The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 47

[Alexei Belyakov]

There's no moral high ground in allowing a monster to continue living. He who does not punish evil commands it to be done.

 

[catgirl18]

I didn't justify Thor chaining him to a rock for enternity, I was justifying Odin chaining Loki to a rock for enternity.

Besides what's so "immoral" about punishing someone who destroyed thousands of sentient beings, those actually killed Loki in the comics before btw.

Loki is his brother if he loves him then ,thor would never do something like that.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Loki is his brother if he loves him then ,thor would never do something like that.

No offense, but are you blind? He said ODIN

 

[BigThor]

Loki is his brother if he loves him then ,thor would never do something like that.

But Thor HAS done something like that before, meaning it actually happened in the comics but I'm not saying that's what he should do.

No offense, but are you blind? He said ODIN

That's what I'm saying, I don't know where her and Wolvie get the idea that I want Thor to be the one to punish Loki since I clearly said Odin.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

in the comic I thought it was terrible because these people are his family.
that is their child and brother and they laugh

Even though Loki does some serious damage and he's punished for it, I've always thought it was a different deal with the Asgardians. Every time Loki is punished, he finds some way to escape and continue wreaking havoc. Even though they probably know this, the Asgardians never end his life. It could be seen as since Loki is his son, Odin just can't bring it upon himself to end his life.

It also seems like some kind of game with the Asgardians though. Just like Ragnarok and the Odinsleep come and go, these invasions repeat themselves and even though they're dangerous times it's just a cycle for the Asgardians. Loki does something, he's imprisoned, he escapes. The cycle repeats itself and I think the Asgardians are accustomed to that.

 

[Herolee10]

True, but this is a war and their are many many casualties in any war.

True; and there have been cases where a character inadvertently killed one of their enemies in the heat of the moment where it was a life threatening situation despite not consciously wanting to do so.

However, if Thor is able to subdue his brother without killing him in the heat of the battle, I believe that he shouldn't kill him when Loki's already out...like how Thor had the chance to finish his brother off during their last battle on the Frost Bridge when Loki was on the ground, but chose not to.

There's no moral high ground in allowing a monster to continue living. He who does not punish evil commands it to be done.

Like I said before, there are other forms of punishment for criminals that doesn't resort to killing them. Like our own justice system, we have laws that can punish a criminal for their wrongdoings without necessarily ending their lives.

Like I mentioned to BT, if it was one of those moments where Thor had no choice/heat of the battle type of moments, then it wouldn't be a crime, but if Thor was able to defeat his brother without killing him, then I don't think that he should kill him right then and there in cold blood.

Like Bruce Wayne told Ra's in BB; it's what separates them from the people that they fight against.

 

[catgirl18]

But Thor HAS done something like that before, meaning it actually happened in the comics but I'm not saying that's what he should do.

I want a happy endingwithout blood and torture because they are brothers

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

There's no moral high ground in allowing a monster to continue living. He who does not punish evil commands it to be done.

I can imagine the other Avengers viewing how Thor and the Asgardians choose to deal with Loki as a problem. On Earth(Midgard) he should get the death penalty, but the rules are different in Asgard.

 

[BigThor]

True; and there have been cases where a character inadvertently killed one of their enemies in the heat of the moment where it was a life threatening situation despite not consciously wanting to do so.

However, if Thor is able to subdue his brother without killing him in the heat of the battle, I believe that he shouldn't kill him when Loki's already out...like how Thor had the chance to finish his brother off during their last battle on the Frost Bridge when Loki was on the ground, but chose not to.
lives.

Yeah I'm not saying Thor should kill Loki, I'm just saying it wouldn't be too out of the question for him to do so in the heat of battle.

I'm in favor of Loki surving and being taken to Asgard to be punished by Odin for his crimes.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Why is Odin the only being perceived as capable of exacting natural justice? Thor's being groomed for his spot, he's perfectly capable himself of doing what's right (vanquishing evil).

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Why is Odin the only being perceived as capable of exacting natural justice? Thor's being groomed for his spot, he's perfectly capable himself of doing what's right (vanquishing evil).

I think it's because Thor isn't the King... yet.

 

[BigThor]

^ What he said

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I wonder if Tony's drinking is going to be shown more in The Avengers, or was that already completely handled in IM2? There were elements there but I want to see something closer to "Demon in a Bottle".

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

The closest thing we got to Demon in a Bottle was a deleted scene from the first film. IM2 was a tremendous waste of time & material. They coulda made him into a drunk & given his deuche persona a motive. The whole movie coulda revolved around him pushing people away through the sauce. Oh well.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

The closest thing we got to Demon in a Bottle was a deleted scene from the first film. IM2 was a tremendous waste of time & material. They coulda made him into a drunk & given his deuche persona a motive. The whole movie coulda revolved around him pushing people away through the sauce. Oh well.

I'd be fine if it's hinted to in The Avengers, and I think it will be. In the "We have a Hulk" scene, Tony's standing behind a bar talking to Loki as he pours himself a drink. Starts at 0:50
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[Alexei Belyakov]

I noticed the drink bit too, but having a drink here and there doesn't make you an alcoholic. The concept of Demon in a Bottle is also irrelevant now since he has no real reason to drink. The idea was for it to grow out of desperation regarding his frustrations. In IM2 they coulda used the reactor poisoning plot device as the trigger for the alcoholism. Now that he's with Pepper, sure of his identity, happy, it just wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly start hitting the sauce hard.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I noticed the drink bit too, but having a drink here and there doesn't make you an alcoholic. The concept of Demon in a Bottle is also irrelevant now since he has no real reason to drink. The idea was for it to grow out of desperation regarding his frustrations. In IM2 they coulda used the reactor poisoning plot device as the trigger for the alcoholism. Now that he's with Pepper, sure of his identity, happy, it just wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly start hitting the sauce hard.

I don't want him to be a full-blown alcoholic in The Avengers but as I said, little hints like Tony having a few drinks in The Avengers can lead into IM3 where it becomes more of a problem. I'm sure there has to be some sort of personal conflict for Tony in IM3 because even though he has everything he wants at the moment, events can change very quickly. Plus, with no type of personal conflict it would be boring.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

At 1:17 Loki says, "How desperate are you, that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?". We then hear Fury reply with, "You've made me very desperate."
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It's edited to look like one scene but Loki's seen talking to Tony at 1:23 when he finishes the line with "...that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?". It didn't show Loki asking Tony how desperate he was so maybe it's still in the Fury scene or maybe Loki mentions desperation to both characters? It kind of seems like they edited it to make "How desperate are you, that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?" seem like one full line, when in the movie it might not be.

 

[The Morningstar]

Tony's drink problems and overall nihilistic, self destructive mentality was done well in IM2. One of the only things done well.

It was all there for us to see, we don't need to be told about it. Show, don't tell.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Once again it's "Who are the aliens?"

A nice article on the "Annihilation Wave / Negative Zone"-theory:

http://www.**************.com/news/?a=55599#comments

EDIT: Ah... now that is the kind of link that isn't allowed?

 

[SpideyFan866]

There's no moral high ground in allowing a monster to continue living. He who does not punish evil commands it to be done.

Did Batman Begins teach you nothing? or do you just believe in the Ra's Al Ghul method of justice, where one must be willing to do what is necessary to fight injustice, even killing?

 

[Dr Lee]

At 1:17 Loki says, "How desperate are you, that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?". We then hear Fury reply with, "You've made me very desperate."
[YT]tY9DnBNJFTI[/YT]
It's edited to look like one scene but Loki's seen talking to Tony at 1:23 when he finishes the line with "...that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?". It didn't show Loki asking Tony how desperate he was so maybe it's still in the Fury scene or maybe Loki mentions desperation to both characters? It kind of seems like they edited it to make "How desperate are you, that you call on such lost creatures to defend you?" seem like one full line, when in the movie it might not be.

I may be completely wrong... but could Fury be at the penthouse with Loki & Stark?

 

[Herolee10]

 

[BigThor]

Did Batman Begins teach you nothing? or do you just believe in the Ra's Al Ghul method of justice, where one must be willing to do what is necessary to fight injustice, even killing?

That's the difference between Marvel and DC heroes, Marvel heroes will kill where as it takes an act of God for most DC heroes to kill.

 

[quara33]

Once again it's "Who are the aliens?"

A nice article on the "Annihilation Wave / Negative Zone"-theory:

http://www.**************.com/news/?a=55599#comments

EDIT: Ah... now that is the kind of link that isn't allowed?

Links to that particular site aren't allowed. But it is an interesting article