The Clinton Thread

[comicgirl]

Would you agree that said 'bitterness' has turned everyone into racist, gun-totting, zealots?

...nah, not everyone...but, there are certain "pocket" areas (Perry County, Bradford Co., etc) that I wouldn't want to run out of gas in.

I love my state....but, yeah Pennsyltucky has more than it's share of gun-rack-in-the-truck, Praise the Lord, all them n##$%$ need to stay over there dudes. But, so does every state.

BTW - is "racist, gun-toting, zealots" a direct quote?

 

[comicgirl]

It doesn't matter what you or other die-hard Obama supporters think. It matters what the independents and Republicans in many swing states think. They aren't going to buy the whole "I misspoke" line he gave the other day, and they certainly aren't going to let him brush it under the rug. These are the folks who Obama has been counting on-- independents and moderate Republicans (the Obamacans as he so arrogantly calls them) who helped give him a boost in the primary. And they don't take kindly to being insulted en masse.

If you and the other Hillarites think this will slow Obama down, you must be dreamin'.



BTW - thanks for your civil feedback that my opinions "don't matter". That sounds rather elitist to me.

 

[Matt]

...nah, not everyone...but, there are certain "pocket" areas (Perry County, Bradford Co., etc) that I wouldn't want to run out of gas in.

I love my state....but, yeah Pennsyltucky has more than it's share of gun-rack-in-the-truck, Praise the Lord, all them n##$%$ need to stay over there dudes. But, so does every state.

BTW - is "racist, gun-toting, zealots" a direct quote?

Basically. "They are bitter so they have an antipathy for those who are different (antipathy means hate) so they clutch onto their guns and religion."

 

[Matt]

If you and the other Hillarites think this will slow Obama down, you must be dreamin'.



BTW - thanks for your civil feedback that my opinions "don't matter". That sounds rather elitist to me.

I don't think that is what Jman meant. I think he meant that Obama supporters aren't going anywhere. Just as Clinton supporters won't turn from her due to her lies about Bosnia. Independents and swing state undecided voters however, will turn their back onto him based on stuff like this.

 

[The Senator]

If you and the other Hillarites think this will slow Obama down, you must be dreamin'.

I've given up on Hillary Clinton and this entire presidential election, to be honest. I would be insulting myself if I voted for someone who has less political experience than the lamp on my desk, and I'd be selling my soul if I voted for McCain. So as of now, I'm abstaining and approaching this from an objective standpoint.

But yes, this will hurt him, because the media is only focusing on how this affects the Pennsylvania primary. They aren't focusing on rural Ohio or Michigan, nor are they focusing on the independents who will determine who will win this election. An interesting thing to note is that Clinton has gained a 16 point lead in Indiana over the weekend, compared to a week ago when the two were statistically tied.

BTW - thanks for your civil feedback that my opinions "don't matter". That sounds rather elitist to me.

It's true-- it doesn't matter what the Obama supporters think about this. You've already made up your mind on who you're going to support. What matters are the voices of those who have yet to make up their minds, the independent or undecided voter who probably won't decide who to vote for until all the blood spilling is over with. They're the ones who are sitting on the sidelines, watching as Hillary lies about Bosnia or Obama's pastor goes on racist rants... many of them will be offended by Obama's comments, and won't vote for him... especially those who consider themselves religious, like guns, and think illegal immigration is a big problem (i.e. many rural voters in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan, three big swing states the Democrat needs to win).

 

[comicgirl]

I don't think that is what Jman meant. I think he meant that Obama supporters aren't going anywhere. Just as Clinton supporters won't turn from her due to her lies about Bosnia. Independents and swing state undecided voters however, will turn their back onto him based on stuff like this.

Thanks for your conceise arguement. Although, if I had Sinbad out me on a lie, I'd be pretty p#$$ed.

 

[blackcobra]

Would you agree that said 'bitterness' has turned everyone into racist, gun-totting, zealots?

I admit, that was a bad gaffe by Obama. However, wouldn't you agree that people in the lower economic classes tend to go to church more often, and hunt more often, and usually have a problem with racism. In the upper middle class people tend to judge you more based on your income, then your color.

I think this goes for both races. In the South where I was born, Church is everything, hunting & fishing is everything. Then I moved out to California in a upper middle class neighborhood. And those people tended to take road trips on Sunday instead of church, and NEVER went hunting. And the neighborhoods aren't as segregated as they were in the South.

 

[blackcobra]

Check out these stats. People in lower income states attend church more, and tend to be hunting and fishing states.


http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pRkQYR9Agq0jNw_Sc_8FkAw&gid=2

 

[Zen]

Basically. "They are bitter so they have an antipathy for those who are different (antipathy means hate) so they clutch onto their guns and religion."

i dont think antipathy means hate.

its the opposite of sympathy... its like an "aversion" or "dislike"

 

[rdh007]

First of all, stupid thing for Obama to say. Stupid.

But I'm so freaking tired of Bill Clinton that I can't truly express it.

 

[Tron5000]

I admit, that was a bad gaffe by Obama. However, wouldn't you agree that people in the lower economic classes tend to go to church more often, and hunt more often, and usually have a problem with racism. In the upper middle class people tend to judge you more based on your income, then your color.

I think this goes for both races. In the South where I was born, Church is everything, hunting & fishing is everything. Then I moved out to California in a upper middle class neighborhood. And those people tended to take road trips on Sunday instead of church, and NEVER went hunting. And the neighborhoods aren't as segregated as they were in the South.

I've lived in the South my entire life, as has my entire family. People in the South don't "cling to" religion and guns because they are "bitter." People go to church because they love God and fellowship with others. It is the opposite of being "bitter." It is being loving and giving, from yourself to others and to God.

People love guns in the South because they have respect for their rights to own and use them. Guns are used for food, sport and protection. People don't "cling" to their guns. They use and respect their firearms. It has nothing to do with being "bitter." It's about providing food for your family, having fun and being safe and protected.

There are racists in every racial, geographical and economic group. When you go to truly rural areas in the South, you see all races hanging out together. The kids play together in school and on the little league teams. The parents work with each other and see one another at the ball field. They jump start the other's car and offer to help carry groceries and work on your engine.

The portrayal of small-town Americans as racists, bigots and xenophobes is an antiquated notion. The true racists are the ones in the big cities who don't promote someone to VP or partner because of their race, not the small-town Americans who worship in church together, see each other at the little league ball field and play cards with one another on Friday night.

 

[Marx]

If you and the other Hillarites think this will slow Obama down, you must be dreamin'.



BTW - thanks for your civil feedback that my opinions "don't matter". That sounds rather elitist to me.

I hardly doubt Jman meant that your opinions "don't matter." All anyone is saying is that Obama isn't president yet. He has to escape the primary first. Let's not put the cart before the horse. He is doing a pretty good job of shooting himself in the foot with all of his careless remarks and affiliations. All of these republican swing voters and independents are turning off of him, and quickly. More and more so once something else comes out about him or he makes another idiotic generalization.

 

[Marx]

I admit, that was a bad gaffe by Obama. However, wouldn't you agree that people in the lower economic classes tend to go to church more often, and hunt more often, and usually have a problem with racism. In the upper middle class people tend to judge you more based on your income, then your color.

I think this goes for both races. In the South where I was born, Church is everything, hunting & fishing is everything. Then I moved out to California in a upper middle class neighborhood. And those people tended to take road trips on Sunday instead of church, and NEVER went hunting. And the neighborhoods aren't as segregated as they were in the South.

People do not "cling" to guns or religion, period. People enjoy guns for sport or what have you, and have great pride in their faith.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't know if that is the case. If the polls taken the last couple of days are any indication, the only people upset over this are pundits on CNN, and people that disliked Obama in the first place. I think they are overplaying their hand on this one. Between Hillary getting jeered yesterday, and then this getting brought up, if they don't play it right this will blow up in their faces.

With 56% of Americans disagreeing with Obama especially with 75% of Republicans and independents by a two-to-one margin (groups Obama needs), along with Obama slipping in the polls in Pennsylvania and Indiana along with his favorability ratings, I don't think just the news pundits and people who already disagree with Obama are people upset over this.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

So? Many voters are still offended by Obama's remarks, regardless of whether these signs exist...

but he lied, shows his judgement....shows his character.
blah blah blah! un-important ******** blah blah!

 

[Mr Sparkle]

People do not "cling" to guns or religion, period. People enjoy guns for sport or what have you, and have great pride in their faith.

no, sorry, wrong.
some people in the Hispanic community very much "cling" to gangs and a false sense of pride in their countries of origin. in the impoverished areas? a very large percentage does this.
to deny the truth in the statement Obama made is wrong.
simple.

 

[blackcobra]

I've lived in the South my entire life, as has my entire family. People in the South don't "cling to" religion and guns because they are "bitter." People go to church because they love God and fellowship with others. It is the opposite of being "bitter." It is being loving and giving, from yourself to others and to God.

People love guns in the South because they have respect for their rights to own and use them. Guns are used for food, sport and protection. People don't "cling" to their guns. They use and respect their firearms. It has nothing to do with being "bitter." It's about providing food for your family, having fun and being safe and protected.

There are racists in every racial, geographical and economic group. When you go to truly rural areas in the South, you see all races hanging out together. The kids play together in school and on the little league teams. The parents work with each other and see one another at the ball field. They jump start the other's car and offer to help carry groceries and work on your engine.

The portrayal of small-town Americans as racists, bigots and xenophobes is an antiquated notion. The true racists are the ones in the big cities who don't promote someone to VP or partner because of their race, not the small-town Americans who worship in church together, see each other at the little league ball field and play cards with one another on Friday night.

I'm from the South, and still visit there frequently. The only real intergration is through atheletic's, but after the ball game is over, things go back to being the same. Interacial dating is still a BIG taboo also.

But my point wasn't that they clinged to them because they were bittter, I provided facts that showed people in poorer economic states have higher church attendance, and tend to be hunting and fishing states. Leave the bitters out of the equation. And lets focus on that. Isn't it true that Hunting and fishing states have lower median incomes, yes or no?

 

[blackcobra]

People do not "cling" to guns or religion, period. People enjoy guns for sport or what have you, and have great pride in their faith.

Why is clinging to a gun or religon bad? People are acting like Obama said they cling to satanism?

 

[Matt]

Why is clinging to a gun or religon bad? People are acting like Obama said they cling to satanism?

Because Obama gave it a negative spin in his speech. He commented the reason these people cling to guns or religon is because they are bitter and racist.

 

[Tron5000]

I'm from the South, and still visit there frequently. The only real intergration is through atheletic's, but after the ball game is over, things go back to being the same. Interacial dating is still a BIG taboo also.

But my point wasn't that they clinged to them because they were bittter, I provided facts that showed people in poorer economic states have higher church attendance, and tend to be hunting and fishing states. Leave the bitters out of the equation. And lets focus on that. Isn't it true that Hunting and fishing states have lower median incomes, yes or no?

No, athletics are not the only means of real integration. Trust me: I live in Georgia and things do not work the way you describe them. People down here don't give a damn what color your skin is, as long as you cut your grass, don't drive too fast through the neighborhood, and let people over into your lane when they have their turn signal on, rather than speeding up and cutting them off.

Why leave the "bitters" out of the equation? That's kind of the purpose of this thread, is it not? I'm not here to debate you on the issue; I'm here to discuss the comments made by Barack Obama and why he was wrong in making them.

 

[Soundwave]

It was probably not the right thing for Obama to say given the sensitive nature of our country, but you can't deny that there is some truth to what he is saying. I'm an African American and I grew up in poverty and I can tell you that a lot of family and friends of our family were in fact "bitter" and blamed a lot of their problems on the white man, and our family did cling to religion a lot. Not to say that everyone who was poor felt this way but where I'm from it was definitely the majority.

 

[blackcobra]

Because Obama gave it a negative spin in his speech. He commented the reason these people cling to guns or religon is because they are bitter and racist.

He said they clinged to guns an religon due to the dire economic conditions that exist in those states.

 

[blackcobra]

No, athletics are not the only means of real integration. Trust me: I live in Georgia and things do not work the way you describe them. People down here don't give a damn what color your skin is, as long as you cut your grass, don't drive too fast through the neighborhood, and let people over into your lane when they have their turn signal on, rather than speeding up and cutting them off.

Why leave the "bitters" out of the equation? That's kind of the purpose of this thread, is it not? I'm not here to debate you on the issue; I'm here to discuss the comments made by Barack Obama and why he was wrong in making them.

Point taken, now lets focus on this fact. Wouldn't you agree that states with lower median incomes have higher church attendance, and ten to be hunting and fishing states yes or no?

 

[Marx]

no, sorry, wrong.
some people in the Hispanic community very much "cling" to gangs and a false sense of pride in their countries of origin. in the impoverished areas? a very large percentage does this.
to deny the truth in the statement Obama made is wrong.
simple.

Ugh, Sparkle. Must you disagree with everything I say? While some do cling to "guns and religion," the vast majority do not. The broad generalization that Obama made is inaccurate.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Ugh, Sparkle. Must you disagree with everything I say? While some do cling to "guns and religion," the vast majority do not. The broad generalization that Obama made is inaccurate.

He didn't say *every* small town in America. He said alot of towns in the midwest, which isn't a stretch from the truth.