The Clinton Thread

[Marx]

In regards to the other part of your response that I just quoted, TheMarx, I agree, but the VP slot has never been an absolute guarantee to bring votes in. Both of them are fairly inexperienced (well in comparison to McCain) Senators from blue states. There are better choices to balance out his ticket in my opinion. Preferably someone from a swing state, and someone that can help him with blue collar workers, and Hispanics. Someone with more experience than Clinton, and preferably not a Senator.

I guess I'm saying I really want Bill Richardson. I still think he evens out the ticket perfectly. He doesn't overshadow Obama like Clinton potentially might, and he's got a ton of experience. His only downside is the possibility of a certain sect of people not going for the double-minority ticket, but the same could be said about an Obama/Clinton ticket. And if Hillary and Bill both campaign hard for Obama, hopefully they can heal some wounds in the Democratic Party, and get a lot of Hillary supporters on the fence to realize Obama is worth their vote. Personally, I think she deserves a spot somewhere in his cabinet. It may even be a smart move on Obama's part to announce his plans for Clinton when he announces his VP choice, to alleviate a lot of her supporters' fears that her voice wont be heard.

When are cabinet positions usually announced? It seems like they are generally announced after the candidate wins the Presidency, but would it be a stupid move on Obama's part to announce who he'd assign to his cabinet at the convention? If he manages to get an amazing group of politicians in his cabinet it may get him some votes from people currently concerned with his experience.

I just don't see Richardson having that kind of pull. I think alot of people overestimate him. As for the cabinet positions, as far as I know they aren't announced until after the election.

The older folks, yes and I'd say the women voting block but he can get the latter by himself given enough time.

He can make up for older voters by pulling in the independents and the Republicans.

That's a trait Hillary lacks. She can't appeal to them at all, plus she has the negative of being a polarizing figure in the Republican party, which will get them energized to vote instead of staying home, and the Democratic party. She was polarizing to the Dems before the primaries and she's a hundred times that now with her "scorched Earth" campaign.




Which is one Clinton to many.

Hillary has the support of half the party. A rather large and important part of the party. You cannot ignore the older and blue collar vote. To stake your presidency on the backs of younger voters and new voters (who don't typically show up for a general election) is not something that I would do. And I know everyone is going to respond...but this time is different!

And how many times have we heard that? Entirely too many.

 

[souvlaki]

I just don't see Richardson having that kind of pull. I think alot of people overestimate him. As for the cabinet positions, as far as I know they aren't announced until after the election.

Well, to play devil's advocate here, what states could Clinton get Obama if she were to be his VP? Maybe Arkansas (possibly a long shot, but the Clintons' have a long history in that state), might push Obama over the top in Missouri and New Jersey, and guarantee New York (which was always a guarantee anyhow). I suppose she might even push him over in Ohio, Michigan and Florida, but traditionally people don't vote for the #2 slot, so any states outside her home state (which one?) are not really a guarantee. But this is a weird election. I suppose if the purpose is to help push Obama over the top in key states, she may be a beneficial VP choice, but there are a lot of negatives that come with having her as VP as well. Plus, it really is a step down for her. It's hard for me to imagine her in a VP role.

 

[The Major]

Hillary has the support of half the part. A rather large and important part of the party.

Yes, Hilary does have a large base in the party. I'm sure most of them will gladly vote for him over McCain in the general election.

Obama isn't stupid enough not to do some things which will appeal to what they wanted from Hilary any way.

You cannot ignore the older and blue collar vote.

He doesn't need to ignore them.

Like with the women he can bargain with them. They'll be harder to get on board but he could definitely get a lot of them on his side.

To stake your presidency on the backs of younger voters and new voters (who don't typically show up for a general election) is not something that I would do. And I know everyone is going to respond...but this time is different!

And how many times have we heard that? Entirely too many.

I never mentioned the younger voters. I said he can make up for some of the older voters by appealing to the indepedents and Republicans. Some of which are young, but not all of them.

Now you mention it I'd consider it a strength that Obama can bring in the younger voters. Which would be another voting block Hilary can't touch. It's not something to totally rely on it's merely more supports he can bring in on election day.

Obama can do all this while depending on the majority of the Democratic party.

 

[souvlaki]

I never mentioned the younger voters. I said he can make up for some of the older voters by appealing to the indepedents and Republicans. Some of which are young, but not all of them.

See, while I think it would be stupid to count on the young vote, I think people are understating the potential of Obama running. I don't get why people assume young people would vote in larger numbers than normal in the primary, and then just forget to vote in November. If Obama can mobilize the young vote, and actually get them to the polls, he could win the election quite easily. It would be a first, but he has managed to pull out the vote in the primaries with certain demographics that don't usually vote in large numbers. I wouldn't put it past Obama to get young people out to vote in stronger numbers than any other candidate in the past.

 

[souvlaki]

And before anyone mentions the obvious, yes, I know young people don't typically vote in the General... but is there really a history of young people voting in large numbers in the primary, and then not voting in the general? Honest question, as I don't know the real statistics. From personal experience, the only candidate in my voting lifetime that I remember young people really rallying behind was Howard Dean, but given that he never made it past the primary, it doesn't shock me young people were not very energized to vote in 2004. I mean, what about John Kerry was there to be excited about? In 2000, when I actually was a young voter, I don't remember anyone my age being particularly enthusiastic about Gore either.

 

[Marx]

Well, to play devil's advocate here, what states could Clinton get Obama if she were to be his VP? Maybe Arkansas (possibly a long shot, but the Clintons' have a long history in that state), might push Obama over the top in Missouri and New Jersey, and guarantee New York (which was always a guarantee anyhow). I suppose she might even push him over in Ohio, Michigan and Florida, but traditionally people don't vote for the #2 slot, so any states outside her home state (which one?) are not really a guarantee. But this is a weird election. I suppose if the purpose is to help push Obama over the top in key states, she may be a beneficial VP choice, but there are a lot of negatives that come with having her as VP as well. Plus, it really is a step down for her. It's hard for me to imagine her in a VP role.

An Obama/Clinton ticket would do well here in Ohio. I would dare say that it would win Michigan and Florida as well. Arkansas could turn as well, that's really a toss up in my mind. Step down or not, if it's what the party needs to win, she will be the VP.

And before anyone mentions the obvious, yes, I know young people don't typically vote in the General... but is there really a history of young people voting in large numbers in the primary, and then not voting in the general? Honest question, as I don't know the real statistics. From personal experience, the only candidate in my voting lifetime that I remember young people really rallying behind was Howard Dean, but given that he never made it past the primary, it doesn't shock me young people were not very energized to vote in 2004. I mean, what about John Kerry was there to be excited about? In 2000, when I actually was a young voter, I don't remember anyone my age being particularly enthusiastic about Gore either.

Do you remember the infamous "Rock the Vote" campaign in 2004? It was one of the largest get out the votes campaigns for younger voters and it failed miserably. Everyone always says "but this time is different."

It kind of reminds me of that losing sports team that has the die-hard fans that always say this is the year!

 

[The Major]

An Obama/Clinton ticket would do well here in Ohio. I would dare say that it would win Michigan and Florida as well. Arkansas could turn as well, that's really a toss up in my mind. Step down or not, if it's what the party needs to win, she will be the VP.

Hilary's negatives would overwhelm or cancel out Obama's positives.

She's going to turn off a decent amount of Democratic voters, not enough to harm the majority of course but that will make it easier for McCain since it would be weaker in strength.

The young voters would be less inclined to participate as they would have been with someone else as VP, McCain could go after Obama's message of change since Hilary is on the ticket, independents and Republicans would be less likely to cross over to the Democrats with her there, any infighting Hilary has with Obama during the campaign would be fresh meat for the press and McCain, Bill Clinton will constantly get in headlines which could diminish Obama's image by association by either upstaging or any scandals from the past or present, the G.O.P will be able to use all the material on Hilary that they've spent years making allowing them to hurt Obama via hurting Hilary and the Republican party will unify around hating Hilary in record time so they'd be getting more votes then without her presence.

The race would be that much harder for Obama to win when it really doesn't need to be.

Do you remember the infamous "Rock the Vote" campaign in 2004? It was one of the largest get out the votes campaigns for younger voters and it failed miserably. Everyone always says "but this time is different."

It kind of reminds me of that losing sports team that has the die-hard fans that always say this is the year!

Wasn't that a record breaking election voting year?

 

[Spider-Bite]

An Obama/Clinton ticket would do well here in Ohio. I would dare say that it would win Michigan and Florida as well. Arkansas could turn as well, that's really a toss up in my mind. Step down or not, if it's what the party needs to win, she will be the VP.

It depends on negotiations between Obama and Hillary go. Will she do what is necessary? will she be gracoius? Will Bill turn over his financial records, so we don't have to worry about a scandal erupting a month before the election?

Plus there is the fact that Hillary's female supporters will balk at McCain's promise to send pro-life judges to the bench. They claim they will vote for McCain now, but most of them will come back.

Do you remember the infamous "Rock the Vote" campaign in 2004? It was one of the largest get out the votes campaigns for younger voters and it failed miserably. Everyone always says "but this time is different."

It kind of reminds me of that losing sports team that has the die-hard fans that always say this is the year!

the youth vote did come out in larger numbers than previous elections for John Kerry. and this election is different, because the campaign is different. Obama would have lost if not for the youth vote. They turned up for him. At my college, the vast majority of the students I knew, voted. It's not a matter of "but this time is different" because it's already turned out different.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Hilary's negatives would overwhelm or cancel out Obama's positives.

She's going to turn off a decent amount of Democratic voters, not enough to harm the majority of course but that will make it easier for McCain since it would be weaker in strength.

Not a single Obama supporter would turn on him because of his VP choice. They just wont, becaue Obama is still the nominee, and they support him.

The young voters would be less inclined to participate as they would have been with someone else as VP, McCain could go after Obama's message of change since Hilary is on the ticket, independents and Republicans would be less likely to cross over to the Democrats with her there, any infighting Hilary has with Obama during the campaign would be fresh meat for the press and McCain, Bill Clinton will constantly get in headlines which could diminish Obama's image by association by either upstaging or any scandals from the past or present, the G.O.P will be able to use all the material on Hilary that they've spent years making allowing them to hurt Obama via hurting Hilary and the Republican party will unify around hating Hilary in record time so they'd be getting more votes then without her presence.

The race would be that much harder for Obama to win when it really doesn't need to be.


Wasn't that a record breaking election voting year?

Obama has a message of bringing people together, and putting Hillary on the ticket, could reinforce that message. He's starting by uniting his own party, and bringing his supporters and her supporters together. Then he can move on to the general election. He will crossparty lines and work with repulibcans when he can. I could honestly see him offering McCain a cabinet position. I'm pretty sure he already made the offer, early on in the primary season. If McCain takes it, after the election, and that is feasible, as McCain is also willing to reach out, that will help Obama, after the election, gain the trust and support of Republicans and Independants.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Obama has a message of bringing people together, and putting Hillary on the ticket, could reinforce that message. He's starting by uniting his own party, and bringing his supporters and her supporters together. Then he can move on to the general election. He will crossparty lines and work with repulibcans when he can. I could honestly see him offering McCain a cabinet position. I'm pretty sure he already made the offer, early on in the primary season. If McCain takes it, after the election, and that is feasible, as McCain is also willing to reach out, that will help Obama, after the election, gain the trust and support of Republicans and Independants.

No way. Baracka is supposed to bring balance to the White House, not destroy it.

 

[The Senator]

Hoping that the youth vote will decide the election is one of the dumbest things a campaign can do. If Obama thinks he will win based on the youth vote alone, he'd better start writing his concession speech.

 

[Chris B]

Obama should go with a Hillary supporter to be his running mate. Someone who comes from that wing of the Party, but doesn't have the baggage Hillary would bring.

 

[Darthphere]

Obama has a message of bringing people together, and putting Hillary on the ticket, could reinforce that message. He's starting by uniting his own party, and bringing his supporters and her supporters together. Then he can move on to the general election. He will crossparty lines and work with repulibcans when he can. I could honestly see him offering McCain a cabinet position. I'm pretty sure he already made the offer, early on in the primary season. If McCain takes it, after the election, and that is feasible, as McCain is also willing to reach out, that will help Obama, after the election, gain the trust and support of Republicans and Independants.

The only message it would send is "Oh snap, I can't win without her."

 

[Excel]

Well, it looks just about over.

 

[Darthphere]

Well, it looks just about over.

 

[Excel]

Does this thread get locked she says Im out??

 

[The Senator]

She's only suspending her campaign, plus she can become his running mate... I say it stays open until the convention.

 

[Matt]

I see no reason to lock it at all. If it becomes irrelevant, it will die a natural death. If people still want to discuss Hillary Clinton, they have a place to.

 

[Malice]

Na Na NA Na
Na Na Na Na
Hey Hey Hey...
Goodbye!

 

[Spider-Bite]

I don't believe that no good deed goes unpunished. She gave a good speech today, endorsing Obama. And I appreciate it. Regardless of a politician's motives, when they do what we want them to do, we should show them support and praise. If she continues to help Obama I will give her a positive rating.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Hoping that the youth vote will decide the election is one of the dumbest things a campaign can do. If Obama thinks he will win based on the youth vote alone, he'd better start writing his concession speech.

Neither him nor anybody else said he could win with the youth vote alone. that post was kind of pointless.

 

[The Senator]

Neither him nor anybody else said he could win with the youth vote alone. that post was kind of pointless.

Then let me rephrase by stating that if Obama thinks the youth vote will make up for the blue collar voters he has lost in the past five months, he should start writing his concession speech...

 

[Matt]

Neither him nor anybody else said he could win with the youth vote alone. that post was kind of pointless.

Donna Brazille, a high ranking Democrat has suggested that the youth, minority, and "elitist" baby boomer vote alone will win Obama this election. A very naive stance being as those three demographics vote in the smallest numbers historically.

 

[Marx]

Then let me rephrase by stating that if Obama thinks the youth vote will make up for the blue collar voters he has lost in the past five months, he should start writing his concession speech...

Donna Brazille, a high ranking Democrat has suggested that the youth, minority, and "elitist" baby boomer vote alone will win Obama this election. A very naive stance being as those three demographics vote in the smallest numbers historically.

My thoughts exactly. It is completely ignorant to stake the success of your campaign on the backs of the smallest voting blocs in the party and believe that that will make up for losing the single largest most loyal voting bloc in the general election because you have the support of inconsistent voters...

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Donna Brazille, a high ranking Democrat has suggested that the youth, minority, and "elitist" baby boomer vote alone will win Obama this election. A very naive stance being as those three demographics vote in the smallest numbers historically.

Not necessarily. There is some truth to her statement.

And Donna is no joke. Not only is she a superdelegate, but she's a heavyweight who knows the inner workings of the party. But I agree that Obama will need more than that.