The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[halo10]

he Avengers have an original story line - Days of Future Past is not of course
an original story -adapted from the Xmen comics but cleverly with some changes,ala Wolverine traveling in time instead of Bishop, Kitty having mind time-traveling powers, and advanced Sentinels instead of Mastermold and Nimrod, and no Senator Kelly assassination.

DOFP was better-paced and character driven than Avengers, (see old/young xavier-magneto and quicksilver) but doesn't
have the speciality of combined popular Marvel superheros of Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk and Thor into one single movie.
not only did we see all these Superhero legends in combined action -but we also saw them go at each other as well.

On top of that was successful Avengers movies that appealed heavily to
average viewers (non-Marvel fan followers) that momentum and high
interest rolled right into the Avengers movie itself.

Avengers actually had a slow moment right before the Hulk exploded
on the aircraft but the Hulk/Thor and Hulk/Loki was a huge lift at end.
i wasn't all that impressed with army fleet the Avengers were battling
from the Tesseract wormhole (maybe if it was something more creepier
and intimidating -like undead zombie army) but the pure action and the way
Loki was " crushed" helped make up for it.

With DOFP, it didn't deliver the emotional wow that Xmen United and Xmen 1st Class, IMO. and had just a couple of other flaws but it still served as
quite a terrific Marvel in itself ( i LOVED the new sentinels!)

but overall,i'd give the edge to Avengers - but by a small margin

 

[PunyGod]

...

 

[scatterax]

Mastermold was not in DOFP and Bishop and Nimrod weren't even created yet.

He's thinking of the cartoon adaption.

 

[Snow Queen]

EDIT: Never mind.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The film version of DoFP is very similar to the comics version aside from it being greatly expanded upon. In the future, Sentinels have wiped out most of the super-powered population (not just mutants in this version) and their allies except for a handful of survivors. As a last resort, Rachel Summers sends Kate Pryde back to the early 1980s (since she is the newest X-Men then and the one less experienced with psychic blocks) to stop Mystique from assassinating Senator Kelly which is the tipping point for the government starting the Sentinel program. All while the remaining X-Men (Magneto, Franklin Richards, Storm, Colossus, and Wolverine) sacrifice themselves to keep Kitty and Rachel alive along enough to change the past.

 

[Flint Marko]

The Avengers by a longshot.
I loved DOFP, and think it was the best X-men movie to date, but the Avengers still takes the cake as my favorite superhero movie of all time for obvious reasons.
To this day I still have yet to sit in a theatre and experience an audience get as into the film as in my showings of the Avengers. Every audience gasped at Coulson's death, laughed at all the right parts, and I have never, in my 22 years on this planet, seen a room full of people laugh as long and as hard as when the Hulk slammed Loki around.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

I wonder how many people voted for DOFP because Avengers was in the lead?

 

[DA_Champion]

I wonder how many people voted for DOFP because Avengers was in the lead?

Why would anybody do that?

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

he Avengers have an original story line - Days of Future Past is not of course

I'm no Avenger expert but I'm fairly certain Loki went up again the Avengers with the Cosmic Cube.

I have never, in my 22 years on this planet, seen a room full of people laugh as long and as hard as when the Hulk slammed Loki around.

Lowest common denominator and pratfall humour tends to do that.

 

[flickchick85]

Lowest common denominator and pratfall humour tends to do that.

It wasn't "lowest common denominator" humor. The Loki/Hulk moment made people laugh because it subverted expectations and took everyone by surprise. Sort of a knowing take-off on the whole "monologuing" idea from The Incredibles. It was also character-based humor since you've got Loki, an egotistical character who's known for his "silver tongue" and matching wits, meeting the Hulk, who's got no time for anything but SMASH, for the first time. It didn't sacrifice character for a cheap laugh, and instead stayed true to how both characters might behave in that situation based on what we already knew of them. You don't have to find it funny, but try not to insult the many who did.

 

[The Endless]

It was a great character moment for Hulk and yea, subverted the "monologing villain" trope. It does what we always think the hero should do when a villain goes into a monologue... just shoot/smash/beat up the bastard mid convo lol.

Avengers is very genre savvy.

 

[jmc]

Whilst that scene was humourous it kinda illustrates a point I've made before that who the villain of the film is isn't important, because he's essentially made the butt of a joke in that instance.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

It wasn't "lowest common denominator" humor. The Loki/Hulk moment made people laugh because it subverted expectations and took everyone by surprise. Sort of a knowing take-off on the whole "monologuing" idea from The Incredibles. It was also character-based humor since you've got Loki, an egotistical character who's known for his "silver tongue" and matching wits, meeting the Hulk, who's got no time for anything but SMASH, for the first time. It didn't sacrifice character for a cheap laugh, and instead stayed true to how both characters might behave in that situation based on what we already knew of them. You don't have to find it funny, but try not to insult the many who did.

I didn't mean to seem insulting. lowest common denominator humour is humour that is done to appeal to as many people as possible.

Hulk smashing Loki is funny to both kids and adults, both men and women. It's simple but effective

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's actuly surprising the vote Is as close as it Is.

As for hulk people laughed when he took Loki like a ragdoll and said "Puny God"

 

[DA_Champion]

It wasn't "lowest common denominator" humor. The Loki/Hulk moment made people laugh because it subverted expectations and took everyone by surprise. Sort of a knowing take-off on the whole "monologuing" idea from The Incredibles. It was also character-based humor since you've got Loki, an egotistical character who's known for his "silver tongue" and matching wits, meeting the Hulk, who's got no time for anything but SMASH, for the first time. It didn't sacrifice character for a cheap laugh, and instead stayed true to how both characters might behave in that situation based on what we already knew of them. You don't have to find it funny, but try not to insult the many who did.

It was a great character moment for Hulk and yea, subverted the "monologing villain" trope. It does what we always think the hero should do when a villain goes into a monologue... just shoot/smash/beat up the bastard mid convo lol.

Avengers is very genre savvy.

It's undoubtedly a funny scene, but implying that it's a remarkably exceptionally funny scenes in the history of cinema as FM did is stretching it, to quote:

I have never, in my 22 years on this planet, seen a room full of people laugh as long and as hard as when the Hulk slammed Loki around

That kind of hyperbole will incentivise responses underwhelmed by the humour.

 

[DA_Champion]

Whilst that scene was humourous it kinda illustrates a point I've made before that who the villain of the film is isn't important, because he's essentially made the butt of a joke in that instance.

I think a lot of people who cherish the movie take offense at suggested failings of the movie under the impression that those are in fact failings. Avengers doesn't have a great villain and doesn't try to -- the story is about the heroes coming together and the villain is simply a plot device. Some fans may be defensive when hearing this pointed out, but it's not actually a "failing" of the movie, it's just what Joss Whedon chose to do, to focus on the heroes and their story.

For those more interested, Season 7 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer tells an extremely similar plot to The Avengers, with a nearly identical climax scene, so Whedon knew what he was doing.

 

[jmc]

It's not a failing of the film at all, it's just what the film is and there's nothing wrong with that. Some take exception to that fact being pointed out you are correct, I for the life of me don't know why.

 

[Lord]

I remember the Season 7 finale of Buffy, i honestly think the final battle was better handled there, the villains didn't seem like flies against the heroes to me, even if they had to be buffed from their previous appearance in the season.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's undoubtedly a funny scene, but implying that it's a remarkably exceptionally funny scenes in the history of cinema as FM did is stretching it, to quote:

That kind of hyperbole will incentivise responses underwhelmed by the humour.

Who are you to tell me that's hyperbole? I shared a personal assessment of my film going experience. I saw the film 3 times in theatres and never once heard hulks "puny god" line afterwards because my entire theatre was cracking up. I don't ever recall a movie having that strong a reaction on audiences in my personal experience, and that's what I said. You're the one bringing up "the history of cinema" or whatever.

 

[DA_Champion]

I remember the Season 7 finale of Buffy, i honestly think the final battle was better handled there, the villains didn't seem like flies against the heroes to me, even if they had to be buffed from their previous appearance in the season.

The similarities are truly vast, they include:
- Loki is somewhat like The First;
- Ends in the destruction of a lot of civilian property;
- Mindless, soulless villains attacking the team of heroes as a mob;
- The circle of heroes expands;
- Black Widow getting control of the magic sceptre plays a similar role to Willow getting control of the magic (axe?) and thus eventually turns the force of battle;
- The villains would still win (theoretically) if Iron Man had not closed the gate or Spike had not had the amulet. Spike and Stark are similar characters, both have 5-letter names that start with an "S" and include a "K" ;-), both are their own worst enemies and their journey thus far had been about overcoming their demons.
- Though in both cases the villains were so weak it was a plothole. The Turok-Han were much weaker than what we saw in mid-season, and the Chittauri, far from being an intergalactic invasion force, they would probably be rounded up by the national guard.

Ultimately though you're right, Buffy had higher stakes. Nobody died in the Avengers -- not even Hawkeye. In the BtVS series finale we saw the deaths of Anya and Spike, which would be equivalent to Hawkeye and Stark dying.

********

Some people have argued that The Avengers is a lot like Serenity but I have a hard time seeing it.

 

[DA_Champion]

Who are you to tell me that's hyperbole? I shared a personal assessment of my film going experience. I saw the film 3 times in theatres and never once heard hulks "puny god" line afterwards because my entire theatre was cracking up. I don't ever recall a movie having that strong a reaction on audiences in my personal experience, and that's what I said. You're the one bringing up "the history of cinema" or whatever.

I took the message to mean that you're suggesting an exceptionally funny scene, and maybe that's not what you meant, maybe you don't mean for an audience reaction to be supporting your argument.

I may be exaggerating due to my pet peeve against the arguments:
- This movie is good because my audience loved it;
- This movie is bad because my audience hated it;
Which are frequently brought up and which I argue to be meaningless due to their being extremely unreliable in addition to the well-recognised rule that anecdotes are unscientific.

You wrote for example that:
"Every audience gasped at Coulson's death,"
Unless the audience is small enough that you know most of the people in attendance, you have absolutely no idea how the majority reacted to that scene. On the other hand, if the audience is small enough that you knew most people, then your assessment is meaningless.

 

[jaymes_e06]

The similarities are truly vast, they include:
- Loki is somewhat like The First;
- Ends in the destruction of a lot of civilian property;
- Mindless, soulless villains attacking the team of heroes as a mob;
- The circle of heroes expands;
- Black Widow getting control of the magic sceptre plays a similar role to Willow getting control of the magic (axe?) and thus eventually turns the force of battle;
- The villains would still win (theoretically) if Iron Man had not closed the gate or Spike had not had the amulet. Spike and Stark are similar characters, both have 5-letter names that start with an "S" and include a "K" ;-), both are their own worst enemies and their journey thus far had been about overcoming their demons.
- Though in both cases the villains were so weak it was a plothole. The Turok-Han were much weaker than what we saw in mid-season, and the Chittauri, far from being an intergalactic invasion force, they would probably be rounded up by the national guard.

Ultimately though you're right, Buffy had higher stakes. Nobody died in the Avengers -- not even Hawkeye. In the BtVS series finale we saw the deaths of Anya and Spike, which would be equivalent to Hawkeye and Stark dying.

********

Some people have argued that The Avengers is a lot like Serenity but I have a hard time seeing it.

They are not similar at all imo. Buffy was much less obvious. It was truly pulse pounding (the final battle that is). Everything was predictible in Avengers save for a few scenes. Even Iron Man saving the day in the end I could tell would happen a mile away.

And Loki like the first? No, just no.

 

[Flint Marko]

I took the message to mean that you're suggesting an exceptionally funny scene, and maybe that's not what you meant, maybe you don't mean for an audience reaction to be supporting your argument.

I may be exaggerating due to my pet peeve against the arguments:
- This movie is good because my audience loved it;
- This movie is bad because my audience hated it;
Which are frequently brought up and which I argue to be meaningless due to their being extremely unreliable in addition to the well-recognised rule that anecdotes are unscientific.

You wrote for example that:
"Every audience gasped at Coulson's death,"
Unless the audience is small enough that you know most of the people in attendance, you have absolutely no idea how the majority reacted to that scene. On the other hand, if the audience is small enough that you knew most people, then your assessment is meaningless.

You really enjoy splitting hairs.
"Every audience (3, all packed theatres) gasped at coulson's death" obviously means I heard audible gasps (multiple), signifying the death clearly landed with people. It doesn't matter the amount in attendance or if it wasn't the majority, I'm making an observation based on what I experienced.
That being said I feel as if I can reasonably say that the majority of the audience laughed wholeheartedly at the hulk/Loki bit. It clearly landed with every theatre I was in.
I'm not sure what the disagreement is, you seem to just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I'm sharing my experience in the theatre and saying it was a memorable one and that the audience I was with seemed to enjoy it as well. Not sure when this became a debate or why you're taking issue with this.

 

[DA_Champion]

They are not similar at all imo. Buffy was much less obvious. It was truly pulse pounding (the final battle that is). Everything was predictible in Avengers save for a few scenes. Even Iron Man saving the day in the end I could tell would happen a mile away.

And Loki like the first? No, just no.

Obviously the quality of Buffy is higher -- everybody agrees that it's Joss Whedon's masterpiece, and he had seven seasons (~100 hours) to build up the characters and our emotional attachment to them.

I meant that the plot mechanics are similar.

As for Loki and the First, the structure of the two are:
The First -- Thanos/Death
Caleb -- Loki
Turok-Han Army -- Chittauri Army

Some responsibilities were shifted at the top levels though so I may have made the wrong comparison originally.

 

[DACrowe]

It wasn't "lowest common denominator" humor. The Loki/Hulk moment made people laugh because it subverted expectations and took everyone by surprise. Sort of a knowing take-off on the whole "monologuing" idea from The Incredibles. It was also character-based humor since you've got Loki, an egotistical character who's known for his "silver tongue" and matching wits, meeting the Hulk, who's got no time for anything but SMASH, for the first time. It didn't sacrifice character for a cheap laugh, and instead stayed true to how both characters might behave in that situation based on what we already knew of them. You don't have to find it funny, but try not to insult the many who did.

It is a classic Joss Whedon moment where he uses well developed character traits and foibles for a broadly comedic scene that isn't really campy, just bizarrely believable in its context.

I guess that I hear people say it is this amazing experience and nothing is better, and I tended to feel like it was a straightforward Joss Whedon story, except this one was very light on plot and tension, something I suspect that he'll rectify in the next one.

People were falling over themselves laughing with it, but I could say the same for Anchorman or The Hangover.

I guess different things, but while I saw a great movie for popcorn joy and fans--very much like Spider-Man 2 in many respects to me--it didn't have that wowing effect as a story. And i know Whedon can do that too.