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The Flash The Flash Season 5, Episode 8 - “What’s Past is Prologue” (100th Episode!!)

Only took them one scene to get caught and possibly screw things up. Zoom should have been able to grab Nora.

I think Sherlock might die or get replaced if he gets too close.

At least they give some reason why Nora is always annoying me in some way. If she is working with Thawn it could be why she meddles and acts really childish.

I think once Cicada is caught, Sherlock will leave
 
All of this because they cant use their powers when near Cicada...may be time to learn some hand2hand combat.
Between them, you'd think they'd be able to disarm him, wouldn't you?

So Nora was originally Dawn in the original timeline...I can dig it.
That, or Nora has a sister named Dawn (being that Thawne, at that time, presumably hadn't met any of Barry's kids).

He was the best villain to date. Too bad that was only in Season 1.
I think this is just a case of Tom trying to take on too much. Most of him [as Thawne] that we've seen, he's seems to have lost the darkness that he had playing Thawne back in S1.

How did I know we would get ANOTHER Wells.
Pretty sure that's the Wells that Barry let go after Flashpoint or Crisis on Earth-X, although I don't remotely understand how he's still wearing Tom's face.

Not so sure there aren't. Is that Earth X Thrawn or a version of Season 1 Thrawn? Could Barry and Nora going back to interact with him have given that Thrawn another option he did not have before, that would not lead to his death..?
There are so many versions of Thawne running around through time. Some of them are dead or have met defeat, others were allowed to carry on their business because of Barry's naivety.

So I take it that this means that Nora is still a only child in this or previous timelines. Well, there goes my hope for seeing the tornado twins.
It's too early to say. Either she has siblings, or she had siblings; maybe she did something that erased them from time, and she's working with Thawne to restore a timeline where they're not erased?

Really great episode and noce to see zoom back again. If it isnt obvious going forward in the 2nd half of the season reverse flash will be the main villian i don't know what to say. Didnt they affect the timeline in a big way when zoom followed them and the time wrath took him?
I was thinking this. If the Wraith took Zoom then (which we clearly saw happen) they Zoom should have been defeated there and then, thus the timeline from thereafter shouldn't have happened, and in turn Savitar shouldn't have came to be. Savitar is a Barry that was created to defeat Zoom. If there's no Zoom to defeat, there's no duplicate Barry, and if there's no Duplicate Barry, there's no Savitar.
 
Great Episode. It's been a couple of years since I sat through a full episode of Flash and enjoyed it. Thawn returning was awesome .
 
I was thinking this. If the Wraith took Zoom then (which we clearly saw happen) they Zoom should have been defeated there and then, thus the timeline from thereafter shouldn't have happened, and in turn Savitar shouldn't have came to be. Savitar is a Barry that was created to defeat Zoom. If there's no Zoom to defeat, there's no duplicate Barry, and if there's no Duplicate Barry, there's no Savitar.
My guess either Zoom manages to get away from the wraith this time (which could explain why multiple go on to attack him in the finale) or simply that the wraith just took him out of the speed force to preserve the timeline.
 
If there's one big obstacle here that doesn't make sense, is that at no point in the future did anyone tell Nora (or did Nora read) that Barry's Mom was killed, and in turn the alledged circumstances about it. Wells (Thawne-Wells) even released that video admitting to it. How is/was Nora not aware?

If this is Earth X Thrawn, then he has been on Earth 1 since that crossover, which means he could be working with Nora in the future. He looked pretty old there. And the same if their going back in time gave Season 1 Thrawn an option he didn't have previously, and so he could be alive still and in the future, again working somehow with Nora.
Who is this Thrawn character? :p

I don't get why he'd keep that face in the future either, I get it from the shows perspective, Matt (Letcher) probably wasn't available, but from a realistic point of view, it makes no sense.

Did/do exist in a timeline. Season 1 Thawne asks if Nora is Dawn and then makes a comment about how Barry’s time traveling means he still has at least one of his kids left.

I pretty much predicted that Nora was working with Eobard and I'm sure we will get a flashback episode later this season on how they formed this unsteady alliance. Also how could Eobard Thawne still be alive if Eddie killed himself? It wouldn't surprise me if the Reverse Flash teams up with Cicada later this season.
I believe Thawne, as he stands, is an anomaly. I don't understand, nor will I attempt to understand the logistics of that; with Eddie out of the picture, his linage should have ended there, but for whatever reason, it hasn't. Maybe the Flashpoint timeline actually has Eddie alive somewhere - just not in Central City, and thus that's the reason Eobard is able to live on?

Anyway this was a pretty good 100th episode. it was great seeing the Reverse Flash and Zoom again. I wish we saw more of Zoom but I guess Teddy Sears was busy at the time and I'm glad that he had the time to do this. I'm surprised we didn't get a lot of Iris in this episode.
I must admit, I didn't expect to see any new scenes from Savitar or Zoom. Was good to get a couple.

I heard some fans speculate that Dawn is Nora's twin as a result of Nora going back to the past or that Nora was called Dawn in the original timeline when Barry's mother was still alive.
Either makes sense.

I don't watch Legends but didn't they have a Thawn? That would prove they can exist in other times, just because S1 was killed does not mean he is erased from existence. He was constantly time traveling.
They had a Thawne, yeah, he was easily the best part of their second season. He was however erased from existence at the end of Season 2 though.

My guess either Zoom manages to get away from the wraith this time (which could explain why multiple go on to attack him in the finale) or simply that the wraith just took him out of the speed force to preserve the timeline.
Well that's easily one explanation, hah. Damn you! ;)
 
I loved the episode. It was a great celebration of the show and everything that it has done over the past several seasons. Happy 100 episodes!
 
I liked the episode. Ralph was right... it was the perfect time to play that song.

To be honest, I was annoyed with seeing another Eobard. I assume the 2049 one is the one we saw in the Crisis on Earth X crossover since he still had Wells' face (for whatever in-story reason). I really hoped his time on Legends was the end of him as a "present" character.
 
Is Sherloque really Thawne? He's acting suspiciously and didn't he use the same phrase as Thawne Wells ("clever girl")?

Maybe Nora is working with future Thawne to try to get Barry back. Perhaps she's struck some deal with him.

Since their plan to go back to the past to get various items to use against Cicada didn't work, then they did that all for nothing. They needed Killer Frost all along. Why didn't they think of using her earlier since they should've known her powers don't come from dark matter?
 
If there's one big obstacle here that doesn't make sense, is that at no point in the future did anyone tell Nora (or did Nora read) that Barry's Mom was killed, and in turn the alledged circumstances about it. Wells (Thawne-Wells) even released that video admitting to it. How is/was Nora not aware?
You would think Iris would say something. Especially if Nora caught Thawne in that world, Iris would mention how this man killed your grandmother.
 
Except it's clear Iris in the future is a massive control freak. With reasons, of course, but we know she and Nora don't get along because of it. And since Iris was hiding Nora's powers we can assume that she was telling her daughter next to nothing that was important. From Nora, we know that she learned all she does know about Flash and his Rogues from the museum and not her mom. And since Thrawn killing her grandmother was, apparently, not in the museum then she wouldn't know of it.
 
Yeah it’s important to note all Nora knows about Barry comes from the Flash museum, which as far as we know has nothing about any of the hero’s personal life and endevuers. Future Iris apparently doesn’t talk about any of that either. So we can guess that, as of now, everything Nora knows about Barry comes from Eobard, who wouldn’t reveal any kind of information like that if it wasn’t going to help his cause.
 
Anyone make a list of all the heroes shown on the Old Flash's earth?
 
To be honest, I was annoyed with seeing another Eobard. I assume the 2049 one is the one we saw in the Crisis on Earth X crossover since he still had Wells' face (for whatever in-story reason). I really hoped his time on Legends was the end of him as a "present" character.
He has to be that one, though the reason for his Wells-face remains ominous. The show reason will be because Matt Letcher couldn't dedicate himself to the season (Thawne will no doubt become the antagonist either toward the end of S4, or through S5). I do hope there's an storyline reason though, other than "I like this face so I'm keeping it" cause that's just lazy.

Is Sherloque really Thawne? He's acting suspiciously and didn't he use the same phrase as Thawne Wells ("clever girl")?
Nah, I doubt he's Thawne; that would be far too cheesy - but then this is the Flash, so who knows. Hah!

Maybe Nora is working with future Thawne to try to get Barry back. Perhaps she's struck some deal with him.
This seems the most likely outcome, though Barry (future Barry) vanished with Thawne didn't he? Maybe Thawne for whatever reason actually needs Barry to come back too; I can't think what other reason he'd have to help Nora.

I must confess too, but surely there's got to be a way to undo what Thawne initially did in with killing Nora (Barry's Mom, not Daughter). In the original timeline (the one we never got to see) Barry's Mom didn't die, and yet he still becme the Flash, so it was Thawne that was first to screw up the timeline and change things, and that change can't be a fixed point in time because it's already been changed once.

Could it also be (somehow) that the future Nora Jr is from is one where Thawne didn't kill Nora Sr, and that's why she had no recollection of it? Could it be that Nora Jr's future was (or still is) the very original timeline? I don't know how that would make sense (how would she even get there if that isn't the future) but it would explain a few things and open a couple of doors.

Since their plan to go back to the past to get various items to use against Cicada didn't work, then they did that all for nothing. They needed Killer Frost all along. Why didn't they think of using her earlier since they should've known her powers don't come from dark matter?
Sometimes the obvious has a way of staring you in the face, and you still don't see it. ;)

You would think Iris would say something. Especially if Nora caught Thawne in that world, Iris would mention how this man killed your grandmother.
If you'll read my reply to Dark Raven above, I'm wondering whether it's possible that Nora is from a/the future before Thawne went back and killed Nora.

Except it's clear Iris in the future is a massive control freak. With reasons, of course, but we know she and Nora don't get along because of it. And since Iris was hiding Nora's powers we can assume that she was telling her daughter next to nothing that was important. From Nora, we know that she learned all she does know about Flash and his Rogues from the museum and not her mom. And since Thrawn killing her grandmother was, apparently, not in the museum then she wouldn't know of it.
Except Nora idolised Barry, so she should at least have researched a bit about him; and found out what happened to her grandparents?

Anyone make a list of all the heroes shown on the Old Flash's earth?
I believe (if my memory serves me correctly) we've got the following;
  • The Flash (a Barry Allen version)
  • Green Arrow
  • Huntress
  • Hawkgirl (or) Hawkman (maybe both?)
  • Firestorm was mentioned somewhere
  • Stargirl
  • Captain Cold
  • The Ray
  • And possibly Jessie Quick
 
Why is Sherloque saying "clever girl" in the same way as Thawne though? That seems a bit coincidental. It's almost as if they're hinting at something.

Since we never got to see the original timeline, they should do a Season 0 that precedes Season 1 to show what life was like before Thawne went to kill Nora. Or at least dedicate an episode or two to it if not a whole season. It won't be Flashpoint, because it wouldn't have even involved any time travel, so there wouldn't be that problem. Then we can see Thawne changing the timeline at the end.

In fact, that would've been a good thing to have for the 100th episode. If they waited until the 200th, they'd be all too old to play their pre-Season 1 counterparts.
 
Why is Sherloque saying "clever girl" in the same way as Thawne though? That seems a bit coincidental. It's almost as if they're hinting at something
I don't know, but Sherloque just seems too different a character to Thawne for them to be one and the same. Maybe Sherloque is [his] Earth's Thawne (in disguise) which may allude to the similarities, which seems a stretch at best, but I very much doubt he is [our] Thawne.

In fact, that would've been a good thing to have for the 100th episode. If they waited until the 200th, they'd be all too old to play their pre-Season 1 counterparts.
I wouldn't want an entire season of it, but I wouldn't mind a two or three part episode on it; that's all it would need really, maybe four episodes. Arrow has flashbacks (I believe we even had the odd Arrow episode that was an entire flashback at one point) or we've had episodes specific to a character or two that take away from the main plot.

If we're truly going into Eobard territory, we're going to need to see what originally transpired between Barry & Thawne, and we're going to need to find out about it sooner rather than later. My only ... concern, is that such a thing should also be endgame, but it's obviously too early for that at the moment. I do struggle somewhat to think who the upcoming seasonal villains are going to be though. We've had the main speedsters (except for Godspeed?) but do we really want more evil speedsters? It's a real shame the rogues didn't take off.
 
I think Sherloque saying that in the way he did is because he doesn't trust her. He's the only one who keeps questioning her on things or hinting at how she knows things.
 
Sherloque was definitely on to her. Him saying "clever girl" was almost sarcastic, because he knew she didn't come up with the idea on her own. That's why he started creeping on her throughout the episode.
 
They should've just made Sherloque a more regular Wells who was not a caricature. If he wanted to be Sherlock Wells, then play him without an accent or silly mannerisms. Just another smart version of Wells but with different skills to E1 or E2 Wells.
 
So if we’re going with the idea that this Eobard is the same one from COEX, was just thinking that’s interesting since that was the first time we were introduced to Nora as well. Would make sense that that would be an event Eobard would send her back to.
 
They should've just made Sherloque a more regular Wells who was not a caricature. If he wanted to be Sherlock Wells, then play him without an accent or silly mannerisms. Just another smart version of Wells but with different skills to E1 or E2 Wells.

This. Really wish this. The French accent is really distracting. If not getting Harry back,, then I would much prefer a more 'normal' Wells.
 
This. Really wish this. The French accent is really distracting. If not getting Harry back,, then I would much prefer a more 'normal' Wells.

Having Sherlock Wells (instead of Sherloque Wells) would've been an asset to the team. He may not be a scientist, but he can see things no-one else can see. He doesn't even really seem like a permanent fixture anyway but someone only temporary. Had he been more normal and not a caricature, he could've been more permanent, and people would've welcomed him more easily.
 
The Sherloque thing is bloody awful, and a prime example of the kind of valid criticism those who dislike the Arrowverse bring up.

On a more positive note, I’m looking forward to Elseworlds so damn much.

The multiverse should be the core of the entire DC live action project, but for now I’ll settle for this.
 
They are saying that this crossover is going to set up next years. I'm hoping for a Crisis event!

1 day to go!!
 
I think sherloque is saying clever girl because he stumbled upon something the others don't know, it has to do with the symbols barry was writing when he first came back from the speedforce, which is exactly the same as whats in nora's book. He's putting pieces to a puzzle together but hasn't told the others yet, probably becaues its all speculation until he finds out more to prove his point.

As for zoom, theoretically he should've been able to catch nora no problem, reason being the zoom at that moment in the time line was already ridiculously fast, he then just stole barry's speed making him even faster...However the version of barry with nora that showed up would smoke zoom easily now. After barry lost his speed but then regained it, I believe he also gained more speed or somehow developed the will to go faster because he was just as fast as zoom when they raced, they were pretty much neck and neck so barry at that point was already on par with zoom. Savitar is faster than zoom, and current barry after being in the speedforce and soaking up some of its energy is even faster than savitar, even wally commented saying he had never seen any speedster go that fast, that would include both zoom and savitar...plus what other speedster has phased and busted through one of star labs prisons for meta's the way barry did when joe kept telling him "iris is gonna die"....anyways I think the reason the timeline wasn't affected was because when zoom was grabbed by the wraith they were traveling in the speedforce or as i like to the call it the tunnel of time, so that's maybe why it never changed the whole savitar scenario, ect.

btw barry probably protected nora so zoom wouldn't catch her by blocking him and keeping infront of him so nora was out of the way, don't matter they got away anyways.
 
Sherloque has grown on me. shrug
 

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