The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 51

[Raiden]

It's more about if they can find a way to make it work. I'd argue that no character just deserves a big screen adaption. But if you CAN do it and you want to and are in the business of such things then why not? It's true that Hank & Jan's history is more important as Avengers team members than as solo heroes unlike the big 4 but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a shot. It also doesn't mean they automatically DO deserve one. But I can see where their presence in the MCU would be a very good thing to have(and I don't just mean to get the Ultron story rolling). A husband & wife superhero duo is a dynamic that so far has not been touched on much in films. That's something I'd pay to see.

Even though Marvel Studios only makes superhero movies and now is owned by the Disney conglomerate, they still have finite amount of resources to distribute on making their movies, and I think this is why they keep postponing Ant-Man movie because quite frankly there are just bigger fishes to fry out there. They're probably going to make a trilogy out of Thor and Cap, and finishing up IM3, which would keep them occupied for the next few years. And then there's other properties such as Dr. Strange, the Runaways, and maybe even Black Panther that they might be considering.

Henry Pym/Ant-Man could work, but let's face it: he's always associated more closely with The Avengers than by himself, same with Black Widow and Hawkeye who don't even have their own solo movies (yet). I can understand Marvel's hesitation on making this movie due to his lack of a great origin story, limited name recognition outside comicdom, and the staggering number of projects still left on their plate. And they have to ask themselves this question: with only 2 MS movies out per year, should they really make Ant-Man one of their priorities in the near future? I don't really think so, at this point.

 

[Nova2113]

By that logic then no Spider-Man movie should have ever gotten made because there are many people suffering from arachnophobia.

...And I also hate Carol's new look.

This is true... But you see one actual spider the whole movie and the kid doesn't grow 4 extra arms...

That being said its jystt my opinion and knowing me since ir would be in the MCU I'd see the movie in the theaters anyway.... Gotta support lol

 

[kaijunexus]

I've just never been big on a movie adaptation of the Pym's. It would have to be handled pretty carefully. First off, the whole genius scientist thing is already kinda played out, hell u have 2 in the MCU alone with Tony and Bruce. Next, their powers are really nothing to write home about, a size-changing dude with a tinkerbell-like wife who shoots stinging rays. They don't bring things that make them unique to the MCU like Dr.Strange or Black Panther would. They do bring Ultron with them so thats a big plus though.

With Hank and Janet, the appeal lies not with their powers (though the dramatic size changing could be very appealing special effects-wise) but with their relationship. We don't have any married superhero couples in the MCU, not to mention any with the kind of dysfunctional relationship that Hank and Janet have. Even Reed and Sue are the ideal, loving couple.

An Ant-Man/Wasp film would benefit comedically and dramatically from the a Hank/Janet dynamic. Of course, just placing them in the Avengers 2 would have the same affect for that film.

 

[Nova2113]

I took a moment to contemplate this, suddenly an old science fiction insect fear film about super-smart hyper-intelligent ants came to mind and I creeped myself out. lol Think I'm with you on this. Even in the comic books when he got into a fight with wasp and had his ants swarm her, that was just terrible and creepy..... but that's just me...

Reading this had me cracking up.... Cause that's exactly what I was thinking

 

[TheVileOne]

It's pretty clear in recent years what with the Disney acquisition and the rest, the plans for some of these movies have changed including Ant-Man.

Remember, Thor was supposed to be set completely on Asgard at first. Namor never got done.

Wright did Scott Pilgrim which flopped and he also worked on Tintin.

If you do Ant-Man, the best way to introduce him is in another Marvel film or an Avengers sequel.

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's more about if they can find a way to make it work. I'd argue that no character just deserves a big screen adaption. But if you CAN do it and you want to and are in the business of such things then why not? It's true that Hank & Jan's history is more important as Avengers team members than as solo heroes unlike the big 4 but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a shot. It also doesn't mean they automatically DO deserve one. But I can see where their presence in the MCU would be a very good thing to have(and I don't just mean to get the Ultron story rolling). A husband & wife superhero duo is a dynamic that so far has not been touched on much in films. That's something I'd pay to see.

That's the the point I'm discussing or responding to. I said that Ant-Man and Wasp do not automatically deserve solo movies because the characters themselves aren't built around the solo project concept. They absolutely need to be in the MCU and that's why I'm glad Wright's film won't happen.

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's pretty clear in recent years what with the Disney acquisition and the rest, the plans for some of these movies have changed including Ant-Man.

Remember, Thor was supposed to be set completely on Asgard at first. Namor never got done.

Wright did Scott Pilgrim which flopped and he also worked on Tintin.

If you do Ant-Man, the best way to introduce him is in another Marvel film or an Avengers sequel.

Which is the supposedly the plan.

 

[Suzanne78]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I start to see the logic in not having a solo Hank/Jan movie. I guess introducing them in an Avengers sequel, with Ultron being the big bad, would be fine... maybe. It'd be quite a load, to cram in Ultron and building Hank and Jan's characters along with all the other Avengers. I could see it being the smaller, more intimate plot that Joss talked about for any future Avenger movies. If Joss were coming back on board for the sequels, he'd know how to work that storyline without losing the rest of the ensemble.

 

[kedrell]

I'm fine with both of them getting introduced in another film that may not be their own. Works for BW & Hawkeye.

 

[Raiden]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I start to see the logic in not having a solo Hank/Jan movie. I guess introducing them in an Avengers sequel, with Ultron being the big bad, would be fine... maybe. It'd be quite a load, to cram in Ultron and building Hank and Jan's characters along with all the other Avengers. I could see it being the smaller, more intimate plot that Joss talked about for any future Avenger movies. If Joss were coming back on board for the sequels, he'd know how to work that storyline without losing the rest of the ensemble.

I can see something like this for TA2: Henry Pym & his wife Janet worked as researchers within SHIELD, developing the Pym Particles as well as the Ultron prototype. Some villain hacked the main frame, and unleashed Ultron to the world, and since both Henry and Janet have had experiences with Ultron Fury assigned them to the Avengers Initiative to take out the renegade robot. When it proves to become too big a menace to handle, other Avengers joined in, including BW, Hawkeye, and some or all the the Big Three (depending on who they can get back for the sequel). At the end of the movie, Fury decided to make both Pyms the permanent members of Avengers for their achievements on taking down Ultron.

Since Henry & Janet Pym are new characters, it'd make sense to focus on them and their origin early, then re-introducing the past Avengers members as the threat grows. They don't need their own solo movie for that.

 

[TheVileOne]

Which is the supposedly the plan.

Which at this point kills any plans for an Edgar Wright movie even though no one at Marvel will say it's officially dead.

Wright is already fielding other projects. Whatever his next flick is, it's NOT going to be Ant-Man. It looks like Marvel/Disney and Wright have moved on.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Which at this point kills any plans for an Edgar Wright movie even though no one at Marvel will say it's officially dead.

Wright is already fielding other projects. Whatever his next flick is, it's NOT going to be Ant-Man. It looks like Marvel/Disney and Wright have moved on.

And they never will unless extenuating circumstances dictate it would be to their benefit.

Also, since the majority of people still think this movie is on the table it would make a surprise cameo in an Avengers movie more... umm, surpriseier

 

[Raiden]

Which at this point kills any plans for an Edgar Wright movie even though no one at Marvel will say it's officially dead.

Wright is already fielding other projects. Whatever his next flick is, it's NOT going to be Ant-Man. It looks like Marvel/Disney and Wright have moved on.

It doesn't make sense of any Marvel Studios movie to be not part of the MCU anyway, except maybe The Runaways, so I think it is in Marvel's best interest to cancel this project.

 

[BatsDC]

Maybe Marvel could introduce Hank and Jan in a miniseries? Maybe three episodes - introducing them, then their powers, then taking on a villain, and Ultron possibly being worked on. With Disney and ABC, I'm sure it would be possible. Plus, it means they can still make films based on other characters. The budget wouldn't have to be that big either. And it also means we don't have to spend a lot of time in an Avengers movie introducing them and developing them.

 

[Poni_Boy]

It doesn't make sense of any Marvel Studios movie to be not part of the MCU anyway, except maybe The Runaways, so I think it is in Marvel's best interest to cancel this project.

When you guys give me the chance to explain my side of things you'll understand my rationale I'm not a contrarian, as opposed to what people may think.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think it will only make sense if as time goes on circumstances will allow that.

However the ideas I've heard for this flick just don't mesh with what Marvel/Disney are pursuing at this point. They've made this being one big cinematic universe one of the selling points of this movie.

And while I love the Ant-Man character, I think it's tough to justify making a movie for him for $150 million. Especially if it's strictly Ant-Man. I think one of the things I love about Pym is the duality that he's not just Ant-Man he's also Giant Man. His particles are NOT restricted to growing small but huge as well. The animated series does a fantastic job at this. It also shows how you have super geniuses like Stark and Pym together. Pym on his own is more of an intellectual and pacifist. He's more liberally minded. He'd rather talk things out with the bad guys instead of punch them. He wants criminals to be rehabilitated instead of punished. In the animated series, Ultron is harmless as milk at first. It's not until their backs are against the wall and Pym teaches Ultron violence that he becomes dangerous. Ultron would've been fine until circumstances beyond their control influenced otherwise. So all that is writing to me that IMHO movies could take a few hints from.

So in the movies naturally you could have Stark's more aggressive, capitalistic and conservative genius brain clashing with Pym's more pacifist, socialist liberal minded genius one.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Maybe Marvel could introduce Hank and Jan in short films? Maybe three episodes - introducing them, then their powers, then taking on a villain.

Fixed

 

[BatsDC]

Fixed

Thinking about it again, short films would actually most likley be better. Could be great having a short film introducing Hank and Pym Particles was infront of The Avengers. Then, say, another infront of Iron Man 3, and so on. Also means the GA will remember them.

 

[Nova2113]

I've just never been big on a movie adaptation of the Pym's. It would have to be handled pretty carefully. First off, the whole genius scientist thing is already kinda played out, hell u have 2 in the MCU alone with Tony and Bruce. Next, their powers are really nothing to write home about, a size-changing dude with a tinkerbell-like wife who shoots stinging rays. They don't bring things that make them unique to the MCU like Dr.Strange or Black Panther would. They do bring Ultron with them so thats a big plus though.

Yea agree with your statement here... that's how I see it. Just seems like too much going on power wise. But I would like to see that Ultron storyline played out on screen

 

[Blue Hero]

Thanks to those who commented on my stuff.

You might like this one too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEZ...DvjVQa1PpcFMBC3EPd1thhpUUXWTonh2SiZqcr5CU5D0=

As for the Hank Pym deal... I like the husband-wife superhero deal... but I might rather have that for some other hero. To be honest, I've never been really compelled by the characters--and the idea of a Black Panther or Cap/Ms. Marvel movies pushes everything else to the back-burner.

 

[shigsy2003]

Reading this had me cracking up.... Cause that's exactly what I was thinking

I presume you're referring to Them! Great film.

 

[Ash Talon]

I honestly don't understand the comparison. I love the hell out of Nak Pym/Ant-Man and even I can see that a solo movie with him does not make sense without MAJOR retooling of the character. Blade didn't need any retooling for his film because he had solid standalone character potential.

Uh...you do realize that Ant-Man started as a solo character. His stories ran in Tales to Astonish for a year before Avengers began (and several years after as well), hence Avengers was a Justice League type book of previously-existing characters coming together to form a team. They all had individual books before forming the team.

While Ant-Man & Wasp are key to the Avengers and should be worked into future Avengers films, they could also exist in at least one, non-Avengers film. Their powers could be very cool on film. It's been a while since we've seen shrinking powers on film, and we've never really seen them applied to an espionage-type story. Ant-Man and Wasp could show another aspect to Avengers, just like Hawkeye and Black Widow. In fact, maybe the couple-aspect to Hawkeye and BW (if they're treated that way in Avengers) could work against the Pyms being treated that way.

I think the Pyms could work in a solo film. Smaller budget (less than $100 million). Hank is a SHIELD scientist. Maybe he's dating Janet, or she's another SHIELD scientist, although her being outside the secret agent realm would offer a refreshing perspective for audiences. They gain their powers, and SHIELD uses them for espionage. Or Pym has to prove the usefulness of his discovery to SHIELD. He pulls in Janet, maybe accidentally, to help him expose some suspected bad guys (AIM as an offshoot of SHIELD traitors?) and prove his worth. Sounds like classic Hank Pym.

Tying them into Fury and SHIELD will give them a good marketing boost and help flesh out the onscreen Marvel universe. Given the smaller budget, their film won't have to make hundreds of millions to be a success. Have Fury and maybe another Avenger cameo (Hawkeye and Black Widow). It'll add just another piece to the Marvel puzzle.

I just don't think every Marvel movie needs to have a huge budget. Street-level and lower-tier characters don't need huge budgets. But they could still offer interesting stories and films and find accepting audiences.

 

[mara]

Thanks to those who commented on my stuff.

You might like this one too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEZ...DvjVQa1PpcFMBC3EPd1thhpUUXWTonh2SiZqcr5CU5D0=

As for the Hank Pym deal... I like the husband-wife superhero deal... but I might rather have that for some other hero. To be honest, I've never been really compelled by the characters--and the idea of a Black Panther or Cap/Ms. Marvel movies pushes everything else to the back-burner.

LOL. Good video, made me giggle, specially the "pin the tale on Loki" bit. Love the t-shirt!

 

[Raiden]

In light of John Carter's failure at the box office, Disney now has one less tentpole movie that they had pinned their hopes on for 2012 (The Avengers and Brave are two others). Do you think Disney will now shift even more focus on TA since I doubt the suits want a repeat of their mistakes with JC?

 

[TheVileOne]

Well if they don't perform the current regime I'd say are in pretty big trouble. But I imagine they will do pretty well.

Also, it's been pretty obvious for months the higher focus has been on THE AVENGERS. Even Disney was treating JOHN CARTER like they knew it was a bomb.