The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[pr0xyt0xin]

The only problem i have with it now is... whenever anyone in the future timeline is in danger... why not just get Kitty to do her thing? It's kind of a cheat really. They are all practically immortal now.

We always know the hero will win and the bad guy will lose. This goes for all films. Not just superhero films. But a good film will engross us and make us feel for the characters anyway. I ask; why should i care for any of the original cast characters now? I also ask, why should i care for the likes of Colossus, Blink and whoever the others are? They are cardboard cut outs.

I don't disagree with you. But I look at it like Ashton Kutcher in The Butterfly Effect. At some point they'll realize that no matter what they go back and fix, you can't stop every bad thing from ever happening.

I imagine Kitty and Wolverine would at some point make the decision that living the same 50 years out over and over isn't the way time was meant to go.

 

[DrCosmic]

The problem with comparing these films is that their value comes almost entirely from context. Without the four previous films and the fifth one we don't talk about, either big team up movie loses the bulk of its appeal. And people tend to be biased toward either set of those films.

Avengers lacks certain things, and has a host of conveniences. DOFP, while more ambitious in terms of scale and drama has actual plot holes and inconsistencies. It's like Avengers is a fine double axle and DOFP is a wobbly triple axle. Which is actually better?

 

[Rock Sexton]

The only problem i have with it now is... whenever anyone in the future timeline is in danger... why not just get Kitty to do her thing? It's kind of a cheat really. They are all practically immortal now.

We always know the hero will win and the bad guy will lose. This goes for all films. Not just superhero films. But a good film will engross us and make us feel for the characters anyway. I ask; why should i care for any of the original cast characters now? I also ask, why should i care for the likes of Colossus, Blink and whoever the others are? They are cardboard cut outs.

You know what, I had never thought about it like that when it comes to Kitty's sudden "convenient" powers of time travel. Good point.

I don't disagree with you. But I look at it like Ashton Kutcher in The Butterfly Effect. At some point they'll realize that no matter what they go back and fix, you can't stop every bad thing from ever happening.

The movie doesn't establish that at all though.

 

[jmc]

The problem with comparing these films is that their value comes almost entirely from context. Without the four previous films and the fifth one we don't talk about, either big team up movie loses the bulk of its appeal. And people tend to be biased toward either set of those films.

Avengers lacks certain things, and has a host of conveniences. DOFP, while more ambitious in terms of scale and drama has actual plot holes and inconsistencies. It's like Avengers is a fine double axle and DOFP is a wobbly triple axle. Which is actually better?

They're also trying to do completely different things. The only thing either film really has in common is the team aspect.

 

[metaphysician]

Who is to say that, in the changed timeline, Kitty ever even learns how to send people back in time? Lacking in a complete dystopian bad end, would she ever have the motivation? Depending on how it happened, would she have the opportunity ( we don't know how she learned to do so, but it might have involved other people )?

 

[LoganGambit87]

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong.

The Line delivery in DoFP took me out of the film several times. Even academy award winner Jennifer Lawrence had some incredibly phoned in moments.

Basically any time someone who wasn't playing Wolverine, Magneto, Xavier or Trask opened their mouth, it took me out of the film. I have nightmares about Daniel Cudmore, in particular.

james mcavoy's performance in DOFP alone was better than anyone in the avengers imo

 

[KangConquers]

james mcavoy's performance in DOFP alone was better than anyone in the avengers imo

Both Magnetos, Both Xaviers and Hugh Jackman were great. But that doesn't make the acting better across the board. It means the main leads do a bang up job, and the supporting characters serve as cardboard cut outs who can barely deliver lines.

I think the Avengers has a higher standard of acting across the board, though admittedly not as high of highs.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If DOFP could could be classified as an emotional symphony then The Avengers was a clashing of symbols by comparison.

 

[KangConquers]

The problem with comparing these films is that their value comes almost entirely from context. Without the four previous films and the fifth one we don't talk about, either big team up movie loses the bulk of its appeal. And people tend to be biased toward either set of those films.

Avengers lacks certain things, and has a host of conveniences. DOFP, while more ambitious in terms of scale and drama has actual plot holes and inconsistencies. It's like Avengers is a fine double axle and DOFP is a wobbly triple axle. Which is actually better?

Avengers is essentially a more polished film, and in my opinion, works slightly better as a stand alone than Days of Future Past.

When I got out of DoFP I was actually a little shocked at how positively critics had reacted. It's a very good movie, sure, but 92%!? I actually think in many ways, it was a step down from both X-2 and First Class. This was definitely a bigger movie than those two, but a better one? I'm not really sure.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I think the Avengers has a higher standard of acting across the board, though admittedly not as high of highs.

The thing is the Avengers wasn't written to play like DOFP did. Said this before, but while DOFP had higher emotional tension, Avengers was written for more wit.

Avengers is essentially a more polished film, and in my opinion, works slightly better as a stand alone than Days of Future Past.

When I got out of DoFP I was actually a little shocked at how positively critics had reacted. It's a very good movie, sure, but 92%!? I actually think in many ways, it was a step down from both X-2 and First Class. This was definitely a bigger movie than those two, but a better one? I'm not really sure.

Ya, I re-watched X2 recently after not having seen it in like 7-8 years and I felt the same you did.

 

[MarvelU]

I think days of future past was better than First Class, but I am still not sure if it tops X2 for me.

 

[DrCosmic]

They're also trying to do completely different things. The only thing either film really has in common is the team aspect.

True, and even then, the team aspect is totally different. In Avengers the team up aspect is the answer, in X-Men, the team up aspect is the background.

Avengers is essentially a more polished film, and in my opinion, works slightly better as a stand alone than Days of Future Past.

When I got out of DoFP I was actually a little shocked at how positively critics had reacted. It's a very good movie, sure, but 92%!? I actually think in many ways, it was a step down from both X-2 and First Class. This was definitely a bigger movie than those two, but a better one? I'm not really sure.

Remember that's not the average rating, that's just the percentage of reviewers that rated it above 60%. The actual average rating is about 7.6/10, which sounds about right. Contrast with Avengers that is also 92% fresh, but with an average score of 8/10.

But I'd agree Avengers is more polished and works better standalone. DOFP was in a place where it needed to top Avengers, and I think that they went about that in a way that was true to their property is wonderful.

 

[Tony Stark]

The main thing about Avengers, is it plays to a wider audience, hence it's wide appeal. You really didn't even need to see any of the other MCU films to enjoy it. DOFP however is much less of a stand alone film. Even the ending is written that you have to understand what happened 10 years ago for any of it to make sense.

 

[lee1983dixon]

I vote for the Avengers. Admittedly, not the biggest X Men fan, but read the comics, watched the animated TV show, seen all the films - it's not just a silly preference. All of my favourite Marvel characters reside outside of the X Men setup, with the exception of Magneto.

For me, DOFP does not come close to FC, as FC is ALL about Magneto. His back story, the emotional struggle between finding someone with whom he shares his 'issues' with (the mutation) but also his friendship with Xavier that develops and exists beyond the final scenes and into DOFP. For me FC set the bar very high in the mutant world, as it provided the origins to the X Men films we already adored.

Anyway, I digress. Although DOFP was enjoyable, particularly the 'old and new' characters and all that nostalgia, I think at the end of the film it was overdone greatly. I mean, stopping Mystique killing Trask should have stopped the 'Future Sentinels' from being made, but how on earth did it undo X Men 2? Magneto was still on the loose, and yes Mystique had the change of heart but still... I really disliked that element of it all, was a bit cringeworthy to me. 'Happily ever after'

I enjoyed the film for what it was, action packed and an inspired and risky storyline to take on. They pulled off the future/past elements well, it was easy to follow and understand what was happening in the main for anyone not familiar, and lets face it everyone at least likes Wolverine, so having him there throughout was always going to be a winner.

For me though, it's Avengers all day. Nothing tops the feeling at the end of the film when the Avengers are truly brought together, and yes it may have been comedic at times; there was in-fighting; an egotistical villain that actually thought he could take on a super-team containing a god, a super soldier, a genius and... a Hulk; and yes as a stand-alone film there wasn't a great deal of back story or origin to things, but remember, the MCU wasn't just based on the Avengers film, all that went before it contained the origins, set the scenes, created the platforms and are what contributed to making this movie truly great. You cannot ignore that, as I see some people are doing on here ("what is Loki's motiviation, it's not clear...")

I enjoyed DOFP very much, went to see it twice in a week, but I can literally watch Avengers every day and never lose that feeling of euphoria when the Avengers are truly formed and the future is being created.

Not enough Magneto (never enough Magneto!) vs. all of my favourite Avengers. Sorry Mr Singer, you fall a bit short, but not far short...

Side note, Ruffalo as Banner, and where that can go after two (IMO) awful Hulk films, surely that alone is noteworthy?

Side side note, DOFP post-credits scene: not as good as Avengers, but the most excited i've been since Avengers. Says a lot.

 

[Dogdor]

I voted Avengers. I think that bringing super heroes together from four different franchises,(for lack of a better term) and making it as cohesive is it was, was pretty incredible. That being said, I think DoFP is a great movie and hopefully will lead to many more quality X-Men movies. But, overall, I don't think it's really all that close. Avengers is head and shoulders better IMO. I think the action and wit is much better in Avengers than in DoFP. Also, I have read through most of the posts here and everyone seems to think that the DoFP story is so complex, but hasn't the we need to go back in time to fix something story been done like 20 times...? Terminator, Back to the Future, Star Trek IV, Austin Powers, The Final Countdown, Timecop, Star Trek: First Contact, Superman and that's just off the top of my head. Can't the whole story summed up pretty quickly? The future sucks, lets go back in the past to change it. Now, don't get me wrong, I liked the movie a lot, and I am not trying to say that the Avengers is more complex or anything like that, I'm just wondering why people think DoFP is so complex. However, I agree with pretty much everyone on here that DoFP has more emotional elements to it, the only emotion I really felt during the Avengers was just pure excitement.

Bottom line, I think both movies are really good and I like the stories equally in both, but I think that Avengers is more entertaining due to the action and wit being better.

 

[SuperT]

Also, I have read through most of the posts here and everyone seems to think that the DoFP story is so complex, but hasn't the we need to go back in time to fix something story been done like 20 times...? Terminator, Back to the Future, Star Trek IV, Austin Powers, The Final Countdown, Timecop, Star Trek: First Contact, Superman and that's just off the top of my head. Can't the whole story summed up pretty quickly? The future sucks, lets go back in the past to change it. Now, don't get me wrong, I liked the movie a lot, and I am not trying to say that the Avengers is more complex or anything like that, I'm just wondering why people think DoFP is so complex. However, I agree with pretty much everyone on here that DoFP has more emotional elements to it, the only emotion I really felt during the Avengers was just pure excitement.

I don't think people are saying the storyline itself is complex, it's actually pretty straight forward. I think the way they illustrated and told that storyline is what makes it complex.

The interactions between Xavier, Magneto, Mystique and Beast are most certainly very complex with how everything plays out. At least, I think it's handled with a little bit more depth and complexity than anything in The Avengers.

 

[The Endless]

I tend to separate the terms "plot" and "story".

Plot is usually always simple. In any film.

The story is how they get there, the details that make up the plot.

 

[SuperT]

I tend to separate the terms "plot" and "story".

Plot is usually always simple. In any film.

The story is how they get there, the details that make up the plot.

That's a very good way to look at it.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I tend to separate the terms "plot" and "story".

Plot is usually always simple. In any film.

The story is how they get there, the details that make up the plot.

Same. For me story is the how's and whys and the motivations behind the characters doing what they are doing and the plot is how the story is presented in pacing from A to B.

The main thing about Avengers, is it plays to a wider audience, hence it's wide appeal. You really didn't even need to see any of the other MCU films to enjoy it. DOFP however is much less of a stand alone film. Even the ending is written that you have to understand what happened 10 years ago for any of it to make sense.

Disagree. Their is hardly any detail to the characters motivations in Avengers. All of that, well most of that is to be found in the solo movies, without that detail audiences wouldn't know why Loki wants to rule, why Captain America joined Shield ect... Those things weren't explained well in the actual movie, you needed to have seen the others to know the motivations of those characters.

 

[The Endless]

Huh? Yea they do.

Cap joins SHIELD because it's his doorway into this new world. Cap feels comfortable and at home when he has a purpose. SHIELD gives him that purpose. His exchange with Fury at the start of the film is a pretty clear indication of how he feels.

Stark joins the team because underneath that snarky *****y facade he wants to do the right thing. Cap's taunting of him gets his back up and motivates him to prove Rogers wrong. And Coulson's death clearly effects him more than anyone else.

Loki wants to rule Earth because he genuinely believes it's his right to. He believes he has the right to a throne. He can't have it on Asgard so he wants one on Earth. He sees himself above mankind and wishes to be a "benevolent ruler".

The army is at his beck and call because Thanos wants the Tesseract. He bargains with Loki, giving him some of his forces to help take over Earth... whilst in return Loki gives him the Tesseract.

This is all pretty clear in the story of Avengers. Did you even watch it? It's not as though any of that stuff is ambiguous or merely implied. It's all spelt out pretty obviously.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Perhaps it warrants a rewatch.

 

[JP]

I look forward to the day I can watch both back to back in the comfort of my bed.

 

[The Hatchling]

Between the two movies, I find myself favoring the Avengers over Days of Future Past because, even though Days had a better plot, I felt more attached to the Avengers. I'll admit that the Marvel Studios movie buildup was the key into making the avengers work as a movie and that without that genius marketing move it would be a totally different story. Also, I feel weary with the X-man cinematic universe in general and it's common tropes.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Huh? Yea they do.

Cap joins SHIELD because it's his doorway into this new world. Cap feels comfortable and at home when he has a purpose. SHIELD gives him that purpose. His exchange with Fury at the start of the film is a pretty clear indication of how he feels.

Stark joins the team because underneath that snarky *****y facade he wants to do the right thing. Cap's taunting of him gets his back up and motivates him to prove Rogers wrong. And Coulson's death clearly effects him more than anyone else.

Loki wants to rule Earth because he genuinely believes it's his right to. He believes he has the right to a throne. He can't have it on Asgard so he wants one on Earth. He sees himself above mankind and wishes to be a "benevolent ruler".

The army is at his beck and call because Thanos wants the Tesseract. He bargains with Loki, giving him some of his forces to help take over Earth... whilst in return Loki gives him the Tesseract.

This is all pretty clear in the story of Avengers. Did you even watch it? It's not as though any of that stuff is ambiguous or merely implied. It's all spelt out pretty obviously.

Stark's motivation's actually evolve quite a bit throughout the movie. Initially he was merely placating Pepper by taking a look at the briefing Coulson brought him, but it was clear he was annoyed given his prior psych evaluation by SHIELD of being self-absorbed and not a team player. The moment he saw the cube in that hologram he was hooked. It wasn't spoken, but you could see it and I would assume because of some kind of familiarity ..... whether because it was in his father's files or because of the energy signature of his arc reactor.

Then his motivations waffle between helping SHIELD and at the same time infiltrating them to figure out what they've really been up to. He goes on to have his run in with Cap, who calls to question Stark's internal motivations ...... which then leads to his grand gesture of self-sacrifice as he re-directs the missile to the Chitauri docking station.

 

[Steamteck]

Avengers by a mile. I left Avengers wanting to see it again right now. DOFP I don't even think I'll get on DVD. I just couldn't get into the characters and the future action , while technically well done, had little impact for me because the lack of development of the combatants.

usually when someone complains about the pacing of a film, I have clue what they are talking about but I had pacing problems with this film.

Actually kind if disappointing after so many good reviews. My daughter was spot on when I asked her ho it was. I guess she thinks like me