The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 50

[Drummerdude7]

But, to have investment in the characters totally and the narrative, you have to have seen the previous films.

This is the culmination of five films worth of "mostly consistent" work. You can't go into this film completely not having seen the previous five films. You wouldn't really care about what's going on with the characters....unless Joss Whedon does a massive prologue explaining all the characters...and then that makes the previous five films pointless if he did so.

I understand what you mean.

My boss is going into this film having seen none of the previous films. He thought it looks awesome from the trailers and has asked me about it in passing. So it's not completely necessary, but to have a more detailed understanding, then yeah I get what you're saying.

And from rumors, it sounds like there will be a short prologue summing up the previous films.

 

[J.Howlett]

...gee, why do I get the feeling you've already made up your mind about this film

Gee, get off your high horse. I haven't. I'm very, very curious to see how they solve certain things in this film. I didn't say Joss wouldn't. I'm curious to see how...

 

[J.Howlett]

I understand what you mean.

My boss is going into this film having seen none of the previous films. He thought it looks awesome from the trailers and has asked me about it in passing. So it's not completely necessary, but to have a more detailed understanding, then yeah I get what you're saying.

And from rumors, it sounds like there will be a short prologue summing up the previous films.

And I was curious to see if they did that. That should be an interesting prologue. Hopefully, they took their cue from how Peter Jackson did the prologue in The Fellowship of the Ring.

That's about the best way to handle a wealth of exposition to understand the story you're about to watch.

 

[Xeno]

I just see some narrative hiccups at the beginning of this film that could've been avoided had Marvel thought out this entire Universe they've tried to build from day one. Not totally thought out but a nice sizeable outline from Iron Man to Avengers.

You can't possibly know that there are "narrative hiccups" until you actually see the film. All you are doing is assuming that there are problems at this point, and providing your idea of a solution where none may be needed.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I just see some narrative hiccups at the beginning of this film that could've been avoided had Marvel thought out this entire Universe they've tried to build from day one. Not totally thought out but a nice sizeable outline from Iron Man to Avengers.

Yes, I understand that you obviously find problems in the stories already released. So do I and so do many other fans. But using "I would have changed this" to justify a foregone conclusion about this upcoming film makes no sense. You can't change the past, so why not focus your cognitive reasoning on how THIS film will play out within the already established parameters? It seems to make a whole lot more sense, and stops you from making definitive statements about a film you haven't seen.

 

[Drummerdude7]

Yeah, while background isnt entirely necessary, it definitely informs the viewers a hundred times better and gets them more invested

 

[J.Howlett]

Poni,

Here's my mind set; I haven't bought any of the films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe yet because I'm waiting on the Avengers. I'm waiting to see if the investment, on Blu Ray, will be worth it.

And that has everything to do with how this film works, in conjunction with the previous five.

I'm ready to pull the trigger...but that all depends on Joss.

 

[Silvermoon]

Because Loki's a master of magic. That's not really Thor's thing.

Just think about the end of Thor if Thor destroys the BiFrost, gets transported to Earth, Loki's presumed dead...and then you have a situation that's somewhat tragic in that Odin, Frigga, the Warrior's Three, and Sif think that both Loki and Thor are lost.

Thor's on Earth, under the watchful eye of SHIELD, when all of sudden strange crap starts happening on Earth and Thor easily recognizes it, tells Fury to get some troops assembled and we're right into the film....

Not saying my way is correct or not but at least, you're not wasting time.

Plus, we all know that Thor's going to be taking Loki back to Asgard at the end of the film. Think about the scene at the end of this film or the beginning of Thor 2 that has Thor show up on Asgard and everyone's delighted to see him alive, with a captured Loki and then you're right into Thor 2's narrative...

Regarding bolded sections, doesn't this completely undermine Heimdall's power though (and possibly Odin's as well - I could be mistaken on that, I've admitted I'm not a comic book reader)? They wouldn't worry because they thanks to at least Heimdall, they would know exactly where he is and that he's okay. Loki of course would remain a question mark because we already know (thanks to the Thor movie) that he can hide himself from Heimdall's gaze quite effectively.

You bring up an interesting proposition/idea... but personally I don't agree with it. I'm fine with how Thor ended and I'm anxious to see how that ending ties into Avengers. I read what was leaked of the Storybook and when it described how Thor shows up, I got ridiculously giddy. I don't think I'd have that type of excitement if Thor has been on earth for 2 years and we don't get to have this showdown where Thor realizes IM & Cap are the good guys. Him having been on earth for that long would, to me, feel incredibley anti-climatic in terms of the team "coming together"

Just my opinion though

 

[Drummerdude7]

Poni,

Here's my mind set; I haven't bought any of the films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe yet because I'm waiting on the Avengers. I'm waiting to see if the investment, on Blu Ray, will be worth it.

And that has everything to do with how this film works, in conjunction with the previous five.

I'm ready to pull the trigger...but that all depends on Joss.

Damn you just made me realize there's probably going to be a huge blu ray box set. I've bought em all separately :'-(

 

[Poni_Boy]

Gee, get off your high horse. I haven't. I'm very, very curious to see how they solve certain things in this film. I didn't say Joss wouldn't. I'm curious to see how...

No high horse involved, I'm responding to the particular emphasis in your statements. Don't highlight points like "mostly consistent" or "wasting time" when you have no idea what the outcome is. You seem to have already made up your mind that this film can't properly tie into the last one(s) because you see a "better" way it "should" have played out. That, as I said, makes no sense until you see this film.

 

[J.Howlett]

Yes, I understand that you obviously find problems in the stories already released. So do I and so do many other fans. But using "I would have changed this" to justify a foregone conclusion about this upcoming film makes no sense. You can't change the past, so why not focus your cognitive reasoning on how THIS film will play out within the already established parameters? It seems to make a whole lot more sense, and stops you from making definitive statements about a film you haven't seen.

We'll see.

 

[J.Howlett]

Regarding bolded sections, doesn't this completely undermine Heimdall's power though (and possibly Odin's as well - I could be mistaken on that, I've admitted I'm not a comic book reader)?

I thought about that after I typed it...

 

[J.Howlett]

No high horse involved, I'm responding to the particular emphasis in your statements. Don't highlight points like "mostly consistent" or "wasting time" when you have no idea what the outcome is. You seem to have already made up your mind that this film can't properly tie into the last one(s) because you see a "better" way it "should" have played out. That, as I said, makes no sense until you see this film.

Well, I don't think the films have been all the way consistent from Iron Man to Captain America. That's just my opinion. Again, it's solid.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yeah, while background isnt entirely necessary, it definitely informs the viewers a hundred times better and gets them more invested

Exactly. MS can't set a "you have to see the previous five films for this one one make sense" precedent with this film. They just can't. It has to standalone as it's own complete story. At this point the previous films are nothing more than prologues.

 

[J.Howlett]

Damn you just made me realize there's probably going to be a huge blu ray box set. I've bought em all separately :'-(

Bingo!

 

[Chewy]

Damn you just made me realize there's probably going to be a huge blu ray box set. I've bought em all separately :'-(

Since Poni's here maybe he can answer this: CAN they make a huge blu ray boxset? Considering Universal produced the TIH BRDs while Paramount produced the others?

 

[J.Howlett]

Exactly. MS can't set a "you have to see the previous five films or this one one make sense" precedent with this film. They just can't. It has to standalone as it's own complete story. At this point the previous films are nothing more than prologues.

And they feel that way. And that's been my main issue with the Cinematic Universe from the get go.

None of the films have been real stories. They're all warm ups to the real story. And damn it, the real story better have been worth the franchise building that's hampered some narrative opportunities loss within in the individual character films.

 

[J.Howlett]

Since Poni's here maybe he can answer this: CAN they make a huge blu ray boxset? Considering Universal produced the TIH BRDs while Paramount produced the others?

Universal doesn't own The Incredible Hulk. They just distributed it. Marvel can make a box set of all the films. Just look at the Rocky Collection on Blu Ray.

 

[Chewy]

Universal doesn't own The Incredible Hulk. They just distributed it. Marvel can make a box set of all the films.

But Universal owns the rights to produce the TIH DVDs.

 

[Kirmit]

What do people think the pacing of the film will be like? I've noticed Marvel's films tend to be composed of alot of short scenes, quickly jumping from one scene to the next, this doesn't seem like Whedon's style to me but do you think they'll keep going like this?

 

[Poni_Boy]

And they feel that way. And that's been my main issue with the Cinematic Universe from the get go.

None of the films have been real stories. They're all warm ups to the real story. And damn it, the real story better have been worth the franchise building that's hampered some narrative opportunities loss within in the individual character films.

You're misinterpreting what I said. The previous ones ARE standalone films (with the exception of IM2; but the release switch between that and Thor was the big issue). You don't HAVE to watch The Avengers to enjoy any of the five previous ones. Just like you don't have to watch the previous five to enjoy The Avengers.

You're saying that neither TIH, Thor, Cap or IM were "real stories"? Really?

 

[Poni_Boy]

Since Poni's here maybe he can answer this: CAN they make a huge blu ray boxset? Considering Universal produced the TIH BRDs while Paramount produced the others?

Last I heard (this was back in December) Disney got the green light from Uni for the compilation set.

EDIT: That's not saying Uni won't get a cut of the set. They're getting a cut from the Marvel marathon AMC is hosting in May.

 

[Drummerdude7]

And they feel that way. And that's been my main issue with the Cinematic Universe from the get go.

None of the films have been real stories. They're all warm ups to the real story. And damn it, the real story better have been worth the franchise building that's hampered some narrative opportunities loss within in the individual character films.

I would agree with all except for the first Iron Man. Maybe TIH too

 

[captainrogers]

It won't standalone. By the very definition of how these characters come together in this film, it's not a standalone.

No matter what they say, you have to have seen the previous films to understand, at least, 30% of this movie.

Standalone, this is not.

I think it is. Especially if it has that supposed voice over at the beginning explaining the status quo of this Universe as it stands up to that point.
My first exposure to Firefly actually came from watching Serenity.
I loved that movie.
It was after that that I found out about the entire series that preceded it.
Whedon proved (to me) that he was able to make an interesting, coherent movie without me having to go thru the cinematic version of it's "back issues".
(but I wanted to, just the same)

 

[Splat]

KF has said in multiple interviews you won't have to have seen any of the previous films to enjoy the Avengers.