The Dark Knight Rises The Avengers will be direct competition in 2011

[Naked Shia]

This is the correct mentality to have.

I find it hilarious that people view Avengers as a brainless action movie without seeing it. And that it is somehow a lesser movie because it's more about escapism, superhero mythology and fantasy rather than deadly serious, relatable to the real world and has social commentaries.

Neither approach is inherently good or bad, it's all about the execution.

For example, TDKR will obviously have strong commentaries on the economic crisis etc. Does that somehow make it a better or more credible film than the Avengers which is going for a more escapist, fantasy tone?

The answer is no. As it comes down to execution.

I also find it laughable when people don't understand what depth means in terms of movies.

A movie doesn't have to have these political/social themes or commentaries to be deep or intelligent. A movie isn't automatically deep or intelligent because it has those things.

A movie can be deep and intelligent in the way it uses characters and developes them. Or it can have more universal themes like the family dynamic in Thor or the idea that it's a person's heart, not the size of their muscles, that makes a hero like in Captain America. Or in the case of Avengers, this group of mis-matched people getting past their differences with each other and in Steve Roger's case, being a man out of time, to save the world.

If done well, the story of Steve Rogers, living legend of WWII long thought dead, being brought into the 21st century, to discover the women he loved and all his brothers in arms are dead, and also that he is needed to lead a team of an eccentric scientist who turns into a rage monster, a narcissistic playboy and a ****ing god, against an invading force of aliens led by said gods brother, can be just as compelling and "deep" as any story about Batman.

I'm glad we can have both dark super heroes movies like Batman Begins, TDK or TKR, and fun movies, which are not meant to be taken seriously. That way, everybody can find what they want. I certainly don't want every super heroes movie to be like the dark knight, it would be sad.

I have to admit I wasn't really interested by the avengers trailers though. But I still hope the movie will be a lot of fun!

But this kind of competition is interesting. It allows creative teams to surpass themselves, because they want to make the better movie. and that's good for us

 

[The Morningstar]

Well i don't think it's not wanting to be taken seriously. Any film worth a **** should want to be taken seriously. Depends what it wants to be taken seriously at though.

A fun, action blockbuster still needs to have a well written story, still needs imaginative, well shot action scenes. Still needs characters the audience can invest in, otherwise the action becomes redundant because there is no tension.

It's the difference between films like Transformers and The Incredibles. Hopefully, Avengers is more similar to The Incredibles, which i view as the best superhero movie ever made, than Transformers.

 

[Naked Shia]

Well i don't think it's not wanting to be taken seriously. Any film worth a **** should want to be taken seriously. Depends what it wants to be taken seriously at though.

A fun, action blockbuster still needs to have a well written story, still needs imaginative, well shot action scenes. Still needs characters the audience can invest in, otherwise the action becomes redundant because there is no tension.

It's the difference between films like Transformers and The Incredibles. Hopefully, Avengers is more similar to The Incredibles, which i view as the best superhero movie ever made, than Transformers.

I agree with you. when I said "not mean to be taken seriously", I should have said "not meant to be taken too seriously, or to be too grounded".

and in that regard, I really hope we'll be able to relate to the characters in avengers.

 

[The Morningstar]

Same. Glad we agree

 

[weezerspider]

Well i don't think it's not wanting to be taken seriously. Any film worth a **** should want to be taken seriously. Depends what it wants to be taken seriously at though.

A fun, action blockbuster still needs to have a well written story, still needs imaginative, well shot action scenes. Still needs characters the audience can invest in, otherwise the action becomes redundant because there is no tension.

It's the difference between films like Transformers and The Incredibles. Hopefully, Avengers is more similar to The Incredibles, which i view as the best superhero movie ever made, than Transformers.

This^ The Dark Knight is the best superhero film IMO, not because its grounded in reality, but simply because I feel it has the blend of story, creative shots, special effects, acting and action. Its funny everyone talks **** about Nolan's action scenes, but both chase scenes are 20 times cooler than any action scene from Thor, Cap or Iron Man. The Dark Knight is just a better overall film than any other superhero film, IMO. I'm a little biased because Batman is my favorite hero and Joker my favorite villain, but its certainly not the "realism" that makes these film better. IMO, the more "fun" superhero film Spiderman 2 is better than Batman Begins. Again, because I just feel its a better film. It has little or nothing to do with Marvel's direction vs Nolan's direction.

 

[El Payaso]

This is the correct mentality to have.

I find it hilarious that people view Avengers as a brainless action movie without seeing it. And that it is somehow a lesser movie because it's more about escapism, superhero mythology and fantasy rather than deadly serious, relatable to the real world and has social commentaries.

Neither approach is inherently good or bad, it's all about the execution.

For example, TDKR will obviously have strong commentaries on the economic crisis etc. Does that somehow make it a better or more credible film than the Avengers which is going for a more escapist, fantasy tone?

The answer is no. As it comes down to execution.

I also find it laughable when people don't understand what depth means in terms of movies.

A movie doesn't have to have these political/social themes or commentaries to be deep or intelligent. A movie isn't automatically deep or intelligent because it has those things.

A movie can be deep and intelligent in the way it uses characters and developes them. Or it can have more universal themes like the family dynamic in Thor or the idea that it's a person's heart, not the size of their muscles, that makes a hero like in Captain America. Or in the case of Avengers, this group of mis-matched people getting past their differences with each other and in Steve Roger's case, being a man out of time, to save the world.

If done well, the story of Steve Rogers, living legend of WWII long thought dead, being brought into the 21st century, to discover the women he loved and all his brothers in arms are dead, and also that he is needed to lead a team of an eccentric scientist who turns into a rage monster, a narcissistic playboy and a ****ing god, against an invading force of aliens led by said gods brother, can be just as compelling and "deep" as any story about Batman.

I am one of those who thiunks Avengers won't be anything special other than a rather big amount of BOOM and cool fireworks.

But, as you say, it's not a matter of being "deep" or "serious" since movies like Iron Man or Spider-man 2 for me were all fun and very good movies. My problems with Avengers is that most of Marvel movies are about cool action, decent performances, average dialogues, crappy love stories and horrible humour. And I don't see anyuthing in Avengers that can be something different or anything that make me think that Marvel will have in Avengers a different approach (which has been successful in financial terms for them).

 

[Crimson King]

I am one of those who thiunks Avengers won't be anything special other than a rather big amount of BOOM and cool fireworks.

What are you basing that on? The trailer? There's nothing in Whedon's past to suggest this, and he wrote the movie.

That's like me watching the TDKR trailer and dismissing it as a movie with nothing but earthquakes and mob fights.

 

[The Morningstar]

I am one of those who thiunks Avengers won't be anything special other than a rather big amount of BOOM and cool fireworks.

But, as you say, it's not a matter of being "deep" or "serious" since movies like Iron Man or Spider-man 2 for me were all fun and very good movies. My problems with Avengers is that most of Marvel movies are about cool action, decent performances, average dialogues, crappy love stories and horrible humour. And I don't see anyuthing in Avengers that can be something different or anything that make me think that Marvel will have in Avengers a different approach (which has been successful in financial terms for them).

What are you basing that on? The trailer? There's nothing in Whedon's past to suggest this, and he wrote the movie.

That's like me watching the TDKR trailer and dismissing it as a movie with nothing but earthquakes and mob fights.

I agree with kingmatte here. The Avengers trailer clearly is character driven. It opens with little character pieces for the four leads. Cap in the gym, jaded and seems unhappy. Banner in some shack in the middle of nowhere hiding out. Thor talking with SHIELD, obviously about his brother. Tony Stark in his flash skyscraper penthouse being snarky about not being good enough for the team.

All indications point to it being more character focused that your Transformers films and other big, loud action spectaculars. And Joss Whedon, who i doubted for this project initially because i didn't know if he could do the scope and visuals required, is great at characterisation.

Pretty much all of Marvels movies have been about the characters more than anything. Thor's best parts were the character moments between the brothers and their father. Cap's best moments were in the first hour or so, establishing who Steve Rogers is as a person. And i thought the romance, if you can call it that, in Cap's movie was very well done.

If there is one thing Marvel's movies have over Nolan's Bat movies, it's charm, emotion and for the most part, the romances are well done even if they are underdeveloped in writing, because there is genuine chemistry between the actors. Bale had zero chemistry with both versions of Rachel Dawes. Same as Eckhart.

 

[Ant-LOX]

Marvel > DC.

That's all you had to say, really.

I'm giving money to both companies, I like to be entertained.

 

[The Morningstar]

What... did you just get that i'm a Marvel fanboy out of that? lol how? Are you saying my claim that Marvel's movies have more heart and the romances are better because the actors actually have chemistry is unfounded and indicates i'm a Marvel fanboy?

I don't choose companies, because that's stupid. They don't give a **** about us, only our money. And at the moment, Marvel's output in terms of comics doesn't warrant my money. If you include Vertigo I think i'd say i was closer to being a DC fanboy really. I mean just look at my user name, i'm not some devil worshipper! It's Mike Carey's Lucifer series which is one of the best comics ever made.

 

[Crimson King]

I'm more of a character fan than a company fan.

 

[RedSkull]

What is the point of cheering for another CBM to fail? All it does is hurt the chances of other CBMs being made.

Yeah. Exactly. I wish Dark Knight Rises was the last one ever made. Sadly there's already some coming after it scheduled.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I'm more of a character fan than a company fan.

I'm more of a company man. Don't you love that sexy non-face and non-body? And dat non-ass? Detective Comics Comics, how I want to screw thee! Marvel is a butter face.

 

[lordofthenerds]

I'm more of a company man. Don't you love that sexy non-face and non-body? And dat non-ass? Detective Comics Comics, how I want to screw thee! Marvel is a butter face.

I'm more of a corporation guy. WB > Disney.

 

[Oneironaut]

TDKR's chinese gross alone gonna beat the Avengers entire overseas box office.

 

[Micromind]

I have no doubt that I will like TDKR more than Avengers.

I am looking forward to Avengers but I am disappointed with some of the stuff I hear about it, like - the final battle taking place only in NY and many heroes like Cap. and Thor and Hulk fighting on only one street, it is looking underwhelming battle.

 

[Ken-Kaniff]

It doesnt matter WHEN it is released, I think it will own Avengers anyway!

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Marvel Executive: "Critics are gonna dump this in the springs."

WB Executive: "Really?"

Marvel Executive: "Mm-hm"

WB Executive: "But it's a movie."

Marvel Executive: "A war movie. This is peace time."

 

[Crimson King]

I have no doubt that I will like TDKR more than Avengers.

I am looking forward to Avengers but I am disappointed with some of the stuff I hear about it, like - the final battle taking place only in NY and many heroes like Cap. and Thor and Hulk fighting on only one street, it is looking underwhelming battle.

You should read Whedon's latest interview. It doesn't sound like it's going to be underwhelming at all.

 

[SpideyFan866]

The Avengers is definitely not direct competition. Competition, but not DIRECT competition.

The only CBM that's direct competition (with competition used relatively loosely) is The Amazing Spider-Man.

The Avengers comes out nearly 3 months ahead of The Dark Knight Rises (literally a few days shy) and it will have ended its run in theaters by then.

The Amazing Spider-Man will release within the same month as TDKR and is doing so a little less than 3 weeks before.

TASM is direct competition, not The Avengers.

 

[Micromind]

It is not looking as good as I thought it would be before we got some of the scene details, it is still on my list to watch movie but I have lowered my expectations.

The scale of the movie is not exactly what I expected.

 

[Micromind]

That is correct, Avengers is Not in direct competition to TDKR.

 

[SpideyFan866]

It is not looking as good as I thought it would be before we got some of the scene details, it is still on my list to watch movie but I have lowered my expectations.

The scale of the movie is not exactly what I expected.

It's what I thought it was gonna be. The Avengers is gonna be the popcorn CBM of the summer while TASM, and espcially TDKR, will be focusing on storytelling perhaps more than action.

 

[kvz5]

TDKR's chinese gross alone gonna beat the Avengers entire overseas box office.

Assuming it'll be even released there which isn't a guarantee.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Assuming it'll be even released there which isn't a guarantee.

Even if it was released there, it might not fare well against TASM considering Spider-Man is undoubtedly the most popular cbm character in the Asian market, especially China.

It also doesn't help that one of India's most popular actors is in TASM.