The "I am SO SICK of all this talk about recasts/reboots/revamps/re-whatever!" thread

[roach]

yeah more of less

 

[Chris Wallace]

I was explaining the whole reboot concept to my brother the other day, trying to make him understand that the upcoming Spidey film won't tie into the previous series, & trying to convince him that TIH was not a sequel to Hulk 2003. I think both our heads were hurting by the end of that conversation.

 

[terry78]

People don't really get it. Pretty much everyone that's not all deep into it just assumes the new Star Trek is a remake of the original series, which it technically is. The time travel/alternate universe **** takes too long to explain.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I can't seem to go to any general board without seeing a dozen reboot threads. It's a damn epidemic!

Blame Nolan.

 

[zeptron]

Just because Batman Begins was an outstanding (necessary) reboot, Hollywood is trying to beat a dead cow thinking that they're doing the same good to every franchise. I'm fine with new visions and takes on old stories (even though I prefer originality), but most of the time they're never necessary.

 

[terry78]

When somebody does something different and it works, you can expect imitations.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Just because Batman Begins was an outstanding (necessary) reboot, Hollywood is trying to beat a dead cow thinking that they're doing the same good to every franchise. I'm fine with new visions and takes on old stories (even though I prefer originality), but most of the time they're never necessary.

That's exactly my point about Nolan. Led Zeppelin is my favorite rock band, but they influenced a lot of garbage thanks to the music industry trying to turn Zeppelin's sound into some kind of formula. First it was the likes of Def Leppard and Journey. Then came the full-blown hair metal phase with the likes of Whitesnake.

Seems like the entertainment industries love to get one great idea, turn it into some formula, and then run it straight into the ground. It's like the slasher subgenre in the horror movie industry. The original Halloween kicks butt and has hardly any blood, yet there's a ton of crappy rip-offs that have come after and the only thing they've done is add more blood and a higher body count. It got to the point that they gave up on this subgenre and just went for torture porn with the likes of Saw and Hostel. The idea isn't so much suspense through stalking, it's to gross out the audience with as much gore as possible.

 

[weezerspider]

That's exactly my point about Nolan. Led Zeppelin is my favorite rock band, but they influenced a lot of garbage thanks to the music industry trying to turn Zeppelin's sound into some kind of formula. First it was the likes of Def Leppard and Journey. Then came the full-blown hair metal phase with the likes of Whitesnake.

Seems like the entertainment industries love to get one great idea, turn it into some formula, and then run it straight into the ground. It's like the slasher subgenre in the horror movie industry. The original Halloween kicks butt and has hardly any blood, yet there's a ton of crappy rip-offs that have come after and the only thing they've done is add more blood and a higher body count. It got to the point that they gave up on this subgenre and just went for torture porn with the likes of Saw and Hostel. The idea isn't so much suspense through stalking, it's to gross out the audience with as much gore as possible.

Agree with you on the Zeppelin comment and slasher comment. I can't even watch "horror" movies now days because all it is is gore. "Shutter Island" is like a Godsend. I don't know if it counts as horror, but a suspenseful "horrish" movie with substance sounds GREAT to me.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Blame Nolan.

I do, though not as much as I do Schumacher, for killing a franchise and making fanboys (and studios) terrified of going past 3.
I'm not knocking "Batman Begins" OR TDK, but what's good for one IS NOT ALWAYS good for all, and that's what bothers me. Could you imagine if the comic industry did that? If a story arc went bad they just re-start the title from the beginning? It'd be chaos.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I do, though not as much as I do Schumacher, for killing a franchise and making fanboys (and studios) terrified of going past 3.
I'm not knocking "Batman Begins" OR TDK, but what's good for one IS NOT ALWAYS good for all, and that's what bothers me. Could you imagine if the comic industry did that? If a story arc went bad they just re-start the title from the beginning? It'd be chaos.

I was just looking at the Spidey board and it's sad how many of the threads are focused on seriousness, etc. If the Spidey franchise was the Titanic, then Batman Begins was the iceberg. The producers were plenty arrogant after the first two movies, but then little old serious Nolan shows up with BB. Producers panicked and decided to throw the kitchen sink (Venom) at the problem, but Raimi torpedoed it by making Venom campy. Ultimately it was one big clusterf**k. The sad thing is it was incredibly successful from a financial standpoint.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I have been "trippin'" for a while on the fact that Venom was simultaneously the movie's biggest draw AND its downfall.

 

[terry78]

I do, though not as much as I do Schumacher, for killing a franchise and making fanboys (and studios) terrified of going past 3.
I'm not knocking "Batman Begins" OR TDK, but what's good for one IS NOT ALWAYS good for all, and that's what bothers me. Could you imagine if the comic industry did that? If a story arc went bad they just re-start the title from the beginning? It'd be chaos.

Was that sarcasm?

 

[Chris Wallace]

There's been some stupid retconning, sure. But I'm talking about total overhaul, a la "Spider-Man Chapter One". What if they did something like that every time a story arc wasn't well-received?

 

[Dr.Dude]

Yeah, it'd be absolutely ridiculous. Comic characters have suffered through many worse plots than the ones in the movies and they still don't reboot every few story arcs.

I mean, honestly, while at this point I'm not even interested in seeing this Spidey reboot, let's just say that, against all odds, it's completely amazing. Let's say it does everything right, sets up sequels, tells a great story. The problem is, then, how are we supposed to get emotionally involved in the characters, now that Sony has gone so far as to demonstrate that they have no problem tearing it all down and starting from scratch anytime they feel like it?

I haven't really looked at the Spider-Man boards in while, just because the entire business is so off-putting. Last time I glanced over there, though, I noticed people doing their various plot outlines of how the next 3-6 movies could go. What makes anyone so sure we're even going to get that far? Sure, maybe this new Spidey series will go 2, hell, maybe 3 movies but after that, they're just going to reset it like they did the last series.

It worked for Batman. I could potentially see it working for Superman, though that wouldn't be my preference. However, I don't think there's any other character other than those two that this reboot approach would work for.

 

[spider-neil]

I have been "trippin'" for a while on the fact that Venom was simultaneously the movie's biggest draw AND its downfall.

people would have watched SM3 regardless. basically venom ***** up SM3 because sony thought the fans would flock to SM3 because of venom when the truth is fans would flock to see SM even if the main villian was the hypno hustler.

 

[roach]

If a story arc went bad they just re-start the title from the beginning? It'd be chaos.

dont the do that though...once a creator leaves a book...look how fast they contradicted Morrison's New X-men???

 

[redfirebird2008]

I do, though not as much as I do Schumacher, for killing a franchise and making fanboys (and studios) terrified of going past 3.
I'm not knocking "Batman Begins" OR TDK, but what's good for one IS NOT ALWAYS good for all, and that's what bothers me. Could you imagine if the comic industry did that? If a story arc went bad they just re-start the title from the beginning? It'd be chaos.

And you know the thing about chaos? It's fair.

Spoiler

Sorry, had to do it. You walked right into it.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yeah, it'd be absolutely ridiculous. Comic characters have suffered through many worse plots than the ones in the movies and they still don't reboot every few story arcs.

I mean, honestly, while at this point I'm not even interested in seeing this Spidey reboot, let's just say that, against all odds, it's completely amazing. Let's say it does everything right, sets up sequels, tells a great story. The problem is, then, how are we supposed to get emotionally involved in the characters, now that Sony has gone so far as to demonstrate that they have no problem tearing it all down and starting from scratch anytime they feel like it?

I haven't really looked at the Spider-Man boards in while, just because the entire business is so off-putting. Last time I glanced over there, though, I noticed people doing their various plot outlines of how the next 3-6 movies could go. What makes anyone so sure we're even going to get that far? Sure, maybe this new Spidey series will go 2, hell, maybe 3 movies but after that, they're just going to reset it like they did the last series.

It worked for Batman. I could potentially see it working for Superman, though that wouldn't be my preference. However, I don't think there's any other character other than those two that this reboot approach would work for.

Amen.

 

[roach]

I am not looking forward to the Spidey-reboot either...for the exact same reason.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Yeah, it'd be absolutely ridiculous. Comic characters have suffered through many worse plots than the ones in the movies and they still don't reboot every few story arcs.

But they do retcon.

I dont want to make excuses for Spiderman, because its a dumb idea, but I'll make excuses for rebooting in general. When used properly it can be very effective.

 

[Chris Wallace]

What's using "properly"?

 

[roach]

I've yet to see a proper reboot

 

[cerealkiller182]

What's using "properly"?

The opposite of rebooting a still current, relevant, marketable, and most likely profitable film series whos director and lead actor were pretty much willing to return.

I've yet to see a proper reboot

I consider Nolan's Batman to be a proper remake. Well-made (albeit overly worshipped) reboot. Superman was also had prime timing, but completely misguided direction.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The opposite of rebooting a still current, relevant, marketable, and most likely profitable film series whos director and lead actor were pretty much willing to return.

Can't argue with that.

I consider Nolan's Batman to be a proper remake. Well-made (albeit overly worshipped) reboot. Superman was also had prime timing, but completely misguided direction.

Singer seemingly couldn't decide whether to make a reboot or a sequel, & he apparently tried to reboot the previous series from the middle, which made no sense.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Singer seemingly couldn't decide whether to make a reboot or a sequel, & he apparently tried to reboot the previous series from the middle, which made no sense.

And the problem with making a sequel is the Donner Superman isnt relevant anymore except for fanboys, half of which I would say moved on to Timm's version and the other half respect it for its "classic"-ity. The acting was a little old-fashioned, there was a lot of stage-inspired showmanship. It came out at the same time that there was a lot of gritty crime flicks that made way for more visceral performances that evolved to todays standards. I am confident Kevin Spacey would make an amazing Lex Luthor, but because he was mimicing the acting style of the time, it came off hammy by todays standards.

Taking into account what I said about reboots:

Do: (not musts but coulds)
1) Superman (they are going to have to round out their new regimine with him)
2) Daredevil
3) Any of the pulpy heroes (Phantom, Shadow, etc)
4) Deadpool (I will admit this one is motivated by fanboy selfishness, but it is not a usual reboot either)

Donts:
Pretty much anything still marketable like Spiderman. Frankly, Spiderman could totally work on the James Bond principal. Recast and progress. Rosemary Harris, JK Simmons, Dylan Baker, Im pretty sure these people would still have contracts without a reboot.

Let rest: (franchises that need to take a break)
Punisher
Fantatic Four