The Flash The Flash Season 4 Episode 15: "Enter Flashtime"

[Avenging Angel]

She "took what she already knew" from the individuals who come up with it before her because they knew how to.

It all seemed convenient to cater to her having the answer right before he was about to give up. Again, why weren't the scientists who know more about the speed force helping him in the end? Caitlin and Cisco were the brains directly involved in the operation to bring back Barry and that was the key in case while Iris was busy "being strong" and pretending to order everyone around without the skills to do so. Cisco and Caitlin as metas didn't need their powers, it was their know how, their intelligence in the matter, but Iris needed another plus one.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Did you watch the episode?

 

[Babillygunn]

Anyhoo. Who is Jay training?

 

[Flash525]

Did they essentially just retire Jay there? Why? Was it a little miscommunication too, or was it implied that Jay was going to give his speed to someone else once he'd finished training her? ...or does someone else on his Earth already have the speedforce (Avery?), and he's simply taken her under his wing...

In any case, I thought this was a rather good episode; a nice mix of speedsters (although that Wells-Jessie scene kind of came out of nowhere - not once had it previously been mentioned that their strained relationship had been due to the mothers death) and for once, Barry had a real life or death dilemma to deal with. I guess that bomb is one thing DeVoe didn't quite count on (unless it was him that leaked the location to the terrorist?)

And of course Iris saves the day.

What's worse is that those words "we are the Flash" were once again uttered.

Anyhoo. Who is Jay training?

My money is on Avery. I'm not familiar with any other female Speedsters, other than Jessie.

 

[Babillygunn]

Hadn’t considered Avery.

Only other girll speedsters I can think of would be Meena or Liberty Bell.

 

[confused]

Problems abound with the episode.
The ending of the episode tried to imply that a female flash (girl-power) is a new thing (possible-daughter/relative-from-the-future-female-flash) thus the so-called 'surprise/not-quite-taken-aback' reaction from the others when Jay said he was going to train a new flash 'she'.
Again with the trying-too-hard method because somehow they seem to have forgotten the female speedster (JesseQuick) in the same episode who could have inherited Jay's 'Flash' title. Seems redundant.
What was she, chopped liver? Why did she even go to another earth in the first place? Couldn't she have trained with Jay Garrick?
It's as if the writers/directors/producers were trying to cram every bit of girl-power into the show while ignoring the 'creative-flow' from other episodes.

 

[confused]

What's worse is that those words "we are the Flash" were once again uttered.

Agreed

I kept imagining Iris saying "We are the Flash" while trying to 'help-coordinate' team Flash from the console in StarLabs when suddenly Reverse-Flash reappears and vibrospeed-shoves his arm while saying "No you are not. Dodge this."

 

[shabadoo25]

Problems abound with the episode.
The ending of the episode tried to imply that a female flash (girl-power) is a new thing (possible-daughter/relative-from-the-future-female-flash) thus the so-called 'surprise/not-quite-taken-aback' reaction from the others when Jay said he was going to train a new flash 'she'.
Again with the trying-too-hard method because somehow they seem to have forgotten the female speedster (JesseQuick) in the same episode who could have inherited Jay's 'Flash' title. Seems redundant.
What was she, chopped liver? Why did she even go to another earth in the first place? Couldn't she have trained with Jay Garrick?
It's as if the writers/directors/producers were trying to cram every bit of girl-power into the show while ignoring the 'creative-flow' from other episodes.

Since Violette Beane got a new show to star in, we may be seeing the last of Jessie Quick.

Hence, a replacement female speedster.

 

[edwardc]

So my question is who is the girl that meet with HR and caitlyn is she the other speeder Jay was training .

 

[Primal Slayer]

Jesse can't protect E2 and E3 so it made sense not to mention her taking over the role. Though I wouldn't have mentioned it all and waited until they had a replacement and made it its own episode.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I think it was one of the better episodes of The Flash.

Some of you folks really have a mad-on for Iris.

After numerous light-hearted episodes this season, they reminded us that they can still bring stand-alone dramatic eps to the mix.

I also don't get the aversion to Iris. She and Barry have been developed quite well this season.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Did you watch the episode?

Thoroughly. Did you?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Thoroughly. Did you?

Well then lol they made it kind of clear throughut the episode of everything going on. Joe was under mass fire, they had a nuclear bomb, everyone who can step up, steps up. Even if they hadn't, it would've gone the same way. Cisco can you breach it? Caitlin can you freeze it? Can 3 speedsters throw some lightning at it? They went through the steps that very much made sense for them to do. And in the end Iris didn't even do any quantum physics or anything fancy, she remembered something and she offered her opinion.

 

[Guard82]

This was a strong episode and I liked how it focused on giving Barry a huge physical and mental challenge with no obvious solution in sight. Grant Gustin's acting was once again superb.

 

[Guard82]

She "took what she already knew" from the individuals who come up with it before her because they knew how to.

It all seemed convenient to cater to her having the answer right before he was about to give up. Again, why weren't the scientists who know more about the speed force helping him in the end? Caitlin and Cisco were the brains directly involved in the operation to bring back Barry and that was the key in case while Iris was busy "being strong" and pretending to order everyone around without the skills to do so. Cisco and Caitlin as metas didn't need their powers, it was their know how, their intelligence in the matter, but Iris needed another plus one.

The reason Iris thought up the solution to the problem is because she remembered learning about the Speed Force lightning rod device from working with Cisco and Caitlin, who were the ones who developed it. Since Iris is basically in a manager's position at Star Labs, it's part of her job to keep informed about all the major developments in the lab, so it makes sense that she would remember the lightning rod device. It was still Cisco and Caitlin's scientific work; Iris simply remembered it from working with both of them.

Barry couldn't get the solution directly from Cisco or Caitlin because he had already brought them into Flashtime to try other possible solutions, and he couldn't go back to them again because non-speedsters can't stay in Flashtime for very long. Iris was still available to bring into Flashtime for a conversation, but Cisco and Caitlin weren't because they had already been in Flashtime and had gotten exhausted from it.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Well then lol they made it kind of clear throughut the episode of everything going on. Joe was under mass fire, they had a nuclear bomb, everyone who can step up, steps up. Even if they hadn't, it would've gone the same way. Cisco can you breach it? Caitlin can you freeze it? Can 3 speedsters throw some lightning at it? They went through the steps that very much made sense for them to do. And in the end Iris didn't even do any quantum physics or anything fancy, she remembered something and she offered her opinion.

What didn't make sense was why throwing it in the speed force was such a risk. Has Harry proved to be wrong before when it was dire? He understands the speed force better than anyone on the team next to Cisco. Having Iris "just know" "remember on the spot" at the same time Barry wanted to give up as opposed to Harry, Caitlin and Cisco who came to that conclusion first by doing the real work to get there was ludicrous. They are erasing Cisco and Caitlin's value on the team just to prop up Iris' fake value. Their initial credit was removed and replaced by Iris' on the top. Why? That made zero sense to me.

 

[Primal Slayer]

They addressed why they couldnt throw it in the Speed Force. Jay whose been around a long time was absolutely against it and it could effect everyone whose connected to the Speedforce. That's a risk you don't take.

And Harry/Caitlin/Cisco had already been "fried" and couldn't be risked to be taken into flash time again, Barry would've killed them. Iris hadn't been touched yet and he wanted to say goodbye to his wife, his lightning rod since day 1 of the show. She wasn't even thinking about it until Barry brought up lightning and she clearly was shown to do some thinking.

And what credit?

 

[LTuser]

Taking the "we are the flash" to the next level.

Spoiler

The entire episode was shot to cater to Iris, because she always has the answer. She's apparently is an expert in the speed force, knowing nothing about it before. Killer Frost and Cisco were depowered for no reason, Vibe could have done way more, so did Frost. Harry's intelligence was reduced and in it's place, melodrama with Jesse. Jay was heavily underused because now he is an "old man."

Just a mess. Really hated the majority of the episode.

Frost/vibe were explained as not being able to use their powers, cause they require TIME to use them. so how could they have done more when 'flash-timed with barry"?

But i do agree, Harry was gimped all over his melodrama..

Solid episode but weird to not try and track Wallace down to help. I would think finding him would be easier than jumping to another Earth finding Jay. Unless they knew Jay was just chilling at home.

Wallace?? Do you mean wally west?

I really liked the episode.

The stuff with Harry seemed like they could’ve set that up in earlier episodes/seasons.

Some of y’all are putting too much on Iris “saving the day”. It’s like whenever HR suggested some idea that actually worked when everyone else was overthinking or not thinking outside the box enough.

And since they were getting physically exhausted from being in 'flash-time' their minds may not have been 'chipper' enough to think properly.

She's got a psychology degree, which alone denotes above average intelligence at least. She also learned investigative skills from her father, which Joe once said made her an excellent candidate for police work. Everything about her back story was designed for a character who has learned to think critically from an early age.

Very true. SHe has been an investigative reporter, so critical thinking is in her 'ball park'..

I thought the episode was great, except for the glaring issue of, Jesse can go to another earth to get Jay, and come back, but they can't grab the bomb and bring it to the earth that's already a wasteland.

So that was kinda goofy.

IIRC they mentioned grabbing the bomb and trying to move it would cause IT to get sped up, thus the reaction would quicken and, explode earlier..

Also, all the Flash decided city-wide death was better than changing the past 10 minutes (that have not happened so any timequake possibly negligible). That's cold .

Heck, had barry been thinknig, just doing a 2 minute back time jump, to get there and stop the baddies from even OPENING The crate up, would have prevented the explosion.

How did Jesse get Jay Garrick? When did they meet? How did she get to earth-wherever-Jay-came-from without Cisco?

It's already been established if a speedster runs fast enough, the can open a breach.

Anyhoo. Who is Jay training?

They didn't answer that.. Hopefully we might find out later.

So my question is who is the girl that meet with HR and caitlyn is she the other speeder Jay was training .

No clue, but she seems fixated on killer frost, and JUST "happened" to spill on them, just after Katlin mentioned her issue..

 

[Travesty]

Maybe the girl is who Jay is training, since he did say it was a female?

 

[confused]

Since Violette Beane got a new show to star in, we may be seeing the last of Jessie Quick.

Hence, a replacement female speedster.

Thank you. That explains why she couldn't be the new flash on Jay's earth.

Doesn't explain why she had to go to earth-3 in the first place. That's like Wally West leaving his earth to become KidFlash on earth-random-number because he felt unneeded as one flash is enough for one town/city/country/earth, which this episode made ironic since they actually needed more speedsters .

 

[confused]

They addressed why they couldnt throw it in the Speed Force. Jay whose been around a long time was absolutely against it and it could effect everyone whose connected to the Speedforce. That's a risk you don't take.

Jay thought the SpeedForce dimension(?) might be destroyed by the blast thus risking the connection to every Speedster, depowering them.
City-wide+Friends and Family Death versus No more speedsters.
Kinda cold .

And Harry/Caitlin/Cisco had already been "fried" and couldn't be risked to be taken into flash time again, Barry would've killed them. Iris hadn't been touched yet and he wanted to say goodbye to his wife, his lightning rod since day 1 of the show. She wasn't even thinking about it until Barry brought up lightning and she clearly was shown to do some thinking.

He didn't even try to say goodbye to Joe, his father figure, who was also there at the scene, who taught(?) Iris her investigative skills(?). The guy who has seen/been in a lightning strike situation more than once? It could have gone like...

Flash: Joe, i'm sorry, we couldn't stop the blast, we tried sending it away, freezing it, throw lightning at it, it didn't work.
(quick back-and-forth)
Joe: Why'd you throw lightning at a bomb?
(more back-and-forth)
Joe: You need more lightning? Hey remember that time you got hit by lightning? How about the one where the SpeedForce shot out a lot of lightning at the city? Can't you use that?
Flash: superspeed epiphany!

Instead we got...
Flash: imma gonna go cry to my wife instead of getting my speed-booster device thus prolonging my flashtime, or get KidFlash here.
Iris: we gonna die...let me think superfast...you can't breach it? Are you sure? Did you try the speed-booster device? What about my brother Wally West? What about time-travel? It's only a few minutes...what about my father...what about Cecile and the baby?...Hey what about supergirl? I bet she could help fly the bomb away...Why'd you throw lightning at a bomb...
Hey remember those lightning strikes from the city-destroying SpeedForce you conveniently forgot?
Or the fact that we used your genetic marker to trick the SpeedForce into letting you go?
You can use that as a lightning rod to draw the lightning strikes to the bomb.
The Dark Matter that might be unleashed making the blast even worse?
Should i curse everyone in the warehouse to turn into metas?
How do i know there won't be too much lightning strike when the doohickey is gone from the SpeedForce thus creating the same city-destroying problem from brfore?
Will the lightning even go for the genetic marker thrown at the bomb instead of the bigger target which is you?
What happens when the doohickey is gone and the SpeedForce goes back to trying to trap you?
Do i know enough quantum physics to sound/look confident about all of this?
I'mma sure it'll be fine. I know it's gonna work.

 

[Herolee10]

Just saw the full episode myself. Overall, I actually liked it.

Honestly, if this had been season 1, I wouldn't have minded Iris's contribution towards solving the nuclear bomb problem since the solution that she offered wasn't based off of knowledge in science.

That said, I wish they would stop having her character say the infamous "We are the Flash" line.

The whole "We are the Flash" line is one of the Arrowverse's most politically charged comment that I can think of and to constantly force that down our throats just makes me roll my eyes. In fact, I try to avoid any pep talk scenes between the two in fear that she'll utter those cringe worthy words again.

Iris's infamous line, Sara's portrayal as the infallible and only competent hero in the Legends, Felicity's portrayal in Season 4, and even Superman's usage in Supergirl's Season 2 finale is the reason why I've given up on most of the Arrowverse.

 

[Flash525]

So my question is who is the girl that meet with HR and caitlyn is she the other speeder Jay was training.

I have no doubt that the girl is a speedster, but not the one Jay is training. The girl who has yet to be named, I'm convinced is Dawn Allen (Barry & Iris' daughter).

Why? Because she has a fascination with the Barry, and she may be from a timeline that has since changed. I can't remember where it was that I read it now, but in the latest episode some have stated she seemed ... evil or dark after Wells & Caitlyn left, and the theory I read about is simply that from [her] time, Killer Frost had become evil and untrustworthy - and so naturally she'd be weary of Caitlyn.

Also, when Barry returned from the Speedforce, and was all crazy, didn't he also utter the words "Dawn shouldn't be here" and something to do with twins and diapers?

 

[LTuser]

That said, I wish they would stop having her character say the infamous "We are the Flash" line.

I agree. Its imo as stupid as a military spouse saying "we are an admiral/commander etc..."

 

[Avenging Angel]

Maybe the girl is who Jay is training, since he did say it was a female?

I don't think it's her. She doesn't give off those vibes.