The Cape

[kguillou]

While I'll respectfully disagree about tonight's episode being "much" better, (I think in a lot of ways it may have actually been worse than last week but thats a whole other point) I think you've hit on something else with your comment about David Lyons.

He's much too timid and soft-spoken. When he's "The Cape" you dont really buy it. Hell, the guy he hung over the bridge didnt really seem to buy it either lol. There's no command or presence when he's wearing the costume. There's no character differentiation.

Compare that to Bale when he puts on the cowl in the Bat films. Whether or not you like his gravely voice as Batman, there's a clear delineation b/t Batman and Bruce Wayne. Lyons seems to suffer from the same thing that plagued Dean Cain's Superman. His costumed hero isnt another character, it's just his normal character wearing a costume. And his normal Farraday character just doesn't have "it." And while the written dialogue is cringe-worthy in it's own right, he doesn't really seem to have the gusto to even try to sell it.

When i say "much" better, its all relatively speaking cause the show still has a ton of issues to iron out.

But yeah dude, Lyons just isn't good. You've hit it dead on that he's very timid and soft spoken, he just ISN'T a right fit for this role. period. Whoever the casting director was for this show really blew it on this one. The few times where i was actually enjoying the episode, i found it ruined by Lyon's voice and awful line delivery. I'm not saying they need a guy with a super gravely, gritty, dark voice but he doesnt have that confidence and sternness in his voice and like you said, he doesn't have a commanding presence which i think is required for this role.

So i dunno, i liked tonite's episode significantly better than the premiere but if the LEAD actor is bothering me, i'm not sure how much longer i'll stick around.

 

[mr. peasant]

While those are big issues, I think the underlying premise of the show is extremely flawed. The motivations of most of the main characters just seem really arbitrary and not well thought out. They just seem to do things for the sake of doing them to move the narrative forward.

I disagree. With the exception of the villain (whose goal seems rather vague at the moment), the rest have some classic/logical motivation:

Vince Faraday - Discovers a crime ring, corruption and made into the fallguy, he desperately wants to get his name and family back as well as exact justice/vengeance on said criminals.

Dana Faraday - The main character's wife who is trying to cope being a single mother and to live with people thinking her husband is a terrorist. Working at the law firm, she's well placed for further plot development; whether it be finding proof of vindicate her husband, corruption or just moving on (creating tension with her son and angst for the main character).

Orwell - [BLACKOUT]Probably disagrees with her father's practices and thus leading a covert crusade to expose his activities.[/BLACKOUT]

Circus of Crime - They didn't help him become a superhero. The deal was that in exchange for Faraday's assistance and security access, they help enable him to get his family back, to clear his name and to exact justice/vengeance. Yes, it's a short term goal but it could be argued they're short-sighted people.

Max Malini - He's the only member of the Circus who's actively supporting Faraday's vigilantism; acting as a mentor and confidante. However, they seem to be setting him up to be on a redemptive path for his much darker past.

 

[KALEL114]

Alright, I gave this show one extra episode and now I'm out for good. It has zero redeeming qualities. The writing is just too terrible to overcome. It's just so cliche.

 

[TheVileOne]

If Max is a ****ing wanted criminal why is he holding a ****ing public circus event?!

Is Fleming and his network so incompetent they can't find Max out in the open at a freaking circus?

 

[Paradox1]

i think some of the best villains dont have a endgame move like Hannibal Lector, sometimes murder and mayhem is enough for villains. I think we as viewers, people what have you like things to make sense but truly evil acts rarely ever do at least in the real world they dont. However I suspect Chess does have a endgame move I actually suspect he has many for all forseeable outcomes, Chess justseems very machvillain to me.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I think what I like about this show is that Faraday basically isn't trying to be a hero. I mean in the sense of wearing the cape, he is but in reality, all he's doing is using that attire to try and get his named cleared. But then again he is still a cop and rather being a "superhero", he basically uses the weapon he has been given as another way of fighting crime as a rouge cop.

 

[mr. peasant]

i think some of the best villains dont have a endgame move like Hannibal Lector, sometimes murder and mayhem is enough for villains. I think we as viewers, people what have you like things to make sense but truly evil acts rarely ever do at least in the real world they dont. However I suspect Chess does have a endgame move I actually suspect he has many for all forseeable outcomes, Chess justseems very machvillain to me.

Well, with a nane like Chess, he really should. Problem is, we're not seeing it. Also, while not all villains need to have a long-term goal, they need to then be shown actively doing villainous things. At least one of these two elements needs to be made clear. Otherwise, you wind up edging into Designated Villain territory.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I disagree. With the exception of the villain (whose goal seems rather vague at the moment), the rest have some classic/logical motivation:

Vince Faraday - Discovers a crime ring, corruption and made into the fallguy, he desperately wants to get his name and family back as well as exact justice/vengeance on said criminals.

You think that makes sense for him becoming a costumed vigilante? He was formerly a high level detective, why not seek out an outside law enforcement agency? He'd likely have had FBI contacts ,etc. Also he went from normal police detective to full blown magician, escapist, and vigilante in what? a matter of a few weeks? Again not to harp on Batman, but considering he's the closest "self-made, normal human hero" out there. Look at the basis of his motivation for becoming a hero and the lengths of what he had to endure to do so.

Dana Faraday - The main character's wife who is trying to cope being a single mother and to live with people thinking her husband is a terrorist. Working at the law firm, she's well placed for further plot development; whether it be finding proof of vindicate her husband, corruption or just moving on (creating tension with her son and angst for the main character).

Except to this point she's a cardboard cut-out of a character who seemingly got a job as a high level DA by throwing a temper tantrum in a hallway. LOL

Orwell - [BLACKOUT]Probably disagrees with her father's practices and thus leading a covert crusade to expose his activities.[/BLACKOUT]

Or she basically just exists to provide the Cape with technology and bankroll his efforts.

Circus of Crime - They didn't help him become a superhero. The deal was that in exchange for Faraday's assistance and security access, they help enable him to get his family back, to clear his name and to exact justice/vengeance.

by teaching him how to beocme a magician, hypnotist, and an escape artist as wel las how to use a "magic" cape?

Also his security access was just a master key card to the Ark systems. Couldnt they have just killed him and used it? Also wouldnt Ark have ya know, terminated his access to their systems after killing him off? And wouldnt they have been able to see their systems were being accessed by his card?

Yes, it's a short term goal but it could be argued they're short-sighted people..

You could say the same about the people who created the show.

/rimshot

 

[BlackLantern]

 

[The Shape]

You think that makes sense for him becoming a costumed vigilante? He was formerly a high level detective, why not seek out an outside law enforcement agency? He'd likely have had FBI contacts ,etc. Also he went from normal police detective to full blown magician, escapist, and vigilante in what? a matter of a few weeks? Again not to harp on Batman, but considering he's the closest "self-made, normal human hero" out there. Look at the basis of his motivation for becoming a hero and the lengths of what he had to endure to do so.



Except to this point she's a cardboard cut-out of a character who seemingly got a job as a high level DA by throwing a temper tantrum in a hallway. LOL



Or she basically just exists to provide the Cape with technology and bankroll his efforts.



by teaching him how to beocme a magician, hypnotist, and an escape artist as wel las how to use a "magic" cape?

Also his security access was just a master key card to the Ark systems. Couldnt they have just killed him and used it? Also wouldnt Ark have ya know, terminated his access to their systems after killing him off? And wouldnt they have been able to see their systems were being accessed by his card?



You could say the same about the people who created the show.

/rimshot

Sorry, but it seems that you might be missing the point of this show. This isn't The Dark Knight. This show is far from being a thinking man's superhero story. This is not Watchmen 2.0.

The Cape is an unabashedly campy and earnest television show. It's a charming story that, while undoubtedly unrealistic, works within the context of its own boundaries. It's the creation of a new superhero that clearly borrows various elements from pre-existing comic book tales while attempting to establish its own mythology (some of which we were exposed to in this most recent episode). Most of the origin story had to be condensed into 2 hours of television filled with 3 or 4 minute commercial breaks, so there are obviously limitations and things will feel forced, but now it seems that the show is finding its footing and successfully expanding the story and characters.

If you're looking for plot holes and inaccuracies, why watch a show like this? Seems pointless to waste your time on it if you can't suspend your disbelief for an hour every week.

 

[BlackLantern]

if you can't do it right, don't ****ing do it

 

[wiegeabo]

if you can't do it right, don't ****ing do it

Just like Star Trek: TNG!


...oh, wait.


God forbid a show actually be allowed to grow and find it's footing.

 

[BlackLantern]

Just like Star Trek: TNG!


...oh, wait.


God forbid a show actually be allowed to grow and find it's footing.

these days, especially with NBC changing ownership, any show that can't come out of the gate hot isn't going to last long

 

[kguillou]

Sorry, but it seems that you might be missing the point of this show. This isn't The Dark Knight. This show is far from being a thinking man's superhero story. This is not Watchmen 2.0.

The Cape is an unabashedly campy and earnest television show. It's a charming story that, while undoubtedly unrealistic, works within the context of its own boundaries. It's the creation of a new superhero that clearly borrows various elements from pre-existing comic book tales while attempting to establish its own mythology (some of which we were exposed to in this most recent episode). Most of the origin story had to be condensed into 2 hours of television filled with 3 or 4 minute commercial breaks, so there are obviously limitations and things will feel forced, but now it seems that the show is finding its footing and successfully expanding the story and characters.

If you're looking for plot holes and inaccuracies, why watch a show like this? Seems pointless to waste your time on it if you can't suspend your disbelief for an hour every week.

Yeah but the thing is, we wouldnt be complaining about the plot holes and inaccuracies if it was at least executed well. I'm sure if we went back to Heroes season 1, we could point out a metric TON of inaccuracies, but at the time no one complained because the show was executed so damn well that we let it slide.

The execution just isn't there yet for the show. David Lyon is a pain to watch, the pacing is all over the place, the character motivations are all over the place. I mean it feels like they're trying to merge the Dark Knight with the 60's Adam West show and i really dont think the two mix well. If your going to go all dark, gritty and realistic then DO that. If your going to go campy and fun and unrealistic, then DO that. But i dont think combining the two works very well.

 

[KALEL114]

This show will not find it's "footing" unless the writing staff is replaced IMO. The dialogue alone is cringe worthy and I would understand them going that route if they were shooting for cheesy 80's schtick, but they aren't. They claim it's a crime drama and want us to take it seriously. It's a show with an identity crisis and that's on the writers and show runner.

 

[roach]

Honestly if you dont like the show dont watch it...no one is forcing you guys to watch it

 

[KALEL114]

Just posting our opinions on what we have seen. No need to get snippy.

 

[kguillou]

Honestly if you dont like the show dont watch it...no one is forcing you guys to watch it

Obviously, if we're watching it we're trying to like it. Its a show with a cool concept that is faltering badly in execution. We want it to be good, but its frustrating to see a good concept go down the drain. Thats all.

 

[roach]

I am not getting snippy...just stating a fact. I dont like American Idol. I dont watch it. I dont go into the AI thread and constantly talk about what I didnt like.

 

[KALEL114]

So you formed an opinion about AI, but never watched an episode of it? That's not what I do. I gave the Cape three episodes to show me what it had to offer. In my opinion it failed to do what it set out to do and I decided to post my opinion. That's what we do here (message boards). As I stated before, I will not be watching it ant further.

 

[Dr Lee]

I am not getting snippy...just stating a fact. I dont like American Idol. I dont watch it. I dont go into the AI thread and constantly talk about what I didnt like.

exactly the same view i have...This isn't meant to be directed at anyone in particular... but i don't understand why people spend time complaining about something they don't or won't watch....

 

[carrrnuttt]

Well, with a nane like Chess, he really should. Problem is, we're not seeing it. Also, while not all villains need to have a long-term goal, they need to then be shown actively doing villainous things. At least one of these two elements needs to be made clear. Otherwise, you wind up edging into Designated Villain territory.

I don't understand how you guys aren't seeing it, considering it was practically hammered into our heads during the two-hour pilot. I got it, and I was only peripherally watching the show, as I was also surfing online at the same time.

He wants to use Palm City as an example of how private police forces work better than government-run ones. His goal is to eventually run the police forces for the whole country. Considering he already has military contracts, it's obvious he plans to turn at least the country into a police state with him in charge. After that, the World, I'm assuming. Sounds a bit clichéd, but what else should a megalomaniacal-billionaire-that-can-buy-anything-he-wants strive for?

 

[BlackLantern]

So you formed an opinion about AI, but never watched an episode of it? That's not what I do. I gave the Cape three episodes to show me what it had to offer. In my opinion it failed to do what it set out to do and I decided to post my opinion. That's what we do here (message boards). As I stated before, I will not be watching it ant further.

3 episodes is my usual grace period, unless the show is really, really bad....I know a "pilot" is usually a rough draft of what a series is intended to be

 

[Alex The Great]

Yeah, this episode was better than the first one. Will give the third episode a shot I guess

 

[mr. peasant]

I don't understand how you guys aren't seeing it, considering it was practically hammered into our heads during the two-hour pilot. I got it, and I was only peripherally watching the show, as I was also surfing online at the same time.

He wants to use Palm City as an example of how private police forces work better than government-run ones. His goal is to eventually run the police forces for the whole country. Considering he already has military contracts, it's obvious he plans to turn at least the country into a police state with him in charge. After that, the World, I'm assuming. Sounds a bit clichéd, but what else should a megalomaniacal-billionaire-that-can-buy-anything-he-wants strive for?

I got that too. However, that was part of the show establishing its setting and plot. Once that point was made clear, we don't see it progress further. Yes, he contracts out a kill on the politician stonewalling his takeover of the prisons but we don't see the thought process behind it - why kill the guy at the slightest opposition, how does it get him closer to his goal, etc? It's like "Hmm, he's in my way, KILL THAT MOTHA****A!!" Likewise, why smuggle weapons and directly associate with international criminals in the very town you're trying to control (and where there are people in power who oppose your takeover)? Yes, we can speculate and make assumptions but the show should make it clear; since different people (in this case, villains) would respond differently. Which leads to be original criticism; being that we need to see more of Chess' thought process.

3 episodes is my usual grace period, unless the show is really, really bad....I know a "pilot" is usually a rough draft of what a series is intended to be

I disagree. The 2nd or 3rd episode is when a series tends to show what a regular episode is like. The pilot, at least these days for non-procedural and non-comedy shows, tends to establish the setting and status quo. Same goes for the 2nd episode if it's a two-parter or double bill.