The Flash The Flash Season 1, Episode 22 "Rogue Air" General Discussion

[fantasymoon]

This episode was very underwhelming.

Can't stand Captain Cold. Every episode he's in brings it way down. Utterly flummoxed that it seems he's in the finale as well.

Cisco- Emotional reactions for him seem to still be beneath the writers. He's still a walking punch line above everything else.

Wells- my favorite character has, since the Trap, turned into a complete ham. I am not happy.

Can't stand the shipping crap so it's a testament to how lowbrow this episode was that the bulk of the emotional weight I was looking for came from the Eddie and Iris scenes.

Catlin- so she registers Ronnie exists again? Aww writers. Still don't care though and neither did she for many , many episodes.

Joe- so he's against the meta human prison and always has been. Since when writers?

However,the most egregious scene in the episode, if not the show, for me was this:

I honestly was completely disgusted by the fight. So apparently Arrow has two shows. Yes, lets make the regular human take down Barry's big bad. Oh wait this show is called The Flash. Really? Could have fooled me. I was already wary of Firestorm and the regular human showing up in the battle between Wells and Barry in the first place, since you know this isn't their damn show,but as long as the final blow was Barry's I could overlook it a bit.

We've been waiting all season for the reveal and personal battle between the TITLE character and his villain. Instead we get a should have been useless human getting not one, but two decisive blows on a being that is faster than Barry. I laughed derisively when Barry said "Got You" to a comatose Wells. Like hell you did. The writing for this fight was (second)fastest man alive can't take guns from two regular people kind of lunacy. The fact Arrow even touched him let along beat him just ughhhhhhhhh

I'm aware we have one episode left so maybe the actual real fight between the hero and his villain will happen there, and if so word to the wise writers this show is called The Flash keep regular humans, and other meta's, out this time. Thanks.

On a more shallow note the reverse flash costume is hideous.Both in it's loud ugly color and effectiveness in looking badass. It's doesn't look good on Wells and never has. I prefer him in his regular clothes.

Also the overall cgi for this show is not good. The only time I've not thought this was the plastique episode, the tsunami, and Ronnie's fire.

 

[SuperAl]

Loved the GL tease. I really hope they introduce him at some point in a later season. Just turn CW into DC television already!

 

[Infinity9999x]

Fantasymoon, in terms of Ollie getting in shots on RF...that's just something you're going to have to stomach. It happens in the comics all the time, it's going to happen in this show. It's an unfortunate fact of life with speedsters. Writers have to dumb them down, because if they're really written to their potential...they're essentially invincible. In reality, characters like Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, hell ANYONE that isn't a speedster should be a cakewalk for Barry to take down...but that's just not interesting.

Is it annoying sometimes? Of course. And it can bug me too. It's the same kind of thinking that gives us the "Batgod" that can somehow take down the justice league (ridiculous). But the normal man that can fight metas has been a part of comic history almost since the inception of comic books. It's not going anywhere.

As for the fight, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, the CGI isn't great, but you have to remember, this is the CW. It's one of the lower end cable shows. This isn't Netflix or HBO. So for what they have to work with, they were fine. And we obviously know we're going to get the real showdown in the finale. I personally wouldn't be surprised if we see Wells pulling a Joker/Loki/Skyfall "I only let you think I had been captured when really it was my plan all along!" Thing.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Loved the GL tease. I really hope they introduce him at some point in a later season. Just turn CW into DC television already!

I am seriously starting to wonder if they have the go ahead on something GL related, the GL teases have been getting less and less subtle, with Coast city shown and now Hal directly referenced I wonder if something's up.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Some posters don't have original thoughts so therefore jump onto the popular/accepted/in favour "love everything criticise nothing" mentality because it's the safest route.

They might genuinely love everything, and that's actually fine, but they have absolutely no way of arguing the point or being able to understand any kind of criticism. They just insult the opposing opinion.

I thought teaming up with Snart was stupid, certainly lacking proper back up planning, but managed to enjoy the episode immensely nonetheless.

Sounds like you've been to IMDB.

 

[Headliner]

So, basically, you know this episode was poorly written and the plot was stupid, but you like and therefore no one else has a right to complain about it...

It wasn't written poorly at all.

Barry cares about the jailed humans and doesn't want them to die. He looks to one of his enemies for help which is what heroes are known to do in comics. Then of course he gets double crossed. Barry learned that his own heroism can get him into trouble.

But, but, but it didn't have enough geek easter eggs! It didn't have enough of the main storyline! I could do a better job than these writers!

Stop it. Everything they've done is for a reason. Now that Barry screwed up, all his enemies are back out there so it's all going to come back to haunt him.

 

[RivenSky]

Loved the GL tease. I really hope they introduce him at some point in a later season. Just turn CW into DC television already!

This kind of venturing off topic, but I really wonder if some day WB will buy out CBS's share of The CW and make it a full fledged network with not just the fare that they have now. This based off the rumor that WB had to beg CBS to give Person of Interest another season. WB Television already has a set of programming that does really well in the ratings. Including The Big Bang Theory, Mom, and Mike & Molly. Plus all the DC properties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros._Television#Warner_Bros._Television

Can you imagine if all these properties got merged in to one network?

 

[king666]

Some posters don't have original thoughts so therefore jump onto the popular/accepted/in favour "love everything criticise nothing" mentality because it's the safest route.

They might genuinely love everything, and that's actually fine, but they have absolutely no way of arguing the point or being able to understand any kind of criticism. They just insult the opposing opinion.

I thought teaming up with Snart was stupid, certainly lacking proper back up planning, but managed to enjoy the episode immensely nonetheless.

Yeah, I wasn't in love with the Captain Cold team-up, but then he ****ed with the Flash team and I ended up enjoying it.

I really dig this Captain Cold. I personally think we have enough "edgy" villains in superhero movies already. The corny approach is cool and I think it works

 

[Bathead]

Some posters don't have original thoughts so therefore jump onto the popular/accepted/in favour "love everything criticise nothing" mentality because it's the safest route.
They might genuinely love everything, and that's actually fine, but they have absolutely no way of arguing the point or being able to understand any kind of criticism. They just insult the opposing opinion.

I thought teaming up with Snart was stupid, certainly lacking proper back up planning, but managed to enjoy the episode immensely nonetheless.

Actually, it seems to be the exact opposite. It looks to me like the easy and popular route is to hate on the different elements to the show.
Bandwagon-ism at it's worst.
And as far as insulting those who have a different opinion, that's exactly what you're doing here.

 

[Spooderman]

It wasn't written poorly at all.

Barry cares about the jailed humans and doesn't want them to die. He looks to one of his enemies for help which is what heroes are known to do in comics. Then of course he gets double crossed. Barry learned that his own heroism can get him into trouble.

But, but, but it didn't have enough geek easter eggs! It didn't have enough of the main storyline! I could do a better job than these writers!

Stop it. Everything they've done is for a reason. Now that Barry screwed up, all his enemies are back out there so it's all going to come back to haunt him.

Not sure if trolling or...

Nobody here has complained that the episode didn't have Easter eggs or advance the main plot. The whole "hero teams up with the villain" plot only works if the villain has something unique, which Cold doesn't since Cisco built his cold gun, and is capable of building another in mere hours. Plus they already have some technology to stop the metas like the Weather Wand which they didn't bring for some reason.

Furthermore the team-up with Cold wasn't needed to break out the Metas, the machine could have malfunctioned on its own or Cold could have ambushed the truck. The lesson learned "Don't trust dangerous criminals" is so obvious that someone smart like Barry shouldn't have to learn through experience.

This is a massive flaw, not a minor nitpick. You haven't answered any of the specific points people made, just saying "durrr, it's not bad durr"

Here are some criticism in more detail if you didn't see already.

I just don't buy Cold as a last resort though. Even if Firestorm couldn't get there in time for the prison transfer, he could have still gotten the help from a squad of ARGUS agents for the transfer. Their men would probably be more useful than one dude with an ice gun (keeping in mind that his sister wasn't part of the original plan), and they're already involved.

Moreover, Barry took zero precautions against a potential betrayal. He wiped out Snart's identity (didn't even bother making backup copies of those files) before they did the transfer and gave Snart zero incentive to follow through with it. Barry not even seeming to consider the possibility of Cold betraying him goes a step beyond general naivety.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Another quality episode, I thought the team-up with Captain Cold was a good story device, it showed desperation and the fact Barry is not cut out for deals with the devil situations and he is not The Arrow as Joe explained, his heart if too trusting for the kind of devious triple planning game you need to make the kind of play Barry went for to transport the Metahumans.

I also enjoyed the banter between Cisco and Cold's sister!

Poor Eddie, kinda felt for the guy, hope he doesn't end up going heel because of this.

The big battle at the end with Flash, Arrow & Firestorm vs The Reverse Flash was pure comic book geekery and I loved it!

 

[Frodo]

I didn't think it was poorly written in the least bit, and trust me, i'm not one of those fanboys who falls in line no matter what the quality of the product is. I've been vocal about my issues with the show this season, but I felt this episode was quite well done. I bought Barry's wrong choices and misplaced trust because they've established that this version of Barry is naive and is trusting to a fault. He has made mistakes and acted on his emotional impulses as opposed to taking the long view. He still has alot to learn.

Now if they'd portrayed him more as a guy who's a few steps ahead of everyone or a guy who's always got an ace up his sleeve then his action would seem contrived for plot purposes. I'd say part of the problem with Arrow this season is that they've written Oliver as far too trusting of Malcolm Merlin and Ras Al Ghul, when the character is quite cynical and untrusting. The writing in that case has been contrived in order to get from point A to B.

In the case of The Flash though, the writers have bent over backwards to demonstrate Barry is naive and does let him emotions govern his actions alot of the time. I even bought the 3 heroes taking down Reverse Flash because the writers set the rules in Barry's line of " You can't beat all three of us at the same time" or something along those lines. I cheered when they finally caught him. Captain Cold, Joe, etc, all worked for me. I really don't have any issues with this episode.

 

[trd84]

I don't see going to Cold for help as bad writing. He was desperate, he tried other places for help with no luck. And Cold has already been keeping a deal they made a few weeks ago. So its not a stretch at all to think he'd be a man of his word on this as well.

 

[Justin]

I loved it. I mean sure, barry could have just ko'd all the prisoners with gas and then ran with one of them over his shoulder and dropped them off at the airport before running back for the next. Probably would have taken him less than a minute and no need to involve Cold.

But this is comics! It's a plot contrevance. This was the Rogues season finale, as they've been such a big part of it. And Cold in an ice bar with as cold as ice playing is as comics as it gets lol. Hasn't Cold pretty much got the better of Barry every single time they've met this year? Loving his character.

Same way Oliver having just the right arrow at just the right time was a little convenient (although it makes sense he'd work on a hard counter for Barry just in case).

You have to suspend disbelief, but when a show/episode is this good, who really cares about the little things? Besides the last 10 minutes was the best episode of Arrow we've had all season lmao.

10/10. Can't expect much more. Also <3 Cisco x Lisa. Can't wait for the season finale, expecting big things from Joe, Barry's dad and Grant Gustin. I think i might cry

 

[Astro13Zombie]

This episode was very underwhelming.

Can't stand Captain Cold. Every episode he's in brings it way down. Utterly flummoxed that it seems he's in the finale as well.

Cisco- Emotional reactions for him seem to still be beneath the writers. He's still a walking punch line above everything else.

Wells- my favorite character has, since the Trap, turned into a complete ham. I am not happy.

Can't stand the shipping crap so it's a testament to how lowbrow this episode was that the bulk of the emotional weight I was looking for came from the Eddie and Iris scenes.

Catlin- so she registers Ronnie exists again? Aww writers. Still don't care though and neither did she for many , many episodes.

Joe- so he's against the meta human prison and always has been. Since when writers?

However,the most egregious scene in the episode, if not the show, for me was this:

I honestly was completely disgusted by the fight. So apparently Arrow has two shows. Yes, lets make the regular human take down Barry's big bad. Oh wait this show is called The Flash. Really? Could have fooled me. I was already wary of Firestorm and the regular human showing up in the battle between Wells and Barry in the first place, since you know this isn't their damn show,but as long as the final blow was Barry's I could overlook it a bit.

We've been waiting all season for the reveal and personal battle between the TITLE character and his villain. Instead we get a should have been useless human getting not one, but two decisive blows on a being that is faster than Barry. I laughed derisively when Barry said "Got You" to a comatose Wells. Like hell you did. The writing for this fight was (second)fastest man alive can't take guns from two regular people kind of lunacy. The fact Arrow even touched him let along beat him just ughhhhhhhhh

I'm aware we have one episode left so maybe the actual real fight between the hero and his villain will happen there, and if so word to the wise writers this show is called The Flash keep regular humans, and other meta's, out this time. Thanks.

On a more shallow note the reverse flash costume is hideous.Both in it's loud ugly color and effectiveness in looking badass. It's doesn't look good on Wells and never has. I prefer him in his regular clothes.

Also the overall cgi for this show is not good. The only time I've not thought this was the plastique episode, the tsunami, and Ronnie's fire.

holy ****

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

with all this about how the fight went down... personally i think Wells allowed for the others to take him so easy!.that dude is bad ass and is probably planning some MAJOR ^&*( to hit the Fan!! Dude has already brought the particle accelerator on line which nobody knows how to turn off!... hell !that thing just might blow up again and we end up getting more Metas and maybe VIBE or KILLER FROST( oh YEAHHHH!) for the ending! that dude already has shown he aint going down without a serious plan in store 1st.

Also i like Barry believing in Cold and getting Betrayed. just like Joe said maybe Ollie works that way but Barry is somebody else!... i mean come on we All ( i dunno maybe some are perfect!) have believed in somebody that we shouldnt have ,only to be done wrong again by them!thats freaking life and Barry is still young and developing... now trusting COLD a 3rd time then i would be what the ^%&*( IS WRONG WITH YOU!! with a slap up cross his head!! i liked it! it made stuff believable to me!

 

[Justin]

with all this about how the fight went down... personally i think Wells allowed for the others to take him so easy!.that dude is bad ass and is probably planning some MAJOR ^&*( to hit the Fan!! Dude has already brought the particle accelerator on line which nobody knows how to turn off!... hell !that thing just might blow up again and we end up getting more Metas and maybe VIBE or KILLER FROST( oh YEAHHHH!) for the ending! that dude already has shown he aint going down without a serious plan in store 1st.

Also i like Barry believing in Cold and getting Betrayed. just like Joe said maybe Ollie works that way but Barry is somebody else!... i mean come on we All ( i dunno maybe some are perfect!) have believed in somebody that we shouldnt have ,only to be done wrong again by them!thats freaking life and Barry is still young and developing... now trusting COLD a 3rd time then i would be what the ^%&*( IS WRONG WITH YOU!! with a slap up cross his head!! i liked it! it made stuff believable to me!

Yes Ollie, or at least end of season 2 Ollie would have used Cold for his help, but would have expected the betrayal and planned for it.

Barry was naive. But they've spent a whole season building him up as naive and Joe even explained to the audience exactly why Barry's character would have done that, so I found it perfectly believable.

 

[LostSon88]

Looking at it from a practical standpoint, they've could've easily just

-Gassed the metas
-restrained them in the truck
-Gas them again
-Get them on the plane and restrain them

I honestly had a lot of issues with this episode as there are some serious lapses in logic but whatever...it was still enjoyable.

Still wrapping my head around what Cold's purpose was though. Ultimately, all he and his sister did was serve as escorts for moving the metas. Really wasn't necessary.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

Yes Ollie, or at least end of season 2 Ollie would have used Cold for his help, but would have expected the betrayal and planned for it.

Barry was naive. But they've spent a whole season building him up as naive and Joe even explained to the audience exactly why Barry's character would have done that, so I found it perfectly believable.

Exactly Justin! i mean the time that his and Oliver crossover, practicing against each other. Ollie shot Dude in the back with arrows!! Barry was all i can't believe you shot me! Ollie was all you need to anticipate and be ready for everything! that situation shows how the 2 thought! Ollie is freakin Batman with moves and counter moves and would have been ready for cold, while Barry thinks its going to"this straight up, here are the are rules" fights!

 

[Broseph44]

Another quality episode, I thought the team-up with Captain Cold was a good story device, it showed desperation and the fact Barry is not cut out for deals with the devil situations and he is not The Arrow as Joe explained, his heart if too trusting for the kind of devious triple planning game you need to make the kind of play Barry went for to transport the Metahumans.

I also enjoyed the banter between Cisco and Cold's sister!

Poor Eddie, kinda felt for the guy, hope he doesn't end up going heel because of this.

The big battle at the end with Flash, Arrow & Firestorm vs The Reverse Flash was pure comic book geekery and I loved it!

Hell yeah! Glad you enjoyed it Hunter, another awesome episode. What a season it has been can't wait for the finale t:

 

[Avenging Angel]

I didn't think it was poorly written in the least bit, and trust me, i'm not one of those fanboys who falls in line no matter what the quality of the product is. I've been vocal about my issues with the show this season, but I felt this episode was quite well done. I bought Barry's wrong choices and misplaced trust because they've established that this version of Barry is naive and is trusting to a fault. He has made mistakes and acted on his emotional impulses as opposed to taking the long view. He still has alot to learn.

Now if they'd portrayed him more as a guy who's a few steps ahead of everyone or a guy who's always got an ace up his sleeve then his action would seem contrived for plot purposes. I'd say part of the problem with Arrow this season is that they've written Oliver as far too trusting of Malcolm Merlin and Ras Al Ghul, when the character is quite cynical and untrusting. The writing in that case has been contrived in order to get from point A to B.

In the case of The Flash though, the writers have bent over backwards to demonstrate Barry is naive and does let him emotions govern his actions alot of the time. I even bought the 3 heroes taking down Reverse Flash because the writers set the rules in Barry's line of " You can't beat all three of us at the same time" or something along those lines. I cheered when they finally caught him. Captain Cold, Joe, etc, all worked for me. I really don't have any issues with this episode.

I know, I feel the same. I feel like this version of Barry is bit too OOC (probably because it’s only Season 1) from canon Barry who is more like the character Eddie, Rick even looks like him too. Grant pulls off the emotional side (scenes with Henry/Joe all home runs) of his character great, but I admit I did think his naivety to trusting a criminal (albeit non-violent but still) like Snart was silly. It’s typical in a hero’s pov but it was kind of callow of the writers to go there. I agree he has a lot to learn as does the actor, he’s the lead, so he’s going to find his footing with the character and become more assured of himself like Charlie/Matt or Stephen/Oliver.

I think having him be more advanced would raise eyebrows yes, but having him develop a bit of a CSI persona, even in outsmarting some criminals wouldn’t hurt either. I don’t watch much Arrow, only what I saw so far in Season 3, so I can’t comment. Only seen a handful of episodes. I heard from people who watch Arrow and Flash that Oliver in Season 1 was a completely different person than he is now. In that he was just putting arrows in people without just cause, along with the cynicism and angst.

I think the writers are putting this out there just to lay the ground work for his future discipline. Barry is impulsive, like Oliver said in the first crossover (Flash vs Arrow). He doesn’t think before a conflict (though in last night’s episode he was better and had a plan) so he wound up getting his butt handed to him in several episodes. I loved Barry stating that to RF and the battle scene. It was a great episode and the character has come a long way.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Fantasymoon, in terms of Ollie getting in shots on RF...that's just something you're going to have to stomach. It happens in the comics all the time, it's going to happen in this show. It's an unfortunate fact of life with speedsters. Writers have to dumb them down, because if they're really written to their potential...they're essentially invincible. In reality, characters like Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, hell ANYONE that isn't a speedster should be a cakewalk for Barry to take down...but that's just not interesting.

Is it annoying sometimes? Of course. And it can bug me too. It's the same kind of thinking that gives us the "Batgod" that can somehow take down the justice league (ridiculous). But the normal man that can fight metas has been a part of comic history almost since the inception of comic books. It's not going anywhere.

We get a lot of characters dumbed down or unavoidably detained from the other task in stories for the sake of making a story.

 

[dark claw x21]

Great episode. One think though did Oliver/Arrow leave the League Of Assassins for a little bit to help Barry/Flash or is it after todays episode of Arrow?

 

[antsman41]

Great episode. One think though did Oliver/Arrow leave the League Of Assassins for a little bit to help Barry/Flash or is it after todays episode of Arrow?

I'm betting this episode was before last week's Arrow and in the timeline, the last two weeks of Arrow are back/to/back.

 

[dark claw x21]

Oh OK thanks that helps alot.