The Dark Knight The Dark Knight Fan Review Thread

[Batman jr.]

^ Maybe because it's not "fun"... ?

 

[Anita18]

What's up with the people at Comic Book Resources? They're tearing this movie apart like it's The Phantom Menace.

I started to take a look and had to stop once I got to their observations about the plot being light. Couldn't take them seriously after that. I mean, really?

You just can't help some people.

 

[I Am The Knight]

What's up with the people at Comic Book Resources? They're tearing this movie apart like it's The Phantom Menace.

You mean this one?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]THE DARK KNIGHT REGURGITATES[/FONT]

Brendon Connelly, good friend of the column and founder of Film Ick disagrees with the entire world and didn’t like “The Dark Knight." He tells us why. Nervous souls should look away now;

I’m not really in the mood for writing film reviews at the moment, and this one didn’t even get started until today, the day of publication, yet, simply put, I felt that I really should write it. You see, not only did I find The Dark Knight to fall somewhat short of its hyped up reputation, I recognized it for what it truly was -- an honest to goodness piece of trash. Junk. Bilge. Garbage. Drivel. Hogwash. Indeed, it’s not entirely unlike Batman Begins, just even more over-extended.​

This is probably going to be read as a kill piece, so l might as well just go for it and make with the knife wounds in quick succession. Here is a heap of bullet points, each of them a serious fault in this godforsaken mess of a film -- but even in total only serving as an introduction to my criticisms. As I said, I don’t want to spend all day on this, I just think there needs to be some sense spoken about this ridiculous film. I’ll keep each flavour criticism to a single example.​

The dialogue is excruciating, pretty much top to bottom. For one thing, it is laden with countless slabs of pointless exposition -- for example: a shot of a mobile phone inside a man’s skin is effectively titled by the line “It’s a mobile phone". And it keeps happening. This film spells out so many of it’s images it often feels more like an episode of Dick Barton than, say, a good Batman film (you know -- like the one from the 60s, or the two Burton made).​

Great wedges of this dialogue are heaped into tiresome “refresher scenes" -- for example, the press conference -- in which the would-be subtext is spelled out for us, effectively rendered text. Sub, sure -- but not subtext. Just sub-par.​

And the clichés in the dialogue and delivery were sometimes beyond insulting -- listen to the entire bank robbery sequence for a microcosm of how tin eared the Nolan brothers have proven to be.​

Nolan doesn’t have the first idea how to film cinematic space. The action scenes are jumbled in the extreme and there’s any number of problems in even the dialogue sequences. Watch the interrogation room sequence with Big Ears and the clown -- hideous. Even worse is the dangling Joker scene, in which he’s been flipped the right way up. Thinking for a moment about the processes by which we read and interpret images on the screen, this sequence is so disconcerting for the mind of the viewer, and to no useful end, that I have no idea how or why Nolan and his cronies came up with it.​

The whole IMAX scenes farrago is fuel for a dozen bullet points in itself but, suffice to say, Nolan is not up to the task of composing images in multiple aspect ratios simultaneously. Why this has gone unreported, I have no idea but I’ll kick in. Nolan pretends to have composed images in IMAX that work perfectly for the purpose of the shot needed at that moment -- and then, that a scope-shaped slice can be taken out and that will work just as well. More stupidly still, the image is to be recomposed again for the eventual Blu-Ray release. Masterful image composition is not about point-and-shoot, nor is it about making pretty pictures -- it is about balancing the elements of the frame to create the desired relationships between them and the most effective emotional or psychological effect on the viewer. If you reckon Nolan can do this thrice in a single shot set-up then you’re either incredibly gullible or don’t understand the issue in the slightest.​

And that’s saying nothing of the sideshow gimmick of the IMAX version cutting to a different aspect ratio anyway. Not the choice of a filmmaker looking to immerse his audience in a hermetic and fully dimensional diegesis.​

The plot makes little sense for most of the time, and no sense at all at several junctures. The Joker seems capable of accomplishing incredible feats in incredibly short spaces of time, for one thing -- though I can swing with that, to a degree - but there are any number of holes, Batman leaving a penthouse full of innocents with the Joker and his cronies being one particularly disturbing example.​

The technology is somewhat reminiscent of CSI, from the bullet reconstruction to the city-wide Sonar scanner. And that is, I think, about the harshest damnation I can pour on any scene revolving around scientific principles without evoking Heroes.​

The anti-Chinese drive is head-shakingly pathetic if not outright offensive (the mention of buying American in the courtroom scene pushes it beyond an incidental factor of the Hong Kong gangster plotline).​

This film does not take place in any kind of universe where dressing up as a Bat and putting on a hilariously silly voice makes even a drop of sense (unless as an adolescent power fantasy, which for many viewers I suppose it is). Indeed, much of the film does not belong in the world Nolan seems desperate to ground it in, particularly the biological details of Two Face’s disfigurement. All of this could have seemed at home in a universe that played by these rules -- another lesson to be learnt from the Burton films.​

The “tension inducing" soundtrack is crassly simplistic.​

Essentially, what I’m saying is that The Dark Knight is, almost without exception, a series of incredibly bad filmmaking choices strung together over an unbearable running time. About as far from a masterpiece as I’ve seen in the cinemas in a couple of years at least. On the other hand, I think Gary Oldman was incredible and Eckhart, Ledger and just Gyllenhaal fine. I look forward to their next projects -- Ledger’s in particular -- with keen anticipation​

 

[Hello Beautiful]

I loathe reviews like that.

Sure, I studied Media for four years, but I know when not to over analyse and TRY and find multiple errors to rip a film to shreds.

Just enjoy a damn good film for fecksake.

 

[Mercurius]

I particularly liked the way the reviewer said the scene in which the Joker is hanging heads down and then is flipped up "is desconcerting": he signed his confession with this.

"Hey pals, I can't understand filmmaking. But I'll write a dismissive review trying to impress people with my ah-ham, criticism."

Knock-knock: it's supposed to be disconcerting.

But in one thing the *****e is right: there is a clear, prejudiced and simplistic anti-foreigner message throughout the movie, which is rather poor and embarassing, notwithstanding the great accomplishment the movie really is.

 

[ForestAflame]

But in one thing the *****e is right: there is a clear, prejudiced and simplistic anti-foreigner message throughout the movie, which is rather poor and embarassing, notwithstanding the great accomplishment the movie really is.

Exactly where was this anti-foreigner message?

 

[Anita18]

I loathe reviews like that.

Sure, I studied Media for four years, but I know when not to over analyse and TRY and find multiple errors to rip a film to shreds.

Just enjoy a damn good film for fecksake.

Heck, I'm over-analyzing the film to death and I love it even more. He's just over-analyzing it with a good amount of bias and close-mindedness.

Exactly where was this anti-foreigner message?

The only thing I could come up with is the HK sequence, but it really could have been a number of locations. China is just the most obvious one, and what I realized after a few viewings is that we already know Batman understands whatever Lau is yelling at him (because Wayne speaks and understands Mandarin in BB), but pays no heed.

For those of you who do not understand Mandarin, Lau yells "I'll give you anything!" while Batman is dragging him by the foot and "Don't shoot!" to the police when they arrive. The non-Chinese-speaking population audience doesn't really miss anything that they don't already know, but it does add a little bit to the film.

 

[Mercurius]

Exactly where was this anti-foreigner message?

Everywhere.

All the mob crooks have some kind of foreign accent, and you can grasp at least three different origins. Moroni is clearly the Italian capo. Dent's comment about the gun, etc.

It underlines the movie as the idea of bad guys, 'cause the heroes are another kind of people, of course.

But keep in mind I consider TDK the best comic book movie ever made. The ideological aspects are another discussion, of course.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Oh lord. And I guess the film paints Americans as evil, since the Joker and Two-Face are American.

 

[Mercurius]

Oh lord. And I guess the film paints Americans as evil, since the Joker and Two-Face are American.

The Joker is evil, but in another level, he is proposing a metaphysical chess to Batman's morals.

Two-Face is another thing, completely. He is not evil. He was defaced, he is a moral dilemma in itself.

The crooks, the guys who are the bad guys like those who really exist, they're foreigners. They're not some gorgeous fantasy.

 

[Anita18]

The crooks, the guys who are the bad guys like those who really exist, they're foreigners. They're not some gorgeous fantasy.

Maroni's accent isn't necessarily Italian, but it could easily be Italian-American like in the Bronx. He just has an Italian last name. Gambol's accent isn't foreign.

So you're left with just the Chechen, which is really hardly an argument for TDK being an anti-foreigner film.

 

[Mercurius]

Maroni's accent isn't necessarily Italian, but it could easily be Italian-American like in the Bronx. He just has an Italian last name. Gambol's accent isn't foreign.

So you're left with just the Chechen, which is really hardly an argument for TDK being an anti-foreigner film.

Nope. I have the Chechen, the "Italian" (as the Joker calls Moroni) and Lau, who is so good with numbers. I have also Dent's heroic remark.

IMO, it's pretty obvious. Anyway, it's not just TDK. Hollywood tends to make this case for the American Way of Life.

 

[Anita18]

Nope. I have the Chechen, the "Italian" (as the Joker calls Moroni) and Lau, who is so good with numbers. I have also Dent's heroic remark.

IMO, it's pretty obvious. Anyway, it's not just TDK. Hollywood tends to make this case for the American Way of Life.

Lau goes with the Batman-going-to-HK-because-China-won't-extradite-him thing, which is the most obvious example of anti-foreign vibe in the film.

And Joker referring to Maroni as "the Italian" isn't really an argument, because he doesn't have a straight-up Italian accent and we know he's been in Gotham for most of his life. He just has an Italian last name. I'm ethnically Chinese, I look it, and I have a Chinese last name, so people refer to me as Chinese. But I'm American, I've never even been to China. I also thinks China sucks from time to time.

But okay, you can extrapolate whatever you want from the film.

 

[Jokers_Wild]

Nope. I have the Chechen, the "Italian" (as the Joker calls Moroni) and Lau, who is so good with numbers. I have also Dent's heroic remark.

IMO, it's pretty obvious. Anyway, it's not just TDK. Hollywood tends to make this case for the American Way of Life.

Your argument really makes no sense being that most of the mob are Americans. They're not foreigners, except for the Chechen.

edit: Although foreign-born, even the Chechen may be a legal citizen.

 

[ForestAflame]

The Dark Knight is a superhero film with a complex story, interesting characters, and captivating structure. It is the best superhero movie I've seen, and it's one of the best movies ever. It never seems to dumb itself down even when the dialogue gets laughably bad ("That's REALLY not good!") but continues at a heart-stopping pace, filled to the brim with feverish intensity. While Nolan's interpretation of the Joker isn't the perma-white villain we know and love, it's still the closest we've seen onscreen character-wise. If the physical portrayal of the Joker was closer to the original, I'd say that it was not Heath Ledger, but the Joker himself conjured up from the graphic novels and comic books. But still the fact remains: Christopher Nolan has made such a good film that such misjudgments can be overlooked and this film can be recognized as an instant classic. Before this I said, if it was half as good as Batman Begins (my previous favorite superhero film), I'd enjoy it. But this was twice as good as Batman Begins. Heath Ledger was a beast as the Joker, playing the psychopathic murderer with fervor bordering on possession. Aaron Eckhart was good as the DA Harvey Dent crusading for justice...but he was absolutely great as Two-Face, never being overwhelmed by the performance of the Joker as would any lesser actor or villain. Christian Bale was good as always. Maggie Gyllenhaal was fine. Morgan Freeman was great. Michael Caine was great. Gary Oldman shined. But this film belongs to the freaks and particularly one freak: The Joker.

10/10

 

[CuppaJoe07]

Nope. I have the Chechen, the "Italian" (as the Joker calls Moroni) and Lau, who is so good with numbers. I have also Dent's heroic remark.

IMO, it's pretty obvious. Anyway, it's not just TDK. Hollywood tends to make this case for the American Way of Life.

Two things.

One, Christopher Nolan's team, I'm sure, does not let themselves accept studio or as you say, "Hollywood" input. It's not like it's "Hollywood's" decision.

Second, If you read stuff like The Long Halloween, Year One, etc, (Maroni is still referred to as "The Italian", Falcone referred to as "The Roman")... you'll find that the mob having individual nationality is NOT limited to the film - it's in the source material as well, as well as just how mobs really are in actuality. So it's not really Hollywood's input being "anti-foreigner", it's just the filmmakers following the source material. It's not like "Hollywood" (or WB) purposely put in input saying "hey, let's put an anti-foreigner message in the film! Ha! That'd be great, huh?!" that's just ridiculous.

 

[metropolitanpsy]

the dark knight borrows a lot from dkr, i have a feeling the franchise is goin towards the all

star batman and robin interpretaion of batman, were batman is very much the anti hero and

on the run from the authorities!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mercurius]

Lau goes with the Batman-going-to-HK-because-China-won't-extradite-him thing, which is the most obvious example of anti-foreign vibe in the film.

And Joker referring to Maroni as "the Italian" isn't really an argument, because he doesn't have a straight-up Italian accent and we know he's been in Gotham for most of his life. He just has an Italian last name. I'm ethnically Chinese, I look it, and I have a Chinese last name, so people refer to me as Chinese. But I'm American, I've never even been to China. I also thinks China sucks from time to time.

But okay, you can extrapolate whatever you want from the film.

If you don't want to see it, so don't see it. Making up excuses like those cheap ones above won't help your point, however.

And your attitude at the last lines is also a confession. Many people around the world would have even better reasons to say the same about the US.

And if they made a movie to say those things, it would be labeled a piece of propaganda against the US.

 

[Mercurius]

Two things.

One, Christopher Nolan's team, I'm sure, does not let themselves accept studio or as you say, "Hollywood" input. It's not like it's "Hollywood's" decision.

Second, If you read stuff like The Long Halloween, Year One, etc, (Maroni is still referred to as "The Italian", Falcone referred to as "The Roman")... you'll find that the mob having individual nationality is NOT limited to the film - it's in the source material as well, as well as just how mobs really are in actuality. So it's not really Hollywood's input being "anti-foreigner", it's just the filmmakers following the source material. It's not like "Hollywood" (or WB) purposely put in input saying "hey, let's put an anti-foreigner message in the film! Ha! That'd be great, huh?!" that's just ridiculous.

Not only ridiculous, but true. Read something about ideology and filmmaking.

 

[Mercurius]

Your argument really makes no sense being that most of the mob are Americans. They're not foreigners, except for the Chechen.

edit: Although foreign-born, even the Chechen may be a legal citizen.

Your argument is not even an argument, because you do not pay attention to facts in fiction: in fiction it doesn't count what you do not see represented. If you put three heads of crime all the time in the screen, that's where the meaning is.

Their minions are just minions.

Consider that they take great care, for instance, to show you the "Rachel Dawes" name in the fake policeman's chest. They know the need to make it clear to the minds of everybody. That's the same with the villains.

And the last remark: it's too naïve for me to believe you really endorse that. With the foreign politics the US has taken lately (criticised by the WHOLE world), this can only be a joke of yours.

 

[I Am The Knight]

When Dent says "I recommend you buy American" ... I half expected the next scene to show Dent walking towards the camera in slo-mo, with the american flag waving on the background

But I didn't find any anti-foreign messages in the film really. So there. I think some people are reading too much into this

 

[Anita18]

Consider that they take great care, for instance, to show you the "Rachel Dawes" name in the fake policeman's chest. They know the need to make it clear to the minds of everybody. That's the same with the villains.

They take great care with that scene because it's important for the story.

They don't show you what happens with Gambol's goons after Joker drops the broken pool cue. They don't show what happens how Batman finds Maroni at the nightclub, or how he finds Harvey Dent that same night, or even how he finds Gordon and Dent at the end of the film. They don't even show you how Gordon pulls off faking his death. At all.

That's because how he does those things is not important to the story. It's not important to the story itself where the mobsters came from, just that they're in Gotham messing things up.

Similarly, we've been pointing out the various mirroring actions that many characters do, and I fully realize that finding these little tidbits is not important to the story. They're just fun to point out.

I'm giving you that option too. If you want to extrapolate an "anti-foreigner" message from TDK due to Lau, Maroni, Chechen, and Rossi's gun being non-American (Gambol still doesn't fit, sorry, and you haven't address that yet), go right ahead. But that doesn't mean I'm agreeing with you.

Also, Chris and Jonah Nolan were both born in London, and a good number of Chris's regular crew is also British. Weren't there people complaining that BB's production didn't involve enough Americans?

 

[Mercurius]

They take great care with that scene because it's important for the story.

They don't show you what happens with Gambol's goons after Joker drops the broken pool cue. They don't show what happens how Batman finds Maroni at the nightclub, or how he finds Harvey Dent that same night, or even how he finds Gordon and Dent at the end of the film. They don't even show you how Gordon pulls off faking his death. At all.

That's because how he does those things is not important to the story. It's not important to the story itself where the mobsters came from, just that they're in Gotham messing things up.

Similarly, we've been pointing out the various mirroring actions that many characters do, and I fully realize that finding these little tidbits is not important to the story. They're just fun to point out.

I'm giving you that option too. If you want to extrapolate an "anti-foreigner" message from TDK due to Lau, Maroni, Chechen, and Rossi's gun being non-American (Gambol still doesn't fit, sorry, and you haven't address that yet), go right ahead. But that doesn't mean I'm agreeing with you.

Also, Chris and Jonah Nolan were both born in London, and a good number of Chris's regular crew is also British. Weren't there people complaining that BB's production didn't involve enough Americans?

Tony Blair is English, too.

You say about Gambol as if every little detail should come to you as a proof. If you don't think you have enough with all the others, that's with you.

Some people can only see it coming when it has already come to pass. Others, not even like that.

"That's because how he does those things is not important to the story. It's not important to the story itself where the mobsters came from, just that they're in Gotham messing things up."

Thanks for that, too.

It shows your utter disregard for what you just said, meaning: that they show what is important for the story.

If that's so, I presume in some level it is important for the story that thing with the villains' origins.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Tony Blair is English, too.

You say about Gambol as if every little detail should come to you as a proof. If you don't think you have enough with all the others, that's with you.

Some people can only see it coming when it has already come to pass. Others, not even like that.

"That's because how he does those things is not important to the story. It's not important to the story itself where the mobsters came from, just that they're in Gotham messing things up."

Thanks for that, too.

It shows your utter disregard for what you just said, meaning: that they show what is important for the story.

If that's so, I presume in some level it is important for the story that thing with the villains' origins.

 

[Mercurius]