The Clinton Thread

[Spider-Bite]

HIllary supported the Iraq war when it was popular and opposed it, when it wasn't. Instead of supporting negotiations with Iran, and Cuba, as Obama does, just a few weeks ago she threatened to obliterate Iran. the ball has been rolling for war on both sides for some time now, and hillary would not have reached out and made an effort to stop that ball, or even slow it's momentum. She is only offering Iran's president, points to make in his argument that we are determined to destroy them.

 

[Downhere]

that's the only reason I want her as VP, because she created voters like you who become more committed to the candidate than the party. There are no qualities you have seen in Hillary that weren't there in Obama. If you want things done that Hillary promised to do, than the only way they are getting done is if Obama is elected. Remember Obama is a democrat, just like Hillary, with the same positions on the issues.

There is only one policy, difference between them. Obama will do what is necessary to prevent another Iraq debacle, and HIllary wont, just as she did not before.

Well, frankly, I usually lean republican rather than democrat. I'm not a fan of McCain and think he's a bit too hot headed to be president, and I'm not a fan of Obama. Hillary is passable between the three which is why I would have went her way if she would have gotten the nomination. Honestly, the candidates we have I really don't care for.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Clinton is an awful choice for the VP slott and she isn't entitled to anything if you ask me.

 

[bunk]

I don't see her getting the VP spot. I just don't believe either of them can just forget everything that went down. Of course I also predicted Clinton would get the nomination, so what do I know.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=13002024&postcount=168

I got McCain though, I guess that's something.

 

[Chris B]

The only demographic that I think Hillary would help Obama with are women. I don't think blue-collar workers are all that dedicated to her, with most of their support coming from the lack of a better alternative. Largely due to John Edwards being written off by the media. And I believe that most women who vote Democratic will vote for Obama in the end.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Well, frankly, I usually lean republican rather than democrat. I'm not a fan of McCain and think he's a bit too hot headed to be president, and I'm not a fan of Obama. Hillary is passable between the three which is why I would have went her way if she would have gotten the nomination. Honestly, the candidates we have I really don't care for.

what did you like about hillary that you did not like about Obama? that's what I'd like all of her supporters who wont vote for Obama to answer.

 

[UltimateJustin]

I sometimes use commas as a way to intimidate people and get them to fall, in line.

Being pro-change and anti-same, I've always been an Obama supporter and what Hillary is doing is confusing me or should I say worrying me. I think she may be planning an attack.

 

[Marx]

that's the only reason I want her as VP, because she created voters like you who become more committed to the candidate than the party. There are no qualities you have seen in Hillary that weren't there in Obama. If you want things done that Hillary promised to do, than the only way they are getting done is if Obama is elected. Remember Obama is a democrat, just like Hillary, with the same positions on the issues.

There is only one policy, difference between them. Obama will do what is necessary to prevent another Iraq debacle, and HIllary wont, just as she did not before.

It's never wise to blindly follow a single party Spider. You cannot fault someone for wanting to follow a candidate instead of a party.

 

[souvlaki]

Well, if Clinton would be the VP, I'd actually consider going out and voting for Obama. But, as of now I don't plan on voting for either side as Obama and McCain just don't do much for me. So, I think Obama would have a better chance of winning with Clinton as his VP.

Why VP though? She's essentially useless in that role. And it's not the type of role I think Clinton is even interested in anyhow. I'd rather like in his cabinet as Secretary of Health or something. Somewhere where she can make a huge difference, and something fitting to her strengths as a candidate. If he assigns capable people to his cabinet, then in my opinion he'll be fine. Him are Hillary are practically the same policy wise so don't completely write off Obama if you really liked Clinton that much.

 

[souvlaki]

It's never wise to blindly follow a single party Spider. You cannot fault someone for wanting to follow a candidate instead of a party.

It's odd though considering there are not really that many policy differences between her and Obama. It's not like they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. There is the experience argument, but lets be honest, Hillary doesn't have nearly as much experience as a lot of other politicians, McCain included. A lot of times in this race it's seemed to me to be more of a personality thing for people. There is just a lot of hate surrounding this whole primary, but it makes complete sense to me that Clinton would choose endorsing Obama over breaking up her party. I'm sure she knows that if the right people are assigned to his cabinet, and he surrounds himself with experience he will for the most part be the type of President she wanted to be, and have the same basic idealogical beliefs as her. The only semi-major difference between the two is their health care, which is probably what their conversation tonight was concerning, and I wouldn't be shocked if it's part of whatever deal it is he's offering her to drop out. It was Edwards' biggest reservation when it came to endorsing Obama as well.

 

[Marx]

It's odd though considering there are not really that many policy differences between her and Obama. It's not like they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. There is the experience argument, but lets be honest, Hillary doesn't have nearly as much experience as a lot of other politicians, McCain included. A lot of times in this race it's seemed to me to be more of a personality thing for people. There is just a lot of hate surrounding this whole primary, but it makes complete sense to me that Clinton would choose endorsing Obama over breaking up her party. I'm sure she knows that if the right people are assigned to his cabinet, and he surrounds himself with experience he will for the most part be the type of President she wanted to be, and have the same basic idealogical beliefs as her. The only semi-major difference between the two is their health care, which is probably what their conversation tonight was concerning, and I wouldn't be shocked if it's part of whatever deal it is he's offering her to drop out. It was Edwards' biggest reservation when it came to endorsing Obama as well.

And I remember some on here saying that she would cast hell fire and brimstone before dropping out. That she would single-handedly set the Democratic Party up in flames.

I think it largely boils down to personality. (Issue-wise they are near identical.) It's hard to say what their meeting was about...but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was VP. Sure there are other people that Obama could choose, but none that would have the impact of Clinton.

 

[jaguarr]

The thing about Clinton as a VP running mate obviously brings a lot of mixed thoughts on whether she helps or hurts Obama get elected. The thing that I have to think about, though, is what's her impact as an actual VP? Will she get in the way or undermine him and not let him accomplish what it is he wants to do? I don't picture her as content to play second fiddle and would think she'd try to make it a Co-Presidency which I really don't see Obama standing for. Plus, she brings Bill with her and frankly, he's got a lot of baggage and would be constantly running interference and trying to push his agendas which may or may not coincide with what Obama is wanting to do with his time in office. I have to think that, while it's possible that she could help him get elected, her presence could ultimately be a big distraction and a derailer for his initiatives and prevent him from accomplishing what he's wanting to do.

jag

 

[Raiden]

The thing about Clinton as a VP running mate obviously brings a lot of mixed thoughts on whether she helps or hurts Obama get elected. The thing that I have to think about, though, is what's her impact as an actual VP? Will she get in the way or undermine him and not let him accomplish what it is he wants to do? I don't picture her as content to play second fiddle and would think she'd try to make it a Co-Presidency which I really don't see Obama standing for. Plus, she brings Bill with her and frankly, he's got a lot of baggage and would be constantly running interference and trying to push his agendas which may or may not coincide with what Obama is wanting to do with his time in office. I have to think that, while it's possible that she could help him get elected, her presence could ultimately be a big distraction and a derailer for his initiatives and prevent him from accomplishing what he's wanting to do.

jag

Exactly. Just as Bill was a distraction to his wife's campaign, having both Hillary and Bill on the ticket would just undermine Obama and make him seemed like the third wheel, because you know both will speak out even if they know they shouldn't.

 

[Marx]

The thing about Clinton as a VP running mate obviously brings a lot of mixed thoughts on whether she helps or hurts Obama get elected. The thing that I have to think about, though, is what's her impact as an actual VP? Will she get in the way or undermine him and not let him accomplish what it is he wants to do? I don't picture her as content to play second fiddle and would think she'd try to make it a Co-Presidency which I really don't see Obama standing for. Plus, she brings Bill with her and frankly, he's got a lot of baggage and would be constantly running interference and trying to push his agendas which may or may not coincide with what Obama is wanting to do with his time in office. I have to think that, while it's possible that she could help him get elected, her presence could ultimately be a big distraction and a derailer for his initiatives and prevent him from accomplishing what he's wanting to do.

jag

I guess I just don't look at it that way. The way I see it is that they are nearly identical on every single policy stance. She pulls in what he can't.

Exactly. Just as Bill was a distraction to his wife's campaign, having both Hillary and Bill on the ticket would just undermine Obama and make him seemed like the third wheel, because you know both will speak out even if they know they shouldn't.

I understand what you're saying but there will only be one Clinton on the ticket if she is chosen to be VP.

 

[souvlaki]

I guess I just don't look at it that way. The way I see it is that they are nearly identical on every single policy stance. She pulls in what he can't.



I understand what you're saying but there will only be one Clinton on the ticket if she is chosen to be VP.

But Hillary is married to Bill Clinton, arguably the most powerful person in the Democratic Party, and the most popular Democratic President since Kennedy. This was the problem Hillary had to a certain extant. I know she's her own woman, but it is impossible to ignore the impact her husband had on the primary, and it's impossible to ignore the impact he would have if Hillary was VP. I hate doing this, but the Clintons', for all their positives and faults, are in many ways a 2 for 1 deal because of Bill's popular (and controversial) presidency. He is one of the most divisive political figures of the last 20 years, you either love him or hate his guts. So yes, of course only Hillary Clinton will be the VP, but it's impossible to ignore the influence her husband has, same as how it would be impossible to ignore the influence she had on her husband's Presidency. It really would be a co-Vice Presidency. There are a lot of pluses and minuses to that, though to be honest, I don't think Bill has been at the top of his game lately, and in some ways I think that might be a negative for Obama.

 

[jaguarr]

But Hillary is married to Bill Clinton, arguably the most powerful person in the Democratic Party, and the most popular Democratic President since Kennedy. This was the problem Hillary had to a certain extant. I know she's her own woman, but it is impossible to ignore the impact her husband had on the primary, and it's impossible to ignore the impact he would have if Hillary was VP. I hate doing this, but the Clintons', for all their positives and faults, are in many ways a 2 for 1 deal because of Bill's popular (and controversial) presidency. He is one of the most divisive political figures of the last 20 years, you either love him or hate his guts. So yes, of course only Hillary Clinton will be the VP, but it's impossible to ignore the influence her husband has, same as how it would be impossible to ignore the influence she had on her husband's Presidency. It really would be a co-Vice Presidency. There are a lot of pluses and minuses to that, though to be honest, I don't think Bill has been at the top of his game lately, and in some ways I think that might be a negative for Obama.

Bill has been shooting his mouth of quite a bit, lately, and I don't think that would subside if he was Husband To The Vice-President. The Obama Administration would be constantly having to do damage control over the things Bill said to the press, particularly things that were not in accordance with the direction they were going (I can see Bill trying to manipulate policy through the press). He'd become more Roger Clinton than Bill Clinton, I'm afraid; an embarrassment to the administration that they try to squelch and keep away from the press as much as possible.

jag

 

[souvlaki]

In regards to the other part of your response that I just quoted, TheMarx, I agree, but the VP slot has never been an absolute guarantee to bring votes in. Both of them are fairly inexperienced (well in comparison to McCain) Senators from blue states. There are better choices to balance out his ticket in my opinion. Preferably someone from a swing state, and someone that can help him with blue collar workers, and Hispanics. Someone with more experience than Clinton, and preferably not a Senator.

I guess I'm saying I really want Bill Richardson. I still think he evens out the ticket perfectly. He doesn't overshadow Obama like Clinton potentially might, and he's got a ton of experience. His only downside is the possibility of a certain sect of people not going for the double-minority ticket, but the same could be said about an Obama/Clinton ticket. And if Hillary and Bill both campaign hard for Obama, hopefully they can heal some wounds in the Democratic Party, and get a lot of Hillary supporters on the fence to realize Obama is worth their vote. Personally, I think she deserves a spot somewhere in his cabinet. It may even be a smart move on Obama's part to announce his plans for Clinton when he announces his VP choice, to alleviate a lot of her supporters' fears that her voice wont be heard.

When are cabinet positions usually announced? It seems like they are generally announced after the candidate wins the Presidency, but would it be a stupid move on Obama's part to announce who he'd assign to his cabinet at the convention? If he manages to get an amazing group of politicians in his cabinet it may get him some votes from people currently concerned with his experience.

 

[Comicfilmer]

I think it largely boils down to personality. (Issue-wise they are near identical.)

It did for me. Policy-wise, they're very similar in most respects. I'm just annoyed to an enth degree by Hillary Clinton, so I tossed in my chips for Barack.

 

[jaguarr]

Also, I'm amused by any Hillary Clinton supporter who would protest their feminist champion not getting the nomination by casting a vote for "Rich White Guy No. 54".

jag

 

[souvlaki]

Also, I'm amused by any Hillary Clinton supporter who would protest their feminist champion not getting the nomination by casting a vote for "Rich White Guy No. 54".

jag

"Pro Life Rich White Guy No. 54" no less.

 

[souvlaki]

It did for me. Policy-wise, they're very similar in most respects. I'm just annoyed to an enth degree by Hillary Clinton, so I tossed in my chips for Barack.

That's what clenched it for me too. Policy wise, I agree with Hillary more or less, same as Obama. But she is just way too divisive, and was already digging herself into quite a large hole in the primary. I can only imagine what would happen by the time of the General, and an actual first term of her as President. Not to say Obama came out of the primary completely clean either, but there were just too many things this primary that made it impossible for me to support her.

It's funny how that worked out. Back in 2004 when there were all those petitions going around trying to get Hillary in the race when our option were fairly limited outside Edwards, I was really keen to the idea, and was excited at the prospect of her running in 2008. But when it happened, I guess I was reminded of a lot of the dirty tricks, and negatives of the Clinton administration. I though Bill was a very good president, best of my lifetime (I was born at the start of the Reagan administration), but he was a divisive President, and his wife turned out to have a lot of those same qualities without any of the charisma of her husband. Anyhow, that's enough complaining about Clinton. Overall, I don't hate her. I agree with her stance on pretty much all the issues, think she is a great politician, and have a lot of respect for both her and her husband. I just think she was not a good candidate for President. Either that, or she just ran the worst political campaign in recent history.

 

[souvlaki]

Oh wait... I almost forgot about Rudy Guiliani, so I guess it isn't even close to being the worst even in this primary alone. That guy was just plain pathetic. The one state strategy has to be one of the biggest blunders ever in a primary.

 

[The Senator]

Clinton will be conceding tomorrow at my university... while I am away for the summer... which is the second time I've missed a major presidential candidate speak on campus (the first was when Obama was endorsed by Ted Kennedy)...

 

[Sebastos]

The thing about Clinton as a VP running mate obviously brings a lot of mixed thoughts on whether she helps or hurts Obama get elected. The thing that I have to think about, though, is what's her impact as an actual VP? Will she get in the way or undermine him and not let him accomplish what it is he wants to do? I don't picture her as content to play second fiddle and would think she'd try to make it a Co-Presidency which I really don't see Obama standing for. Plus, she brings Bill with her and frankly, he's got a lot of baggage and would be constantly running interference and trying to push his agendas which may or may not coincide with what Obama is wanting to do with his time in office. I have to think that, while it's possible that she could help him get elected, her presence could ultimately be a big distraction and a derailer for his initiatives and prevent him from accomplishing what he's wanting to do.

jag

That's exactly why I think she shouldn't be the VP.

 

[The Major]

She pulls in what he can't.

The older folks, yes and I'd say the women voting block but he can get the latter by himself given enough time.

He can make up for older voters by pulling in the independents and the Republicans.

That's a trait Hillary lacks. She can't appeal to them at all, plus she has the negative of being a polarizing figure in the Republican party, which will get them energized to vote instead of staying home, and the Democratic party. She was polarizing to the Dems before the primaries and she's a hundred times that now with her "scorched Earth" campaign.

I understand what you're saying but there will only be one Clinton on the ticket if she is chosen to be VP.

Which is one Clinton to many.