The Doctor Doom Thread

[Boom]

No.

Kinda seems that way, fam.

 

[DarthFantastic]

Kinda seems that way, fam.

Sent you a PM.

 

[Venom 1988]

This guy lmao

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's not. Came across it on Reddit a few weeks ago.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

God knows Reddit is always a reliable source of information...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

God knows Reddit is always a reliable source of information...

Found it on AITA.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[MarvelFan]

Reading that alleged leak posted by DarthFantastic, ...if thats legit, then wow...I am afraid that would be more polarizing the fans far worse than "Pa Kent's maybe" or "Save Martha" moment"

Sure there will be some people who will write long post explanation essay to convince most of us that it is an awesome concept, and how come we don't get the brilliance of it...haha
But it still doesnt change that the idea, imo is still absurd and bad lol (because it will undo and damaging Iron Man's heroic arc from Infinity Saga)

So no thank you for that,lol

 

[MarvelFan]

In the alleged leak

Spoiler

Kang plants a Doom baby in the 616 to ensure his own birth thousands of years later. Kang is a descendant of Doom's. The fact that the baby grows up to be a hero in being raised by the Starks, introduces the concept of nature vs. nurture to Doom's arc. If he's raised by good people, in good conditions, he becomes Earth's mightiest hero. If he's allowed to grow up in Latveria however, under harsh conditions, he becomes Earth's greatest threat. They're proposing the idea that a Doom is either the best of us (616 Tony) or the worst of us (God Emperor of Battleworld).

I mean, lets be real here.
Tony before he became Iron Man was not exactly a saint...
It took him to get kidnapped by terrorist and becoming Iron Man is what really let his goodness take surface and he capped it off by sacrificing his own life for the universe—-something that old Tony wouldn’t have done imo, so nurturing by the Starks had nothing to do with how his character has taken a shape...the Starks ain't exactly the same as the Kents or the Parkers.

 

[DarthFantastic]

I mean, lets be real here.
Tony before he became Iron Man was not exactly a saint...
It took him to get kidnapped by terrorist and becoming Iron Man is what really let his goodness take surface and he capped it off by sacrificing his own life for the universe—-something that old Tony wouldn’t have done imo, so nurturing by the Starks had nothing to do with how his character has taken a shape...the Starks ain't exactly the same as the Kents or the Parkers.

In the MCU, the Starks were great people. Important people who made the world a better place.

It was their assassinations that allowed Obadiah Stane, Howard's second in command, to take Stark Industries into a strictly war mongering direction.

I agree that it was Ho Yinsen who lit the match on 616 Tony's heroism. But to say the Starks had no influence on Tony's character is inaccurate. Tony worshiped Howard and Howard was an absolute force for good.

Pre-Iron Man Tony was not a bad person. He was just a spoiled brat who was wasting his talents by strictly designing weapons with zero accountability due to Stane's leadership/influence.

 

[Boom]

I just find all of this to be incredibly immaterial to my larger point of contention, and that is that I do not believe the Doctor Doom character stands to gain anything from this concept. This could otherwise be a very faithful depiction of Doom, but everything is going to feel auxiliary to the Tony Stark/multiverse connection. That will ultimately be the point of emphasis here, and that's the mistake.

I am disappointed in Marvel, because historically they've been pretty consistent about staying the course despite rocky waves here and there. Nothing about this decision feels organic. Their last few movies have struggled financially and critically. Fan enthusiasm towards the current direction has been split at best. They ****ed up Kang in Ant-Man 3, and then refused to simply recast the role with the Majors scandal. Their answer? Emergency pivot to Doom, and oh let's get fan-favorite RDJ back. Instant box office!

Their chasing dollars and the glory of the old days, and they're letting that drive creative decision-making. Historically, this approach does not work out well. And for a character I've literally waited years and years to see done properly, having to settle for the least worst option is a sore consolation prize.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just find all of this to be incredibly immaterial to my larger point of contention, and that is that I do not believe the Doctor Doom character stands to gain anything from this concept. This could otherwise be a very faithful depiction of Doom, but everything is going to feel auxiliary to the Tony Stark/multiverse connection. That will ultimately be the point of emphasis here, and that's the mistake.

I am disappointed in Marvel, because historically they've been pretty consistent about staying the course despite rocky waves here and there. Nothing about this decision feels organic.

Their last few movies have struggled financially and critically. Fan enthusiasm towards the current direction has been split at best. They ****ed up Kang in Ant-Man 3, and then refused to simply recast the role with the Majors scandal. Their answer? Emergency pivot to Doom, and oh let's get fan-favorite RDJ back. Instant box office!

Their chasing dollars and the glory of the old days, and they're letting that drive creative decision-making.

Exactly points I have been making. They're desperate to have RDJ back, and instead of crafting an interesting Doctor Doom story and casting an actor based on that idea on the page, instead the story has to be built around shoehorning RDJ into the role. That's a backwards way to create good characters and stories, and all these various ideas people are pitching are not making Doctor Doom a better character or are telling a good Doctor Doom story. In fact, the fact we are so focused on how to explain why Doom has a specific face when the character is best known for having a mangled face and wears a mask and thus his face should never even be an issue I find to exactly illustrate why this casting sucks.

 

[Boom]

Exactly points I have been making. They're desperate to have RDJ back, and instead of crafting an interesting Doctor Doom story and casting an actor based on that idea on the page, instead the story has to be built around shoehorning RDJ into the role. That's a backwards way to create good characters and stories, and all these various ideas people are pitching are not making Doctor Doom a better character or are telling a good Doctor Doom story. In fact, the fact we are so focused on how to explain why Doom has a specific face when the character is best known for having a mangled face and wears a mask and thus his face should never even be an issue I find to exactly illustrate why this casting sucks.

Every theory and suggestion I've seen has been in pursuit of making a bad idea somewhat more palatable. I simply do not see an avenue here that leads me to the conclusion "Oh they've got it."

 

[Spider-Fan]

Every theory and suggestion I've seen has been in pursuit of making a bad idea somewhat more palatable. I simply do not see an avenue here that leads me to the conclusion "Oh they've got it."

Exactly. It's all about making RDJ work as Doctor Doom, and not making Doctor Doom work within the MCU. Which is not how you make good cinema

 

[DarthFantastic]

I just find all of this to be incredibly immaterial to my larger point of contention, and that is that I do not believe the Doctor Doom character stands to gain anything from this concept. This could otherwise be a very faithful depiction of Doom, but everything is going to feel auxiliary to the Tony Stark/multiverse connection. That will ultimately be the point of emphasis here, and that's the mistake.

You can still have a very faithful adaptation of Doom regardless of his connection to 616 Tony Stark.

Establishing that in another universe, another Doom became a good guy in no way compromises the supervillain origin and status of the Doom we're getting in Doomsday and Secret Wars.

838 Strange didn't ruin 616 Strange. Maguire's Spider-Man didn't affect Holland's Spider-Man. God of Stories Loki didn't diminish 616 Loki.

The notion that somehow RDJ won't be playing a ripped from the comics Doom is 100% speculation. There's nothing to support it, specially when RDJ asserted in his last interview on the matter that Feige wants to get Victor von Doom "right" finally.

 

[Spider-Fan]

No-one is going to ever say in an interview they don't care about what a fan wants and will do their own thing before a movie comes out. Ask Julian McMahon about it in 2005, and he said he grew up a FF fan and loved Doom and that fans would be happy. For a version that was Norman Osborn light. So I don't care what they say in interviews before the movie is out and the goal is sell the movie. RDJ is obviously going to say he "wants to get Doom right" as opposed to "They're paying me over 100 mil to do this, so obviously I said yes"

 

[Venom 1988]

Hey @DarthFantastic got that source yet or you gonna ignore this too?

 

[DarthFantastic]

I am disappointed in Marvel, because historically they've been pretty consistent about staying the course despite rocky waves here and there. Nothing about this decision feels organic. Their last few movies have struggled financially and critically. Fan enthusiasm towards the current direction has been split at best.

Deadpool and Wolverine, a Multiverse-heavy action comedy with an 'R' rating, made $1.3 Billion (and counting) at the box office. It's the 7th highest grossing CBM of all time with an "A" Cinemascore.

Marvel Studios is not struggling financially and critically. Fan enthusiasm is at an all-time high right now.

 

[Chris B]

I just find all of this to be incredibly immaterial to my larger point of contention, and that is that I do not believe the Doctor Doom character stands to gain anything from this concept. This could otherwise be a very faithful depiction of Doom, but everything is going to feel auxiliary to the Tony Stark/multiverse connection. That will ultimately be the point of emphasis here, and that's the mistake.

I am disappointed in Marvel, because historically they've been pretty consistent about staying the course despite rocky waves here and there. Nothing about this decision feels organic. Their last few movies have struggled financially and critically. Fan enthusiasm towards the current direction has been split at best. They ****ed up Kang in Ant-Man 3, and then refused to simply recast the role with the Majors scandal. Their answer? Emergency pivot to Doom, and oh let's get fan-favorite RDJ back. Instant box office!

Their chasing dollars and the glory of the old days, and they're letting that drive creative decision-making. Historically, this approach does not work out well. And for a character I've literally waited years and years to see done properly, having to settle for the least worst option is a sore consolation prize.

The weird thing for me is why they didn't just bring back RDJ to play an Iron Man variant that survived Endgame and market the hell out of his return. The simplest route is often the best route.

 

[DarthFantastic]

The weird thing for me is why they didn't just bring back RDJ to play an Iron Man variant that survived Endgame and market the hell out of his return. The simplest route is often the best route.

Boring. All the Superior Iron Man ideas, of RDJ returning as the hero, were boring. He's done that already. It'd be Tony Stark overkill.

Doctor Doom presents an actual challenge for RDJ. Gives him a chance to flex his acting chops. Dude's a powerhouse coming off the Oscar for 2023's best villain. It's also vindication because 20 years ago Rothman & Arad passed on him playing Doom due to the controversy.

 

[Spider-Fan]

No one cares about 2005 in 2024 and his Doom would have sucked cause the script for the 2005 movies had Norman Osborn light as Doom. So he dodged a bullet if anything. I highly doubt in 2024 he is still mad he didn't get to play a crappy version of Doom in a crappy FF movie and he instead had to settle for a character that revived his career in a much better movie

 

[DarthFantastic]

No one cares about 2005 in 2024 and his Doom would have sucked cause the script for the 2005 movies had Norman Osborn light as Doom. So he dodged a bullet if anything. I highly doubt in 2024 he is still mad he didn't get to play a crappy version of Doom in a crappy FF movie and he instead had to settle for a character that revived his career in a much better movie

1993: Robert Downey Jr. at age 28, is up for an Oscar for Best Actor at the 65th Academy Awards.

2003: Robert Downey Jr. auditions for the role of Doctor Doom for FOX & Marvel and is rejected due to his still controversial status.

2023: Robert Downey Jr. is cast as Doctor Doom, by Marvel, with a paycheck that will go down as the largest payday for an acting role in the history of Cinema, upwards of $100 Million.

If that ain't vindication, I don't know what is.

 

[Venom 1988]

Ok just a troll then desperate for attention then.

 

[Spider-Fan]

1993: Robert Downey Jr. at age 28, is up for an Oscar for Best Actor at the 65th Academy Awards.

2003: Robert Downey Jr. auditions for the role of Doctor Doom for FOX & Marvel and is rejected due to his still controversial status.

2023: Robert Downey Jr. is cast as Doctor Doom, by Marvel, with a paycheck that will go down as the largest payday for an acting role in the history of Cinema, upwards of $100 Million.

If that ain't vindication, I don't know what is.

I am a fan of movies and of Doctor Doom. I am going to be real: I don't give a crap about how much money RDJ makes from a role or about his personal vindication. I care about the movie, the character, and my personal enjoyment of the product. If RDJ feels vindicated cause he is making huge bank off the role and such, good for him. He can feel however he wants and that's valid for him. But that has absolutely 0 effect on the movie quality or my enjoyment. So I aint licking the man's boots.

For someone who was "against this casting" and all, your actions and posts speak otherwise.

 

[Boom]

Deadpool and Wolverine, a Multiverse-heavy action comedy with an 'R' rating, made $1.3 Billion (and counting) at the box office. It's the 7th highest grossing CBM of all time with an "A" Cinemascore.

Marvel Studios is not struggling financially and critically. Fan enthusiasm is at an all-time high right now.

And that movie coasted off of Fox's Deadpool movies and Hugh Jackman's extremely popular, Not-MCU Wolverine. How did Ant-Man 3 and The Marvels do?

If your aim here is to convince me I'm wrong in my assessment of things, you're wasting your time. I'm stubborn like that. If you're trying to prove me wrong in some way, I don't care enough to argue. Congrats on your internet win.