The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 53

[Chewy]

They absolutely need to get Hulk's cognitive abilities a steady evolution. Whether that means he speaks in full sentences now or in another movie they need to SHOW that he is growing in his abilities/capabilities. Just like Thor needs to learn how to travel between dimensions on his own and Cap needs to prove his worth as a leader for The Avengers team. Character progression, when it's forced it doesn't work.

Of course. And when it's ignored a film suffers.

 

[marvel_freshman]

 

[Rock Sexton]

All it takes is a bit of body language to characterise someone. The idea that Hulk himself isn't on screen enough to become a full character of his own is a cop out.

He's had that already .... and yes, when you get only a handful of moments with the character it becomes very hard to legitimize him as a separate entity. As Poni said, it would take multiple films to get to accomplished appropriately.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Very well received by critics? Not really. It was practically the same critical reception as Ang's movie, which is for some reason maligned.

How are they supposed to show that in one movie? Well Ang's movie did it much better. A couple bits of body language, a single line of dialogue, showed Hulk is a separate, free thinking character all of his own.

Alexi is saying he doesn't want Hulk to be his own individual character. He wants Hulk to be an extension of Banner. Which is incorrect. That is not what Hulk is. The scene at the end of TIH where Banner consciously raises his heart beat so he can initiate a "hulk out" sums up what i think is completely wrong with that interpretation of the character. It's mind boggling that anyone who likes and understands the Hulk can accept that version.

Yes, it was very well received by all the reviewers who matter: Variety, EW, Hollywood Reporter, etc. It made close to $300 mil worldwide off of barely ANY promotion. I would say that's a success. You seem to be forgetting that Ang Lee's Hulk was a poison to the character's cinematic ventures. It doesn't matter how artsy it was and what message it had, people did not like it for the most part and thought TIH was a sequel so they didn't want to see it. That's why it had legs at the BO.

And... where did he say that? I didn't notice that anywhere. From what I gather he's saying the same thing I am, that you need to slowly guide the audiences in with a completely CGI character like Hulk that has no relevance in our real world. Having him show up being his own person, hating Banner, not wanting to change back, showing off his powers -- and I don't care if in Ang Lee's they were "just like the comics" cause they looked stupid and people laughed -- you can't do that ALL in ONE movie.

 

[Quasimod0]

She looks great in these. Love the hair too.

 

[craigdbfan]

She looks great in the picture on the left. Very pretty face.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yes, it was very well received by all the reviewers who matter: Variety, EW, Hollywood Reporter, etc. It made close to $300 mil worldwide off of barely ANY promotion. I would say that's a success. You seem to be forgetting that Ang Lee's Hulk was a poison to the character's cinematic ventures. It doesn't matter how artsy it was and what message it had, people did not like it for the most part and thought TIH was a sequel so they didn't want to see it. That's why it had legs at the BO.

TIH made about 10 million more than Ang's. And the idea that Ang's was poison is also a cop out, even though i'm sure it had some effect on the OW. And it didn't have big legs at the BO, otherwise it would have made significantly more than it did. First Class nearly made 400 million off the back of the utter disasters that were Wolverine and X3. I'd put more blame on the crap marketing campaign and trailers that had unfinished, crappy looking CGI.

And... where did he say that? I didn't notice that anywhere. From what I gather he's saying the same thing I am, that you need to slowly guide the audiences in with a completely CGI character like Hulk that has no relevance in our real world. Having him show up being his own person, hating Banner, not wanting to change back, showing off his powers -- and I don't care if in Ang Lee's they were "just like the comics" cause they looked stupid and people laughed -- you can't do that ALL in ONE movie.

By saying he wants Banner to control the beast. That's not how it works. That's not Hulk. Hulk isn't a beast to be controlled. Hulk is a separate entity, he is Banner's rage personified. Banner shouldn't have control over Hulk. Banner shouldn't be able to turn Hulk on willfully. He's not Billy Batson and Hulk isn't Captain Marvel.

And yes you can do that in one movie, if you have a skillfull enough of a film maker.

Example. The first Hulk out in Ang's, he's smashing up Banner's lab. He then stops, looks at the Gamma machine thing, then destroys it. Right there is an example of body language that shows Hulk as a free thinking, individual character who resents Banner. Also the part where he's jumping through the air with a calm, peaceful look on his face. Or looking at his reflection in the water with a childlike wonder.

No dialogue required, but still good characterisation. So the idea that Hulk can't be characterised as an individual character of his own is frankly, ********.

 

[Chewy]

TIH made about 10 million more than Ang's. And the idea that Ang's was poison is also a cop out. And it didn't have big legs at the BO. First Class nearly made 400 million off the back of the utter disasters that were Wolverine and X3.

First Class was released in a climate where making money overseas is much easier. First Class also received significant promotion overseas. Outside of select European countries TIH did not.

And moviegoers HATED AngHulk. That can't be overstated. It utterly collapsed after its opening weekend, before that was commonplace

 

[The Morningstar]

First Class was released in a climate where making money overseas is much easier. First Class also received significant promotion overseas. Outside of select European countries TIH did not.

And moviegoers HATED AngHulk. That can't be overstated. It utterly collapsed after its opening weekend, before that was commonplace

Of course they hated it. They went in expecting an action fest and got a long winded psychodrama. Ang's film isn't perfect by any means, the middle part drags waaaaaaay too much.

But it represents the Hulk, as an individual character of his own, so much better and more accurately than TIH. I don't even see how this is up for debate really.

 

[MrGreen]

TIH made about 10 million more than Ang's. And the idea that Ang's was poison is also a cop out, even though i'm sure it had some effect on the OW. And it didn't have big legs at the BO, otherwise it would have made significantly more than it did. First Class nearly made 400 million off the back of the utter disasters that were Wolverine and X3. I'd put more blame on the crap marketing campaign and trailers that had unfinished, crappy looking CGI.



By saying he wants Banner to control the beast. That's not how it works. That's not Hulk. Hulk isn't a beast to be controlled. Hulk is a separate entity, he is Banner's rage personified. Banner shouldn't have control over Hulk. Banner shouldn't be able to turn Hulk on willfully. He's not Billy Batson and Hulk isn't Captain Marvel.

And yes you can do that in one movie, if you have a skillfull enough of a film maker.

Example. The first Hulk out in Ang's, he's smashing up Banner's lab. He then stops, looks at the Gamma machine thing, then destroys it. Right there is an example of body language that shows Hulk as a free thinking, individual character who resents Banner. Also the part where he's jumping through the air with a calm, peaceful look on his face. Or looking at his reflection in the water with a childlike wonder.

No dialogue required, but still good characterisation. So the idea that Hulk can't be characterised as an individual character of his own is frankly, ********.

And in TIH we get that kind of scenes when he protects Betty, the cave scene and when he touches and removes the (HUGE) tear from Betty's face. I agree that one of the scenes that I liked the most from Ang's Hulk were when he was calm at the desert but TIH's Hulk also had a personality of his own like when he just wanted to be left alone (like in the comics) and went to the jungle to be there by himself (wich we don't see) just like in Ang's Hulk.

 

[Chewy]

Of course they hated it. They went in expecting an action fest and got a long winded psychodrama. Ang's film isn't perfect by any means, the middle part drags waaaaaaay too much.

But it represents the Hulk, as an individual character of his own, so much better than TIH. I don't even see how this is up for debate really.

Disagree. AngHulk is plodding and boring. That doesn't represent the Hulk character I know. A film can study character without sacrificing pace.

Meanwhile Nick Nolte's performance was almost as horrible as Ahnold's in Batman and Robin.

 

[Poni_Boy]

First Class was released in a climate where making money overseas is much easier. First Class also received significant promotion overseas. Outside of select European countries TIH did not.

And moviegoers HATED AngHulk. That can't be overstated. It utterly collapsed after its opening weekend, before that was commonplace

And not to mention that MS put all their marketing money into Iron Man that summer. THAT is the movie they felt needed the most hype. TIH was ignored and still came out with good money.

And, yes, Ang's Hulk was hated by the general audience. No talking in circles will change that.

 

[Splat]

She looks great in these. Love the hair too.

Agreed. I've heard some complaints about her hair but it looks fine.

 

[The Morningstar]

Disagree. AngHulk is plodding and boring. That doesn't represent the Hulk character I know. A film can study character without sacrificing pace.

Meanwhile Nick Nolte's performance was almost as horrible as Ahnold's in Batman and Robin.

I'm not talking about the pace and tone. I'm talking about the Hulk himself. It's a more accurate and interesting interpretation of the character.

None of this fast heart beat causes him to "hulk out" crap. None of this Banner can wilfully initiate a "hulk out" crap. None of this Hulk as an extension of Banner crap. It's all crap and inaccurate to the source material. Which in itself isn't a problem, if it improves on the source material. But it doesn't, it actually makes it less complex and less about the psychology of the character.

Also the action scene in the desert is better than anything in TIH and Sam Elliot as a three dimensional Ross instead of a cliche, firebrand military general like Hurt's Ross makes up for Nolte's insanity.

 

[Quasimod0]

We do have a hulk thread.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm not talking about the pace and tone. I'm talking about the Hulk himself. It's a more accurate and interesting interpretation of the character.

None of this fast heart beat causes him to "hulk out" crap. None of this Banner can wilfully initiate a "hulk out" crap. None of this Hulk as an extension of Banner crap. It's all crap and inaccurate to the source material. Which in itself isn't a problem, if it improves on the source material. But it doesn't.

Also the action scene in the desert is better than anything in TIH

His heartbeat didn't cause him to Hulk out. Anger and elevated emotional responses did. Especially anger which he STATED in the film itself. It was just a visual aid for audiences to see his anger overflowing. It set a threshold, that we could follow along with.

I do think it was an improvement as an origin story for Banner and Hulk. Origin story. Not a full on Hulk storyline where all the pieces are in place. Origin story, which is what TIH was.

IMO it was a much better origin story than the comic book version. You would have rather Hulk go hide in a circus? And talk to the freak show people? I'm sure audiences would have loved that. Bottom line is this: Hulk is NOT a good cinematic solo hero if you just try to translate him directly from his comic book incarnation. He isn't relatable, so obviously they need to change that.

 

[MrGreen]

His heartbeat didn't cause him to Hulk out. Anger and elevated emotional responses did. Especially anger which he STATED in the film itself. It was just a visual aid for audiences to see his anger overflowing. It set a threshold, that we could follow along with.

I do think it was an improvement as an origin story for Banner and Hulk. Origin story. Not a full on Hulk storyline where all the pieces are in place. Origin story, which is what TIH was.

IMO it was a much better origin story than the comic book version. You would have rather Hulk go hide in a circus?

I liked a lot the origin in TIH but I just wanna see the good ol' gamma bomb origin on the big screen for once

 

[Chewy]

I'm not talking about the pace and tone. I'm talking about the Hulk himself. It's a more accurate and interesting interpretation of the character.

None of this fast heart beat causes him to "hulk out" crap. None of this Banner can wilfully initiate a "hulk out" crap. None of this Hulk as an extension of Banner crap. It's all crap and inaccurate to the source material. Which in itself isn't a problem, if it improves on the source material. But it doesn't, it actually makes it less complex and less about the psychology of the character.

Also the action scene in the desert is better than anything in TIH and Sam Elliot as a three dimensional Ross instead of a cliche, firebrand military general like Hurt's Ross makes up for Nolte's insanity.

A movie called "Hulk" should be reflective of its titular character in pace and tone. That's far more important to me than the minutiae.

Those changes do make it less complex, but not less about the psychology of the character. The idea that he physically cannot suppress the Hulk regardless of his emotions made the Hulk an ever-present threat to emerge. Which in turn made Banner more of a tortured soul. You may not like the changes but you can see where they were going with them.

The action scene in the desert would be pretty fun if it wasn't sandwiched between 100 minutes of tedium. Sam Elliot gave an interesting performance but I've always thought of Ross as a cliche, firebrand general so I was fine with TIH's take. Connelly was a better Betty than Liv.

 

[PowerPacked]

I'm going to try to drastically ramp down my expectations before seeing the movie, so I'm even more blown away. I'll try to forget everything I already know about the plot, and will only watch the Cap teaser trailer. To dampen my mood, I've recently been hanging out at Nolanfans, though a good part of that is also undone by my visits to Boxoffice.com, because their forum is really not helpful in that regard to their box office predictions for this film, particularly their thread on which will have a bigger opening weekend, Hunger Games or Avengers (and even after Hunger Games massive opening, some are still unsure, which helps me even less). I plan on going through every means necessary to make sure I am entering with lowered expectations.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm going to try to drastically ramp down my expectations before seeing the movie, so I'm even more blown away. I'll try to forget everything I already know about the plot, and will only watch the Cap teaser trailer. To dampen my mood, I've recently been hanging out at Nolanfans, though a good part of that is also undone by my visits to Boxoffice.com, because their forum is really not helpful in that regard to their box office predictions for this film, particularly their thread on which will have a bigger opening weekend, Hunger Games or Avengers (and even after Hunger Games massive opening, some are still unsure, which helps me even less). I plan on going through every means necessary to make sure I am entering with lowered expectations.

You need this as your sig for the next four months.

 

[PowerPacked]

You need this as your sig for the next four months.

Okay, why four months, though? Not sure how TDKR ties into it, if that's what you mean.

 

[PowerPacked]

"250 Character Signature Limit"

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

 

[Chewy]

"250 Character Signature Limit"

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

Take out all the vowels

 

[PowerPacked]

Eat that, 250 character limit.

 

[PowerPacked]

According to my calculations, this thread will be derailed in the next seven minutes.