BvS The Batman v Superman Positivity Thread! [SPOILERS]

[OutOfBoose]

Here's my (mostly positive) review:

Just saw the movie. A few things:

1 - The critics are right. There are some flaws in the film. The most notable is the editing and pacing. You can tell that the 3 hr version is going to be the full story. The film definitely feels trimmed. However, while this is bad enough to be noticeable in places, it was not bad enough to detract from the film for me.

2 - The acting performances and the themes of the film are powerful and well executed. I had long conversations about the film with my father after we saw it together. Its not a generic summer blockbuster - there's a lot here that's meaningful.

3 - BvS is a better story than MOS, but MOS was perhaps better executed.

4 - This is not like "Watchmen." Don't listen to that critique. The film is dark, but not that dark. I'd say its about as dark as The Dark Knight. The film is definitely not nihilistic like Watchmen and there are plenty of beautiful and heroic moments. The ending is very redemptive and hopeful in nature.

5 - The cinematography is beautiful, the special effects are as good or better than what we saw in MOS. My worries about Doomsday after seeing him in the trailer were absolved by the film - he looks great here and in context he really works.

6 - There is indeed humor in the film. I wouldn't say it works as well as in the Marvel films, because something is off about the comedic timing. Another editing problem. However, there was one comedic beat in the finale that had my whole theatre laughing.

7 - Speaking of the audience, my theatre was packed. There were four moments of audience response at the appropriate times. I was surprised because the last time I've seen an audience that "into" the film was during the Fellowship of the Ring. Here's the parts where they responded (spoiler tags):

[BLACKOUT]When the bomb is about to go off in the senate hearing[/BLACKOUT], the audience murmured uncomfortably and one guy across the aisle said loudly to his buddy "something bad is going to happen."

[BLACKOUT]When Batman saved Martha and Martha made her wisecrack[/BLACKOUT], the audience laughed. And by the audience, I mean everyone. That moment landed very well.

[BLACKOUT]When Wonder Woman showed up[/BLACKOUT] the audience reacted in various ways. Some people oohed, someone in the back said "hell yeah" which made me laugh.

At the end of the film there was scattered clapping. It wasn't one of those whole theatre clapping moments, but it was more than one group of people. Last time I heard clapping in a theatre was at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, I think.

8 - The critics were wrong. Yeah, yeah, I know - in point #1 I said they were right. But the thing is, the pacing, while flawed, was not as bad as the pacing in Age of Ultron. The film, while dark, was appropriately dark and certainly not humorless or hopeless as I'd been led to believe. I have criticisms of my own about the film (regarding one or two things I won't spoil here), and the film isn't perfect, but it isn't 30% on RT bad. It really doesn't deserve that score.

9 - The moments that need to work really do work. Zack Snyder delivered. This isn't a Nolan film. Its not as clean in execution or as cerebral in atmosphere. But I found it deeply meaningful. There's lots of little things that the film doesn't beat you over the head with. Hopefully you'll catch them. And I found the film more emotionally arresting than any superhero film I've seen in a long time.

So, for what its worth, I loved it. I'm going to wait until my second viewing to decide on a rating, but I'm leaning toward 7/10 at the moment.

Very, very much agreed. Literally identical to my impression of the film.

 

[Broseph44]

I definitely wanna try to get a second viewing in soon. Kinda busy the rest of this weekend, maybe next weekend.

 

[the5timechamp]

Did not enjoy the movie.. though it does have several great moments..

-the shot of the diving by the world engine.. wow it looked nice
-bruce during the MOS battle
-anything involving alfred
-lex conversing with Superman on the rooftop
-The cops running into Batman
-Wonder Woman smiles after getting knocked on her ass
-Superman great exchange and smile with Lois near the end
-the Batman and Martha Kent exchange

 

[comicfan13]

I honestly loved it, yeah I could find some gripes about it but overall I loved it. Maybe I have bad taste in movies?

• I loved the Trinity performances, Affleck was great as Batman and boy he got jacked for this movie and his perspective from Zod and Superman fight was amazing. I love this version of Superman and how you get to see his struggles with protecting humanity. WW was awesome.
• I thought all the jokes landed for me especially Perry's comments and Alfred's comments. Martha's comment was the best.
• I really liked how they brought Batman back to humanity with the Martha line, I never knew they had both the same name.
• The Justice League cameos worked for me. I need to pay closer attention to the Flash's again (Knightmare).
• I don't know why, but I really enjoyed Lex. I can't explain it.
• Doomsday! I liked how he evolved throughout the fight and shedding his skin for his bones to come through. His final version was a damn good looking Doomsday.
• Ending battle was awesome. Seeing Trinity fighting together and WW using the lasso on Doomsday was sweet.
• Ending was beautifully done, I had so much feels I couldn't believe it.

Plan on seeing again!

 

[Forever Evil]

I definitely wanna try to get a second viewing in soon. Kinda busy the rest of this weekend, maybe next weekend.

Do it! Haha. I'm seeing it again on Monday.

 

[BH/HHH]

Thank god for this thread, the negativity (from a certain batch of posters) is rising throughout the BvS threads. Rename SHH to Negativity Rises

Anyway I posted this in the All Things thread but here's my mates experience watching the film a few hours ago:

Just got off the phone with my mate who I'm off to see it with tomorrow, he just hit back from his 3D IMAX viewing and he loved the film. He said it's his favourite Batman movie of them all (he's a huge Batman fan), he went in wanting to see Batman kick Superman's arse (he does like Superman though and is a fan of Man of Steel) but he said during the film he felt for Superman [BLACKOUT]and teared up when he died.[/BLACKOUT]. He gave the film a 9/10. I'm looking forward to watching it with him tomorrow, should be a good experience.

 

[Mai]

Thank god for this thread, the negativity (from a certain batch of posters) is rising throughout the BvS threads.

I agree, im glad this thread was made. I feel comfortable posting my opinion here considering it seems to be one of the minority opinions.

I was even feeling down about this yesterday, my mood lifted slightly when my Dad and little brother (whos 12) came back after seeing it this morning (i saw the afternoon showing) with only positive things to say. My little brother came through the door with a big grin on his face because of the film.

I was pleasantly surprised after viewing it, didnt think it was the train wreck the critics made it out to be.

 

[Forever Evil]

Thank god for this thread, the negativity (from a certain batch of posters) is rising throughout the BvS threads. Rename SHH to Negativity Rises

Anyway I posted this in the All Things thread but here's my mates experience watching the film a few hours ago:

It's trickling over to the Justice League boards now too, which sucks.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Anyway I posted this in the All Things thread but here's my mates experience watching the film a few hours ago:

Men are still good.

 

[Manny Moo]

Men are still good.

Yes, Yes they are:

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160323-is-batman-v-superman-a-winner

 

[BH/HHH]

It's trickling over to the Justice League boards now too, which sucks.

Really? Ugh!

I think I'll definitely be leaving SHH for a while after I'm done talking about BvS.

Men are still good.

Ha t:

 

[OutOfBoose]

Yes, Yes they are:

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160323-is-batman-v-superman-a-winner

I like the title. Fair article, even though I disagree on author's opinion on Wonder Woman and action.

 

[Marz69]

Some saw it as a weird plot hole (why not say "mom") but I really loved the "Save Martha" moment that ends the fight.

That's the first time I've seen anyone use the Martha Kent/Wayne thing as a story point and also finally brings in the whole mother aspect rather than repeating the "superheroes have daddy issues" thing.

I loved the martha connection. That was genius. I think he uses Martha instead of mom because batman doesn't know who Superman's mom is.

 

[Forever Evil]

Really? Ugh!

I think I'll definitely be leaving SHH for a while after I'm done talking about BvS.

Aww mate, don't leave us!

We are a rare breed now!

 

[Marz69]

Loved it. Will be going back soon. Loved everything about it. I'm sure the extended cut will smooth some of the rougher transitions but I never had a problem following the story. Zack told the story from several points of view coming at it from all angles. I like that style of storytelling myself.
That post nuke Supes was right out of Miller's DKR. Great shot. Funny how the nuke affected him and Doomsday in completely opposite ways.
I only have a couple of questions I would love to ask Zack. The primary one is what prompted the Knightmare vision? Was there something on the disk he decrypted? Did the future Flash put it there? Was it like some sort of subliminal hypnotic suggestion that flashed on his monitor?
Also what triggered Lex's spaz moment at the podium?

That's where I've seen it. I was staring at the shot knowing I've seen it before.

I was wondering what triggered the vision too. I thought maybe him looking at Lex' files and about to click on meta-human. It's the point where he becomes aware of them. Would have liked to have seen a cleaner transition into the knightmare, like the tunnel flash goes through when going to another universe. Something to signal a mental transfer that flash sent back to him

 

[sf2]

You know, as someone who for months and months was saying "they better not kill off Superman or this movie is ruined!!!" and I actually ended up really liking how they executed everything. Sad and emotional, but not the depressing letdown I thought it would be.

me too!!!

all my worries came true, like:-

superman was defeated by batman
all the shown saving scenes are just a montage and has little scene of superman saving innocent
superman got killed in the end

but i still love it.

because it is a great superman movie. so much hearts and stories. better than any of the previous superman movie, damn i say STM too.

and the last scene, the final push is so painful to watch...
the spear goes further in but the same time bone piercing through his body...

kids and some adults cry in many scenes...

 

[Citadel30]

THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD!!! My god... There are posters who I have never seen before in the BvS threads and they are just crushing the folks who loved BvS. And I've been around here a long time. I actually ignored someone for the first time in 9 years... I just couldn't take reading his vile remarks.

Regardless... I LOVED the movie. The pacing was definitely fast, which I like. Set up the pins... Then knock them down. The fight scenes were amazing. Batfleck was incredible and menacing. Superman seemed to grasp his purpose on earth and I thought lex was a perfect evil mastermind. I loved how they showed him thinking so hard and fast that it physically pained him when he was trying to articulate his thoughts. The ending was perfect... Has me drooling for JL.... And ww.... And a Batfleck standalone.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

You know I think one of the reasons I like the film so much is BECAUSE it was kind of ridiculous.

When a film is trying to be ultra serious and realistic, i'm much more likely to get hung up on nit picking things that don't make sense.

But when it's just trying to be a comic book movie and have fun and have fight scenes and evil villains with maniacal plans - and maybe touch on a few interesting adult thoughts in the process... I guess i'm much more forgiving

Honestly, I walked out of the film thinking 'This is what i've been missing from superhero films lately!'

The freedom for the story to be a bit 'silly' in places, because it's a comic book story, and that's sometimes half the fun

 

[kalelvis]

When the Warner bros logo came up, I whispered to my wife "I just want to see superman smile when he is saving someone." When he rescued the person from the fire at the day of the dead cavil had this subtle sweet smile on his face and only turned serious when the crowd surrounded him in near worship. Loved it.

 

[Forever Evil]

Post nuke Superman looked pretty damn scary. I loved that though. No holding back from Snyder at all.

 

[Marz69]

Spoiler

Here goes. I'll start by saying it took me a while to start seeing Henry Cavill as Superman. When I was a child Batman and Superman were my movie Superheroes. Cartoons wise I was spoilt for choice with BatmanTAS, SupermanTAS, Spiderman, that excellent X-Men cartoon, Iron Man cartoon with Mandarin, Incredible Hulk (Cartoon and Bill Bixby TV Series), and a little later Justice League/Unlimited. Superman was essentially Christopher Reeve to me. Batman was Michael Keaton or Adam West via reruns. I consider myself lucky.

We saw plenty of changes in terms of actor with Batman. Bale being the absolute best until this point since Keaton. Then with the X-Men, Spiderman Trilogy and later Iron Man, it was the first real movie iterations of the characters previously confined to Saturday morning cartoons or your local comic book store/supermarket. Dean Cain and Tom Welling seemed like timely versions of the Reeve Superman character. Brandon Routh was another variation on the same interpretation.

Cavill was very different and it took me a few viewings to accept him as Superman. This movie cemeted him as Superman to me and I think alot of people and to some extent the movie have done the guy a disservice. I think if you look closely at his portrayal in BVS you can see its a tremendous performance. It's subtle but it reflects the character's status as being one of in development. I think scene after scene you can pick out real hurt from the character as he becomes more and more the object of genuine hatred. The ultimate sacrifice theme is a common one, true, but when you consider that the sacrifice Superman makes at the end of the film is based on no foreknowledge of resurrection and in the context of the rest of the story, it is stirring, it is hopeful, it is the humanity of Superman. The bitter blows the character has taken in terms of confirming both his own and Jonathan Kent's worst fears about the consequences of his existence are heartbreaking. The nuclear weapon sequence is the ultimate reveal of just how much the balance of opinion on him and his actions is weighted in favour of fear and anger. Scoot McNairy's character represents the same fear and resentment. Supes is left with a decision as to whether or not he should continue to try and protect a world that is rejecting him.

Eisenberg's Lex is another underrated performance. This is a character driven by feelings of inferiority, inadequacy and helplessness since being bashed around as a kid by Lex Snr. Superman appears to him as the ultimate confirmation of his inadequacy, feebleness and lack of worth and so he becomes a threat that must be destroyed. Nothing can be more important to this character and we see the public façade break down into real mental illness. Its not the traditional take but who else does this sound like if not Lex Luthor? He is going to be interesting to follow into Justice League, how will he factor in with Darkseid? The end of the movie hints strongly that he will somehow at least.

Battfleck nailed it. essentially. Definitive Batman on screen. He really was Bruce Wayne and Batman but an extremely hopeless one. Most amazing live action Batman in terms of action sequences we have ever had. This Batman has really been through the ringer. Lost all hope. Is very very bitter even towards his parents for being murdered. This character hauls around a lot of family related guilt. Its the major theme, fear that he has not done enough to protect those he cares about. Such a good place to develop the Batman character from as we can see him move back with the help of the rest of the league towards a more optimistic and hopeful version of himself. More like the Justice League series. Not only would this be a unique take on the character but it would nicely mirror some central themes in the character's comic history. I like the idea, if indeed that is it. The interplay between Affleck and Irons was wonderful to watch. They have a great chemistry and as Batman moves away from the pitch black version he is here, there should be some great moments in that dynamic alone to be excited for the batman solo, Justice League and beyond. They really nailed his motivations for fearing superman and they arent simply as superficial as his power level and potential threat. Batman knows he has failed Superman in the end by letting his bitterness blind him to everything. I enjoy this kind of character development very much. In fact I am really looking forward to how this Batman interacts with Suicide Squad in a few months. This going to be amazing to see another great director's take on Affleck's Batman and of course we get to see and learn a bit more of Batman's world, most obviously his dynamic with Joker will surely be addressed.

Really didn't get to see enough of Gal to form a really solid opinion of her but she was good. Wonder Woman was great though action sequences and interactions with Affleck. Be interesting to see more of her interacting with the other Justice Leaguers too. It will be fun to see the character arc develop as its being done in reverse order and also seeing what role she will play going forward in the bigger plot. By the end of Batman V Superman she is sort of playing Merlin in King Batman Arthur's search for the Knights of the round table.

The Flash cameo has me excited about the storyline possibilities ahead. Cyborg one was also interesting in terms of... Hey...wait.. is that a Boom Tube Silas has? And why is Aquaman poking people with his Trident? Amy Adams was good again as Lois Lane and would like to have seen more Lois and Clark stuff. Fishbourne was really very sardonic and funny as Perry. Great to have an actor of that calibre around.

I could go on for hours, especially on the world weariness of Batman and how they lead him to do some very dark and brutal things. There is lots of great to take from this movie. A lot to be hopeful for. Right now there is nothing else to do but look at the positives. The film did have it's negatives, no need for me to go into them here. If you have read reviews and seen the movie its easy to see which ones are accurate and differentiate these from the ones that you don't think are.

Lastly, I have to say a downer vibe has affected my enjoyment of the movie from reading these threads since the reviews started rolling in. I am happy this particular thread exists, but then again I wish it wasn't necessary. There is a lot of negativity in every walk of life. Some people feed off it, it helps them makes sense of the world to have something to hate. Something to define themselves against. I'm optimistic because I saw enough quality and potential in this movie for some very interesting storytelling going forward. Good times ahead people... wait and see

Regarding your nuclear/superman bit: That scene was powerful in varying ways.

1) Superman took the hit not knowing he would come back, holding doomsday in the blast as well as himself. He saw that humanity sacrificed him and his selflessness didn't flinch.

2) What superman didn't know was that humanity wanted him to survive it. When doomsday fell back to earth but not superman, you can hear the sadness in their voices.

Regarding Lex:

When we see Lex again, I hope we get a flashback of his childhood.

 

[Legendver2]

The movie was not as dark as everyone puts it. Honestly I feel alot of the criticism from this board is way exaggerated, and I almost fell for it before watching the movie. I mean in regards to Batman's killing, I swear naysayers were making it sound like he went straight up to mooks and slit their necks.

Most of the alleged deaths were just collateral, probably on the same degree as the Nolan movies. I mean you can't criticize the chase scene and cars flipping, but then give Batman Begins a pass when the same thing happens during the car chase, and those were COPS. Same with his use of the enemies guns during the present day scenes (I count knightmare as almost elsewhere, since it's only a *possible* future). Even in TDK, Batman uses a mooks pistol to shoot another in the leg.

There was a moment, where I thought, since I saw Batman with the rifle in the trailers, if he sniped kill someone, I'm done with the movie. It was a legit concern, since in DKR, the rifle was used as a grappling gun, but he already has those, so I really wasn't sure what the rifle was for. Then when that scene finally came, I was bracing myself for it, when he was scoping the dude in the truck. Then he just shoots a tracker, and I was like "oh that's it?" and felt a moment of relief.

I swear people are exaggerating the darkness, the killing, and how not for kids this is. I think most kids would totally love this from just the action alone. Although I can understand why some claims of kids crying can be legit mostly due to Superman's death, but saying the Batman vs Superman fight will scar kids? Get outta here!

 

[BH/HHH]

THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD!!! My god... There are posters who I have never seen before in the BvS threads and they are just crushing the folks who loved BvS. And I've been around here a long time. I actually ignored someone for the first time in 9 years... I just couldn't take reading his vile remarks.

Yup there's a certain atch of posters who are relishing in the fact the film is getting skated by critics and don't like when people like it.

You know I think one of the reasons I like the film so much is BECAUSE it was kind of ridiculous.

When a film is trying to be ultra serious and realistic, i'm much more likely to get hung up on nit picking things that don't make sense.

But when it's just trying to be a comic book movie and have fun and have fight scenes and evil villains with maniacal plans - and maybe touch on a few interesting adult thoughts in the process... I guess i'm much more forgiving

Honestly, I walked out of the film thinking 'This is what i've been missing from superhero films lately!'

The freedom for the story to be a bit 'silly' in places, because it's a comic book story, and that's sometimes half the fun

I get what you mean actually, I honestly thought this film was a ton of fun. The humourless and joyless comments I just don't understand.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Glad this thread is there, no trolling will be really nice.

When the film reached the senate scene, it turned into something completely different for me, it got so emotional, Supes surrounded by fire, his discussion with Lois before going away for a bit, talking to his dad, the Martha bit, the ending.

MOS is a superhero film that makes me feel unlike any other, and I got that again here, and I don't find that in other superhero films. I'm not saying that as a dig to MCU films that I LOVE, but having this dark, dramatic, serious tone allows for that kind of emotional moments in a very tangible way.

Having that moment where Clark asks him to save his mother, Bruce losing his cool at the mention of the name, and it being the catalyst that, not only, awakens Bruce's humanity but also makes him realize that Superman, while being a Kryptonian, is still in many ways a human being as well with a mother. That's just brilliant.

I cannot wait for the ultimate cut to just bring us more great things, more character stuff like Zack said, more action, slightly more violence, a much different Africa scene, maybe more Clark, more Bruce, maybe more Wallace Keefe, more from the senate hearing scene? Oracle, etc, etc.

I seriously believe the ultimate cut will not only fix the editing issues of the first act (no problem with the rest) but be really the version that everyone should have seen. I'm interested to see if those who don't like it reevaluate it and end up changing their minds.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I also loved how Batman came for Luther in the end. And Luthor is arch-nemesis of Superman.