The Cape

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Wouldn't this also likely be a contributing factor as to why Smallville has lasted so long?



These are some very strong claims you keep repeating and yet, I still see no evidence. You can't just keep repeating things and expect others to be convinced when not the first time round.

Going back to how big an influence having a previous fanbase is to a superhero-style show's success, shows like Buffy, Charmed and The 4400 seem to suggest that you don't need to have a built-in fanbase in order to get a show off the ground. And if you explore non-primetime dramas, shows like Avatar, Power Rangers (during its heyday, most Americans hadn't heard of, let alone watched, a Super Sentai show) and most action-based anime provide further evidence. As for staying power, this has even less to do with its original source material and more to do with the overall quality of the show and the audience's drive to return week after week.
All these shows you metion aside from Charmed and 4400 had a cult following before had. Buffy worked because the movie is a cult hit much like The Rocketeer so people knew and remember Buffy and stay loyal to it even after the show ent off the air it was continued through the comics up until this month. Power Rangers much like DBZ had a cult following from its shows in Japan and not to mention it had cool toys for kids which also helped its success. Avatar benefited from the success of DBZ and Toonami programs which helped it become what it is. The 4400 flat out was just a get show and was on a network that dealt with Sci-Fi stuff. Remember USA owns the Sci-Fi channel so the 4400 was right at home there. The only TV show that had to find its place was Charmed and that show found its way once they moved to TNT and start putting out books and comics related to the show and had the women start dressing hotter than before. I am not saying Smallville isn't a good show because I think it is (if you look at it as an elseworld Superman story) what I am saying is take away any connection to Superman (names, places, and the other heroes) and just write the story as it is but not have it dealing with Superman it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. The big thing that carries Smallville is the pay off in the end without that it would have been seen much like how the cape is being seen. Just a regualr super-hero show with poor writing, poor acting (because Lex, Lionel, and the Kents acting saved the show early on), dry underwhelming action scenes, and a slow plot. That's actually what Smallville was when it started it got better in the last 3 seasons but before then it wouldn't have made it past season 3 without it carrying the Superman name and people wanting to see Lex's fall, Lois show up, Clark's first flight, and Superman but take away all those elements and you had The Cape.
 
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The big thing that carries Smallville is the pay off in the end without that it would have been seen much like how the cape is being seen.

Exactly. The draw of this show is that they promise things...at first it was that Clark and Lana might get together, then its was Clark and Lois or him putting on the Supersuit and flying away.
I used to watch the show but got tired of the constant tease that the show puts you in. They teased him flying more than Marvel teases the return of Jean Grey.
 
I hope you get your wish but to be honest everything in my gut tells me it will be something like the reflection in the Daily Planet globe
 
I hope you get your wish but to be honest everything in my gut tells me it will be something like the reflection in the Daily Planet globe
It kind of reminds me like how for the 200th episode they said they would be dealing with and you get to see future Clark and Superman. Then when the moment came you saw future Clark for no less than 2 minutes and a red and blue blur now known as Superman.
 
SO ANYWAY, for those of us who remember there's a whole forum dedicated to Smallville: When do you think we're gonna get some insight into Orwell? I really want them to reveal that she's Chess' daughter so that it's out in the open and can actually be used as a subplot. And was anyone else kind of dismayed that Chess was all, "She's my daughter, I'd recognize her," in the previous episode but then totally didn't in last week's when Orwell was drawing all kinds of attention to herself by questioning his policies right in front of him on the train? Yeah, she had a mask, but still... Granted, maybe Chess hasn't seen her in a few years and she looks a bit different from how he remembers her.
 
SO ANYWAY, for those of us who remember there's a whole forum dedicated to Smallville: When do you think we're gonna get some insight into Orwell? I really want them to reveal that she's Chess' daughter so that it's out in the open and can actually be used as a subplot. And was anyone else kind of dismayed that Chess was all, "She's my daughter, I'd recognize her," in the previous episode but then totally didn't in last week's when Orwell was drawing all kinds of attention to herself by questioning his policies right in front of him on the train? Yeah, she had a mask, but still... Granted, maybe Chess hasn't seen her in a few years and she looks a bit different from how he remembers her.

im scared to go in the Smallville boards...ppl get killed in there for merely mentioning Routh
 
All these shows you metion aside from Charmed and 4400 had a cult following before had. Buffy worked because the movie is a cult hit much like The Rocketeer so people knew and remember Buffy and stay loyal to it even after the show ent off the air it was continued through the comics up until this month. Power Rangers much like DBZ had a cult following from its shows in Japan and not to mention it had cool toys for kids which also helped its success. Avatar benefited from the success of DBZ and Toonami programs which helped it become what it is.

How did Charmed and 4400 have a following before they started? The Buffy movie was generally disliked by most with only a small following; nowhere near the numbers the series generated. Likewise, Power Rangers was what introduced the Sentai series to the U.S.. This was a time before online streaming and at the time, the various Sentai series were not being distributed there. How is it, that kids, who were the core demographic and the majority of the audience, got a hold of them or even knew about them before Power Rangers started? And you say Avatar benefited from the anime genre; wouldn't the same logic then suggest that The Cape, and all superhero shows in general, all benefit from fans of the genre? Everything else you said after what I quoted shows that deriving a show from an established franchise is not a necessity for a superhero-esque show to succeed - writing, good pay-off, fan service, consistency and giving what the audience want are all far more important factors, and are capable of offsetting the disadvantage of not having an existing fanbase from the get go.

In short, having a fanbase before starting = good/advantage but not having one =/= doom.

I think we can both agree to that?


SO ANYWAY, for those of us who remember there's a whole forum dedicated to Smallville: When do you think we're gonna get some insight into Orwell? I really want them to reveal that she's Chess' daughter so that it's out in the open and can actually be used as a subplot. And was anyone else kind of dismayed that Chess was all, "She's my daughter, I'd recognize her," in the previous episode but then totally didn't in last week's when Orwell was drawing all kinds of attention to herself by questioning his policies right in front of him on the train? Yeah, she had a mask, but still... Granted, maybe Chess hasn't seen her in a few years and she looks a bit different from how he remembers her.

Or maybe, those hints being dropped of Orwell being Chess/Fleming's daughter are simply red herrings? :D

Regarding him having not seen her for a long time, it's possible. If Fleming is Orwell's father, there must be a mother somewhere in the equation. Yet, we've seen no hint that he's currently married. Perhaps they're divorced and Orwell went with the mother. Or maybe it was a one night stand and he didn't find out until much later. Either way, the key point is that he didn't have custody and only watched her from afar. Then, she completely dropped off the radar some time before the show started - hence why he's trying to track her.
 
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or the fact that he hasnt seen her since she was little maybe and doesnt know what she looks like grown up
 
That's what I meant when I suggested he hadn't seen her in a while. I was talking years.

As for the mother, how much you want to bet Chess killed her? Maybe not intentionally, even. Maybe he accidentally killed her and that set him on his supervillainous path.
 
That's what I meant when I suggested he hadn't seen her in a while. I was talking years.

As for the mother, how much you want to bet Chess killed her? Maybe not intentionally, even. Maybe he accidentally killed her and that set him on his supervillainous path.

Only to be revealed alive and well in season two; as Texas Hold 'Em - leader of Tarot. :D
 
Or that she is the white chess piece themed since Chess seems to be black piece themed
 
maybe she is Checkers his arch rival
 
Super villain name checkers can't be worse than some of the names Mark Milar has.come up with.
 
Have Angelina Jolie guest star as Salt & Salt's evil twin can be Pepper
 
Just saw the fourth episode. I'm pretty much watching the show on a one-week delay now, unintentionally. Anyway, IMO this episode started out with some of the best stuff that this series has done so far (not very hard), before sinking under the weight of bad writing.

I'm glad that they didn't introduce yet another villain, and decided to expand upon the two from the premiere. The idea of The Cape using Fleming's dirty dealing to create a rift between him and Scales was cool. It was good to see the hero with an actual objective and mission. But I have to agree with the person who said that The Cape just comes across like Vince Faraday in a mask. He had no presence or sense of power in that scene when he was revealing Fleming's secrets to Scales.

I also liked the family side plot. I thought they did a good job of integrating Dana's coworker Travis into the show. It was nice to see him trying to get on the son's good side (and inside the apartment), and funny how he was left out in the hallway with nothing but a Fruit Rollup after thinking that he had just turned the corner.

The "Carnival of Crime" was back to its old habits again, after it seemed like their criminal background was being swept under the rug in the previous episode. I'm divided about how this was done. I hated it when this subplot began, because the idea of the superhero fighting his own stupid friends, whose criminal tendencies shouldn't have tolerated this long to begin with, just seemed so lame to me. It felt like a distraction from the real villains.

And if Vince and Max were still buddy-buddy after this episode...thank God the ending seemed to show some actual emnity developing between the two of them. Suddenly we have an actual story. The "superhero" now looks less like a chump who's seemingly oblivious to his buddies' criminal activity, and more like someone who has to struggle with the inner conflict of whether or not to take down his "friends." Now they need to keep developing this and take Vince and Max toward an eventual showdown. If Vince just hangs out with the carnies again next episode, then all of this will look REALLY stupid.

So Scales tries to take advantage of Fleming's secret and get himself a nice fat business deal with the mayor. And boy does he screw it up. I'm sorry, but Scales just sucks. Despite beating The Cape in the premiere (and again in this episode), his physical threat is undermined by the fact that he got taken down by the damn midget. And here in this episode, we see that Scales doesn't have much in the way of brains either. Very shortly after the mayor showed a distaste for his dirty deal, Scales just loses his cool and starts making a total jackass out of himself. Oh yeah, that will sure win him over.

The fight on top of the train had a nice concept. With the wind blowing hard against him, Vince wouldn't be able to swing his cape. That's a neat idea, and gives us the chance to see the hero prove himself without the use of his signature weapon. But the visual effects were poor, the choreography subpar, and once again Vince got owned. I'm still waiting for this guy to show me that he's a superhero.

It was around that point when I really started to feel that this episode was too bloated. It seemed like the various plotlines were all fighting for attention, without any one of them really winning out. Was this episode about Scales and Chess starting a gang war? Vince trying to use that to clear his name? The Carnival's big heist? The train suddenly becoming a runaway all of a sudden late in the episode?

I don't know why Orwell felt the need to draw Fleming's attention, after initially looking like she didn't want to be noticed.

Chess didn't seem all that smart either. The guy has a gun when he gets the jump on Scales and his henchman. Why not just SHOOT them right there? Scales had already revealed himself to be a criminal; Fleming could just say that he killed Scales in self defense. He owns the cops anyway. But no, he gives Scales the chance to take a gun out of his henchman's hand, so that the two could have their big villainous face off with promises of future conflict. A face off is cool. Just set it up right.

I also didn't buy the idea of Fleming being the ONLY person who The Cape could hang out the side of the train in order to save everyone on it.

Did I mention that Scales sucks? He gets caged by the Carnival, and just loses his head (almost literally) by comically pounding it against the metal bars like some damn doofus. He looked like a total clown without any intelligence or self control. But after embarrassing himself for far too long, the cage suddenly breaks! Then Scales (bloody forehead and all) gets to kill some no-name henchman of Chess's. Too little too late. Also didn't change the fact that if Scales could smash the cage open with his head, he probably could have done it better (and safer) with his BODY.

Not as bad as the premiere, but this episode really screwed things up. Disappointing, after "Kozmo" looked like such a step in the right direction.
 
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So Chess is alternate personality of Fleming?

I'm still waiting for this guy to show me that he's a superhero.

I think the point is to show him as a rookie...making mistakes...getting owned
 
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Actually I think that's just been confirmed. Fleming was in his office and the next moment, he's Chess again.
 
Actually I think that's just been confirmed. Fleming was in his office and the next moment, he's Chess again.

the way it was shot made it seem like MPD.....like Norman Osborne and Green Goblin
 

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