The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[fire117]

Avengers but both movies were very good.

 

[catherinedsouza]

both these are nice movies but i like avengers more than x-men days of future past

 

[highbloodman]

One thing I thought about when watching DOFP, was that the story would probably not consider the Avengers being in it. Perhaps Tony Stark or someone else would have found a way to beat the Sentinels, as they are non-mutant. So DOFP, even in the comics, would have disregarded other heroes in the Marvel universe... or just made the sentinels too powerful as robots to have conquered everybody else.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's awesome seeing both the Avengers and X-men at the top of their games and getting lots of love! It's a good time to be a comic book fan.

I voted X-men because I thought the character arcs were more interesting and better acted. I'm also a ridiculously biased X-men fan.

 

[Visualiza]

It's awesome seeing both the Avengers and X-men at the top of their games and getting lots of love! It's a good time to be a comic book fan.

I voted X-men because I thought the character arcs were more interesting and better acted. I'm also a ridiculously biased X-men fan.

Amen. You're a lot more honest than the rest of us, that's for sure. Way too much bickering going on in here and not nearly enough celebrating.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It's awesome seeing both the Avengers and X-men at the top of their games and getting lots of love! It's a good time to be a comic book fan.

Sure is.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

One thing I thought about when watching DOFP, was that the story would probably not consider the Avengers being in it. Perhaps Tony Stark or someone else would have found a way to beat the Sentinels, as they are non-mutant. So DOFP, even in the comics, would have disregarded other heroes in the Marvel universe... or just made the sentinels too powerful as robots to have conquered everybody else.

It was the latter in the comics. The Sentinels targeted every super-powered individual. The only ones left at the start of the story were Kitty Pryde, Storm, Wolverine, Rachel Summers, Colossus, Magneto, and Franklin Richards.

 

[Legion]

They even said in the film that the humans who tried to help the mutants were also targeted. As well as those that might have mutant offspring.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

It's awesome seeing both the Avengers and X-men at the top of their games and getting lots of love! It's a good time to be a comic book fan.

I voted X-men because I thought the character arcs were more interesting and better acted. I'm also a ridiculously biased X-men fan.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

Days of Future Past outdoes Avengers in it's first five minutes. The scenes of the mutants battling the Sentinels are just as cool, spectacular and fan-pleasing as anything in Avengers, but they are also desperate and ominous - we really believe the good guys are fighting for their lives. In The Avengers, there really is no doubt who is going to win the day. As much fun as it is watching Downey and co take out hordes of aliens for half and hour, there's no real sense of danger.

 

[Raiden]

Days of Future Past outdoes Avengers in it's first five minutes. The scenes of the mutants battling the Sentinels are just as cool, spectacular and fan-pleasing as anything in Avengers, but they are also desperate and ominous - we really believe the good guys are fighting for their lives. In The Avengers, there really is no doubt who is going to win the day. As much fun as it is watching Downey and co take out hordes of aliens for half and hour, there's no real sense of danger.

The problem I have with the scenes of X-Men fighting a helpless battle against the futuristic Sentinels is that we knew with Kitty's power of sending another X-Men's conscious back in time, they can recon their deaths if the mission is successful, so once that is established I didn't really feel their lives were ever threatened. And I knew Wolverine's mission to stop Mystique from killing Trask will be accomplished, so even when the X-Men in the future were dying left and right, there wasn't any doubt what the outcome will be. DOFP is a great movie, but its battles were never ominous or in doubt.

 

[Lord]

Kitty's powers still took a while, which is why they needed to buy enough time.

 

[The Endless]

Days of Future Past outdoes Avengers in it's first five minutes. The scenes of the mutants battling the Sentinels are just as cool, spectacular and fan-pleasing as anything in Avengers, but they are also desperate and ominous - we really believe the good guys are fighting for their lives. In The Avengers, there really is no doubt who is going to win the day. As much fun as it is watching Downey and co take out hordes of aliens for half and hour, there's no real sense of danger.

I disagree.

The Sentinels were clearly more of a threat than the Chitauri for sure.

But who gives a **** about those X-Men in the future sequences? All of them are just cardboard cut outs with super powers. And with the time travel retcon element, they are never in any real danger. Whilst some of their deaths at the end were brutal... i just didn't care. I don't care about Storm, i don't care about Warpath, i don't care about Blink... why should i? They have about 10 lines of dialogue between all of them. The film makers assume i'm going to care about these character just because they are apparently good guys? No, that isn't how it works.

In the Avengers the characters are fully realised. They ain't just cardboard cut outs defined by their powers (which is the very definition of a poor character). And towards the end of the battle we are shown the Avengers getting overwhelmed, even Hulk.

Plus that minute long tracking shot showing the Avengers fighting together, culminating with Hulk punching Thor in Grand Central station is still the pinnacle of superhero "team up" action for me.

So overall, neither film has that much tension really. DoFP because i couldn't care less if these cardboard cut outs live or die. Avengers because the Chitauri aren't that much of a threat. But at least with Avengers there is characters you can root for with motivations and personalities you can understand. And they are actually shown doing things other than saving their own skin.

 

[DA_Champion]

I disagree.

The Sentinels were clearly more of a threat than the Chitauri for sure.

But who gives a **** about those X-Men in the future sequences? All of them are just cardboard cut outs with super powers. And with the time travel retcon element, they are never in any real danger. Whilst some of their deaths at the end were brutal... i just didn't care. I don't care about Storm, i don't care about Warpath, i don't care about Blink... why should i? They have about 10 lines of dialogue between all of them.

In the Avengers the characters are fully realised. They ain't just cardboard cut outs defined by their powers (which is the very definition of a poor character). And towards the end of the battle we are shown the Avengers getting overwhelmed, even Hulk.

Plus that minute long tracking shot showing the Avengers fighting together, culminating with Hulk punching Thor in Grand Central station is still the pinnacle of superhero "team up" action for me.

Can you name any CBM characters that were less of a threat than the Chittauri?

I agree that Avengers had better character work though -- it actually had character work.

 

[The Endless]

lol well every single goon in Nolan's Batman movies?

But yea, the Chitauri are really weak. I can see how they were used though. Basically as a means to an end. The Avengers was all about these people coming together. And whilst the Chitauri as individuals were really weak, the film effectively showed that if the Avengers didn't shut the portal, they'd eventually be defeated simply by the Chitauri having overwhelming numbers.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

The problem I have with the scenes of X-Men fighting a helpless battle against the futuristic Sentinels is that we knew with Kitty's power of sending another X-Men's conscious back in time, they can recon their deaths if the mission is successful, so once that is established I didn't really feel their lives were ever threatened. And I knew Wolverine's mission to stop Mystique from killing Trask will be accomplished, so even when the X-Men in the future were dying left and right, there wasn't any doubt what the outcome will be. DOFP is a great movie, but its battles were never ominous or in doubt.

But we know the heroes are going to win anyway. We knew that going in, we knew that when the movie was announced. The point is, in DoFP, the mutants in the future win by the very skin of their teeth, and that's what makes it exciting. Whereas in Avengers (much as I enjoy it) there's no real sense of impending doom.

 

[The Endless]

Avengers also has the World Security Council willing to nuke NYC to stop the invasion. They're willing to lose Manhattan to save the world. Which leads to a great character moment for Stark, who is willing to sacrifice himself, going against what Rogers said about him aboard the Helicarrier.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

lol well every single goon in Nolan's Batman movies?

But yea, the Chitauri are really weak. I can see how they were used though. Basically as a means to an end. The Avengers was all about these people coming together. And whilst the Chitauri as individuals were really weak, the film effectively showed that if the Avengers didn't shut the portal, they'd eventually be defeated simply by the Chitauri having overwhelming numbers.

Agreed.

Whedon needed to emphasize more the fact that the Avengers were getting exhausted, and there were way more Chitauri to come. They were about to get overwhelmed (he sort of did this with the Hulk, but it's more like the Chitauri already through the portal just teamed up on the Hulk). The climax would have been far more exciting if the Avengers were about to capitulate due to shear numbers, more Chitauri were about to arrive, and New York is about to get nuked.

 

[The Endless]

Yea i can agree with that. I also didn't like the way Selvig conveniently remembered he put a fail safe on the portal and told Widow. That was the weakest aspect of Avengers climax for me.

 

[DA_Champion]

Agreed.

Whedon needed to emphasize more the fact that the Avengers were getting exhausted, and there were way more Chitauri to come. They were about to get overwhelmed (he sort of did this with the Hulk, but it's more like the Chitauri already through the portal just teamed up on the Hulk). The climax would have been far more exciting if the Avengers were about to capitulate due to shear numbers, more Chitauri were about to arrive, and New York is about to get nuked.

It's at least the third time that Whedon has used this climax.

In the Buffy series finale, a dozen slayers beat up thousands of super-vampires, even though previously it was shown that a turok-han was a match for a slayer 1 on 1.

In Serenity, we see thousands of reavers come through on their ships.

He likes that climax. In any case, the presentation in the avengers is the least clever of the three.

 

[KangConquers]

I disagree.

The Sentinels were clearly more of a threat than the Chitauri for sure.

But who gives a **** about those X-Men in the future sequences? All of them are just cardboard cut outs with super powers. And with the time travel retcon element, they are never in any real danger. Whilst some of their deaths at the end were brutal... i just didn't care. I don't care about Storm, i don't care about Warpath, i don't care about Blink... why should i? They have about 10 lines of dialogue between all of them. The film makers assume i'm going to care about these character just because they are apparently good guys? No, that isn't how it works.

In the Avengers the characters are fully realised. They ain't just cardboard cut outs defined by their powers (which is the very definition of a poor character). And towards the end of the battle we are shown the Avengers getting overwhelmed, even Hulk.

Plus that minute long tracking shot showing the Avengers fighting together, culminating with Hulk punching Thor in Grand Central station is still the pinnacle of superhero "team up" action for me.

So overall, neither film has that much tension really. DoFP because i couldn't care less if these cardboard cut outs live or die. Avengers because the Chitauri aren't that much of a threat. But at least with Avengers there is characters you can root for with motivations and personalities you can understand. And they are actually shown doing things other than saving their own skin.

I agree with all of this. Having a bunch of cyphers crying, and talking about how hopeless their future is, isn't captivating drama.

I care more about the waitress in Avengers than Warpath.

 

[The Batman]

Agreed.

Whedon needed to emphasize more the fact that the Avengers were getting exhausted, and there were way more Chitauri to come.

[YT]p1Hp7gPo3To[/YT]

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* On the matter of "Chitauri vs Sentinels". . . I'm torn. I mean, obviously, the Sentinels were portrayed as a bigger "threat", since the only opposition to them was right there, versus a whole unconquered world. Its more that, in terms of actual power level. . . I have a hard time pegging how strong the future sentinels actually were, because whether I go high or low, I end up with weird implications. Most of said implications result from Warpath and Iceman both seeming to be brickier than Colossus.

The best I can manage, as far as consistency goes, is that the future sentinels were each as powerful as a midrange Starktech armor, with adaptability, and Colossus just generally sucks. Which I hate to say, because I like Colossus, and don't want him to be the expendable pud of the X-Men.

 

[Raiden]

But we know the heroes are going to win anyway. We knew that going in, we knew that when the movie was announced. The point is, in DoFP, the mutants in the future win by the very skin of their teeth, and that's what makes it exciting. Whereas in Avengers (much as I enjoy it) there's no real sense of impending doom.

But like Endless said, in Avengers you do care about the heroes since they have been in development over several movies, and in some cases have their own movie leading up to TA. Therefore, no matter what you feel a sense of attachment to the Avengers and you want them to win and survive. In DOFP, we were given a bunch of cardboard figures with super powers, and even though their fate seemed dire, I didn't really feel invested in the lives of Warpath, Bishop, Sunspot, and even Colossus, especially when I knew that their deaths can be reconned. At least in TA, they didn't have a convenient way to retract their deaths if they failed.

 

[Snow Queen]

But like Endless said, in Avengers you do care about the heroes since they have been in development over several movies, and in some cases have their own movie leading up to TA. Therefore, no matter what you feel a sense of attachment to the Avengers and you want them to win and survive. In DOFP, we were given a bunch of cardboard figures with super powers, and even though their fate seemed dire, I didn't really feel invested in the lives of Warpath, Bishop, Sunspot, and even Colossus, especially when I knew that their deaths can be reconned. At least in TA, they didn't have a convenient way to retract their deaths if they failed.

Honestly, I didn't. I really didn't care about most of them in The Avengers.