben is just retreading on bad old memories.

marvels never tried carrying a book that featured them as a team though.

from what i gather Ben seems to actually have a pretty big fanbase. More people seem to be outspoken about wanting him back, then those who don't. By that logic, Kaine would have dug up the past too much (most think he was a worse character anyway), and they brought him back in a decent way. Same could be done for ben. A title with Ben in it doesn't have to be in new york, nor does it have to deal with spidey's supporting cast. However... I think a "spider-family" team book would do quite well. I think you'd be surprised.

 

[Themanofbat]

We've had Spider-Family books before... even with Mayday Parker, who had a strong fanbase of 15k, and those books failed to get past an 12th issue... in spite of two or three attempts to make it fly...

The unfortunate reality to a "Spider-Family" book is the lack of supporting characters that could feature regularly... you have Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider, Spider-Girl, Madam Web, maybe Spider-Woman... and then who else... Frog-Man?

I love all those characters and would certainly support a book like that, but I can't see 25k other people agreeing with me....

 

[SpideyInATree]

The bottom line is no matter how much he's supposedly beloved by fans, it will never change the fact that he is the face of one of the most controversial stories in the history of the franchise.

This is why Marvel trying to pass him off as the real Spider-Man back in the day was big mistake. Now all these years later, the fans that got into Spidey comics at the time are all for bringing him back, in favor of Peter, who's 2 years removed from being tarnished just as bad/if not worse than in the 90's during that arc.

I have nothing against Ben Reilly myself, I loved what Dan Jurgens briefly did with him, but he really needs to stay in the rear view mirror. Marvel, Dan and whoever else came up with this constant tease needs to stop before it brings more harm than good.

I certainly agree that the Clone Saga was controversial in it's time. If the editors would have stuck to their guns Ben Reilly would still be here...they just got scared and put things back to normal.

Honestly, Sins Past and One More Day are ten TIMES more controversial than the Clone Saga ever was.

The fact of the matter, and this is coming from a huge Ben Reilly fan, is this is yet another tease in a long line of teases. Ben Reilly is never coming back and it's just a tool to suck in those section of fans to the book. Frankly, it's very tiresome and becoming irritating.

I'm still anxiously awaiting my DCBS box to arrive so I can read the latest issue of Spider-Island but, so far, it's not impressive. If I'm getting yet another Ben Reilly tease and Marvel keeps raising their prices and lower the page count...I don't know what else Marvel wants from me as a reader and a fan. I just hope that these guys realize that DC just put out 52 new books and A LOT of them are very good and there are a lot I'd like to be reading but can't afford. If I drop my Marvel books I'll have room and THEN SOME to even pick up some indie series I've had my eye on.

So, Marvel can continue to tease Ben Reilly fans because all it's doing is pushing people away from the book...readers like me who have sincerely been enjoying the book for the past three years with no complaints. That's not good, Marvel.

 

[runawayboulder]

I'll agree that Spider-Island has been average. That's not a bad thing, its not a disappointment like Shadowland was. This event reminds me of old school/pre clone stuff like Revenge of the Spider Slayers or Round Robin....like I said, average at best. Its hasn't had a wow moment.

Back to Ben, the only reason Sins Past and OMD seem 10x more controversial is due to the internet being around at the time. The Clone Saga forever killed Spider-Man sales, the bubble collapse hurt the characters rebound from it further.

A team book is no different from Heroes 4 Hire and we know what happened there. What makes you think that would sell any better?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

We've had Spider-Family books before... even with Mayday Parker, who had a strong fanbase of 15k, and those books failed to get past an 12th issue... in spite of two or three attempts to make it fly...

The unfortunate reality to a "Spider-Family" book is the lack of supporting characters that could feature regularly... you have Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider, Spider-Girl, Madam Web, maybe Spider-Woman... and then who else... Frog-Man?

I love all those characters and would certainly support a book like that, but I can't see 25k other people agreeing with me....

well.... we do have all of these characters....

Ben Reilly, Black Cat, Spider-Girl (arana), Madame Web, Spider-Woman, Prowler, Scarlet Spider, Tarantula (female), Kaine (if he go changed back to kaine), Anti-Venom, Venom, Toxin, Hybrid, Jackpot, Prowler, Dusk, Richochet, Prodigy, Hornet (if someone took up his mantle), (hell i'd almost support Betty Brant learning peter's secret and having her join as a "watchtower/babs gordon" type of figure eventually), Cardiac, Cloak and Dagger, Firestar, Steel Spider

that's a lot of people to choose from, and some have a decent fanbase... Marvel's had some pretty good runs or successful books that came into fruition just by combining a bunch of characters that can't support there own titles.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'll agree that Spider-Island has been average. That's not a bad thing, its not a disappointment like Shadowland was. This event reminds me of old school/pre clone stuff like Revenge of the Spider Slayers or Round Robin....like I said, average at best. Its hasn't had a wow moment.

Back to Ben, the only reason Sins Past and OMD seem 10x more controversial is due to the internet being around at the time. The Clone Saga forever killed Spider-Man sales, the bubble collapse hurt the characters rebound from it further.

A team book is no different from Heroes 4 Hire and we know what happened there. What makes you think that would sell any better?

lets not shy away from the fact THE ENTIRE comic industry was collapsing. The Clone Saga was not the only thing causing it... but parts of SEVERAL things. Infact... I watched a good documentary once (forget what it was called) but it actually blamed all the "big event/important issues" and "alternate collector covers" that did it... (like the holofoil ones, aunt may's death, etc...). Which is interesting since Marvel did bring ALT covers back... but handled them much better these days.

 

[runawayboulder]

lets not shy away from the fact THE ENTIRE comic industry was collapsing. The Clone Saga was not the only thing causing it... but parts of SEVERAL things. Infact... I watched a good documentary once (forget what it was called) but it actually blamed all the "big event/important issues" and "alternate collector covers" that did it... (like the holofoil ones, aunt may's death, etc...). Which is interesting since Marvel did bring ALT covers back... but handled them much better these days.

I didn't shy away from it, I mentioned it in my post you quoted. Spider-Man's losses were the largest percentage of them all with the exception of maybe Uncanny X-Men. They were always neck and neck in sales.

 

[stillanerd]

Well, well, well. Rich Johnson of Bleeding Cool claims to know who the new Scarlet Spider is, and that it's one of these ten:

1. Peter Parker
2. Ben Reilly
3. Miles Morales
4. Kaine
5. Aunt May (yeah, right)
6. Shang Chi
7. Mary Jane Watson
8. Eddie Brock
9. Norman Osborn (What?!)
10. Joe Michael Straczynski (Suuurrrre it is. )

 

[runawayboulder]

1. Peter Parker
2. Ben Reilly
3. Miles Morales
4. Kaine
5. Aunt May (yeah, right)
6. Shang Chi
7. Mary Jane Watson
8. Eddie Brock
9. Norman Osborn (What?!)
10. Joe Michael Straczynski (Suuurrrre it is. )

1 is my sure-fire pick and 4 is a distinct possibility. I would say Norman has a chance but Bendis is using him so F every other writer and their plans.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, well, well. Rich Johnson of Bleeding Cool claims to know who the new Scarlet Spider is, and that it's one of these ten:

1. Peter Parker
2. Ben Reilly
3. Miles Morales
4. Kaine
5. Aunt May (yeah, right)
6. Shang Chi
7. Mary Jane Watson
8. Eddie Brock
9. Norman Osborn (What?!)
10. Joe Michael Straczynski (Suuurrrre it is. )

So, in other words, he doesn't know s***.

Anyway, I just read the recent Carnage mini from Zeb Wells and Clayton Crain. I am in no way, shape, or form a fan of Crain's art, but the mini was good overall. It's nice to have Carnage back and reunited with the Doppelganger, at least. I could've done without this new symbiote chick, although the doctor character was cool. I'm looking forward to Carnage USA, whenever that's coming out.

 

[runawayboulder]

November

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Cool. I hope we get more than just Spider-Man and Iron Man opposing him this time around.

 

[Shockdingo]

They make it seem as if other symbiotes (those long forgotten) may pop up in Carange USA when it seems the Avengers get overwhelmed. So Toxin could be back along with maybe Hybrid?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That'd be nice. Round up all the other symbiotes and wipe 'em out over the course of the mini, leaving just Venom and Carnage again. Those two are the only ones who've ever been any good.

 

[Kitsune]

I really could care less if Ben was back or not. If it were up to me I'd bring him back just to make the fans happy (I mean, his fans). Dan can make Ben Reilly work. I always imagined Spider-Man having a Spider-Family, like Batman's Bat-Family of characters. Spidey, Spider-Girl, Spider-Woman (a stretch), Anti-Venom, and Black Cat (hell, throw Venom in there, I dunno). And then there's Ben. But I still would rather have Dan bring Debra Whitman back.

Spider-Girl doesn't exist thanks to One More Day.

 

[Themanofbat]

Spider-Girl doesn't exist thanks to One More Day.

Spider-Girl never existed in 616 continuity regardless of OMD.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Spider-Girl never existed in 616 continuity regardless of OMD.

she does now.. isn't Arana caring that title ?

 

[runawayboulder]

He's talking about Peter and MJ's kid from the Clone Saga that lived on in the alternate universe title by DeFalco and Frenz.