The Cape

[kguillou]

I'm gonna give it a few more episodes to find itself...but again, my main problem with the show is the lead actor playing the Cape so...i'm not sure i'll last past that point.

 

[The Shape]

I got that too. However, that was part of the show establishing its setting and plot. Once that point was made clear, we don't see it progress further. Yes, he contracts out a kill on the politician stonewalling his takeover of the prisons but we don't see the thought process behind it - why kill the guy at the slightest opposition, how does it get him closer to his goal, etc? It's like "Hmm, he's in my way, KILL THAT MOTHA****A!!"

Uh, the guy's a total psychopath with a masked alter-ego that allows him to carry out his ruthless/dirty deeds. Isn't this what villains with evil goals do? Don't they do whatever it takes to make sure they succeed, including eliminating competition (and superheroes)? Killing one of the few people willing to stand up to Chess takes him "closer to his goal" of taking over the prisons. What further explanation/exposition do you need? Do you need Chess to sit in front of the camera and explain his feelings/inner motivation to the audience? Seems like you're really reaching here.

Likewise, why smuggle weapons and directly associate with international criminals in the very town you're trying to control (and where there are people in power who oppose your takeover)? Yes, we can speculate and make assumptions but the show should make it clear; since different people (in this case, villains) would respond differently. Which leads to be original criticism; being that we need to see more of Chess' thought process.

He smuggles weapons and associates with crazed criminals BECAUSE HE CAN AND HE IS EVIL. Hence why Peter Flemmning has the alter-ego of Chess, which allows him to carry out these deeds. On one hand, Peter Flemming is the most powerful and ruthless man in Palm City, but he at least pretends to care about the well-being of the people and he acts as if he is working to protect the city. On the the hand, Chess is part of the reason Flemming has become so powerful, because this persona can openly get his hands dirty. Plus, Flemming framed Vince as Chess, essentially erasing any chance of being uncovered.

Chess is the big baddie this season. He won't be at the center of every episode, but his prescence will be felt and his character he obviously become more developed as the season continues. We will see more of his motivations and thought process. I know it's a friggin cheesy comic book show, but these things aren't hard to grasp.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I got that too. However, that was part of the show establishing its setting and plot. Once that point was made clear, we don't see it progress further. Yes, he contracts out a kill on the politician stonewalling his takeover of the prisons but we don't see the thought process behind it - why kill the guy at the slightest opposition, how does it get him closer to his goal, etc? It's like "Hmm, he's in my way, KILL THAT MOTHA****A!!" Likewise, why smuggle weapons and directly associate with international criminals in the very town you're trying to control (and where there are people in power who oppose your takeover)? Yes, we can speculate and make assumptions but the show should make it clear; since different people (in this case, villains) would respond differently. Which leads to be original criticism; being that we need to see more of Chess' thought process.

You're thinking of Peter Fleming and Chess as one person. Yes, they technically are, but in many ways, Peter Fleming is using Chess to further his goals. Chess is setting the chaos [the weapons smuggling] that Peter then "fixes" with his private police force, therefore ingraining himself deeper as a "solution" to crime in the city. Considering Peter is literally in charge of the police force in the city, it's fairly easy for him to separate himself from the Chess persona, especially to the public.

*EDIT: This is why it was so perfect for Peter to setup Faraday as Chess. Being the one that "captured and eliminated" the notorious criminal made him look more competent than the city's existing PD, which is what eventually put him over the top as far as taking over law enforcement of the city.*

As far as killing the prisons head, Ark was practically set to take over the prison system for the city(/state?) as well, if it wasn't for the head guy's dissent.

 

[wiegeabo]

I figured Chess was taking over the city's services so he can essentially run his criminal organization through it.

What better city to run all your smuggling and drug operations through then the one in which you own the police? (and prisons, if that had worked out). You clear the streets of petty, open crime, and the public loves you. And they're willing to turn a blind eye to all the real nasty stuff that you control on the side.

They mentioned in the pilot he had done this in cities in other countries. So, if this is why he's taking over, then I'd expect this to come up in some way in the show eventually.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Sorry, but it seems that you might be missing the point of this show. This isn't The Dark Knight. This show is far from being a thinking man's superhero story. This is not Watchmen 2.0.

I'm not expecting it to be. just because you want a semi-coherent plot and clear character motivations doesnt mean your asking for it to be Citizen Kane.

The Cape is an unabashedly campy and earnest television show. It's a charming story that, while undoubtedly unrealistic, works within the context of its own boundaries. It's the creation of a new superhero that clearly borrows various elements from pre-existing comic book tales while attempting to establish its own mythology (some of which we were exposed to in this most recent episode). Most of the origin story had to be condensed into 2 hours of television filled with 3 or 4 minute commercial breaks, so there are obviously limitations and things will feel forced,

The problem is that it doesnt work within it's own boundaries. I can deal with plotholes and suspend my disbelief. Trust me, I've endured 10 years of Smallville. However, this show doesnt really follow the rules of the world it creates. It sets up a city that just gave itself over to basically being a police state, yet they cant figure out a known criminal and circus crime ring is on a circus ground in the city? Huh? They have a band of outlaws who for some reason help an ex-cop and train him to be a superhero solely because he has a security access card? What?

And who said the origin story had to be condensed into 2 hours? They didnt even give it that much time. This isnt a feature flm where you get an entire origin in 40 minutes. They have at least a 13 episode order for the season, which is 13 hours of story tell at minimum. You mean to tell me they couldnt have taken the entire first hour and hashed out his origin a little more? Before the end of the first hour of TV, he was completely the cape, just didnt wear a mask.

but now it seems that the show is finding its footing and successfully expanding the story and characters.

What character exposition was there exactly in last night's episode?

As for it gaining a footing:

-Yesterday’s Losers (excluding repeats):
Chuck (NBC), The Cape (NBC), Lie to Me (Fox)

building from the second episode of The Cape (Viewers: #3, 6.19 million; A18-49: #3t, 1.8/ 4 at 9 p.m.) by 4.85 million viewers and 17 percent in the demo. The Cape came crashing down from its initial tune-in on Sunday, January 9 (Viewers: 8.45 million; A18-49: 2.6/ 7).

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/933100743

If you're looking for plot holes and inaccuracies, why watch a show like this? Seems pointless to waste your time on it if you can't suspend your disbelief for an hour every week.

Not looking to nitpick, was actually trying to like the show. but the flaws in this thing are pretty blatant. Maybe you're right though, maybe I need to do what the one review said and just check my brain at the door at 9 PM every Monday

 

[BlackLantern]

numbers from last night show that it dropped 31 percent from last week

 

[Dr Lee]

ouch.... Dammit... another show on it's way out...

Dunno why i bother getting into new shows anymore... they all get ****ed over

 

[wiegeabo]

Well, premiering a show on a night other than it's going to air isn't a very good idea. Maybe if they had done it like 24 where part 1 was Sunday and part 2 was Monday, to get people used to it's normal night...

 

[mr. peasant]

Uh, the guy's a total psychopath with a masked alter-ego that allows him to carry out his ruthless/dirty deeds. Isn't this what villains with evil goals do? Don't they do whatever it takes to make sure they succeed, including eliminating competition (and superheroes)? Killing one of the few people willing to stand up to Chess takes him "closer to his goal" of taking over the prisons. What further explanation/exposition do you need? Do you need Chess to sit in front of the camera and explain his feelings/inner motivation to the audience? Seems like you're really reaching here.

But is he doing it out of spite or as part of a calculated move? Why hire a foreign assassin who specialises in poisons instead of a straightforward hitman or even just use his own men to make it happen (we've seen he has dirty cops willing to do his work such as framing and making sure Faraday gets killed off)? Why try only once and never again after said attempt fail? We have a lot of questions; any one of which would shed light and provide a foundation to help explain the rest.

He smuggles weapons and associates with crazed criminals BECAUSE HE CAN AND HE IS EVIL. Hence why Peter Flemmning has the alter-ego of Chess, which allows him to carry out these deeds. On one hand, Peter Flemming is the most powerful and ruthless man in Palm City, but he at least pretends to care about the well-being of the people and he acts as if he is working to protect the city. On the the hand, Chess is part of the reason Flemming has become so powerful, because this persona can openly get his hands dirty. Plus, Flemming framed Vince as Chess, essentially erasing any chance of being uncovered.

Chess is the big baddie this season. He won't be at the center of every episode, but his prescence will be felt and his character he obviously become more developed as the season continues. We will see more of his motivations and thought process. I know it's a friggin cheesy comic book show, but these things aren't hard to grasp.

You're thinking of Peter Fleming and Chess as one person. Yes, they technically are, but in many ways, Peter Fleming is using Chess to further his goals. Chess is setting the chaos [the weapons smuggling] that Peter then "fixes" with his private police force, therefore ingraining himself deeper as a "solution" to crime in the city. Considering Peter is literally in charge of the police force in the city, it's fairly easy for him to separate himself from the Chess persona, especially to the public.

*EDIT: This is why it was so perfect for Peter to setup Faraday as Chess. Being the one that "captured and eliminated" the notorious criminal made him look more competent than the city's existing PD, which is what eventually put him over the top as far as taking over law enforcement of the city.*

As far as killing the prisons head, Ark was practically set to take over the prison system for the city(/state?) as well, if it wasn't for the head guy's dissent.

Most of that is pure speculation and guesswork. Is it right or is it wrong? It doesn't matter since it's not being made clear. My problem is not with the concept of the character or what he does but the show's portrayal of his actions. Right now, he's just a 'bad guy' doing 'bad things' because he's the 'bad guy' and not a character with understandable motivations. We don't know if he's steadily working towards a long term goal or if he is the kind of person who makes snap reprisals against his enemies. If his motives are supposed to be mysterious, the show to reference the fact. At the moment, he's just overall underwhelming.

Compare him to HRG in Season 1 Heroes. When he was first introduced and set up as a villain, we didn't really know what he was after either. However, neither did the other characters; which told us, the audience, that we aren't meant to know either. Alternatively, look at Xanatos from Gargoyles; whenever he does anything villainous, the show makes it a point to show why he's doing it in relation to his personality. Or The Dark Knight; whose seemingly random actions were discussed and speculated that perhaps he really didn't have a motivation and was in it for senseless violence.

The point I'm trying to make is that shows with good villains spend time developing his villainy. The Cape, at the moment, have essentially said 'Chess/Fleming is evil' and ran with it without going into much detail or hint that it's a plotline that's to be developed over time.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Most of that is pure speculation and guesswork. Is it right or is it wrong? It doesn't matter since it's not being made clear.

Are you serious?

Look, I'm keeping myself from getting into pejoratives here, but C'MON man. Your cranial density is in question here.

I don't think the show can be any more straightforward about how Fleming is playing his private LE agency against Chess's [real or imagined] exploits without actually putting out comic-like thought bubbles describing exactly what he's doing.

Look, I'm not particularly fond of this show. But you're making something so very simple complicated. This is mindless, comic-book fare. I read both long-reaching fantasy and sci-fi novels and comic books as a kid. I don't know what imaginary pedestal you've put classic comic book stories on, but trust me, most of the popular "establishment" ones were FAR from being intellectual masterpieces.

 

[kguillou]

Lol, you know whats funny, i was just over at ign.com and i read their review for the latest episode. The reviewer gave it a 4.0/10 (which i think is accurate), and almost everybody in the comments section were up in arms about the score. Suddenly, the Cape is the best thing on tv according to those people. Its sad because i'm hearing a lot of people make excuses for the show, "what were you expecting, the Dark Knight??" or "Well of COURSE the show's gonna be bad for the first few episodes" or " At least its better than reality tv" etc etc etc. I mean if people have to clutch to such straws in order to defend the show then somethings wrong..

For anybody interested: http://tv.ign.com/articles/114/1144478p1.html

 

[carrrnuttt]

Lol, you know whats funny, i was just over at ign.com and i read their review for the latest episode. The reviewer gave it a 4.0/10 (which i think is accurate), and almost everybody in the comments section were up in arms about the score. Suddenly, the Cape is the best thing on tv according to those people. Its sad because i'm hearing a lot of people make excuses for the show, "what were you expecting, the Dark Knight??" or "Well of COURSE the show's gonna be bad for the first few episodes" or " At least its better than reality tv" etc etc etc. I mean if people have to clutch to such straws in order to defend the show then somethings wrong..

For anybody interested: http://tv.ign.com/articles/114/1144478p1.html

There is nothing in that review I disagree with. At least he didn't play stupid with an obvious aspect of the show in order to find a bone to bite on. There's so many other flaws in this show that there's really no need to do that.

 

[mr. peasant]

Are you serious?

Look, I'm keeping myself from getting into pejoratives here, but C'MON man. Your cranial density is in question here.

I don't think the show can be any more straightforward about how Fleming is playing his private LE agency against Chess's [real or imagined] exploits without actually putting out comic-like thought bubbles describing exactly what he's doing.

I actually disagree with that assessment. We've seen nothing to indicate that. For instance, he didn't send cops in to bust Scales (which is thus far the only aspect of his organisation that we've seen). Rather, I think it's more likely that Fleming/Chess is using his control of the police to allow his criminal activities to go ignored/undetected. That's why he's so determined to capture 'Orwell' since 'Orwell' keeps exposing his activities.

Look, I'm not particularly fond of this show. But you're making something so very simple complicated. This is mindless, comic-book fare. I read both long-reaching fantasy and sci-fi novels and comic books as a kid. I don't know what imaginary pedestal you've put classic comic book stories on, but trust me, most of the popular "establishment" ones were FAR from being intellectual masterpieces.

I'm not comparing it with comics; primarily because it's not one. Rather, I'm comparing it with other story-based, non-procedural serials where the plot progresses and develops over the course of the season as well as trying to imagine what the show could be based on its concept and the characters it's produced. Thus far, after three episodes, we haven't really seen much development from Chess' side; leaving him a boring, undeveloped villain.

Ironically, while you're not fond of the show, I actually like the show and hope it succeeds. I just feel some things can and need to be improved upon - specifically that its scriptwriters need to spruce up their writing and put more thought into the characters such as where their development is going, etc (as opposed to simply having them do things on screen). I harp on Chess because he has the most potential improvement and could easily be the most interesting character in the show. Well, second if they opt to develop Dorian Missick's character (Faraday's best friend who betrayed him and seems to be being coerced into helping Fleming).

 

[kguillou]

Farraday's friend is perplexing me, it seems like he's being coerced but at the same time he doesnt seem at all remorseful for what he's doing to his supposed "friend". I wonder whats the story behind that.

 

[Docker2.0]

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[Doc Ock]

I've really enjoyed the three episodes of The Cape we have gotten so far! Summer Glau is awesome to have in a superhero show. But I don't think this well be a fitting replacement in Heroes in my eyes.

But regardless I'm just happy to have another superhero show on the air! Hope it gets at least a second season.

 

[kane9321]

im loving this show...its good stuff

 

[wiegeabo]

While I'm not loving the Cape yet, I do like it.

If for no other reason than we got a good villain, and a bit more backstory, I really enjoyed the latest episode and thought it was better than the prior two. Remember, it wasn't a two hour pilot. It was episodes 1 and 2. So, if you felt the first hour was rushed, it's because that was the real pilot. And I think it could have benefited greatly from having a full 2 hour pilot.

 

[squeekness]

numbers from last night show that it dropped 31 percent from last week

I'm not surprised. The second episode did nothing to encourage me to continue. Sorry to those who like this, but I thought it was just outright horrible and I'm all done with the show now.

 

[BlackLantern]

you can do 'over the top' and do it well....look at Human Target or Leverage, they do over the top but make it work

why can't this show make it work?

 

[kguillou]

Human Target looks like its getting canceled though...

 

[BlackLantern]

it got 2 seasons so I wouldnt be all that broken up

Leverage is going strong and TNT has renewed it for at least 2 more seasons

 

[GhostPoet]

So...we can pretty much get our shovels and start digging a hole for The Cape I guess.

 

[BlackLantern]

yup

 

[O'Haire]

I watched this after Chuck on Monday.

The main actor really sucks. He's so wooden.

I'm sure it would of been a bit more bearable if they had cast someone that had some charisma.