Oh dear God.
Nolan describes the Joker in his film as anarchy incarnate. If "Anarchy" were a dude, do you think he would have a fawking girlfriend? Heath's Joker may very well get his rape on, but he won't be dating, I assure you. Nolan will never ever evah go that route. Because it's fawking stupid, like that cartoon.
It's not stupid. Harley is a very real character and I think alot of people would find something interesting in her or at least room to feel sympathetic for her. We all know of girls who despite all logic and reason are bound destructivily to the 'wrong guy'. More specifically for Harley, it's Patti Hearst, the Manson girls, the references already exist. As Crook said there's alot more to Harley, at least in potential, that is readily evident in the cartoons or most comic books.
Also remember her relationship with joker is really only the starting point for the character, that part should be established ond moved on with fairly quickly. Even her first appearance in the comics, Joker has tried to murder her halfway through the book, Harley plans her revenge but in the end cannot go through with it.
Their relationship was never depicted as two people dating. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The whole love aspect was strictly one-sided on Harley's side. Joker was just plain manipulative and decided to take Harley on for whatever amusement he has. He'll have no regrets being violent or ditching her altogether at a moment's notice.
this is true. If it WERE a normal relationship, dating' of sorts well then yeah that wpuld be completly boring and unneccersarry.
Because, like it or not, a relationship is a relationship, even if it is an abusive one, and to have Harley in there would give them both a twisted, Honeymooners-vibe that would humanize the character.
And he's an absolute, remember?
but relationships are what movies are about. Batman has a very real relationship with the Joker, does that humanise him?
I don't think it's smart to have an utterly inhuman character as a villain, Batman may as well fight a hurricane or volcano if that will be the case. I know Nolans refers to Joker as an absolute but that doesn't mean there should never be recognisable human traits, emotions, fears, wants, desires etc evident in the Joker. To me those glimpses of humanity make a 'villain' much more frightening....it what we respond to as social beings. For instace when people point to TKJ as being one of the greatest portrayals of Joker I think much of it is owed to vulnerability of the Joker, something that is generally absent in other versions. I'm not talking so much about the scenes of his former life, but in the ending. When he tells Batman "it's far too late for that", he almost seems to regret his life for a moment, before consoling himself with a joke.
Going back to Joker being an "absolute", Nolan also said in the interview that his voice
"goes from being quite high-pitched and eccentric to having these sort of moments of extraordinary anger and power where you just feel this guys anger at things. Hes very charismatic, but really quite frightening.
This is a great quote because it signals that Joker will indeed be a character with something very real to express, outside of all the hijinks and badarsery. He's not just a Clown Prince of Crime, a homicial manic, a fearless shark, and force of chaos, etc etc. He's a severely twisted, burnt out soul with a vendetta against the world, and there's something incredibily sad about that. The whole archetype he represents is a juxtapostion of comedy and tradgey, so it's important that there is some humanity there to create that tragic element. Having Harley around would add another dimension to all that i think
And yet I assure you that this will not put an end to Harley Quinn speculation, manips, and squabbling.
Why the hell would it?
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