The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Babillygunn]

Tom King has a lot of cache in my opinion following Up in the Sky, Omega Men, and Mister Miracle. Those three are among the best comics I’ve read in a long time. But he is hit or miss. Strange Adventures was definitely a miss for me. Rorschach was good, but not to the level of Omega Men or Up in the Sky. I am loving his Supergirl book thus far.

The thing about Tom King is that sometimes he writes to celebrate a character. (Like in the case of his Superman and Supergirl books.) Other times he has a story that he wants to tell and he forces the story upon the character. Every now and again, that works well, like it did for Kyle Rainer in Omega Men. That was probably the most interesting that Kyle has ever been for me, and it wasn’t really that in keeping with the character. But then stories like Heroes in Crisis and Strange Adventures result in misfires because they can come across as character assassinations. Interestingly, I heard an interview with him where he basically said as much, stating that Heroes in Crisis was a deeply personal story that he wanted to tell, but that he recognizes that he made a mistake because it should have been about someone other than Wally West. He noted that having Wally experience such a failure was a huge mistake and not in keeping with the character and it’s mythos. Eventually Jeremy Adams had to come in and retcon much of that story.

This is a long way to say that, yes, I can totally understand the criticisms of Tom King. But his highs are so high that I think his books will always be a must read for me.

 

[Gee]

 

[Primal Slayer]

The most painful 3:58 of my life lol. How dare Superman stand for everyone! And now they want to take DC down and have someone come up with an American first comic company lol

 

[CrimsonMist]

This is an interesting point, but I think his role was to be that foil. He admittedly was a bit of a blank slate as a 10 year old, but he also was a curious and irrepressible kid who served strongly to make other characters more interesting through their interactions with him. Clark was a better character because of him. Damien was a better character because of him. Lois was a better character because of him. He was Jason Kidd, bringing out the best in his teammates, being the unselfish point guard who makes those around him better. He’s not Kobe who is scoring tons of buckets. Now he has lost that role and it’s clear that it was done without a plan, which is frustrating. To say that he was just a foil for other characters is unfair, because that was his value. And it was valuable. Now he really doesn’t have any value. To follow the basketball analogy, it’s like taking Rajon Rondo and say “we are going to make him the focal point of our offense and ask him to carry the scoring load.” He’s not equipped for that. But that doesn’t mean that his value is diminished when he certainly has a role that makes the whole team excel.

What you're saying isn't wrong, but it does kinda reinforce my point. If Jon's purpose as a fictional character is only to make other characters interesting, he himself is not that interesting of a character on his own. Because when you remove Jon, Lois is still interesting. Clark is still interesting. Damien is still interesting. Jon, 10 or 18, is not. His value, like it or not, can now be determined by writers more adept at that sort of thing than Bendis. I'd argue that the Bendis' biggest mistake wasn't so much aging Jon up than it was in having him join the LOSH instead of dealing with the fallout of Jon aging due to the horrors of Earth-3: A revenge story like that would be pretty cool.

All this to say, making Jon bi-sexual doesn't exactly make Jon an interesting character in and of itself, but it definitely adds a definitive wrinkle to the character for Taylor, and other writers, to explore.

I suppose one could make a point that going "LOOK! SUPERMAN IS BI-SEXUAL! BUY OUR COMICS!" is disingenuous, as that's the focal point to anyone who isn't a comics fan. But we know better, do we not? This is still a storytelling medium. Maybe it won't be Batwoman: Elegy, but there's always the possibility that it CAN be.

But Mani-Man brings up a good point: Recent issues of Action Comics have shown Clark and Lois having sex. Tom King's Batman run was a romance comic disguised as a superhero comic. Let us not forget that Judd Winnick Catwoman issue from the New52 of Bruce and Selina doing the dirty on a rooftop.

I'll consider making Jon bi-sexual a bold choice if they're willing to commit to the actual relationship he'll have with his boyfriend. But it still doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Why the sudden hate for Tom Taylor???

Because many comic book fans operate in extremes. There's no "it was alright" or "I understand what the writer was going for but it just didn't connect." If a comic book writer puts out a bad story, they are the worst writer since the last worst writer in the medium and everything they ever wrote previous to this bad story was also crap and everything they ever write going forward will always be crap. And I find it rather bizarre how personal it can get.

Personally, my interest in Batman on a month-to-month basis starts and ends with Tom King. Morrison was a turn-off. Snyder went off the rails. King cut Batman down to the core and presented a much more human, flawed, and ultimately rounded Batman. And I'll take his formalist deconstructionist approach to anything over the usual comic book output. I dug Strange Adventures. Rorschach was wonderful. I'm more about interesting stories being told with these characters than I am in the continuing adventures into genericism, sticking to the rules. And in the case of Strange Adventures, I applaud DC for having the balls to let King tell a story like that with one of their own characters.

 

[Babillygunn]

What you're saying isn't wrong, but it does kinda reinforce my point. If Jon's purpose as a fictional character is only to make other characters interesting, he himself is not that interesting of a character on his own. Because when you remove Jon, Lois is still interesting. Clark is still interesting. Damien is still interesting. Jon, 10 or 18, is not. His value, like it or not, can now be determined by writers more adept at that sort of thing than Bendis. I'd argue that the Bendis' biggest mistake wasn't so much aging Jon up than it was in having him join the LOSH instead of dealing with the fallout of Jon aging due to the horrors of Earth-3: A revenge story like that would be pretty cool.

All this to say, making Jon bi-sexual doesn't exactly make Jon an interesting character in and of itself, but it definitely adds a definitive wrinkle to the character for Taylor, and other writers, to explore.

I suppose one could make a point that going "LOOK! SUPERMAN IS BI-SEXUAL! BUY OUR COMICS!" is disingenuous, as that's the focal point to anyone who isn't a comics fan. But we know better, do we not? This is still a storytelling medium. Maybe it won't be Batwoman: Elegy, but there's always the possibility that it CAN be.

But Mani-Man brings up a good point: Recent issues of Action Comics have shown Clark and Lois having sex. Tom King's Batman run was a romance comic disguised as a superhero comic. Let us not forget that Judd Winnick Catwoman issue from the New52 of Bruce and Selina doing the dirty on a rooftop.

I'll consider making Jon bi-sexual a bold choice if they're willing to commit to the actual relationship he'll have with his boyfriend. But it still doesn't bother me one way or the other.



Because many comic book fans operate in extremes. There's no "it was alright" or "I understand what the writer was going for but it just didn't connect." If a comic book writer puts out a bad story, they are the worst writer since the last worst writer in the medium and everything they ever wrote previous to this bad story was also crap and everything they ever write going forward will always be crap. And I find it rather bizarre how personal it can get.

Personally, my interest in Batman on a month-to-month basis starts and ends with Tom King. Morrison was a turn-off. Snyder went off the rails. King cut Batman down to the core and presented a much more human, flawed, and ultimately rounded Batman. And I'll take his formalist deconstructionist approach to anything over the usual comic book output. I dug Strange Adventures. Rorschach was wonderful. I'm more about interesting stories being told with these characters than I am in the continuing adventures into genericism, sticking to the rules. And in the case of Strange Adventures, I applaud DC for having the balls to let King tell a story like that with one of their own characters.

This is a very well written post.

 

[flickchick85]

Well damn, now y'all have me equally excited and nervous to catch up on Strange Adventures. I loved the first 4 issues and decided to wait until it was finished to binge the rest.

@Babillygunn Glad to hear you describe King's Supergirl comic as a "celebration" of the character like Up in the Sky was. That's another one I'm looking to read all in one go when it's done, and I'm quite hyped for it.

 

[super85]

I think King writes men horribly. And the relationships between men and women come across as the woman as being a mother and the man being a sad little boy. That , most likely is what bugs me to mest with his writing.

Also with his Batman run it felt like the dude kept forgetting his previous issues and made the reading also a very inconsistent experience.

 

[Mani-Man]

@Babillygunn Glad to hear you describe King's Supergirl comic as a "celebration" of the character like Up in the Sky was. That's another one I'm looking to read all in one go when it's done, and I'm quite hyped for it.

It really is, its so much fun.
I still dont get why they didnt threw everything they could at King to write Superman regular and instead gave Bendis the keys.

 

[Babillygunn]

@Babillygunn Glad to hear you describe King's Supergirl comic as a "celebration" of the character like Up in the Sky was. That's another one I'm looking to read all in one go when it's done, and I'm quite hyped for it.

Yeah, I think you will really like it. I love that King doesn’t write Kara simply as a “girl version of Superman.” She is definitely her own character. He shows her as a bit more irreverent and much less of a goody-goody. But at the same time, she has the same resolve, and the same commitment to justice as her cousin. She is certainly a protector of the innocent in this one.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

What you're saying isn't wrong, but it does kinda reinforce my point. If Jon's purpose as a fictional character is only to make other characters interesting, he himself is not that interesting of a character on his own. Because when you remove Jon, Lois is still interesting. Clark is still interesting. Damien is still interesting. Jon, 10 or 18, is not. His value, like it or not, can now be determined by writers more adept at that sort of thing than Bendis. I'd argue that the Bendis' biggest mistake wasn't so much aging Jon up than it was in having him join the LOSH instead of dealing with the fallout of Jon aging due to the horrors of Earth-3: A revenge story like that would be pretty cool.

All this to say, making Jon bi-sexual doesn't exactly make Jon an interesting character in and of itself, but it definitely adds a definitive wrinkle to the character for Taylor, and other writers, to explore.

I suppose one could make a point that going "LOOK! SUPERMAN IS BI-SEXUAL! BUY OUR COMICS!" is disingenuous, as that's the focal point to anyone who isn't a comics fan. But we know better, do we not? This is still a storytelling medium. Maybe it won't be Batwoman: Elegy, but there's always the possibility that it CAN be.

But Mani-Man brings up a good point: Recent issues of Action Comics have shown Clark and Lois having sex. Tom King's Batman run was a romance comic disguised as a superhero comic. Let us not forget that Judd Winnick Catwoman issue from the New52 of Bruce and Selina doing the dirty on a rooftop.

I'll consider making Jon bi-sexual a bold choice if they're willing to commit to the actual relationship he'll have with his boyfriend. But it still doesn't bother me one way or the other.



Because many comic book fans operate in extremes. There's no "it was alright" or "I understand what the writer was going for but it just didn't connect." If a comic book writer puts out a bad story, they are the worst writer since the last worst writer in the medium and everything they ever wrote previous to this bad story was also crap and everything they ever write going forward will always be crap. And I find it rather bizarre how personal it can get.

Personally, my interest in Batman on a month-to-month basis starts and ends with Tom King. Morrison was a turn-off. Snyder went off the rails. King cut Batman down to the core and presented a much more human, flawed, and ultimately rounded Batman. And I'll take his formalist deconstructionist approach to anything over the usual comic book output. I dug Strange Adventures. Rorschach was wonderful. I'm more about interesting stories being told with these characters than I am in the continuing adventures into genericism, sticking to the rules. And in the case of Strange Adventures, I applaud DC for having the balls to let King tell a story like that with one of their own characters.

I agree with you but my problem also is that Jon should've never become Superman. This 5G thing should've had Conner Cassie & Bart become the next wave of heroes. Jon just isn't interesting and this whole Superman's now bi is just to sell more comics but what happens when you put Jon with a woman instead of man (since he is bi) will there be an uproar about that? Remember in future state Jon was supposed to be dating a woman, just like in the zombie storyline he was with Cassie and in LOSH he was with Saturn Girl. So what happens if he goes back to woman or god-forbids marries one what do you think the backlash for DC will be if and when they go back on this just like how they probably will do with Tim. See this is why I also have a problem with them making Jon bi it's not because they care but because they are just using it as publicity stunt at best. See that's my problem with everything as well but at the end of the day it still also comes back to my religious beliefs and how Superman roots were based off of Moses, Samson (strength) & Jesus Christ I just can't get behind it even though I know this isn't Clark it just still doesn't sit right with me.

As I said many times they have done nothing with Jon since he was introduced to make me care about him. Rebirth was working to make you care about Jon but when Bendis took over all that stopped. Really once again I think the DC over reacted in ending the whole New 52 thing because it could've easily have been fixed. However once they were dead set on a new wave of heroes I think Conner would've made a better Superman given you could've kept Lex as the villain still but given the Smallville TV show relationship with Conner always hoping Lex could be saved. Conner was already a member of the Titans, LOSH, and is more established than Jon. Could've easily revived the Superman/Wonder Woman (Cassie) series again and made it work. Could've explored him working with Jace (who doesn't trust him because of the Lex connection) or Tim (giving us a Pre-Crisis/Super Friends vibe) whoever they pick for Batman. Heck if they even wanted to do a bad Superman storyline (which they are so big on now these days) it would be easy to do with Conner as well. They made us care about Conner from start to when he found out he was a clone of Superman and Lex to his death & rebirth in Final Crisis. They made us care about him for Jon he was nothing more then a comedy team with Damien even in LOSH they did that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I agree with you but my problem also is that Jon should've never become Superman. This 5G thing should've had Conner Cassie & Bart become the next wave of heroes. Jon just isn't interesting and this whole Superman's now bi is just to sell more comics but what happens when you put Jon with a woman instead of man (since he is bi) will there be an uproar about that? Remember in future state Jon was supposed to be dating a woman, just like in the zombie storyline he was with Cassie and in LOSH he was with Saturn Girl. So what happens if he goes back to woman or god-forbids marries one what do you think the backlash for DC will be if and when they go back on this just like how they probably will do with Tim. See this is why I also have a problem with them making Jon bi it's not because they care but because they are just using it as publicity stunt at best. See that's my problem with everything as well but at the end of the day it still also comes back to my religious beliefs and how Superman roots were based off of Moses, Samson (strength) & Jesus Christ I just can't get behind it even though I know this isn't Clark it just still doesn't sit right with me.

As I said many times they have done nothing with Jon since he was introduced to make me care about him. Rebirth was working to make you care about Jon but when Bendis took over all that stopped. Really once again I think the DC over reacted in ending the whole New 52 thing because it could've easily have been fixed. However once they were dead set on a new wave of heroes I think Conner would've made a better Superman given you could've kept Lex as the villain still but given the Smallville TV show relationship with Conner always hoping Lex could be saved. Conner was already a member of the Titans, LOSH, and is more established than Jon. Could've easily revived the Superman/Wonder Woman (Cassie) series again and made it work. Could've explored him working with Jace (who doesn't trust him because of the Lex connection) or Tim (giving us a Pre-Crisis/Super Friends vibe) whoever they pick for Batman. Heck if they even wanted to do a bad Superman storyline (which they are so big on now these days) it would be easy to do with Conner as well. They made us care about Conner from start to when he found out he was a clone of Superman and Lex to his death & rebirth in Final Crisis. They made us care about him for Jon he was nothing more then a comedy team with Damien even in LOSH they did that.

If you are religious, the idea of Superman being a "Christ figure" is actually super offensive. I'm not, so I don't care. But if you are religious, yeah. There's also the whole him being an alien thing, but whatever. What bothers you that Jon, his son, inherits a name, and like's to shag dudes? That strikes at your religious beliefs enough for you to become bothered by it. To voice such intolerance on a message board. Why?

 

[Sithborg]

I agree with you but my problem also is that Jon should've never become Superman. This 5G thing should've had Conner Cassie & Bart become the next wave of heroes. Jon just isn't interesting and this whole Superman's now bi is just to sell more comics but what happens when you put Jon with a woman instead of man (since he is bi) will there be an uproar about that? Remember in future state Jon was supposed to be dating a woman, just like in the zombie storyline he was with Cassie and in LOSH he was with Saturn Girl. So what happens if he goes back to woman or god-forbids marries one what do you think the backlash for DC will be if and when they go back on this just like how they probably will do with Tim. See this is why I also have a problem with them making Jon bi it's not because they care but because they are just using it as publicity stunt at best. See that's my problem with everything as well but at the end of the day it still also comes back to my religious beliefs and how Superman roots were based off of Moses, Samson (strength) & Jesus Christ I just can't get behind it even though I know this isn't Clark it just still doesn't sit right with me.

I mean, that is an issue, and is much broader than just the comics. I have a friend who is bi, and he is married to a woman. Does that make him any less queer? No. Demands that a bisexual demonstrate their queerness by dating someone of the same sex is bad, no doubt. And this is where I think Tim's story is important, much more than Jon's. Which near as I can tell, Tim's is about the actual exploration of his sexuality, and Jon is just bi, deal with it.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

If you are religious, the idea of Superman being a "Christ figure" is actually super offensive. I'm not, so I don't care. But if you are religious, yeah. There's also the whole him being an alien thing, but whatever. What bothers you that Jon, his son, inherits a name, and like's to shag dudes? That strikes at your religious beliefs enough for you to become bothered by it. To voice such intolerance on a message board. Why?

I'm not voicing intolerance so don't put words in my mouth because that will be like me calling you a racist because I'm black (which I am) and you won't support me in everything I do. All because I can't support something doesn't make it intolerance it just means we have a difference in opinions which is fine. For example my brother in real life is gay and he knows that I love him with all my heart and will always be there for him and we can talk all the time and hang out even though he knows I can't support that one part of his life he still knows I don't love him any less or treat him any differently. We just have a difference of opinions which means we can just agree to disagree. See here's where people get it wrong (even some Christians) people like to think all because your a Christian it means you hate this or that and if you're this or that your going to hell which is just not true Christ has told and taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Meaning no matter what you are or what you do or who you love we are to show you the same love Christ showed us. Because at the end of the day I am no different than the next man other than I am forgiven (since I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior). That is the only thing that separates me from a person who hasn't. Forgiveness and mercy from the love of Jesus Christ. But here's the catch most people overlook and tend to leave out just because I have accepted Christ doesn't mean God loves me more than the next man. He loves the person who hasn't accepted him just as much as he loves me and is patiently waiting on that person to love him back as well. Now it's up to you (the person) to decide to accept that love or reject it but just because you're gay or bi or a murder or a escort or an adult film star or whatever means God loves you any less. A good example of that is to look at Moses life (a murder and a man who worshiped other Gods), King David's life (a murder, took another's man's wife, lied and more) the people Jesus hung around mostly and you'll God loves everyone the same. I'll go one step further for you even if they kept Jon straight but had him have a revolving door of women in and out of his bed like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark I would still drop the book because I can't support that. Which again is why I say all because I don't support something or someone doesn't mean I'm a bigot or intolerant or don't love that person or will treat them any different then I would treat the next person. I just means I can't support it because of my religious beliefs. I may live in this world but I refuse to conform to the patterns of it. Romans 12:2.

 

[Babillygunn]

If you are religious, the idea of Superman being a "Christ figure" is actually super offensive. I'm not, so I don't care. But if you are religious, yeah. There's also the whole him being an alien thing, but whatever. What bothers you that Jon, his son, inherits a name, and like's to shag dudes? That strikes at your religious beliefs enough for you to become bothered by it. To voice such intolerance on a message board. Why?

I don’t find Superman being a Christ figure to be offensive in the least. If you believe that Christ was a loving, self sacrificial person who showed love toward the weak and powerless, then an allegorical figure that celebrates such attributes isn’t offensive, it is actually, to me, quite the opposite. The fact that he embodies what I love about God makes me love the character all the more.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm not voicing intolerance so don't put words in my mouth because that will be like me calling you a racist because I'm black (which I am) and you won't support me in everything I do. All because I can't support something doesn't make it intolerance it just means we have a difference in opinions which is fine. For example my brother in real life is gay and he knows that I love him with all my heart and will always be there for him and we can talk all the time and hang out even though he knows I can't support that one part of his life he still knows I don't love him any less or treat him any differently. We just have a difference of opinions which means we can just agree to disagree. See here's where people get it wrong (even some Christians) people like to think all because your a Christian it means you hate this or that and if you're this or that your going to hell which is just not true Christ has told and taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Meaning no matter what you are or what you do or who you love we are to show you the same love Christ showed us. Because at the end of the day I am no different than the next man other than I am forgiven (since I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior). That is the only thing that separates me from a person who hasn't. Forgiveness and mercy from the love of Jesus Christ. But here's the catch most people overlook and tend to leave out just because I have accepted Christ doesn't mean God loves me more than the next man. He loves the person who hasn't accepted him just as much as he loves me and is patiently waiting on that person to love him back as well. Now it's up to you (the person) to decide to accept that love or reject it but just because you're gay or bi or a murder or a escort or an adult film star or whatever means God loves you any less. A good example of that is to look at Moses life (a murder and a man who worshiped other Gods), King David's life (a murder, took another's man's wife, lied and more) the people Jesus hung around mostly and you'll God loves everyone the same. I'll go one step further for you even if they kept Jon straight but had him have a revolving door of women in and out of his bed like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark I would still drop the book because I can't support that. Which again is why I say all because I don't support something or someone doesn't mean I'm a bigot or intolerant or don't love that person or will treat them any different then I would treat the next person. I just means I can't support it because of my religious beliefs. I may live in this world but I refuse to conform to the patterns of it. Romans 12:2.

The bolded part is the part where you and many other evangelicals lose people in terms of getting you to try to convince them you aren't bigoted. The equation of who you love with actions people make. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a bull**** term when it comes to sexual orientation. You are saying a person does not deserve to find love. Some people deserve something and others do not. Hatred is not needed for bigotry.

I have been out of organized religion for a long time. Even before my, to borrow a phrase from bigots, "wokening". Various events have lead to an even rockier faith. And it isn't my intention to attack your faith or religion. I just want to say, empathy has lead to a lot of questioning of certain doctrines. I would encourage you not to listen to my slightly straight ass, but to queer voices about their experiences. YOU don't think you are being bigoted, but ask those who you are talking about...

 

[Primal Slayer]

I agree with you but my problem also is that Jon should've never become Superman. This 5G thing should've had Conner Cassie & Bart become the next wave of heroes. Jon just isn't interesting and this whole Superman's now bi is just to sell more comics but what happens when you put Jon with a woman instead of man (since he is bi) will there be an uproar about that? Remember in future state Jon was supposed to be dating a woman, just like in the zombie storyline he was with Cassie and in LOSH he was with Saturn Girl. So what happens if he goes back to woman or god-forbids marries one what do you think the backlash for DC will be if and when they go back on this just like how they probably will do with Tim. See this is why I also have a problem with them making Jon bi it's not because they care but because they are just using it as publicity stunt at best. See that's my problem with everything as well but at the end of the day it still also comes back to my religious beliefs and how Superman roots were based off of Moses, Samson (strength) & Jesus Christ I just can't get behind it even though I know this isn't Clark it just still doesn't sit right with me.

People know that bi-sexuals are attracted to both sexes and will be fine if he dates a guy and ends up dating a girl again as long as it is written well and with the proper care.

But Cassie was dating Damien in DCeased.

 

[Snow Queen]

I agree with you but my problem also is that Jon should've never become Superman. This 5G thing should've had Conner Cassie & Bart become the next wave of heroes. Jon just isn't interesting and this whole Superman's now bi is just to sell more comics but what happens when you put Jon with a woman instead of man (since he is bi) will there be an uproar about that? Remember in future state Jon was supposed to be dating a woman, just like in the zombie storyline he was with Cassie and in LOSH he was with Saturn Girl. So what happens if he goes back to woman or god-forbids marries one what do you think the backlash for DC will be if and when they go back on this just like how they probably will do with Tim. See this is why I also have a problem with them making Jon bi it's not because they care but because they are just using it as publicity stunt at best. See that's my problem with everything as well but at the end of the day it still also comes back to my religious beliefs and how Superman roots were based off of Moses, Samson (strength) & Jesus Christ I just can't get behind it even though I know this isn't Clark it just still doesn't sit right with me.

As I said many times they have done nothing with Jon since he was introduced to make me care about him. Rebirth was working to make you care about Jon but when Bendis took over all that stopped. Really once again I think the DC over reacted in ending the whole New 52 thing because it could've easily have been fixed. However once they were dead set on a new wave of heroes I think Conner would've made a better Superman given you could've kept Lex as the villain still but given the Smallville TV show relationship with Conner always hoping Lex could be saved. Conner was already a member of the Titans, LOSH, and is more established than Jon. Could've easily revived the Superman/Wonder Woman (Cassie) series again and made it work. Could've explored him working with Jace (who doesn't trust him because of the Lex connection) or Tim (giving us a Pre-Crisis/Super Friends vibe) whoever they pick for Batman. Heck if they even wanted to do a bad Superman storyline (which they are so big on now these days) it would be easy to do with Conner as well. They made us care about Conner from start to when he found out he was a clone of Superman and Lex to his death & rebirth in Final Crisis. They made us care about him for Jon he was nothing more then a comedy team with Damien even in LOSH they did that.

I'm not voicing intolerance so don't put words in my mouth because that will be like me calling you a racist because I'm black (which I am) and you won't support me in everything I do. All because I can't support something doesn't make it intolerance it just means we have a difference in opinions which is fine. For example my brother in real life is gay and he knows that I love him with all my heart and will always be there for him and we can talk all the time and hang out even though he knows I can't support that one part of his life he still knows I don't love him any less or treat him any differently. We just have a difference of opinions which means we can just agree to disagree. See here's where people get it wrong (even some Christians) people like to think all because your a Christian it means you hate this or that and if you're this or that your going to hell which is just not true Christ has told and taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Meaning no matter what you are or what you do or who you love we are to show you the same love Christ showed us. Because at the end of the day I am no different than the next man other than I am forgiven (since I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior). That is the only thing that separates me from a person who hasn't. Forgiveness and mercy from the love of Jesus Christ. But here's the catch most people overlook and tend to leave out just because I have accepted Christ doesn't mean God loves me more than the next man. He loves the person who hasn't accepted him just as much as he loves me and is patiently waiting on that person to love him back as well. Now it's up to you (the person) to decide to accept that love or reject it but just because you're gay or bi or a murder or a escort or an adult film star or whatever means God loves you any less. A good example of that is to look at Moses life (a murder and a man who worshiped other Gods), King David's life (a murder, took another's man's wife, lied and more) the people Jesus hung around mostly and you'll God loves everyone the same. I'll go one step further for you even if they kept Jon straight but had him have a revolving door of women in and out of his bed like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark I would still drop the book because I can't support that. Which again is why I say all because I don't support something or someone doesn't mean I'm a bigot or intolerant or don't love that person or will treat them any different then I would treat the next person. I just means I can't support it because of my religious beliefs. I may live in this world but I refuse to conform to the patterns of it. Romans 12:2.

****ing yikes, dude.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Fun start to the book. If DC treated Catwoman the right way, would make for a good Old Woman Selina or tv series.

 

[Gee]

Fortunately it's a 3-issue (or 4?) miniseries so the trade-wait won't be too long.

 

[super85]

Another "Lets kill Batman" book. pass.

 

[super85]

People know that bi-sexuals are attracted to both sexes and will be fine if he dates a guy and ends up dating a girl again as long as it is written well and with the proper care.

But Cassie was dating Damien in DCeased.
ra

When it comes to characters like Tim Drake and Jon Kent, i doubt any writers will dare to have them date girls anymore. If they would, they would get the blue-haired twitter crowd screaming about "How dare they remove these LGBT characters" etc. Basicly the part of twitter activists who havent read comics for decades/ever.

The similar type of crowd exist also for people who are against LGBT characters and dont read comics. Cause twitter is a freakshow.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not voicing intolerance so don't put words in my mouth because that will be like me calling you a racist because I'm black (which I am) and you won't support me in everything I do. All because I can't support something doesn't make it intolerance it just means we have a difference in opinions which is fine. For example my brother in real life is gay and he knows that I love him with all my heart and will always be there for him and we can talk all the time and hang out even though he knows I can't support that one part of his life he still knows I don't love him any less or treat him any differently. We just have a difference of opinions which means we can just agree to disagree. See here's where people get it wrong (even some Christians) people like to think all because your a Christian it means you hate this or that and if you're this or that your going to hell which is just not true Christ has told and taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Meaning no matter what you are or what you do or who you love we are to show you the same love Christ showed us. Because at the end of the day I am no different than the next man other than I am forgiven (since I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior). That is the only thing that separates me from a person who hasn't. Forgiveness and mercy from the love of Jesus Christ. But here's the catch most people overlook and tend to leave out just because I have accepted Christ doesn't mean God loves me more than the next man. He loves the person who hasn't accepted him just as much as he loves me and is patiently waiting on that person to love him back as well. Now it's up to you (the person) to decide to accept that love or reject it but just because you're gay or bi or a murder or a escort or an adult film star or whatever means God loves you any less. A good example of that is to look at Moses life (a murder and a man who worshiped other Gods), King David's life (a murder, took another's man's wife, lied and more) the people Jesus hung around mostly and you'll God loves everyone the same. I'll go one step further for you even if they kept Jon straight but had him have a revolving door of women in and out of his bed like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark I would still drop the book because I can't support that. Which again is why I say all because I don't support something or someone doesn't mean I'm a bigot or intolerant or don't love that person or will treat them any different then I would treat the next person. I just means I can't support it because of my religious beliefs. I may live in this world but I refuse to conform to the patterns of it. Romans 12:2.

You're right. Intolerance is too kind. Comparing being gay/bi/pan to the crime of murder is bigotry. One's sexuality is not choice. Hiding behind your choice of religion does not change that.

 

[Mani-Man]

When it comes to characters like Tim Drake and Jon Kent, i doubt any writers will dare to have them date girls anymore. If they would, they would get the blue-haired twitter crowd screaming about "How dare they remove these LGBT characters" etc. Basicly the part of twitter activists who havent read comics for decades/ever.

The similar type of crowd exist also for people who are against LGBT characters and dont read comics. Cause twitter is a freakshow.

You know, its totally fine to admit you dont know what Bisexual is or what the hell even goes on.
No shame in admiting such stuff.

Also i wouldnt bring up how much or little others read comics when i look at your Tom King post above that tells me you havent read a Tom King book.
Because i might not like Kings Batman, but when i read stuff like this "Also with his Batman run it felt like the dude kept forgetting his previous issues and made the reading also a very inconsistent experience." I very much doubt you have actually read a Tom King Batman.

Anyway...comics week finally

Batman

It starts to lose me a bit to be honest.
Cant put my finger onto the why, maybe it has to do with the fact that i know tynion will leave and all that.
Also the art was at times not where it normally is, Batman looked in a few panels very undetailed and the proportions made him look like child.

Catwoman: Lonely City

Interesting start, it got me into the story and im curious where this goes.
The way they kill off batman was a bit weak, you dont feel the significancy of it yet.
I think thats the curse of when you build something like this up, you tend to not be able to deliver the emotional punch how the reader expects it.
We will see how they go from here, definitly will read the next issue.

Nightwing

What is there to say, its so incredible strong written and the way the art flows...really enjoy it.
And of course focusing on Barbara and Dick gives it the extra neat flavor.

Nubia & The Amazons

Boy, i was giving this a shot and i was not dissapointed.
Really interesting first issue, will keep my eye on this.

Shazam

Same as before, i really like it and the way it goes.
Its one of those sleeper Series imo, something not many talk about but is really fantastic to me.

Suicide Squad

It gets a bit messy in terms of art, pacing, story etc...but i have become invested in the characters and want to see where things go...so thats a good thing.

Superman Son of Kal-El

All this talk about worrying they wouldnt build up on the whole "Jon is BI" thing...well i can eat my words.
Not only do they do that, they put some more effort into working on Jons character as a whole.
So thats a very good thing.
Finally after all this time of them making a mess with Jon, someone makes an attempt to do anything with him that has some depth.
More of that please.

The Flash

Boy that was a fun issue...and they did a fantastic job at showing Flashs power, why he is underrated imo.
Super fun.

Very neat week this time, even though im a bit dissapointed in the Batman issue.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When it comes to characters like Tim Drake and Jon Kent, i doubt any writers will dare to have them date girls anymore. If they would, they would get the blue-haired twitter crowd screaming about "How dare they remove these LGBT characters" etc. Basicly the part of twitter activists who havent read comics for decades/ever.

The similar type of crowd exist also for people who are against LGBT characters and dont read comics. Cause twitter is a freakshow.

Would this be the "blue-haired twitter crowd" that actually understands what it means to be LGBTQIA+? Why would they be upset with someone who is bisexual, being bisexual exactly?

Your use of the stereotype made it clear by the way.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

You're right. Intolerance is too kind. Comparing being gay/bi/pan to the crime of murder is bigotry. One's sexuality is not choice. Hiding behind your choice of religion does not change that.

And you missed the complete point of that statement and I'll say it one more time this time simplified and then I'm done because this isn't the place for this debate. The point is no man is better than the next man. Regardless of what you do or have done in life we are all the same/equal in God's eye no one's sin is greater than the next persons. The only thing that can save us is the love of Jesus Christ and accepting him as your Lord and savior. Because if you do that even the worst man can make it to heaven once again look at Paul. God's laws and ways has been the same since the beginning of time and will remain that way. There is only one way to heaven it's not through good deeds and works.