The film as a religious parable/analysis thread!

[Sarah the nerd]

I utterly love analysis of movies (film studies student ) so I thought I'd start a thread to discuss such things. I don't think there's been one yet, at least.

I really hope I don't sound too stupid, but anyway. Chime in with your own thoughts. Analyse anything!

On religion

I think there's more religious themes and imagery going on then I'm spotting, but I know there's something going on. Considering that the main themes of the film are forgiveness and redemption, after all...

So I'm going to really go out on a limb here and say that the film could easily be viewed as a religious parable, if the viewer wanted to see it that way. Like so:

Virtually everyone in the film has done something they need forgiving for- by the middle of the film, Peter's essentially killed someone, MJ's betrayed Peter's trust (by kissing Harry), Harry's tried to kill Peter, Eddie's lied, and you all know the Sandman story. Between them they've pretty much got all seven sins covered- MJ is envious of Peter, Harry's full of wrath, Eddie's nothing if not greedy, Peter's giving into pride. Etc.

And most of the characters want revenge. May says 'revenge makes you ugly'- through seeking revenge, Harry's had half his face burnt off, Flint appears in the final battle as a less-then-appealing giant sand monster, and Eddie has become a hideous slimy monster. For all the people complaining about Venom not having much screentime, I think it's because he's more of a metaphor in the film. As has been pointed out in at least one interview, Eddie is essentially what Peter would have been if he had been brought up in a less secure environment. In the movie, I reckon Eddie's a representation of Peter's dark side; the exact polar opposite of him. Peter's a good person at heart and so can throw off the symboite; Eddie's the sort of person who would pray to God to kill somebody, and the symboite turns him into a murderous monster. (which could almost be looked at as a punishment from God: be careful what you wish for and all that.) The symboite itself represents evil: the ultimate ugliness of revenge...

Anyway. Peter goes to church to rid himself of the evil and suceeds (although not without a struggle), but then Eddie, who refuses to believe he's done anything to require forgiveness and shifts the blame onto others (the sin of pride) gives into his own dark side.

Love is a part of religion, or at least it should be, and that's what motivates the others. MJ stands by Peter even after he's betrayed her too (by humiliating her in public- exactly what Venom said he'd do to Peter, come to think of it), and Harry goes to save Peter after being reminded that his friends love him. (If you really wanted to go crazy with analysis, you could say Norman represents the Devil: he tried to tempt Peter back in the first movie and has spent two movies trying to tempt Harry into murder). Sandman's love for his daughter is what redeems him.

Peter defeats the villain in the end because a) someone sacrifices themselves for him and b) because he remembers what he learnt in church (that sound affects the symboite badly, in case you've forgotten ). Can't get more religious then that, really.


Anyway. I'm done now. Please, someone say something.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

All I have to say is... don't pull religion into everything.

I'm done.

 

[Sarah the nerd]

Well, I'm not religious myself, not in the least, but I reckon it could be read that way, you know? Heck, you could probably turn it into a Buddist or even an atheist parable if you really wanted; that's the fun of it...

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I'd rather just refer to it all as cheese. t:

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

Forgiveness and redemption are definitely major themes from the film that tie in with religion.

 

[dodus]

A lot of the more insightful movie reviews I've read have also picked up on the religious symbolism. It's definitely there, and it's intricately tied up with the forgiveness theme. Church scene brings it all to a head...and then from there all symbology is abandoned in favor of a glorious summer action extravanganza.

 

[Tony Stark]

I too saw some Judeo/Cristian themes throughout the movie, and I don't doubt if you could find other religious themes, but coming from a Judeo/Christian background, that is what's most prevelant to me.

The theme of forgiveness obviously permeates the movie. I even heard Sam refer to Peter being a "sinner" just like the rest of us.

Peter grows prideful and vengeful and it tears apart everything he has.

Peter has the power to seek revenge through the suit, but he learns that the power to forgive is more powerful than anything that revenge can bring.

 

[Leenie]

I've always seen religious themes in Spider-Man- both in the comics and the movies.

I actually wrote a 12-page thesis paper 2 1/2 years ago, which was about the religious themes in the Spider-Man comics.

So, anyway, I'm just saying that I concur.

 

[Liquid Snake]

Its true, remember Peter stopping the train in SPiderman 2? I think Sam is responsible for this symbolism.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

All I have to say is... don't pull religion into everything.

I'm done.

Did you not watch the scene where Peter has reached an all-time low, hitting MJ....and then looks up a church?

Doesn't come any more obvious than that.

 

[Shmoil]

Well done, I would definitely agree with you. I think that this movie is much better when analyzed, moreso even than the first two. While the surface of the movie was disappointing (although I still like it), the sub-readings like this are what make a movie good for me these days, as I too am a film student.
I agree about the religious aspect. Especially when Peter says "If you want forgiveness, go to church". And then he later does go to a church to get rid of the black suit, to begin his search for forgiveness.
Now, I'm not a religious person at all, so it's not like I'm pulling religion into this movie, it's just something to be pulled out of the movie. Also, as for the Butler scene with Harry, it's no coincidence that the person who convinces Harry of the truth is an old man in a suit. Most religious figures today are old men in suits, and it seems Sam might have been giving them a nod in this film.
I also found the use of water interesting. Since water is often associated with being pure, and clean, I thought it was interesting that whenever a character's true self tried to shine past whatever surface feelings were occurring, it was through tears (water). Then Spidey "kills" Sandman with water, seemingly indicating that in his mind he was purifying Sandman. It just shows how much the Symbiote was affecting him. Or perhaps, since the water was rushing away from him, it was showing the purity as leaving Spider-Man. This movie has increased my respect for Sam Raimi.

 

[Shmoil]

Oops, double post.

 

[YJ1]

Anyway. Peter goes to church to rid himself of the evil and suceeds (although not without a struggle), but then Eddie, who refuses to believe he's done anything to require forgiveness and shifts the blame onto others (the sin of pride) gives into his own dark side.

Peter defeats the villain in the end because a) someone sacrifices themselves for him and b) because he remembers what he learnt in church (that sound affects the symboite badly, in case you've forgotten ). Can't get more religious then that, really.

Very good and very interesting analysis. I'm definitely going to be paying more attention to this theme the next time I watch the movie. Thanks.

 

[Donald Thomas]

I too saw some Judeo/Cristian themes throughout the movie, and I don't doubt if you could find other religious themes, but coming from a Judeo/Christian background, that is what's most prevelant to me.

The theme of forgiveness obviously permeates the movie. I even heard Sam refer to Peter being a "sinner" just like the rest of us.

Peter grows prideful and vengeful and it tears apart everything he has.

Peter has the power to seek revenge through the suit, but he learns that the power to forgive is more powerful than anything that revenge can bring.

Aloha,
Raimi has attempted with this third movie to expose the movie goers to the motivations of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. In the comics, Spider-Man does not kill, steal or abuse people with his power. There is a reason for that. It is his moral upbringing. This upbringing comes from Uncle Ben and Aunt May. Aunt May is and always has been Peter's Moral Compas regardless of any religious affiliation. Unlike a Kung Fu or Western movie where the hero seeks revenge-Spider-Man 3 had issues of Pride,jealousy, envy,revenge,hate,love,forgivness and reconciliation.All of those things happen within the comic book world of Spider-Man. Raimi showed those underlying principals in this movie. It requires that you see it at least twice.
Spidey rules the Box Office

 

[SamuraiSon6]

yes it certainly is there IF you want it to be there, thus is the case with most things in life. if you seek it, you will find it. it is very common for superheroes to be seen as saviours because of there self sacrifice and supernatural powers.

i too found it very interesting in the movie when pete lashes out at eddie in the bugle that he says "if you want forgiveness, get religion". before this, there has never been any mention that peter is religious or christian, etc. but simply by his good standing morales, one who is religious would certainly think he is. all of his previous actions in the third film which led to this point have basically told us that he has lost himself and lost his 'religion' as well.

 

[TarachnidX]

Wow great analysis! I had been thinking about this too but you have it more organized! Good for a future essay topic! One thing that just popped in my head, kinda going the other way but when Eddie prays for God to kill Peter, he probably thought he got his prayers answered with the symbiote given as a gift so he could destroy Parker himself!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I utterly love analysis of movies (film studies student ) so I thought I'd start a thread to discuss such things. I don't think there's been one yet, at least.

I really hope I don't sound too stupid, but anyway. Chime in with your own thoughts. Analyse anything!

On religion

I think there's more religious themes and imagery going on then I'm spotting, but I know there's something going on. Considering that the main themes of the film are forgiveness and redemption, after all...

So I'm going to really go out on a limb here and say that the film could easily be viewed as a religious parable, if the viewer wanted to see it that way. Like so:

Virtually everyone in the film has done something they need forgiving for- by the middle of the film, Peter's essentially killed someone, MJ's betrayed Peter's trust (by kissing Harry), Harry's tried to kill Peter, Eddie's lied, and you all know the Sandman story. Between them they've pretty much got all seven sins covered- MJ is envious of Peter, Harry's full of wrath, Eddie's nothing if not greedy, Peter's giving into pride. Etc.

And most of the characters want revenge. May says 'revenge makes you ugly'- through seeking revenge, Harry's had half his face burnt off, Flint appears in the final battle as a less-then-appealing giant sand monster, and Eddie has become a hideous slimy monster. For all the people complaining about Venom not having much screentime, I think it's because he's more of a metaphor in the film. As has been pointed out in at least one interview, Eddie is essentially what Peter would have been if he had been brought up in a less secure environment. In the movie, I reckon Eddie's a representation of Peter's dark side; the exact polar opposite of him. Peter's a good person at heart and so can throw off the symboite; Eddie's the sort of person who would pray to God to kill somebody, and the symboite turns him into a murderous monster. (which could almost be looked at as a punishment from God: be careful what you wish for and all that.) The symboite itself represents evil: the ultimate ugliness of revenge...

Anyway. Peter goes to church to rid himself of the evil and suceeds (although not without a struggle), but then Eddie, who refuses to believe he's done anything to require forgiveness and shifts the blame onto others (the sin of pride) gives into his own dark side.

Love is a part of religion, or at least it should be, and that's what motivates the others. MJ stands by Peter even after he's betrayed her too (by humiliating her in public- exactly what Venom said he'd do to Peter, come to think of it), and Harry goes to save Peter after being reminded that his friends love him. (If you really wanted to go crazy with analysis, you could say Norman represents the Devil: he tried to tempt Peter back in the first movie and has spent two movies trying to tempt Harry into murder). Sandman's love for his daughter is what redeems him.

Peter defeats the villain in the end because a) someone sacrifices themselves for him and b) because he remembers what he learnt in church (that sound affects the symboite badly, in case you've forgotten ). Can't get more religious then that, really.


Anyway. I'm done now. Please, someone say something.

Good stuff. Ignore any comments that you are reading into it - I've done Film Studies and some people just refuse to believe there is anything in a film besides what they themselves see (which is usually the explosions and cleavage).

 

[Mr. Socko]

Did you not watch the scene where Peter has reached an all-time low, hitting MJ....and then looks up a church?

Doesn't come any more obvious than that.

LMAO!


B**** didn't have his pie ready!

 

[JackMercy]

Oh this movie definitely wore its Christianity on its sleeve...

In this fair-minded viewer's opinion it was a little bit too message-y... kind of like another red & blue-clad hero's movie last year...

Most of you I'm sure have had a look at Raimi's recent EW interview... well if you read it again closely, you'll notice how blatantly honest he really is about it his themes...

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20035285_20035331_20037557,00.html

 

[DACrowe]

Well I think Raimi likes BIG AND BROAD metaphors and messages in his movie. The not so subtle image of Peter with his arms stretched out when stopping the train and essientially being "crucified," worked beautifully in SM2 as he was their savior. And it wasn't done in a preachy and pretentious way, either (coughSupermanReturnscough).

Interesting to me he uses a Christ pose of Eddie when the symbiote envelopes him, after showing Christ on the cross and setting the scene in a darkly lit church. Again, interesting as Eddie isn't a savior but a monster. Maybe a parallel to Pete's imagery as a hero in SM2? Both were obviously intentional but I don't know why he used it for Venom, though.

Anyway it is very much the Christian (New TEstament anyway) theory on forgiveness and vengance. You have Peter wanting revenge after being prideful on Sandman, Harry wanting vengence on Peter for the same reason Peter wants to kill Sandman, Eddie being a selfish little bastard who wants revenge on the whole world and Aunt May, the good saintly Christian lady preaching forgivness.

Even MJ is in need of forgiveness after she kisses Harry and has been envious enough of Peter for the whole film to agree to break up with him. I think her leaving Peter was as much her own weakness as Harry's threat, because she wanted out and took this as an excuse. At the end Peter finds redemption by freieng himself of his darker feelings and forgives Flint Marko. Harry forgives Pete and redeems himself and in the last scene Pete and MJ forgive each other for all the cruel things they did to each other in this movie (the negatives leaning more towards Pete than MJ).

Eddie chooses not to see his sins and can't forgive anyone. He is not possible of redemption because he embraces vengence. He is vengence's true disgusting form and what Peter would have been if he hadn't found forgiveness by the end of the movie. That is why Eddie had to die and while he had the least amount of screentime he was thematically the biggest villain and the one who was sthe daunting task to defeat for Peter and had to cost Harry his life to do so.

 

[Wams]

Well, I'm not religious myself, not in the least, but I reckon it could be read that way, you know? Heck, you could probably turn it into a Buddist or even an atheist parable if you really wanted; that's the fun of it...

An athiest parable???

 

[FNSpidey]

Nice thread. I don't know why I noticed it just now.

Well, Sarah, I agree with everything you said in your analysis, except one thing. I'm not sure religion should be considered a vital part of this. Vengeance, forgiveness and redemption are universal themes and they don't necessarily need religion to envelop them all, so I think your analysis works equally well without bringing certain religious aspects to the mix. The imagery sure is there, but I think it is meant to represent "the right thing to do", rather than specific religious teachings or "finding God".
I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't need to be religious to find redemption and do what is right and the movie is more about that than any Christian philosophy.

Or is that what you were saying in the first place?

 

[dodus]

Nice thread. I don't know why I noticed it just now.

Well, Sarah, I agree with everything you said in your analysis, except one thing. I'm not sure religion should be considered a vital part of this. Vengeance, forgiveness and redemption are universal themes and they don't necessarily need religion to envelop them all, so I think your analysis works equally well without bringing certain religious aspects to the mix. The imagery sure is there, but I think it is meant to represent "the right thing to do", rather than specific religious teachings or "finding God".
I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't need to be religious to find redemption and do what is right and the movie is more about that than any Christian philosophy.

Or is that what you were saying in the first place?

Here, here! I totally agree. (I think that's what Sarah meant too). I don't think Christianity was intentionally spotlighted, if anything it approached religion from a sociology perspective, showing how the theme of redemption and forgiveness affected all the characters in their own way. When Peter tells Eddie to "find religion", I was surprised that a line that cynical made it into a summer blockbuster!

 

[Mr. Socko]

Wtf is this...Lord of The Rings!

 

[FatA$$]

who the **** cares if the movie is a religious parable cant anyone just watch a movie and enjoy it anymore without picking it apart and making judgements