The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[def28]

Avengers.

Not really close at all for me. Wish I could say different though. Maybe Apocalypse...

 

[DA_Champion]

I just figured Magneto controlled the sentinels by manipulating the metallic rods. Not truly reprogramming.

Nope, they knew how to listen to Magneto's voice, which meant he had reprogrammed them. I just realised that each of MoS, TWS, and DoFP had reprogramming in their climax.

In MoS: Jor-El is a magic USB key that can reprogram the scout ship, Zod's ship, and eventually get Clark's baby carriage to knock out Zod's ship and create a black hole.
In TWS: Agent Fury hands Cap a magic USB key that when inserted into the aircraft carrier will shut down project insight.
In DoFP: Magneto wraps the Sentinels in long steel rods (railroad tracks) which modifies their internal software.

One of these is the most non-sensical.

 

[jmc]

The Avengers is a team of champions, but X-Men DoFP is a champion team. I can enjoy Avengers for what it is, but there's nothing deep about the movie to connect to, it's just a good ride. DoFP on the other hand had an emotional core and journey for all the main characters, it feels like there's something at stake in that movie. That said they are both still different.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I gotta say that watching DOFP was almost an entirely objective viewing for me. I can't recall any serious moment that I was invested in. I laughed at Quicksilver, was mad about the FC mutants being killed off, and enjoyed the action scenes. Now, this is a similar experience I have watching The Avengers, however, The Avengers isn't a character piece like Days of Future Past is. The Avengers is pure fun and doesn't try to be anything else. Days of Future Past goes for a home run on the drama, but for me, the ball drops short of the fence.

Both are good movies, but The Avengers is better at what it is than Days of Future Past is.

 

[Tony Stark]

And Avengers isnt Ironman and friends?

Hawkeye got fairly shortchanged too to be fair.

No it's not. Banner, Rogers, Thor and Loki have far meatier parts than Xavier, McCoy and Magneto did.

 

[Tony Stark]

Strongly disagree. If anything, it's McAvoy and Fassbender who carry the film. Jackman is only a supporting player who arguably is important to the plot. Jennifer Lawrence is also prevalent through much of the movie and has some heavy scenes.

Lawrence was probably the weakest character in DOFP for me. They really could have explored her struggle with following Eric or Charles, instead she's merely reduced to a plot device.

 

[DrCosmic]

They did explore it, she had multiple meaningful emotional exchanges with both Charles and Eric, and it these emotions and them being believable were at the crux of the climax of the film after she'd gone from freedom fighter to betrayed desperate assassin to... someone who could hope. That's not a plot device. Wolverine is actually the plot device. He has no arc, no growth, he is simply there to carry things along, and that's only because of his power and that he's from the future. He has nothing further to add to the film, not even a good fight scene. The only emotions he ever undergoes is getting crippled during a flashback. That's Wolverine's entire arc during DOFP.

What I do think you're referring to is that many of the character arcs in DOFP were very short due to the immense amount of things happening. The arcs went very high, but not very far, so the angles on those arcs were not explored. Mystique had already chosen to follow Magneto back in XFC, so they didn't backtrack over that again. So even though Mystique did go through a process, it pretty much accounts for 10 minutes of a 120 minute movie.

 

[DrCosmic]

Nope, they knew how to listen to Magneto's voice, which meant he had reprogrammed them. I just realised that each of MoS, TWS, and DoFP had reprogramming in their climax.

In MoS: Jor-El is a magic USB key that can reprogram the scout ship, Zod's ship, and eventually get Clark's baby carriage to knock out Zod's ship and create a black hole.
In TWS: Agent Fury hands Cap a magic USB key that when inserted into the aircraft carrier will shut down project insight.
In DoFP: Magneto wraps the Sentinels in long steel rods (railroad tracks) which modifies their internal software.

One of these is the most non-sensical.

So I'm going to defend this, because the film did try to justify it. Magneto studied the plans for the Sentinels in detail. It is not outside the realm of possibility that he could hard wire the sentinels for different commands at that point if he was a skilled engineer... somehow. Still doesn't explain the voice command, unless... it wasn't actually a voice command at all, but one of those 'movie people like to talk to robots for dramatic effect. "Hasta La Vista, Baby."

There are other things like this in the film, ie where did Kitty get this time power from? Does anyone care?

Does Peter Dinklage grow up to look like Bill Duke?

Again, DOFP was awesome and the stakes were outlined much better, but the worst criticism we can level at Avengers is that it 'wasn't very deep' which isn't exactly true when we look at some of the arcs in the film. They just didn't have any Oscar-type "I don't want your futcha!" moments. That's the worst we can say about Avengers, there's no Oscar-level drama in it. Well, except that whole "we're not soldiers" scene.

Jeez, superheroes are so melodramatic. They don't want our future, they're not soldiers. Okay, cool, just do stuff, mmmk?

 

[Tony Stark]

It doesn't matter how much he studied the diagrams, the fact that steel is one of the worst conductors of electricity, especially the alloys used in making train rail.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

No it's not. Banner, Rogers, Thor and Loki have far meatier parts than Xavier, McCoy and Magneto did.

Disagree. Thor is there just for muscle and has slightly more character development than Colossus. Loki just hams it up, no clear motivation for his role other than because he wants to, if you hadn't seen Thor you wouldn't have a clue about his feelings of in adequacy, Banner had conflicting feelings about Shield and that was it, Rogers was pretty much scenery getting ripped on by Stark.
Xavier had the whole arc about accepting his role as leader of Mutantkind and getting off the serum, Beast wasn't much but Magneto had his usual plot to preserve Mutantkind while trying to make them the top of the food chain.

The Avengers is a team of champions, but X-Men DoFP is a champion team. I can enjoy Avengers for what it is, but there's nothing deep about the movie to connect to, it's just a good ride. DoFP on the other hand had an emotional core and journey for all the main characters, it feels like there's something at stake in that movie. That said they are both still different.

Agreed, villain-wise the Sentinels were a real threat, whereas the Chitauri were like insects that could be squashed by powerless humans, they had their strength in.p numbers but weren't much of a challenge fir the power level of the team.

And Avengers isnt Ironman and friends?

It fools you into thinking it's not by giving as much screen time to others but he takes all the main plot points.

DoFP for me (which came as a huge surprise to me). I find that it has a more interesting plot and far more compelling characters than the Avengers.

Avengers was definitely a more "fun" experience the first time I saw it though. The first time we see the entire team assembled is pretty much euphoric. Unfortunately, it doesn't hold up quite as well on repeat viewings. Still a great film though.

Agreed, it had a novelty. If you ignore the hype of the characters being in the same movie it's easy to see through the movie as fairly generic.

I disagree, Avengers was simply much more simple, while X-Men had to deal with correcting a weird timeline, which it did very well.

X-Men is praised a lot because it was able to take such a complex story with time-travel and so on and make it easy to follow and understand.

Seriously? At least we got to page two before reverting to this nonsense.

Exactly

Well I thought First Class was better than The Avengers.

And Days of Future Past was a step above First Class.

Same.

Both are amazing movies and no one can argue that.

DOFP had a darker tone and a ton of emotion, yes. But those people saying Avengers didn't have emotion or drama seem to be forgetting a lot of the movie. Coulson's death, Loki's emotionless attempt to murder Thor, Natasha struggling with Barton's brainwashing, Stark sacrificing himself (surviving, yes) to save the world and never getting to talk to Pepper before. Avengers had drama and emotion. DOFP had more, stronger emotion, but Avengers had some as well.

The only applicable one of those was Coulsons death imo, but that felt forced to get them to stop fighting amongst themselves and unite even though they still couldn't stand each other. Like Frigga's death it felt less genuine and more a ploy to move the plot. It since being negated kinda ruins the impact I think.

 

[Lord]

To tell the truth i actually found myself bored a lot of times in The Avengers, the first sequence is also criticised by many.

 

[JP]

Jeez, superheroes are so melodramatic. They don't want our future, they're not soldiers. Okay, cool, just do stuff, mmmk?

 

[Tony Stark]

Disagree. Thor is there just for muscle and has slightly more character development than Colossus. Loki just hams it up, no clear motivation for his role other than because he wants to, if you hadn't seen Thor you wouldn't have a clue about his feelings of in adequacy, Banner had conflicting feelings about Shield and that was it, Rogers was pretty much scenery getting ripped on by Stark.
Xavier had the whole arc about accepting his role as leader of Mutantkind and getting off the serum, Beast wasn't much but Magneto had his usual plot to preserve Mutantkind while trying to make them the top of the food chain.

OK, I'm open to debate on this stuff, but you aren't even serious when you write something like that. Colussus has ONE word he says in all of DOFP, he says "Mystique".

Thor has a ton of dialogue in the film, his scene with Loki on the mountain top is one of the best in the film. Loki has clear motivations, he as born to be a King, and he is making his own Kingdom.

 

[T"Challa]

Did we just seriously compare Thor's role in Avengers to Colossus? My goodness.

I know we all have our favorites and all but some objectivity would be welcome

 

[Lord]

Did we just seriously compare Thor's role in Avengers to Colossus? My goodness.

I know we all have our favorites and all but some objectivity would be welcome

There are only 2 things that trump objectivity, Nolan and Loki. The second one belongs on the thread, the mention of the first one may get me an infraction on this thread

 

[Tony Stark]

Nolan should direct the next X-men film </runs and hides>.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Did we just seriously compare Thor's role in Avengers to Colossus? My goodness.

I know we all have our favorites and all but some objectivity would be welcome

Thor one of my favourites of the MCU. Outside of his conversation with Loki I don't remember him speaking much. Both he and Colossus were pretty much there for muscle.

OK, I'm open to debate on this stuff, but you aren't even serious when you write something like that. Colussus has ONE word he says in all of DOFP, he says "Mystique".

Thor has a ton of dialogue in the film, his scene with Loki on the mountain top is one of the best in the film. Loki has clear motivations, he as born to be a King, and he is making his own Kingdom.

That was presented in THOR mostly, not so much in Avengers.

 

[T"Challa]

Thor one of my favourites of the MCU. Outside of his conversation with Loki he didn't have much dialogue. Both he and colossus were pretty much there for muscle.

Really, how about the discussion he had with Coulson and Fury on the helicarrier? or his exchange with Loki inside the cell and on Stark Tower? He was very much an integral part of the team in the movie even though he didnt get as much screentime as Cap or IM.

Colussus has said a grand total of one sentence and 2 words in all his appearances. Your argument holds no water man

 

[T"Challa]

That was presented in THOR mostly, not so much in Avengers.

Her said over and over again, thast he feels he was born to be a king. He had visions of grandeur and wanted a kingdom to rule over since he was denied Asgard. He said it on the rooftop and in the Germany scene as well.

 

[The Endless]

"All i remember is standing beneath your shadow" or something to that effect. Loki's motivations were clearly displayed in Avengers.

 

[Human Torch]

I've got to go with Avengers on this one.

 

[Tony Stark]

Thor one of my favourites of the MCU. Outside of his conversation with Loki I don't remember him speaking much. Both he and Colossus were pretty much there for muscle.

Thor had more screen time/dialogue in Avengers than Colossus, Ice Man, Storm, Blink, Warpath, Kitty Pryde, and old Magneto had combined in DOFP.

That was presented in THOR mostly, not so much in Avengers.

OK, I don't have time to go into how wrong that is. If you think DOFP is better that's fine, that's opinion. It's a fact that this was presented in Thor.

For simplicity, just go here and look under the Avenger's section:

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0039559/quotes

 

[The Endless]

There is also a scene where Fury is implying that Thor might need to torture Loki. I also really liked the part where Stark begins to describe Loki's personality... then in a moment of self reflection realises he is describing himself. A cool way to have them figure out where Loki's staging point for the war was. Avengers does have some depth with it's characters. It's just over shadowed by the OMFG THOR VS IRON MAN! AWESOME!

And the plot is just a means to an end. The end is the team forming and getting past their differences. Much less complex than DoFP's, of course.

 

[DrCosmic]

It doesn't matter how much he studied the diagrams, the fact that steel is one of the worst conductors of electricity, especially the alloys used in making train rail.

...and that level of know how hasn't been established anyway, I feel you. I'm just saying, they gave it a shot. It's not impossible just hilariously unlikely.

 

[Rike]

Days of Future Past by miles.