Ant-Man The best way that Marvel can fix this

[samsnee]

So they want a superhero movie without the superhero.

 

[Rock Sexton]

So they want a superhero movie without the superhero.

Basically. I just thank God Marvel Films doesn't listen to them. Tired of the snobbery.

 

[Mastodon123]

It's not an apt comparison.

Why? Because WCW went out of business? That not what I was getting at all.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Interesting points.

I read someone else's comment in another thread, can't remember fully but the gist was that Marvel and Feige started out wanting to make good movies that culminated with a big team-up and they did it and it made bank.

Then the Disney suits got involved and wanted to keep the formula the same so as to keep the box office high, thus has led to the factory/assembly line similarities and criticisms the movies have had. No longer are they artists making art but artists commissioned to make lots of art in a shorter space of time to sell to keep profits high.

Whether that's true or to what extent I don't know but there are critisms of the movies being too samey, predictable and less individual and unique

They don't have a good relationship with their directors. I imagine that's because directors are film makers who liked to stretch their artistic talents whereas Marvel wants them to follow an instruction sheet so to speak.

They don't have poor relationships with ALL their directors. You don't see JJ, Branagh, Whedon, Black, Gunn, or the Russos saying anything bad about Marvel. They seem to be on fine terms with all of them. They just didn't mesh with a few others. Same can be said for any studio.

 

[Dasher10]

And now the anti-Marvel crowd shows up. This feels like the Fantastic Four forums now where everyone's hating on Fox and sees them as ab evil empire. Keep in mind that I'm not anticipating Ant-Man or Fantastic Four since I'm not a huge fan of either property in general. I kind of regret making this thread now since it's inviting in haters who have little to no sense of critical thinking and retroactively hate decisions made in films that they previously liked.

Seriously, people need to calm down and lay off the attacks. I mean, Fox could give a bit more info on Fantastic Four just like Marvel could cancel Ant-Man and replace it with a property that can maintain an ongoing series like Black Panther or Captain Marvel.

 

[TheVileOne]

Why? Because WCW went out of business? That not what I was getting at all.

Because the Marvel people are still in charge over there. Also, the Disney acquisition has been positive for Marvel Studios, more cash for the coffers and such. Bigger marketing machine, etc.

 

[Heretic]

Personally, I wish Marvel's movies were a little more different from each other. Thor 2 felt like it tacked on a bunch of needless comedy just to appeal to the people who think Tony Stark is funny. Thor's solo movies should be Game of Thrones with super powers or something that feels like the old epic tales. Cap 2 did feel like it's own movie, yet still serviced the overall world it is in.

I'm not really interested in Ant Man as a character...but since we know we're going to get "Honey, I Shrunk The Superhero" jokes and headlines, it made sense for them to do an Edgar Wright style comedy (but still something kids could watch). I think it needed the credibility his name brought in order to avoid being dismissed by much of the hoped for audience. The kids will come regardless of who directs it.

 

[Dasher10]

Personally, I wish Marvel's movies were a little more different from each other. Thor 2 felt like it tacked on a bunch of needless comedy just to appeal to the people who think Tony Stark is funny. Thor's solo movies should be Game of Thrones with super powers or something that feels like the old epic tales. Cap 2 did feel like it's own movie, yet still serviced the overall world it is in.

I'm not really interested in Ant Man as a character...but since we know we're going to get "Honey, I Shrunk The Superhero" jokes and headlines, it made sense for them to do an Edgar Wright style comedy (but still something kids could watch). I think it needed the credibility his name brought in order to avoid being dismissed by much of the hoped for audience. The kids will come regardless of who directs it.

But depending on the reception, it might just be kids. I was only sold due to Wright. Now that he's gone, I'm back to being just as apathetic about the character as I used to be and lamenting that Marvel didn't make a Black Panther or Captain Marvel film instead.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Interesting points.

I read someone else's comment in another thread, can't remember fully but the gist was that Marvel and Feige started out wanting to make good movies that culminated with a big team-up and they did it and it made bank.

Then the Disney suits got involved and wanted to keep the formula the same so as to keep the box office high, thus has led to the factory/assembly line similarities and criticisms the movies have had. No longer are they artists making art but artists commissioned to make lots of art in a shorter space of time to sell to keep profits high.

Whether that's true or to what extent I don't know but there are critisms of the movies being too samey, predictable and less individual and unique

They don't have a good relationship with their directors. I imagine that's because directors are film makers who liked to stretch their artistic talents whereas Marvel wants them to follow an instruction sheet so to speak.

I don't agree with this. If anything, Marvel films felt more cookie-cutter in Phase 1, and the success of The Avengers has emboldened them to make films in Phase 2 that, while still operating within he same basic framework, feel more diverse, more like they're establishing their own identity, and give the directors more of a showcase.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, although I'd also point out that Iron Man and Captain America were origin stories, so a similarity there should be expected.

 

[Mysteryman]

One thing you have to love about TIH , they showed Banners origin practically in the opening credits .

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, to me, that showed a willingness to break the formula even then. Part of the reason was that they thought the audience had just seen the origin story in the other Hulk film so it was redundant to repeat (however, out of caution, they did tell bits and pieces of the story as it went on because the movie, ultimately, was designed to introduce people to the Hulk).

Going forward, we have other emerging characters. But I hope The Incredible Hulk taught them that they can tell the origin story in non-traditional ways (ways that don't waste half the damn movie).

 

[metaphysician]

And now the anti-Marvel crowd shows up. This feels like the Fantastic Four forums now where everyone's hating on Fox and sees them as ab evil empire. Keep in mind that I'm not anticipating Ant-Man or Fantastic Four since I'm not a huge fan of either property in general. I kind of regret making this thread now since it's inviting in haters who have little to no sense of critical thinking and retroactively hate decisions made in films that they previously liked.

Seriously, people need to calm down and lay off the attacks. I mean, Fox could give a bit more info on Fantastic Four just like Marvel could cancel Ant-Man and replace it with a property that can maintain an ongoing series like Black Panther or Captain Marvel.

You realize the crowds in both are almost completely different people, right? Most of the guys in FF who hate the movie are Marvel fans. Its not an "anti-Marvel crowd" over there.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

One thing people fail to mention when referencing Batman and Watchmen is the fact they really arent "super heroes" as we know them. Theyre basically glorified vigilantes with some fighting skills & cool gadgets. I dont consider them to be pure super heroes like the Avengers are. Sin City is a noir themed graphic novel, thats not super heroes either.

Agreed I don't consider Batman a superhero but a Vigilante like you said.

 

[Mysteryman]

You realize the crowds in both are almost completely different people, right? Most of the guys in FF who hate the movie are Marvel fans. Its not an "anti-Marvel crowd" over there.

Would it be more accurate to call it an "anti Fox version of FF" crowd?."

 

[Mastodon123]

Because the Marvel people are still in charge over there. Also, the Disney acquisition has been positive for Marvel Studios, more cash for the coffers and such. Bigger marketing machine, etc.

So you think Marvel doesn't have to answer to Disney, or Disney haven't inserted some of their people into Marvel since the acquisition? That's what I was getting at with the Bischoff video.Look I like some of the Marvel movies like IM1, Incredible Hulk, and Avengers. I just find it annoying how fans seem to have Marvel Studios up on a Pedestal because of their name when they've acted no different than the other studios. Fox would get torched if they were producing Iron Man 2, and Ant Man, and handled them the way Marvel has.

 

[Mysteryman]

I think the opinion among a lot of fans is that Fox has made some crappy CBM's
Whereas Marvel has a better track record in that regard .

 

[Mastodon123]

I think the opinion among a lot of fans is that Fox has made some crappy CBM's
Whereas Marvel has a better track record in that regard .

This is something I don't disagree with. Better track record or not, Marvel still has shown tendencies to act like Fox.

 

[Rock Sexton]

One thing you have to love about TIH , they showed Banners origin practically in the opening credits .

Don't make me praise that film anymore than I have. LOL

But yes, I love the opening sequence. It's one of the best things about the movie.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The movie wasn't spectacular, but it kept my interest throughout and I didn't think there was anything overtly stupid. It was probably overpraised at the time (where people liked it just for Downey's appearance), but I think it's also overly criticized now.

 

[Rock Sexton]

The movie wasn't spectacular, but it kept my interest throughout and I didn't think there was anything overtly stupid. It was probably overpraised at the time (where people liked it just for Downey's appearance), but I think it's also overly criticized now.

Even I can attest that a few of the CGI shots of Hulk are not up to snuff and they stripped Doc Samson and Banner of some of their development (moreso the Doc).

However, the entire movie flowed so well for me ..... how I expect a CBM to. It also showcased so much MCU interconnectivity goodness. The actors nailed their roles. I want to see William Hurt again, oh and Tim Blake Nelson (even though it'll never happen).

 

[Mysteryman]

I never imagined William Hurt as Ross, but he was perfectly cast.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Even I can attest that a few of the CGI shots of Hulk are not up to snuff and they stripped Doc Samson and Banner of some of their development (moreso the Doc).

However, the entire movie flowed so well for me ..... how I expect a CBM to. It also showcased so much MCU interconnectivity goodness. The actors nailed their roles. I want to see William Hurt again, oh and Tim Blake Nelson (even though it'll never happen).

The movie went a bit light on character in exchange for more action, I agree (particularly with Banner. Samson existed in name only, imo), but Banner was handled well. When the Hulk shows up, I'm usually relatively indifferent (my favorite of the three (if my count is correct) was the first one in the factory), but I recognize he's necessary. To me, the Hulk doesn't make or break the movie.

 

[KangConquers]

And now the anti-Marvel crowd shows up. This feels like the Fantastic Four forums now where everyone's hating on Fox and sees them as ab evil empire. Keep in mind that I'm not anticipating Ant-Man or Fantastic Four since I'm not a huge fan of either property in general. I kind of regret making this thread now since it's inviting in haters who have little to no sense of critical thinking and retroactively hate decisions made in films that they previously liked.

Seriously, people need to calm down and lay off the attacks. I mean, Fox could give a bit more info on Fantastic Four just like Marvel could cancel Ant-Man and replace it with a property that can maintain an ongoing series like Black Panther or Captain Marvel.

Captain Marvel, both male and female have had their comics canceled several time. Black Panther has a patchy record too.

I'm not sure why you're so hard up for an Ant-Man cancelation. I've explained to you several times why it would be foolish, and how Marvel would be flushing millions, breaking pay or play contracts (Michael Douglas would get paid even if this film was canceled).

Ant-Man, unlike Captain Marvel, is his own concept. He has a unique power set, his own set of solo villains, a love interest, a supporting characters. He's far better suited for a big screen solo film than Danvers (supporting character who was upgraded to Generic flying superhero through convoluted plot contrivances and fights leftover Captain America and Iron Man villains) or Black Panther (who has roughly Cap's powers, Tony Stark's inventive genius, and Thor-esque royalty issues/ battles for the throne.) While Black Panther does offer an exotic location / his own rogues gallery, so much about him feels familiar.

The test reel shows how innovative Ant-Man can be.

 

[Mysteryman]

I am pleasantly surprised that most of the people in the Cancellation thread feel that the movie should continue .
I was very glad to see that.