The Huntsman: Winter's War

[TheVileOne]

Between destroying female-led franchises, underpaying the lead actresses and the current trend for remakes and rebooting every brand they can get their hands on, Hollywood is in an ugly place. Did you know there is movement afoot, and not just afoot, but at full gallop, to release a remake of A New Hope next month? We're in the 21st Century for Christ sake! What happened to originality and equality?

Not sure I believe the last part. Where did that come from?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I love him. But when his Ron Howard flick flops, you won't hear a word. On the other hand Stewart has been in award winning flicks and showing real acting chops and has banked way more money then Hemsworth, as a lead. She is the one gone of course.

I love him as well and it's not his fault that Hollywood is ridiculous. I'm not saying that he should turn down the roles but yes clearly sexism is at play.

I suspect that whale movie is going to flop as well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hollywood is agist more than anything else it's accused of when it comes to women, but Jennifer Lawrence is a long way off her role choices changing.

True. But again, curious about the roles. Mainly because the franchise film roles definitely change. Banking money or not, that doesn't change the men from pursuing them, why wouldn't women?

Twylight? That's like saying Daniel Radcliffe is a leading man actor or that Tobey Maguire is a box office draw. The huge built in fanbase of the source material draws the box office, not the actor these days.

If they recast then they have to dredge all the sleazy stuff up again, the way they have went is to cut out the two problems and cast 2 new female characters in place, I just don't see the big deal.

But Hemsworth is a draw?

Also, who cares if they dredge that crap up again? Woman got laid. Half the problem here is that it is a problem. She wasn't married, still isn't. The other being, they changed it to a male led series. I don't think it is really that complicated. It would be like taking Supergirl on CBS, and next season turning it into Superboy or a Superman prequel.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I love him as well and it's not his fault that Hollywood is ridiculous. I'm not saying that he should turn down the roles but yes clearly sexism is at play.

I suspect that whale movie is going to flop as well.

It isn't on Hemsworth to fix, just like it isn't on Renner, though I feel like he should have never said what he said.

The only way this gets fixed is like at Lucasfilms right now. Diversity in the higher ups. Kennedy is making it happen on her own, while Marvel continues to act like they are "doing their best" as they keep pushing Captain Marvel back.

 

[TheVileOne]

The guy she cheated with is set to direct Ghost in the Shell.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The guy she cheated with is set to direct Ghost in the Shell.

Scarlett's husband should be careful.

By the way, I did not know that. That in and of itself pisses me off. Not because of what happened, but because his aesthetic is crap.

 

[Greens]

The guy she cheated with is set to direct Ghost in the Shell.

He's got his eyes set on Scarlett now, eh? Godspeed.

 

[Hunter Rider]

True. But again, curious about the roles. Mainly because the franchise film roles definitely change. Banking money or not, that doesn't change the men from pursuing them, why wouldn't women?

It depends on the actor/actress, I mean Matt Damon came off Bourne in prime position to name his price for blockbuster roles and basically avoided them all, Lawrence seems similar. Truth is with 2 franchise roles under her belt how many more would she go for? Most only have a couple of signature roles they keep going back to.

But Hemsworth is a draw?

Also, who cares if they dredge that crap up again? Woman got laid. Half the problem here is that it is a problem. She wasn't married, still isn't. The other being, they changed it to a male led series. I don't think it is really that complicated. It would be like taking Supergirl on CBS, and next season turning it into Superboy or a Superman prequel.

I never said he was, I was saying Stewart isn't so making any claims about her as a draw was pointless as she isn't.

She got laid with a married man, that is the issue and not one you want bogging your film down if you don't need it. Clearly the studio felt her and the director were irrelevant and went in a different direction rather than having the sleaze attached to the film via either of them. Would this be an issue if the film was titled The Queen: Winter's War?

 

[Snow Queen]

Scarlett's husband should be careful.

By the way, I did not know that. That in and of itself pisses me off. Not because of what happened, but because his aesthetic is crap.

This just made me go look at the IMDB pages of him and the director of this and...*sigh* really? Neither of them even get one feature under their belt and they just get tossed blockbusters?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It isn't on Hemsworth to fix, just like it isn't on Renner, though I feel like he should have never said what he said.

The only way this gets fixed is like at Lucasfilms right now. Diversity in the higher ups. Kennedy is making it happen on her own, while Marvel continues to act like they are "doing their best" as they keep pushing Captain Marvel back.

I don't like Renner and think that he is a bit of a *****e but I think he had a point. You are right in saying that he probably shouldn't have said anything.

Yes, I love what Kennedy is doing and I'm side-eying the hell out of Marvel.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't like Renner and think that he is a bit of a *****e but I think he had a point. You are right in saying that he probably shouldn't have said anything.

Yes, I love what Kennedy is doing and I'm side-eying the hell out of Marvel.

His joke about Black Widow?

 

[Greens]

oh God, does that need to be dredged up?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It depends on the actor/actress, I mean Matt Damon came off Bourne in prime position to name his price for blockbuster roles and basically avoided them all, Lawrence seems similar. Truth is with 2 franchise roles under her belt how many more would she go for? Most only have a couple of signature roles they keep going back to.

But now Damon is going back. That is what I mean by options. Heck Bond starts with makes in their mid-30s.

I read a lot of interviews with both actors and actresses, and this is a common thing that comes up with actresses. Their amount of roles, the variety and quality. More then a few talk about taking less well paying jobs to take roles they actually want to do. While someone like Depp can hold up production Black Mass because he wants his usual asking price, one he hasn't been worth in 5 years.

I never said he was, I was saying Stewart isn't so making any claims about her as a draw was pointless as she isn't.

She got laid with a married man, that is the issue and not one you want bogging your film down if you don't need it. Clearly the studio felt her and the director were irrelevant and went in a different direction rather than having the sleaze attached to the film via either of them. Would this be an issue if the film was titled The Queen: Winter's War?

But then there is no draw here? Which is fair, but it makes axing the main character and actress more apparent.

The studio dumping her is typical studio logic, which is my problem with the situation. Hollywood being sexist isn't new and this another example. They aren't going to title the movie that because they didn't make her the main character. They made the Hunstman the main character.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

oh God, does that need to be dredged up?

If you don't want to talk about it there is no rule that says you have to talk about. Anytime subjects like this come up, someone has to complain.

 

[Greens]

If you don't want to talk about it there is no rule that says you have to talk about. Anytime subjects like this come up, someone has to complain.

Thanks for the advice?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Thanks for the advice?

Why are you complaining? Maybe it is innocent. But I am getting a little tired of the narrative around this place anytime a discussion of sexism comes up.

 

[Hunter Rider]

But now Damon is going back. That is what I mean by options. Heck Bond starts with makes in their mid-30s.

I read a lot of interviews with both actors and actresses, and this is a common thing that comes up with actresses. Their amount of roles, the variety and quality. More then a few talk about taking less well paying jobs to take roles they actually want to do. While someone like Depp can hold up production Black Mass because he wants his usual asking price, one he hasn't been worth in 5 years.

He's going back because the character is open ended, Lawrence could do a further adventures of Katniss movie down the line I guess, I don't know if the character survives the final movie in this trilogy.

I imagine that has a lot to do with the fact that the industry went from male stars drawing big money to franchises drawing big money, the leverage has never been their for actresses.

But then there is no draw here? Which is fair, but it makes axing the main character and actress more apparent.

The studio dumping her is typical studio logic, which is my problem with the situation. Hollywood being sexist isn't new and this another example. They aren't going to title the movie that because they didn't make her the main character. They made the Hunstman the main character.

That's because the Hustman was the co-lead in the first film which was titled Snow White & The Huntsman. Then Snow White's actress played the role of homewrecker and her and the slimy director got the boot, leaving the logical choice to use the other half of the lead duo going forwards. I think you are creating a sinister scenario here that just isn't the case in a film with 3 female leads and 1 male.

 

[Greens]

Why are you complaining? Maybe it is innocent. But I am getting a little tired of the narrative around this place anytime a discussion of sexism comes up.

About what, the Black Widow situation? Because it was so overblown I could see the fumes from my house.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Why are you complaining? Maybe it is innocent. But I am getting a little tired of the narrative around this place anytime a discussion of sexism comes up.

What narrative is that? As there's more than one going on here. I actually think that Greens is referring to the Renner comment, not the claims that it was sexist to fire Stewart.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I don't get why there is an issue with the male being the lead given it's a prequel about the Huntsman character? The film seems to have 3 lead female characters anyway so it's not like the diversity quota is not being met.

I mentioned how it's good that they got three female roles and that's good and I can give credit to, but that doesn't mean in the bigger picture there aren't flaws to how these things are done and turn out. Even for this movie.

But it's still not solving a much deeply rooted issue embedded within how Hollywood thinks and treats female characters and actresses compared to males. You see those things here.

You're still dealing with the loss of a female lead former film and making it into yet another male led film. A male lead film is all fine and good on its own, except the playing field isn't leveled for us to be just fine with this to happen. There's something very, very wrong with how Hollywood thinks and makes these decisions. Nobody is saying give all the roles to women to fix the problems. People are saying to just make things equal.

I think it really roots in the fact typically better and more roles are usually written for men. We just live in societies where men are just unconsciously thought in your typical roles and no one really questions it because we're used it it and being taught just that. The past movies help too in creating these concepts. That extends into how writers make a police character a man instead of thinking a woman could play that role too. It's a small thing but these things make a big difference in how people see things and how it can help. It's 2015. Women are just as capable as anything but something is stopping them from getting to where men are. It's sure as hell ain't them, because like any reasonable person, they want to work. It comes from the top. These people's attitudes need to change or they need to be fired to make room for people who can actually create equality in the system.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He's going back because the character is open ended, Lawrence is could do a further adventures of Katniss movie down the line I guess, I don't know if the character survives the final movie in this trilogy.

I imagine that has a lot to do with the fact that the industry went from male stars drawing big money to franchises drawing big money, the leverage has never been their for actresses.

So isn't that the point? I'd also point out that the males who lead franchises get the "chance" to become stars outside of their franchises, even in the franchise-led world. A perfect example is Hemsworth.

That's because the Hustman was the co-lead in the first film which was titled Snow White & The Huntsman. Then Snow White's actress played the role of homewrecker and her and the slimy director got the boot, leaving the logical choice to use the other half of the lead duo going forwards. I think you are creating a sinister scenario here that just isn't the case in a film with 3 female leads and 1 male.

But they went with the typical option. Again, they could have simply recast. Do we think the subject won't come up now that they got rid of her? Does it not draw more attention?

Also, the first film added the Huntsman to differentiate it from other Snow White stories. It was still Snow White's story. Adding 3 female characters doesn't change that the male is the lead and main character. Again, numbers do not change this.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I mentioned how it's good that they got three female roles and that's good and I can give credit to, but that doesn't mean in the bigger picture there aren't flaws to how these things are done and turn out. Even for this movie.

But it's still not solving a much deeply rooted issue embedded within how Hollywood thinks and treats female characters and actresses compared to males. You see those things here.

You're still dealing with the loss of a female lead former film and making it into yet another male led film. A male lead film is all fine and good on its own, except the playing field isn't leveled for us to be just fine with this to happen. There's something very, very wrong with how Hollywood thinks and makes these decisions. Nobody is saying give all the roles to women to fix the problems. People are saying to just make things equal.

I think it really roots in the fact typically better and more roles are usually written for men. We just live in societies where men are just consciously thought in your typical roles and no one really questions it because we're used it it and being taught just that. The past movies help too in creating these concepts. That extends into how writers make a police character a man instead of thinking a woman could play that role too. It's a small thing but these things make a big difference in how people see things and how it can help. It's 2015.

It is true that there are more roles written for men as over the decades male stars have been the primary draw in movies, nowadays the franchise draws anyway so it becomes a different issue, as the star becomes less and less important.

The issue I find is that EVERY situation has to be sexist or racist or some other conspiracy, when sometimes it is a simple and logical business choice from a studio looking to protect it's investment best it can.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

About what, the Black Widow situation? Because it was so overblown I could see the fumes from my house.

I did not realize you were speaking on a specific subject, so I apologize for misreading your point.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What narrative is that? As there's more than one going on here. I actually think that Greens is referring to the Renner comment, not the claims that it was sexist to fire Stewart.

I am just getting sick of Napoleon, Dude Stannis and others quite like going around calling anyone talking about these subjects SJW. They don't have to even engage, but they do anyways and boil everything down to that.

 

[Hunter Rider]

So isn't that the point? I'd also point out that the males who lead franchises get the "chance" to become stars outside of their franchises, even in the franchise-led world. A perfect example is Hemsworth.

What point? You can't go back and change things now, actors as stars are becoming less and less of a factor, the material is the hook, look at the biggest earning films of all time and then count how many hits any actor or actress in them has had outside of that franchise. I imagine Leo is the only one with serious bank made of his name on the marquee.

But they went with the typical option. Again, they could have simply recast. Do we think the subject won't come up now that they got rid of her? Does it not draw more attention?

Also, the first film added the Huntsman to differentiate it from other Snow White stories. It was still Snow White's story. Adding 3 female characters doesn't change that the male is the lead and main character. Again, numbers do not change this.

Why recast when it made just as much sense to switch the title and avoid Snow White altogether.

I'm gonna leave it there man as I can feel my irritation rising. I guess we'll see when the film is actually viewed whether the title name is actually the lead, or if it is more like Fury Road where the film was at best a co-lead but Furiosa was the one with a story and character driven arc, the lifeblood of the film, Max was more the simple brand name.