The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Charles Xavier]

I'm talking about an old comic here. The killing joke. The puddle at the end symbolic meaning can be too many things. It is hard to say for sure what is meant by it. I wish there was more clarity. It is still a great story imo

 

[Babillygunn]

I know that it is borderline blasphemous to say it, but I don’t really love The Killing Joke. And I say this as a big fan of Alan Moore, but despite his mastery at storytelling, I cannot deny that there does seem to be some legitimacy to the often-levied criticism of misogyny regarding a lot of his work. And The Killing Joke, along with his treatment of Rose Almond in V for Vendetta, and much of the treatment of female characters in Watchmen, really is hard for me to justify.

Amazing writer, but there is definitely some cringe to some of his choices.

 

[Charles Xavier]

I respect that, but I am just focusing on what I like about stuff for the most part.

 

[Mani-Man]

I'm talking about an old comic here. The killing joke. The puddle at the end symbolic meaning can be too many things. It is hard to say for sure what is meant by it. I wish there was more clarity. It is still a great story imo

Has Moore ever talked about this?
I feel its a fan thing where they read too much into something to the point where the discussion about the overall comic, turns often into just the symbolism of these last few panels.

I know that it is borderline blasphemous to say it, but I don’t really love The Killing Joke. And I say this as a big fan of Alan Moore, but despite his mastery at storytelling, I cannot deny that there does seem to be some legitimacy to the often-levied criticism of misogyny regarding a lot of his work. And The Killing Joke, along with his treatment of Rose Almond in V for Vendetta, and much of the treatment of female characters in Watchmen, really is hard for me to justify.

Amazing writer, but there is definitely some cringe to some of his choices.

Biggest and most valid criticism you can give Moore is that too often he makes Womens pain not about the Women.
Killing Joke is a good example but he is not alone guilty of that.
The way Barbaras injury got treated in the killing joke and after, always rubbed many people the wrong way.
Where it was more about what it mentally did to Bruce or Jim and not what it did to Barbara.

 

[Babillygunn]

Biggest and most valid criticism you can give Moore is that too often he makes Womens pain not about the Women.

I think the most glaring example of this is V for Vendetta. Everyone talks about V’s manipulation of Evey as being problematic. But to me, the entire character arc of Rose Almond is so tragic, and V’s manipulation of that character, putting an innocent victim of domestic abuse in position after position of degradation and placing her in a spiral until she eventually becomes his final “rose” to send after his enemies, is so sick and twisted that it makes V irredeemable. It doesn’t help that the last panel that you see Rose Almond in, she is being physically and mentally tortured by the government. That was her fate and she didn’t deserve it. But there is no one in the story who cares or speaks out for her. And it is hard not to attribute the silence to Moore as well. (And it is probably not a coincidence that the film version cuts Rose Almond out of the story completely.)


All that to say, I don’t think I could label Moore himself as misogynist. But so many of his female characters lack any agency at all. And it is glaring.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I'm talking about an old comic here. The killing joke. The puddle at the end symbolic meaning can be too many things. It is hard to say for sure what is meant by it. I wish there was more clarity. It is still a great story imo

The Killing Joke ties as my all-time favourite comic (along with Kingdom Come). I still have my first printing that I bought when it came out. I must have read it a hundred times.

 

[Babillygunn]

The Killing Joke ties as my all-time favourite comic (along with Kingdom Come). I still have my first printing that I bought when it came out. I must have read it a hundred times.

I always thought you were a huge CoIE guy.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I always thought you were a huge CoIE guy.

Oh, I am! It comes in very close behind.

 

[Babillygunn]

I just started reading Wake by Scott Snyder and Sean Murphy.

How did I miss this way back when it came out?
I’m one issue in and loving it. If it turns out to go south I will be disappointed

 

[Gee]

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[CrimsonMist]

New Gods #12. Just as I thought: a total bust. I really didn't like this series. I wonder how much many gears in the narrative shifted once Ram V decided to take a break from monthly comics and how much of this was always going to be what it was. What it excels in character (Orion and Scott) it lacks completely in compelling narrative. It stalls once the survivors of New Genesis land on Earth and just meanders to a rather middling conclusion. If there's a vol. 2, it'll be a digital read long after it concludes. Comics are too expensive.

The Kryptonite Spectrum has taken the place of my favorite Superman story in years. This is the kinda stuff I want Superman to be month in and month out. If you dug Superman: Space Age or All-Star Superman, or just very smart silver age wackiness, this is the book to dive into.

Not sure if anyone picked it up but Batman/The Question/Green Arrow: Arcadia? Best damn book of the month. I am so sold on it that it hurts. Gabriel Hardman has always been a phenomenal artist but his writing has gone up a tick in a major way. Its so well written. While it's easy to dismiss it as a nostalgic romp through Denny O'Neal's Question run and Mike Grell's Green Arrow run, your mistake would be in underestimating just how relevant those books were and continue to be. It manages to capture a true, relevant urban grittiness that hasn't been seen in a lot of modern superhero comics recently and does so in such an authentic and profound way. Check this one out. You won't regret it!

Speaking of regrets, I caved to my regret of dropping Absolute Wonder Woman after issue 7 and proceeded to buy up all remaining issues. I'm re-reading the first arc and am really kicking myself for having dropped it. It's such a magnificent book and miles above what King is doing in the mainline book (which I still happen to like).

That said, Wonder Woman: Historia is getting the Absolute treatment next year and ya'll need to buy the single greatest Wonder Woman comic of the last 30 years (if that) in the best format possible. Such a transcendent book. Right up there with Watchmen for me. And it shall sit right next to my copy of Absolute Watchmen as well!

 

[blueharvest]

 

[BobJM]

Did anyone read The Last Halloween?

It was a fun continuation of that story—makes me want to go reread When in Rome and Dark Victory

 

[CrimsonMist]

All caught up on Absolute Wonder Woman. Flat out excellent story telling. Hayden Sherman deserves all the praise and more as an artist. Between this and Batman: Dark Patterns, he's a new talent to really keep an eye on.

Finishing Absolute Wonder Woman put me in the mood to catch up on the other titles in the line now that several months worth of books are in the can, starting with Batman. This book is still terrible. How the book was pitched (Batman with no money and limited resources) and what the book has turned into (high concept action horror) contrasts so wildly and there's such little solid transitional material within. The Bane origin issue was a meandering mess of a story and the recent Joker issue, brilliant art by Jock be damned, was also simultaneously meandering and repetitive. All of Snyder's worst traits are on display in this book and it's really hard to get past. Conceptually, everything is there. I just really don't like how he pieces everything together.

Gonna jump into Flash and finish up Martian Manhunter before trying Green Lantern again.

 

[blueharvest]

 

[blueharvest]

 

[blueharvest]

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[Babillygunn]

Good heavens…DCKO is the most stupid “event” comic of all time. This is just colossally bad writing.

Shame on this great company putting out such slop.

 

[blueharvest]

Good heavens…DCKO is the most stupid “event” comic of all time. This is just colossally bad writing.

Shame on this great company putting out such slop.

Better or worse than Absolute Power from last year?

 

[Babillygunn]

Better or worse than Absolute Power from last year?

Good question. I’d say worse, simply because Absolute Power centered around Amanda Waller as a villain whereas Darkseid looms in KO. And let’s face it: Darkseid>>>>>Waller.

But they both suck for different reasons. DCKO is like reading a seven year old’s stories that they play out with their action figures.
What if Zatanna fought Harley Quinn? What if Etrigan fought Lex Luthor? What if Cyborg fought Swamp Thing? Who would win?
It’s all quite dumb if you ask me.

 

[blueharvest]

 

[Mani-Man]

Good heavens…DCKO is the most stupid “event” comic of all time. This is just colossally bad writing.

Shame on this great company putting out such slop.

I felt nothing when it was announced and i dont remember many people who were excited for it.
Its a dumb concept and you can tell it was mainly done for these weird VS battle people that love to pit characters against each other and make up who would win etc.

A otherwise boring nothingburger of an event.
As usual, hyped up by DC but delivering nothing of value.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Good question. I’d say worse, simply because Absolute Power centered around Amanda Waller as a villain whereas Darkseid looms in KO. And let’s face it: Darkseid>>>>>Waller.

But they both suck for different reasons. DCKO is like reading a seven year old’s stories that they play out with their action figures.
What if Zatanna fought Harley Quinn? What if Etrigan fought Lex Luthor? What if Cyborg fought Swamp Thing? Who would win?
It’s all quite dumb if you ask me.

How do Zatanna and Harely even fight? Zatanna isn't known as a fist-fighter, and Harley doesn't do magic

 

[Babillygunn]

How do Zatanna and Harely even fight? Zatanna isn't known as a fist-fighter, and Harley doesn't do magic

Spoiler

It is a best of three rounds. Round One Harley takes Zee by surprise and hits her in the larynx and smashes her with a mallet while she couldn’t recite any spells. Then Rounds 2 and 3 went to Zatanna fairly easily after Harley basically trash talks her into being angry enough to kill her.
As she is dying in Round 3, Harley confides to Zee that she knew that she had no chance of winning and she was just having to get Zatanna in a state of mind that she could be cutthroat enough to actually win the tournament and save the world.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Spoiler

It is a best of three rounds. Round One Harley takes Zee by surprise and hits her in the larynx and smashes her with a mallet while she couldn’t recite any spells. Then Rounds 2 and 3 went to Zatanna fairly easily after Harley basically trash talks her into being angry enough to kill her.
As she is dying in Round 3, Harley confides to Zee that she knew that she had no chance of winning and she was just having to get Zatanna in a state of mind that she could be cutthroat enough to actually win the tournament and save the world.

So, Harley saves the world by proxy! Of course!